OK I am in the midst of re-watching TDKR animated films and re-reading parts out of the book and... I'm kind of at a loss to who Miller was intending to identify with politically.
He is obviously very against the Reagan Administration and apparent American Imperialism (aka the need in keeping Communism from ruling to world).
Which is obviously a very anti conservative point of view.
But at the same time he demonizes liberal social justice fucks who endlessly defend murderers, rapist, even child killers long before they defend those that selflessly defend the innocent from them.
Which is a conservative or rational point of view.
He also shows the hippy generation to be lazy parents.
Thoughts?
>tfw your post says more about your own constructed binaries
>tfw there are no dualities, just similarities
>tfw it never ends
>you have to be for one or the other, you can't be against both
Anon, please.
>>80969026
>Which is a conservative or rational point of view.
No is not Your problem is that you are thinking in the dumb ass american limits.
Soviet russia was CONSERVATIVE, Cuba is Conservative. Left and Liberal are not synonyms, right and conservative aren't either.
The story is anti-establishment, and batman position is both Anarkist and Fascist.
Superman is the good guy of the story and yet he is wrong too. Not all authors use the POV character as a proxy for their ideas, and not all authors reflect what they think with their work.
Reagan, Pinochet and Tatcher are the definition of Neo-liberals. If anything DKR shits on Bleeding heart hippies and Statists.
Pic related. Pretty shitty on the Euro part, but is right about the murrikan side. Obama is way more far right than Hitler.
>>80969950
>and batman position is both Anarkist and Fascist
No the Mutants are anarkist sadist, Batman taking back the city from them and giving normal folks the imperative to stand up and defend themselves is absolutely not anarky.
And it's not fascist ether, he never harms anyone he is not shown to personally see himself commiting crimes.
>>80971184
>he never harms anyone he is not shown to personally see himself commiting crimes.
The fact that you think fascism means harming people says that your opinion is shit.
>>80969026
I always thought the point was that while the whole city was busy arguing the merits of Batman's existence, he was out there just getting shit done. Batman isn't left or right: he's Batman. Hence the whole, "he's too big", mentality Yendel adopted from Gordon at the end.
OP is too dumb to understand the complexities of political thought, so the short answer is that Miller was a paleoconservative. The sort of conservative for conservative domestic values, but against neoconservative militarism and interventionism.
>>80971924
That's the only reason it is frowned upon.
>>80972407
Violence and harming people have literally no relationship with fascism, nazism, Communism, not even with colonialism.
>>80969026
>who Miller was intending to identify with politically.
That's not the point of it
It's not about a political message, it's about how this Batman would clash against the then-current politics of America. Both sides of the political spectrum are parodied, it's not an agenda to express some particular point of view. It's just an observation of how people like Batman would function in a real-world scenario, similar to what Moore did with Watchmen.
Besides, everyone knows Frank Miller is a conservative nutjob
>>80972474
>Violence and harming people have literally no relationship with fascism, nazism, Communism, not even with colonialism.
Violence is the means by which all of those systems are enforced. There is a very direct relationship. Without violence, communism and fascism could not exist.
>>80972627
Hey, we're all blue-pilled idiots here, Anon!
>>80972115
>>80972534
Correctamundo.
>>80972627
>Without violence, communism and fascism could not exist.
I know americans don't have philosophy in middle and high school and are adoctrinated by 50's tier propaganda, but you can't say something that ignorant.
>>80972534
He's not conservative
>>80972757
The Nazis didn't ask the Jews to peacefully get in those trains. The Jews didn't willingly agree to it. Gas chambers don't seem too peaceful either.
All governments use violence to force their politics. If you don't believe me, try overthrowing one and see if you don't get shot
>>80972757
Theoretically a communist society could come about without the use of violence - though not according to Marxist philosophy, because the dictatorship of the proletariat that precedes the communist society is created and enforced through violence.
All states, whether capitalist or socialist, are inherently violent. Statism is inherently violent.
>>80969026
how is wanting to stop the spread of communism imperialist? america's been antiimperialist as fuck from its inception, and opposes empires of all kinds.
>>80973507
>america's been antiimperialist as fuck from its inception, and opposes empires of all kinds.
Well except for their own
it's not wrong when America does it
>>80973507
Except for Saudi empire and their brand of Islam.
>>80972627
Violence is the means by which all systems are enforced
Read your Leviathan, son
>>80969026
>He is obviously very against the Reagan Administration and apparent American Imperialism (aka the need in keeping Communism from ruling to world)
It felt to me like he was against the idea of the government having too much control. The government has Superman to carry out their bidding, which is a terrifying idea and part of the reason this story was so memorable.
I don't think he was against containment of Communism at all, especially considering that in his story the Communists actively tried to nuke America. I thought the reason for the whole nuke part was to make Superman (and the government, I suppose) more sympathetic, as they were clearly the villains. Superman had just saved the country, but he was still the "bad guy" because, under orders from his superiors, he was trying to stomp out the movement Batman had begun.
Frank Miller is pretty clearly far right leaning, I mean the guy wrote Holy Terror.
Miller was spot on man. He hated the polarizing aspects of both sides. Thats what made it so great. He saw the irrational fear of McCarthy conservatives and the retarded/lazy/uneducated aspect of 80s liberals. Miller was really grounded for his time but sadly went off the deep end
>>80973973
Holy Terror is satire. It's just not very good.
>>80969950
>Anarchist
>Far-right
Just don't
>>80974018
I always took it as a jab at Extremist Islam in the vein of WWII propaganda comics aimed at the Japanese
Even the title is silly, it's not as simple as a religious remark it's a reference to the way Robin would speak in the Adam West Batman show " Holy terror Batman!"
His stuff reminds me a lot of Libertarianism. I laugh whenever I post or write that, because Libertarian is just what you call a rich, white anarchist who wants to do whatever shit they want without being called on it, but want laws in place to keep people from calling them on their bullshit at all times.
>>80969026
Why do American politics is always only 2 options?
It's like if you side with one of the 2 parties then you have to suddenly agree on a checklist of things, if you side with the other then you have to agree on the opposite of everything.
Are Americans too retarded to have more than 2 choices?
>>80974449
The media puts in into people's heads that they have to elect a Democrat or Republican and that nobody else even stands a chance, because they media is run by the same fucking people who make campaign contributions to Democrats and Republicans. And people will believe anything their TV tells them. I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone go "Well they said it on the news, so it must be true!"
If the TV told them to vote for Hitler, Hitler would win
>>80974596
I am LEGITIMATELY FRIGHTENED at the thought of Trump with his finger on the "nuclear trigger"...I can see a total Deadzone scenario...where's Johnny Smith when you need him?!
It's like this whole identity politics thing that's sweeping academia...now, I'm left wing as fuck but when "the left" become the thought police and grow into important governmental roles will we all be too distracted by (enforced) using of correct terminology/being "on the right side of history" etc. to tackle THE REAL ISSUES WHICH SEEK TO DIVIDE AND CONQUER US, whilst we're fighting over personal pronouns?
>>80974969
His entire party ( except for the people kissing ass hoping for cabinet positions) is standing against him. They'll try as hard as they can to deny him the nomination at the convention
They also hate Ted Cruz, so it will be interesting to see who ends up coming out of the convention
>>80975090
Yeah beeen keeping tabs but still scared frankly, anon...godspeed...
>>80972820
gas chambers =/= fascism
>>80972232
Isn't the other way around?
Misogyny aside, he seems more socially inclined, but he fiercely worships the military and outrightly calls for fascism.
>>80972808
>>80969026
Miller is mostly Libertarian, I believe. He is anti big government of any kind, conservative or liberal, and is inherently fearful for the potential of corruption or abuse by bodies like the police or military. At the same time, he is VERY anti-islam and pro any kind of intervention that helps expunge them from the world, along with being anti-feminist.
>>80974306
>I always took it as a jab at Extremist Islam in the vein of WWII propaganda comics aimed at the Japanese
That's how Miller always pitched it. And then he took way too long after 9/11 to finish it and the patriotic ardor had died down.
>>80973902
They would love North Korea if they had Oil to sell
