Alright /co/ now you LITERALLY have no excuse to not be working on your own animated series
LITERALLY NO EXCUSE
>>80924442
But I'm shit
>Implying sloth isn't the greatest excuse.
>>80924452
You won't get any better if you don't even try
>>80924442
Alright. You got a link to download and try it?
I'm a belligerent newfag and have no idea what this program is. Enlighten me.
I guess I should go ahead and get the obligatory "tools do not make the man and are quite useless without the skills to use them" out of the way.
>>80924538
Well you probably shouldn't be starting with in-house software designed to streamline the animation process by solving problems specific to professional animators then.
Does this mean Flash is dead? How easy is it to work with?
>>80924595
Not until next week
>>80924624
The fact that it's used by Ghibli is not the point, the point is that this is going to be completely free and open source and should help give rise to more indie studios
Do you know how expensive Toon Boom is?
I'm assuming nobody's too familiar with this program, I don't think I've heard of it in any amateur/internet animation threads.
It'd be nice if /co/ could organize a few threads when this is made free, so that anons can sit down, experiment, ask questions, post results and try and figure out the program together.That would require /co/ to do something other than shitpost about tumblr and waifus for longer than 5 minutes butI think that would be really useful
>>80924595
>beginning march 26
>>80924442
I have no artistic talent. That's my excuse.
>>80925468
Every resource you could need to get started is online
>>80924724
Flash was dead the moment ToonBoom appeared.
Hell screw it - Flash was dead the moment Adobe bought it from Macromedia.
>>80924724
Does it mean all the shows using Flash now will either retire or switch to Toonz?
>>80925522
No like... I can't draw. At all. I can't even draw stick figures. That's not an exaggeration.
>>80925403
I think /ic/'s animation thread would be a better place
>>80925564
Try and post results
>>80924452
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1H92b_uLdU
>>80925564
With that kind of attitude you'll never get better and it's clear you have no real ambition TO get better.
"Talent" is a myth, an excuse people give themselves to not try to improve themselves
>>80925564
drawabox.com you have NO excuse
>>80924442
I have an excuse: I don't care.
There's no point in trying to make a cartoon if you know a bunch of whiny nerds are just going to ramble on forever about how it's shit.
>>80924538
There's no point in trying if you know you're going to fail.
>>80925639
"Hard work" is a myth, an excuse people with talent give themselves to make them feel better about being born.
>>80924598
While someone is at it, would this tool be good for making stop-motion animation, or is it only suited for 2D animation?
>>80925686
Failure is not the end of the world
failure is experience, failure is part of the process
If you get down on yourself before you even try, you're only hurting yourself
>>80924442
Sounds cool but I don't have the money to upgrade my pc for something like this
Also I have no idea how this program works so starting from scratch is going to take awhile
I had no idea Studio Ghibli and Futurama used the same software. Futurama definitely looks a lot...cheaper.
>>80925760
Everyone is going to have to learn this program, there's no escaping that. Unless they happened to work at Ghibli, March 26th will be the first time we've even seen it.
>>80925811
the difference being one is TV animation working with TV animation budgets and the other is literally the most prolific Japanese animation studio working on full-length theatrical movies
I looked on the site and couldn't find an thing involving price.
My lappy is crappy and I'm currently saving up to get out of my mom's house so I can't afford a new computer.
>>80925737
Failure is an inevitability. You ARE going to fuck up, so there's no point in trying in the first place.
And seriously, where do you think you are? Even if you do make a cartoon, most people will hate it because we live in an era of post-modernism where criticism has become so cynical, that even the tiniest flaw in anything equates to the whole being irredeemable garbage. So yeah, fuck you and your fake motivational speeches and try actually paying attention to reality for once.
>>80925686
>There's no point in trying if you know you're going to fail.
That kind of self-defeating loser talk is exactly why you're a failure
>>80925879
it wasnt really publicly available
>>80924442
Yes I do. I'm shit at everything that would be good for an animated series, and I also have no interest in making one.
>>80925654
I can't figure this site out. Where do I practice on it?
>>80925856
True but I still don't know the specs required
>>80924442
I don't know how to draw.
>>80924442
Sure I do: I'm a terrible, terrible artist.
>>80925897
>Failure is an inevitability. You ARE going to fuck up
which is exactly why you have to keep on trucking despite that.You're going to fail regardless, so the best you can do is to learn from your failures. When you don't even bother trying, you aren't even granting yourself the opportunity to learn
I didn't get to where I am today by giving up before I even started because "b-but what if I fail?"
I think it will be worth a shot to download just to dick around with, even if it ultimately amounts to nothing.
May need to get an external hard drive if you want to take it seriously because animations probably do a number on your memory, and my computer is pretty old at this point.
>>80925639
>you'll never get better
Like I didn't already know that...
>>80925968
click the big button that says LESSON 1
>>80925911
No, it's why I've managed to avoid crippling disappointment and haven't killed myself yet.
>>80926046
>I didn't get to where I am today
Where you are today is posting on 4chan.
>>80925897
>Failure is an inevitability. You ARE going to fuck up, so there's no point in trying in the first place.
Congratulations, this is the single most stupid, ass-backwards thing I have ever read on the Internet. I feel like you deserve an award, or that you deserve to be imprisoned in complete isolation for the rest of your life to prevent your stupidity from transferring to others. You have just accomplished something profoundly horrifying in its implications and possible ramifications: you have made some else dumber for having read something you've written. Congratulations.
>>80925686
why the fuck are you posting here, then? for attention?
>>80926046
>learn from your failures
Would you believe if I told not every can do even that?
>>80925705
I think stop motion animation can only be hand made
>>80926094
Read the entire post instead of singling out the one part that facilitates your pity party
UNLESS you try, you aren't going to get better.
>>80926129
The sites I post on don't define me
>>80926156
>imprisoned in complete isolation for the rest of your life
I'd like that.
>>80926107
Yeah, no shit. I did. Went to the lesson. Saw the instructions and lesson, links to reddit and other sites, links to a video, pictures and examples, but no place to actually draw or input anything. I even clicked exercises and challenges but more the same. Where on this site do I actually draw and practice? I'm sure just reading won't be enough and need to actually practice.
I wonder why /co/ never achieved anything...
>>80926156
Okay then, how is it wrong? Please, do explain.
>>80926157
>OP says people don't got a excuse
>anons says they do
>OMG LIKE SHUDDUP UR TRIGGERRIN MEH
Sorry we can't all be optimism and sunshine, fám.
>>80925811
>>80925856
I don't know what kind of things the software does, but in Ghibli's case they would almost certainly use it only for things that occur after the animation has already been drawn. Ghibli, like most anime studios, does their animation by hand and then scans it.
And it's not software that produces good animation, it's firstly skill and secondly time and money. This was made and self-published in the early 80s by a small group of amateur and maybe semi-pro animators:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nkc4eBCy3Sk#t=2m45s
You also don't need the kind of time and money Ghibli has to produce animation of similar quality:
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/8714/
>>80926220
>Where on this site do I actually draw and practice
are you really this dense
grab a pencil and a piece of paper or whatever you use to draw
>>80926224
Yeah I'm starting to regret making this thread
>>80926226
you get better by trying after making a mistake
Why should we try to walk, we can't walk at first, we just fall down.
>>80925737
Some times I come acros posts that make me really wish I could meet the person behind them and talk to them, I feel like some anons could manage to get me motivated to actually do something with my life.
>>80926226
History will readily show that failures in a given field do not outright prevent success, but have, in fact, always been a necessary step In achieving a given goal.
>>80926220
Oh shit you're right
Man, too bad theres no way to draw on some sort of flattened paper fibers with some sort of instrument
>>80926196
Anon, I'm a 26yo still stuck in college; I have no job, no money, no skills, no contacts, no goals, no gf or friends and is living with his parents.
I am not getting better. Ever.
>>80924442
>examples shown are from the worst studio ghibli movie and the worst futurama season.
it's like harry pottery.
>>80926081
Couldn't just delete a bunch of old files and such? Or is that not how that works? I'm just asking because I wanna make some animations once this program is available.
>>80926273
So just open up ms paint and draw things there while looking back and forth between windows? Does this site have a way to evaluate progress other than upload it to reddit?
>>80926341
NIGGA JUST USE PAPER
You shouldn't even touch a pen to a tablet until you have the fundamentals down
is this GNU accepted?
>>80926289
>you get better by trying after making a mistake
No you don't. You only make the problem worse by poking at it until something breaks.
>>80926307
And history will also readily show that successes in a given field more often than not amount to jack shit in terms of concrete accomplishment.
>>80926370
This is a computer software program. What's the point of getting the free software if I have to go buy a scanner? Wouldn't the program be better if I could just make the drawings and everything directly in the program?
Even if you've no interest in animating yourself, it's still good news that the technology is becoming more accessible.
Programs don't make the animator, but more people will be likely to try and learn animation if they don't have to worry about shelling out hundreds of dollars for programs they can't be sure if they'll ever be good at.
If you open it up to a wider audience, you're more likely to catch someone with talent, and more talented animators are good for industry and audience.
>>80926323
So you're just going to get down on yourself for the next 74 years?
Maya and 3dsMAX for free when?
>mfw the maker of both of these industry standard 3d CGI programs recently switched over to a subscription model of payment, meaning you can't buy the software even if you wanted to (which went for $4000+ last time I checked. No I didn't add an extra zero by accident) instead you have to rent it from them for $299 a month for the rest of your life or else it gets wiped from your hard drive.
>>80926445
ANON'S GONNA LIVE TO 100?!
>>80926335
Even if you think TWR had a bad story, that doesn't have anything to do with its animation quality.
>>80926418
If you want to draw digitally you need a tablet and that's more expensive than a scanner. Or yeah you could draw with a mouse but the results are not going to be pretty.
>>80926418
You shouldn't buy a car until you can drive
and ghilbli scans in their drawings and then puts it in the program, which is very common. Pure digital is not the norm
If you can't draw then learn to draw traditionally and THEN draw in a program. 99% of sucessful artists will tell you to do this
>>80926418
If you're still learning how to draw, you shouldn't be animating
Learn your fundamentals first and come back in 6 months
pic related is how I and anybody else who has long ago accepted their complete ineptitude concerning drawing feels about tutorials.
If you have both the talent to "see the shapes of the world" - or however artists call it - along with the mettle to overcome failure, good for you. Go ahead and become rich. Or conquer the world. Whatever. Just leave the pathetic rest of us marinating in the warmth of our own fears and shortcomings. It'll be best for both parties.
>>80926445
No, I'm gonna get down on myself for the next 4 years. Then I'm putting a bullet in my head.
>>80926480
maya for indie is much cheaper, Maya LT is $30 a month and its all you really need
Subscription programs are still ass, but its not as expensive as you make it for a hobbist
Or use blender or pirate. Who the fuck cares if you arent selling your work?
>>80926241
Keep on drinking that piss and vinegar then.
>wanting to be small cog in big machine and have pretty much no influence in series
No thanks, i stick with my comics
>>80926226
did you fail at typing that comment?
failure is just bias
of course you're going to feel like a failur if you think you're a failure
take a deeper look at yourself
you're alive
you communicate to people in ways some others can't, hell there's a lot of shit that only you are able to do in your current position, but its not to say that somebody else is shitty, its to make you remember that only you have taken the steps to become you and no one else and it doesn't matter if you haven't notice but your sole existence changes life everyday, good or bad don't matter, what matter's is that you acknowledge that your existence defines others, do whatever the fuck you want and be happy with it anon
just be the greatest you possible, its not hard at all
>>80926408
https://youtu.be/LQCU36pkH7c
Here. Read this, then take a serious moral inventory of yourself.
http://www.onlinecollege.org/2010/02/16/50-famously-successful-people-who-failed-at-first/
ITT: people who don't believe art is 90% patience and people who don't understand self-defeatism
>>80925705
You could technically make stop motion by ingesting photographs of a scene as it progresses, but you're really just adding extra steps at that point.
>Oh no I can't do what I want for a hobby because I might fail!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw2qEUwFbGM
>>80926552
>Who the fuck cares if you arent selling your work?
Wait, you're telling me that even with these cheaper options you can't sell your work? What the fuck is the point of "Maya LT" then? Paying $30 buckaroos a month for the privilege of licking Autodesk's asshole?
>>80926633
>hobby
My hobby is shitposting on 4chan.
>>80925705
With a stop motion program you want one that you can see alive feed of your camera and the ability to flip through images to get a sense of motion. This probably doesn't have that
Dragon frame is the industry standard and is pretty good, but there is good free alternatives since you don't need bells and whistles to just take pictures and flip through them.
>>80926647
That part was for the pirating part
As far as I know, you can't sell anything if you haven't legally bought the product
>>80926640
Aaaand I even managed to mess up the quote. No idea where that O at the start came from.
Well, well.
What can we learn from this?
>>80926647
Read it again
That applies to pirating, LT has most all the things that normal maya will give you
>>80926705
you CAN but if you do anything large scale you risk legal action
>>80924452
practice every day, even if just a quick sketch, dont break the chain
What does this software actually do?
It's probably something to tackle studio-scale stuff like task planning, co-ordination, resource management, document management, versioning, accounting, critical-path analysis and shit that won't help somebody on /co/ make an animation.
>>80926592
>http://www.onlinecollege.org/2010/02/16/50-famously-successful-people-who-failed-at-first/
Is this supposed to impress me? Because it doesn't. That's only a small fraction out of trillions of people who have ever existed. The odds are still impossible.
>>80926588
>just be the greatest you possible, its not hard at all
The greatest me possible only exists in an alternate universe, and they've more than likely already done the smart thing and killed themselves. Seriously, your attempts at motivational speaking are fucking gag-worthy.
>>80926640
Wow I usually don't like them but I liked that song
>>80926705
>>80926727
How would they know though? I know you can sell 3d models you make online on certain websites. Does it watermark your shit with a "PIRATED VERSION" sign or something?
>>80926855
if you open up the file in a text editor you can see the licence information
>>80926501
it also had a really bad animation quality, specially the "dream" sequences, of course people defend it as "it was intentional cuz dream", but yeah no, the wind rises was the worst ghibli movie in every aspect.
>>80926891
What exactly has made you believe that you aren't allowed to dislike only a particular thing about a work? You didn't like the story, so now you feel obligated to lie that the animation was bad too.
>>80926190
>>80926609
>>80926680
One thing I was hoping to do is add some animated effects, and I wasn't sure if this program could help with that.
Oh, and >>80926680 could you give me a good alternative? The camera I have right now isn't a DSLR if that helps narrow it down.
>>80926876
shieet. How are freelance 3d artists supposed to make a living then? This license shit really takes a huge bite out of your bottom line
>>80926788
that's ok anon, but don't worry you'll do okay
I can only say that because I'm currently depressed and I know how it is, the funny thing about giving up is that you are actually trying something, you'lll never stop trying, not until you die, so just vent out so that you may continue with your life bro
just so you know, im 25+ years of age, I currently don't have a job, I have a 5+ years gay relationship within a community that would literally kill me if it was publicly known, and my lifelong dream is to do animation movies which I'm nowhere near to doing because of the region I live in, yet, I see this thread and I get hope from this glimmer of an opportunity, I have next to no experience in animation, but at least there's something to look up to
if I've learned something from my elders its that as long as we're not dead, there is sometihing that can be done
>>80924442
...How big is the software's file size?
>>80927020
you'll need about treefiddy
>>80926987
just pirate dragon frame if its just a hobby project
I haven't used others, but the concept is simple enough i cant imagine there being a really bad free one. Just look around, most are small enough and free that you won't waste a lot of time trying them out.
Really you just need a cord to connect your camera to the PC and then the rest is easy as far as programs go.
What kind of effects do you need? I use after effects but I pay for student creative cloud so it makes it worth it
>>80927017
But Anon,what if I AM dead?
>>80927104
stop trying to give mebonersman
Next week I'll start learning to animate during my spring break. I really can't have an excuse anymore.
>>80927089
My main problem is that I don't know where to start looking(and since I'm not pirate, I wouldn't know where to find a pirated version dragon frame either). I was looking for both special effects in general and possibly using drawn stuff.
>>80927331
kicking asses torrents
>>80925879
>free and open source
It'll cost $3,999/yr for a studio license.
>>80924442
>literally no excuse
"I just don't want to"
>>80926526
>tutorials
just draw from life and don't stop
>>80926370
Don't listen to this guy. Software makes it was easier(no lightboxes, scanners, don't have to keep lining up your papers)
>>80926501
don't they still make bamboo tablets? Those were pretty cheap. There are also knock-offs floating around the internet, I don't know how they fair for quality.i still use a 6-year-old bamboo fun and see no reason to buy a cintiq
>>80927829
why d people not just pirate it, I wonder? It's hard to find.
>>80928005Mygirlfriendhas a bamboo tablet. I'm more of a writefag, but I've been tempted to start drawing.
>>80928328
That's like asking why people didn't pirate Source Filmmaker before Valve released it
While this isn't exactly proprietary software, it wasn't commercially available it seems
>>80925403
>let's make a cartoon
>you do 5 seconds i do 5 seconds bob here does 5 sec-
>bob STOP DRAWING THE FURRIES FUCKING
Would be up to it regardless.
>>80925403
>tfw the only refuge from the shitposting is either actually watching things or practicing drawing for the "work on your art" threads
>tfw you can't bring yourself to muster the effort necessary for either
>>80925686
ok tomska
>>80927942
talking about drawing, not animation
digital animation is way easier and really the best way for amateurs, but you still need to learn to draw traditionally first before you move to digital drawing and THEN move to digital animation
>all these anons complaining that they can't draw to do animation
You literally have decades of modern art and design at your finger tips that doesn't require a bit of drawing knowledge. You could do collage, you could do abstract shapes, you can do just stick figures, as long as you have good design sense and/or a solid story you can make a good animation
>>80928774
You greatly overestimate us.
CartoonBrew's site design makes me claustrophobic
>>80928774
You can't make good animation without good drawings. Animation is a series of drawings.
>>80926480
I'm so glad I bought that shit myself right before they switched to subscriptions. I hate that shit.
Anyway, this Toonz news is interesting. I haven't experimented much with traditional animation beyond some animatic stuff but I'm definitely gonna have to look into this once it's out.
>>80928992
Wrong. Animation is just a means to an end, it can be literally anything as long as it moves. CHARACTER animation requires a drawn or rendered character, but even then you can do collage puppet animation and not have to put pen to paper ever
this won the best animated short and doesn't have a single figure that isn't an abstract shape for the first two minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmSbdvzbOzY
This is just objects
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNJdJIwCF_Y
>>80929662
You can make stick figures or blobs move around, and you can even make them move around at 24 frames per second, but that doesn't mean it's good animation. The drawings have to be good too.
That first video is a good representation of what's wrong with Western visual arts.
>>80929819
Its good animation if it conveys the point of the piece
Not every animation has to be disney or even realistic
And this whole time I thought that The Wind Rises was done entirely by hand
>>80927014
Use other tools? Just because the crooks have gotten their name out there as "THE INDUSTRY STANDARD" doesn't mean there are no alternatives, even if they'd like you to think so.
Tools don't make the artist, anyway.
>>80929847
Animation is an actual artform too, not just a vehicle for making statements.
>>80924442
>Open Source
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Open
>>80927017
I like your style kid
keep it up
I'm 24 just graduated college and don't have a job
but I should start applying for some
>>80929905
Its not about statements
Its about conveying the emotions needed for the story
Look at the Dot and the Line, they're fucking lines and yet they are expressive and give emotion. Its the reason why the flour sack exercises are so common, any animator will tell you that if you can give a simple shape emotion and weight you can do it with anything. And subverting ideas of weight and physics can be just as important.
And saying its an artform just reinforces my point, its entirely subjective and deals with artistic and cultural trends of the time.
>>80929940
>“Photoshop”
>Please avoid using the term “photoshop” as a verb, meaning any kind of photo manipulation or image editing in general. Photoshop is just the name of one particular image editing program, which should be avoided since it is proprietary. There are plenty of free programs for editing images, such as the GIMP.
I can smell the butthurt
Why do people get so fanny flustered over people using proper nouns to describe generic names that are longer?
>>80929892
The animation was, yes (it's possible that tablets were used as well, but knowing Miyazaki that seems unlikely). It's all the work after the animation that now gets done digitally, except for background paintings that probably were painted traditionally (in TV anime this is less common).
>>80930008
You are just trying to excuse bad animation.
>>80924442
>people will just end up making cartoons that look no different than your typical flash cartoon
this shit changes nothing. they are just name dropping popular animated features making people think the shit they make with the program is going to instantly look that good.
>>80930059
I'll never understand why people dislike that kind of shit. The idiot doesn't even give a good alternative for it. What should I say then? Photo manipulation? That has connotations towards models and other such things those two words conjure up. Image editing? That feels clunky to say and at times people WILL have a need to ask what exactly they mean by that. Photoshop comes across very clear to people so why change what works?
>>80930371
That's... not the point? The name dropping is obviously to get the software made aware to people, no doubt about that. But why is this so big? Ultimately, it's going to be FREE to use. Not having to pay for animation software is what this is really about. I think the article discussing this did state there'd be a paid version of it, but the free one should allow plenty for people to use for their own work.
>>80930481
>That's... not the point?
well judging by your post, you're obviously not getting the point of my post.
>>80930371
>>80930600
Its just a marketing tactic, don't read too much into it
You know what? Fuck it, I'm going to learn to draw and eventually make an animation.
>>80930869
I'm hear to tell you that you'll never stick to it and that you'll give up
I'll be here when you post it and I'll tell you it's shit and that you'll never make anything good
And I'll be hear when you prove me wrong.
>>80928774
Anon please, the major thing stopping these nerds is lack of drive.
>>80924442
I have no original ideas.
But it's cool that they're doing this.
>>80924442
I can't wait for the porn
>>80926241
The excuse is they're shit. Good thing we'll never be "graced" with their "efforts", then.
>>80925144
A pirated version of TVPaint is in the sticky of /ic/. "Free" doesn't mean shit.
>>80930279
Not the same anon, but I don't see how it's bad animation just because they're shapes.
The movement is fluid and though the concepts are abstract, the feelings they convey are obvious, witty, and idiomatic. The fact that they made shapes act in a way that could be conveyed so aesthetically is a sign of good design and the movement is done in a way which shows adept animating skills. Ex: using color, saturation, and brightness to convey mood, the shapes and configurations to convey personality/identity, and the movement of the shapes abstractly representing motion and mood the same way any character animation would. I mean, you could tell that the line was morose or jovial. That's conceptually crazy.
You're not gonna see that in some random stick figure animation on Newgrounds.
tl;dr there are a lot of bad animations and indications to the fall of Western Animation. The Dot and the Line is not one of them
I'm obscenely uncreative.
>>80926547
I really hope this is bait.If not, please seek help. Don't let depression and failure win like that.
>>80934744
The Dot and the Line is one of them. Maybe it's even the ultimate example. It throws away character design and background painting and replaces them with simple, barely animated geometric shapes and mostly blank backgrounds.
Is it free on iOS?
>>80935099
You're trying to make it something its not. It doesn't want to be a disney animation with big painted background and fluid characters, its supposed to use abstract and modernist mid century design to take a human story and abstract it to comedic and symbolic effect.
Just because its not to your tastes doesn't make it bad animation.
>>80936013
I am not saying it's a bad movie or even that its animation quality matters, but it's certainly not an example of good animation. Calling it good animation is an affront to actually good animation.
>>80936133
>opinions
Why is failure inherently bad?
Defeat is bad because it removes the possibility for success (assuming success is inherently good).
Defeat at first failure is a conscious choice, and an unnecessary one.
>>80936372
It's equivalent to claiming that a painting of a blue rectangle on a white background is just as good as some Caravaggio painting. It's an insult to art.
>>80936489
You know how there're some guys who don't ever ask any girl out because their self-esteem is so brittle and porous, they know they'd crumble at the first rejection and never recover? It's kinda like that.
