>One of the things I like about the X-Men is they're not killing people. I miss the idea of... heroes who stop that kind of thing from happening. Here's why I'm not running Marvel: If I was, I would kill the Punisher. I don't believe in what he does. The Punisher just shoots up places. And if you're telling me he's never hit an innocent, then I'm telling you, that's fascist crap.
The Punisher is a bullshit, dull as fuck character, though. Rucka came closest to making him entertaining.
>"I'm only okay with ideas that are 100% in line with what I myself believe being explored in fiction"
Fffffffffffffffuck off
Big talk, coming from the guy who loves to kill fan favorites.
Also, FUCKING WOLVERINE
>>80900177
But he had the Avengers kill thousands of thinking, feeling aliens.
And in the second one, the only repercussion for Hulk/Wanda killing a bunch of people was Bruce feeling bad.
>The Punisher is killed in an accident because he doesn't believe heroes should kill but he doesn't believe bad guys should win
>Accidentally shoots himself in the face
>Spiderman cracks a one liner because he doesn't believe you should end on a sour note
>Rest of the comic is just shots of Black Widow's ass and the Avengers holding hands and dancing up a rainbow
he's a hack. AOU was shit. Doesnt understand how to flesh out characters. Will kill off characters just because he doesnt want to understand his actions. He wants comics to be as boring and formulaic as possible
>>80900359
>that SJW Rucka
I think having heroes that never kill can get childish after a while, but having heroes that kill on the spot can get boring and melodramatic too. The way I see it, heroes should be like cops - try to avoid killing, but if a villain is off shooting innocents, by all means do the world a favor and chop his head off. I don't get why Batman keeps trying non-lethal solutions to dealing with the Joker when the Joker's plan for the day is murdering a thousand orphans.
>>80900177
Wait how is that fascist?
>>80900706
>le company wars
Aaaand filtered!
>>80900177
Xmen kill people all the time, Wolverine and his kill teams?
>fascist
This sounds like a buzzword the way he throws it out
>>80900752
>>80900820
>triggered trumpfags
>>80900706
It's just the shared universe shit. It's been ruining comics since day one. Adding infrastructure and rules to so many different series that unifies them makes them all boring and in line. The Punisher doesn't work in the Marvel shared universe at all. The only reason DC works is because they made the smart decision to have a multiverse instead of a universe and have all the superheroes operate in fictional cities. In Marvel it's all set in and around fucking New York so you just have to come up with some convenient excuse as to why Thor hasn't dropped a man whose power is having a lot of guns yet.
This coming from a guy whose most acclaimed show is about Southern Confedrates smuggling guns in space
>>80900752
It's not, libcucks like whedon like to throw that word around without knowing what it means.
>>80900872
Remember Rucka's Punisher; Thor wanted Frank cock.
>>80900752
in the same way that its fascist that i want the government to leave me alone
>>80900920
No, that's being entitled like a lolbertarian.
>>80900872
>why Thor hasn't dropped a man whose power is having a lot of guns yet.
does thor even care what's happening in new york?
>>80900948
i know it is, but ive been called a fascist for saying it
>>80900973
Thor seems more content to let humanity do as they please and only intervene when a huge threat happens that would wipe them out.
>>80900752
Stupid people call whatever they don't like fascist and whoever they don't like Hitler because
>>80901015
Well, all right wing ideologies are fascist.
23 replies
>no source
>>80901068
even the centrist ones these days
>>80901071
Its a well worn quote though.
>>80901071
It's from an old magazine interview from a few years ago.
Idiots like to post it as easy bait and /co/ always bites.
>>80901100
>centrist
Double agents, you mean.
The X-Men don't kill? Yeah right Cyclops authorized and organized black ops teams like Wolverine's X-Force, which their primary goal was to eliminate anti-mutant organizations. Storm ripped out hearts in the past. Dark Phoenix destroyed millions! And if you count some other "members" like Magneto and Sabretooth well, X-Men's body count is far more vast than Punisher's. Sorry Mr. Whedon.
>>80900559
Thinking feeling aliens who were invading as part of an army.
Just because Frank calls his diary a war journal doesn't mean he or his targets meet the legal definitions of combatants.
In the second one, Bruce literally puts himself in exile over what he's become. He's tried out the Avengers thing, and now he's decided it's not for him and brings out the worst in him. Like he said, he's always angry. Why give that an outlet?
>>80901152
>Cyclops authorized and organized black ops teams like Wolverine's X-Force, which their primary goal was to eliminate anti-mutant organizations. Storm ripped out hearts in the past. Dark Phoenix destroyed millions!
See, those things only happen in bad stories.
Bruce Timm in a Gods and Monsters interview said it best.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZG9oABNSTA
>...their responses to criminal elements, it's kind of realistic in a way. There's this weird unwritten code that anybody who wears spandex isn't allowed to kill a bad guy -- and it's just like well why not, I don't get it.
>I mean if a cop is out on the field and he sees somebody gonna get killed, and he's got his gun, it's his duty to actually use lethal force -- and it's like why shouldn't that apply to superheroes.
>It's not like these guys are bloodthirsty killers, it just that hey, it's practical.
>>80901217
>Bruce Timm
So, euh, his Batman regularly kills?
>>80901126
non-agents. i just want my drugs, kinky sex, and low taxes
>>80901217
>and it's like why shouldn't that apply to superheroes
Cops are accountable to a higher authority, superheroes aren't.
This seems pretty basic Timm
>>80901207
Bad stories or not, they did happened. And this is not about if these are bad stories or not, but for Mr. Whedon's ignorant comment that "X-Men don't kill".
>>80901283
Entitled like a lolbertarian, I tell you.
>>80901217
Is he fucking serious? Unwritten code? It's because they are costumed vigilantes. They are already breaking the law, if one of them kills somebody they also collectively look like murderers. They all do it for different reasons but for the most part they aren't stupid, the costumes are to protect their identities and the no kill rule is so the law or even the military doesn't suddenly decide to take them up on their declaration of war.
>>80900177
Does he literally not get that the Punisher is not a hero that does the right thing, but does the only thing that he can, to stop wrong things from happening?
>>80901300
>not having a personal canon
Mine is: if it's bad, it's not canon.
>Mr. Whedon
Somehow this indicates you're very very angry.
>>80900359
The punisher imo works best when viewed as a force of nature. Frank is going to do what he is going to do. What is compelling is how others react to him. Does the character try to stop him? Help him in an 'enemy of my enemy' sort of way? Maybe even agree with him deep down?
>>80900872
>Thor hasn't dropped a man whose power is having a lot of guns yet.
Because although they can't be publicly for it, they almost all agree with him. They can't do it, so hes the hands off approach of dealing with injustice they can't
>>80901363
>to stop wrong things from happening
Frank himself knows killing criminals doesn't stop crime, anon; he just needs to kill, and criminals are the perfect excuse.
>>80901309
better than a fascist road builder
>>80901428
Nah, a fascist will always be a fascist but a centrist will always be a backstabber. Nazis and Germans, you know.
>>80901418
Of cause he can't stop crime form happening. But he can punish the people that nobody else is able to, or wants to punish. It's a part of his freaking name.
>>80901478
they were authoritarian middle, you need to add some dimensions to your political scale
>>80901370
Not angry, just ponting out that Whedon, bringing the X-Men, among all the other super hero teams, as an example of the "non kill policy", is hypocritical at least. X-Men never had such kind of "code". They will do, what ever they have to in order to preserve the mutant kind. And also most of their villains and mass murderers have been members of their group.
>>80901068
Libertarianism is actually a left-wing ideology.
>>80901217
I did like that about gods and monsters. They seemed to be skirting the line between justice lords and justice league but never really fell one way or the other. At one point they do consider a full blown takeover but decide against it. They just resolved to be a little less cavalier about killing in the future.
>>80901585
>authoritarian middle
Oxymoron
>>80900177
>Of they're against my philosophies then they aren't good characters
No wonder why everyone in AOU sounded the same.
>>80901071
It was from Wizard. I remember the interview.
>>80901404
The amount of plot armor involved with making
Frank a "force of nature" is phenomenal.
>>80900177
>I kill all characters who I personally disagree with
What a fucking retard
>>80901739
you're only thinking in terms of left and right
>>80901854
And yet he doesn't see the irony in this situation.
>>80900177
I agree with this man. Is there something wrong with what he said?
>>80901404
I sort of get you. I enjoy the Punisher because I fucking hate bad guy clichés. I hate when they act all hard ass and brave in the face of danger and spit in the heroes face when they grill them. I hate when bad guys get off justifying what they do knowing the hero probably isn't going to kill them but ultimately just uses this as a pretence to get one up on the hero. The Punisher isn't a hero that fights crime, he fights meta crimes. Every cliché that gets thrown at him his response is to put a bullet in its head as it screams for mercy and tries to bargain.
>>80900177
>I would kill the Punisher. I don't believe in what he does.
That doesn't mean the character shouldn't exist you fucking retard. Has this guy never read a book? There's countless characters that are the main focus, but aren't good guys. Some people do bad things because they think it right, and you can make perfectly good stories based on that concept. How does this faggot still have a job?
>>80901409
Which makes them disgusting. That's Marvels main flaw right there. They don't have super heroes, they just have regular dudes with superpowers.
>>80900177
I dont think you know what fascism is.
>>80900752
The basic reasoning is that having a fantasy of a lone "strong man" who holds the sole power of life and death is a fascistic concept. Especially if he goes around executing the untermenchen with impuny.
Frank would, in a realistic sense, inevitably fuck up, kill a bystander, kill someone who didn't deserve it, et cetera.
Of course, all superheroes apply for this to one extent or another, and realism destroys the genre. Frank just takes it further than most.
>>80901987
How most higher-ups still have jobs.
Nepotism and money.
What? The X-men have absolutely killed people
>>80901987
>That doesn't mean the character shouldn't exist you fucking retard. Has this guy never read a book? There's countless characters that are the main focus, but aren't good guys. Some people do bad things because they think it right, and you can make perfectly good stories based on that concept. How does this faggot still have a job?
Well its also hypocritical, yknow like all leftists. They believe in nonviolence but if they don't agree with your ideology the gloves come off and they prove that they're even worse than the people they denounce.
>>80900752
>Wait how is that fascist?
Same way it's hipster or autistic.
"I don't like thing, people who like thing are X."
Insert whatever trending buzzword insult of the day.
>>80902110
That time Wanda killed basically all the mutants.
>>80900177
>And if you're telling me he's never hit an innocent, then I'm telling you, that's fascist crap.
And if you're telling me Cyke hasnt leveled a build or two with his punch beams, then I'm telling you,Cyclops was right
This is Wheldon
>I hate Punisher so much i am going to have him admit to killing kids, even though on multiple occasions he is shown taking physical damage saving kids.
>I support child rape and slavery
>>80900177
>I don't like that Punisher kills people
>Instead of writing a story where he realizes what he does is wrong I'll just kill him
>>80902110
From the X-Men, i believe that only Nightcrawler hasn't killed someone.
>>80902157
I personally don't believe in violence as an option, but not being able to see why some people still choose to use it would unemphatic of me. I try to see both sides of every argument, and while I might not always agree with people, I should at least be able to see things from their point of view. As a relatively left leaning guy, this whole "If you aren't with us, you're against us"-mentality that has been growing on the leftist side is pissing me off.
>Joss Whedon will never direct a x-men movie
>He will always be remember as the master quipper and the guy that made age of ultron as awful as the comic AoU
Honest question, how does this fat cunt still get work?
>>80901843
He was saved in Nam by what we can only assume to be the sweet whisper of Lady Death herself.
People wonder why he has magical plot armor.
Even Lady Death wants this human filth to die.
>Wheldon thinks he is above Lady Death.
The Punisher works best when he is slaying human filth, slave traders, rapists, murderers, pedophiles.
On a side not, Wheldon don't know shit about guns and what different caliber bullets can achieve, Punisher on the other hand is well versed all warfare including urban.
>>80900177
>Wolverine
>Not killed
>>80902479
>I personally don't believe in violence as an option, but not being able to see why some people still choose to use it would unemphatic of me. I try to see both sides of every argument, and while I might not always agree with people, I should at least be able to see things from their point of view. As a relatively left leaning guy, this whole "If you aren't with us, you're against us"-mentality that has been growing on the leftist side is pissing me off.
You notice you said left leaning, and spoke of empathy. The creatures I'm talking about have no empathy, they just use buzzwords and try to relate to people they consider inferior to themselves.
Its why they can look at the line between conservative and progressive and pick a side, because they're total morons.
I don't disparage left leanings at all, classical liberalism with a fair bit of conservative economics seems correct to me.
But these "things" like whedon, I just don't know if i can consider them human any longer, look at that quote, hes completely incapable of critical thinking.
>>80900177
>I don't like the idea of killing fictional characters
>first thing I would do is kill a fictional character I don't like
Nevermind that you're shitting all over a revenue stream because the product gives you the frownies.
What a hack cunt.
>>80902639
We really should cull the population through their posts on social media.
>>80902595
Psylocke?
Magneto?
Storm?
Cyclops?
Phoenix?
Angel/Archangel?
And the list continues....
>>80902718
>We really should cull the population through their posts on social media.
I don't want them dead, I just wish I could be sure they came to their conclusions by deliberation and choice rather than propaganda and feelings.
I want them humans to become greater, they seems to be content to lower everyone to keep people from feeling bad about it.
>>80900754
I don't see how anything he said was company wars.
>>80902639
It's just so annoying because I can see why they might find some things to be a problem, but they are so fucking retarded when talking about it. Like they would see that a clock had a broken part in it, so now the whole clock is contaminated and has to be destroyed, instead of just fixing the one broken part. Also the fact that they are so good at seeing something and then make it all about them and what they believe in, when it might not be there in the first place. A set of big tits doesn't automatically mean that someone is being oppressed. They love jumping to conclusions to further their own agenda, though I guess both sides are pretty good at that.
>>80900177
I dont see why anyone ever has trusted Sensitive Joss Whedon to write anything. He wrote fucking Alien:Resurrection for gods sake. The worst fucking Alien movie and one of the worst movies off all time.
>>80902973
Its dog whistle politics is what is and I'm very very tired of it.
>>80900752
Welcome to the age of the internet, "fascist" means "something I don't like" and "debate" means "who can insert Godwin's Law the soonest."
>>80902996
Never seen the Alien series, what's so bad about Resurrection? I'm interested if it's shitty for the same reasons his MCU stuff is.
>>80900359
Punisher is good only under Ennis. That is all.
>>80900820
"Buzzword" is an advertising term, anon.
Meanwhile, actual fascism.
>>80904274
Has anyone called out this guy on his advocacy for Liberal Fascism?
>>80900177
Punisher's not a hero, he's a vigilante, but it's an intriguing idea and counter to the standard hero.
The idea that you hate people who kill, and would kill them, is silly.
>And if you're telling me he's never hit an innocent, then I'm telling you, that's fascist crap.
74 people died during an alien invasion of New York City where 154 people die daily
>>80904338
You're implying that he'd listen.
>>80904338
Probably not.
In any case, he'd just say fascism is right wing like the retard he is.
Commies, I swear.
>>80904338
He's a fat, autistic virgin who lives in his parents basement and dresses up in costumes to review children's games in his backyard.
I don't think he's gonna be marching through the streets with the Brown Shirts any time soon.
>>80900177
>One of the things I like about the X-Men is they're not killing people. I miss the idea of...
Wolverine. You stupid fuck. You've written him.
>>80904452
I'm 99% certain Bob Chipman isn't a communist.
>>80904193
"Buzzword" is also a term that has been adapted into everyday use, not just people in advertising, anon.
It's like how people use the term "narrative" when talking about news.
Most people have become savvy enough about media manipulation whether it be in news or advertising or even daily conversation that they've become common to the modern lexicon.
>>80900177
>fascist
>>80900706
The Punisher is not and has never been a hero though. the problem isn't that he kills it's that people think he is a super-hero for killing.
>>80904495
Its just a funny word to call left-leaning retards.
Double points if they get in a huff trying to say its not a "dirty word".
If you can call everything right-wing fascist, then you can call everything left-wing communist in the simplistic mind's worldview.
The way he talks though seems like he'd very much ascribe to some derivative form of communism if he took the time to stop playing video games and read.
>>80904495
Bob is not a communist. He may be a liar, a pig, an idiot, a communist, but he is *not* a porn star!
>>80900559
I don't think the Chitauri were thinking or feeling, or else just blowing up a mothership on the other side of a portal wouldn't have turned them all off.
>>80900905
I like some of Joss's stuff buts he's completely full of shit sometimes. It's perfectly fine for Buffy to kill every vamp she runs across but Punisher killing criminals is across the line?
>>80901217
Whose dick do I have to suck for a Gods and Monsters TV series?
>>80900706
>I don't get why Batman keeps trying non-lethal solutions to dealing with the Joker when the Joker's plan for the day is murdering a thousand orphans.
Because Bruce Wayne is a deeply mentally unstable individual, and most of that stems from his inability to confront mortality. Batman is the guy who doesn't want to see anyone die, no matter what, and he's not able to kill even if his inaction leads to more death.
I think that's more of a personal neurosis of his than a moral stance.
>>80900177
The Punisher hasn't ever killed an innocent.
Although whether or not people deserve death for the crimes he punishes are a different matter entirely.
A stupid 17 year old gang banger isn't an innocent. He's deep in it. but we also have plenty of stories of people who, after going to jail, turn themselves around from that, and they never get a chance to because Frank Franked them.
But this is kind of okay, because it's a fictional character in a world without nuance. If I wanted a gang banger who also kind of regrets dropping out of school because he really enjoyed history class because Mr. Prezbo made the material interesting even if the rest of school was bullshit, and even though he sell drugs and gets into street fights he still considers himself a good person and goes to church with his grandma and shit, I'd watch the wire, not read a comic book.
>>80904146
I disagree, Ennis did a lot, but a lot of the old stuff are very good.
>>80902110
Yeah, fucking seriously. Where do these people get off on thinking that Frank's the only person to have killed someone? Wolverine's rap sheet has gotta be at least as long as Frank's.
>>80900177
>One of the things I like about the X-Men is they're not killing people.
>Wolverine doesn't kill people
Excuse me?
>The Punisher just shoots up places. And if you're telling me he's never hit an innocent,
And X-Men never hurt an innocent when Cyclops shoots his eyeblasts or when Jean Grey is throwing stuff around, right?
>>80904414
Srhbutts is a pedophile, no joke. One of the few good thing Gamergate did was exposing that sick fuck
>>80900177
God he sounds like such a bore.
>>80904669
Bob is actually kind of the opposite of a communist.
He hates the proletariat because he doesn't believe that the sheeple know what's best for them, he considers himself some kind of Platonic Philosopher King who should reign over the the world alongside his like-minded peers.
Never mind the fact that he's a bottom-scraping loser surviving on internet welfare who moved back into his mom's flooded basement at the age of 31.
>>80905166
So basically one of those types that, in the event of an actual revolution, would probably be one of the first with a bullet through the back of his head.
>>80900177
I want to spit-shine his head
>>80904890
Wolverine's probably killed as many people as Punisher.
>>80900177
Eh who cares what this faggot thinks
>>80904414
UUUU
>>80901418
So, he's a serial killer who kills criminals. A more brutal Dexter.
>>80901987
>Some people do bad things because they think it right, and you can make perfectly good stories based on that concept.
Is it really shown as being bad things in The Punisher? If some people think he is a hero, it means they don't think what is doing is wrong.
>>80900177
Whedon has his flaws and even though punisher has some points, I respect Whedon's oppinion on this one. If he were to direct the next X-Men movie, I wouldn't dislike it.
>>80902584
>The Punisher works best when he is slaying human filth, slave traders, rapists, murderers, pedophiles.
So The Punisher works best when he's killing people the readers think of as monsters. It's just dehumanization. He's not killing human being, he's killing monsters. That way, the readers can root for a bad guy who can't live without killing other bad guys.
>>80900907
> Being judge, jury, and executioner isn't facist
Punisher is Dredd without the legal backing. Dredd is literally a facist
>>80900177
You're not running Marvel because AoU was a catastrophe.
The only reason superheroes don't kill their villains is because the writers would have to come up with something new instead of reusing the same ones for sixty years. Nothing to do with morality.
>>80900406
>FUCKING WOLVERINE
Came here to post this.
>>80900177
This bait is 12/10 I'd take it again.
>>80902013
Why is that a flaw?
>>80900359
>Rucka's Punisher
>good
One of the worst Punisher runs I've ever read. I have no idea why /co/ has a boner for this piece of shit.
>One of the things I like about the X-Men is they're not killing people.
What a retard.
>Here's why I'm not running Marvel: If I was, I would kill the Punisher.
What a retard!
>if you're telling me he's never hit an innocent, then I'm telling you, that's fascist crap.
WHAT A RETARD! Batman and Superman do dangerous shit all the fucking time despite their no-kill policies, it's no more ridiculous for Frank to have a clean track record than it is for them. How often does Batman blow shit up and punch people in the face? It's totally ridiculous for him to have a zero fatality rate.
The whole premise of Civil War is based on collateral casualties that superheroes directly caused.
>>80901015
If you want the government to butt out and let corporations exploit people then yeah you're pretty much a fascist. I assume this is why you were accused of being one.
>>80901217
>cops are sanctioned and licensed by the state
>capes do it for free and answer only to themselves
>>80902466
Kurt was truly a saint between the muties, he should be the one leading the X-Men and making peace with humanity, oh wait he is dead nevermind
>>80904872
Even longer considering Wolverine has been killing people since FUCKING WORLD WAR II.
>>80900177
>I'd kill the Punisher because he kills
I bet Whedon would let the Joker just keep escaping Arkham too
>>80900177
Negro. Wolferine has a kill count as high as the Punisher. His fucking power is to slice people with his claws
Someone go tweet Whedon and tell them that a lot of the X-men have killed people- what excludes Frank from it?
I bet it's because Franks a big white dude and not apart of an oppressed race like the muties.
>>80900177
>Punisher
>hero
>>80900177
Does this dildo even know about X Force? Literally the X Men's wet works kill team.
>>80900177
>
God, what a boring asshole. The Marvel Universe is big enough to have the X-Men protecting muggas and the Punisher killing criminals. Plus his solution is killing off the Punisher after saying he likes nonlethal heroes. Plus I'm sure most every famous X-Men has killed a couple of times.
>>80905535
The point is that a good writer should be able to write protagonists he doesn't agree with, not give every character the same personality as himself.
>>80905166
I have no idea who this is, but I hate him, very much so.
>>80900177
and that is why I pirate every fucking movie
suck my dick you faggots
>>80900177
>I want to kill a character who thinks killing people is right, because I don't agree with him
Does he not see the fucking irony in what he said?
>>80900359
Nice try, tumblr. Rucka can't write shit unless he self-inserts a female version of himself.
>>80905926
>I readily admit I have no idea what fascist means
>>80908939
>Licensing or government approval makes anything okay
>>80905748
Psychopathic brains aren't human in the traditional sense. It's impossible to tell who's amygdala is genuinely neurologically defunct without a brain scan, but the differences are horrifying. Something that doesn't feel empathy and actually relishes causing despair IS a monster.
Some deserve worse than a bullet. Death just puts Frank on a straight path towards them.
>>80908701
Because STANDING ON THE EDGE. Get it? XD
>>80900177
>that's fascist crap.
the fuck? do they just use "fascist" to mean whatever they want it to mean now? like how we use "autistic"?
>>80917368
He's not wild enough.
But deep down, we're all inside an abandoned child.
>>80904029
Christ, anon. Get the fuck on that. The first two films, though radically different in style, are both masterpieces in their own right. How have you not seen two of the most influential pieces of science fiction in the last fifty years?
>>80900177
Is he really that fucking retarded?
Even The Boy Scout, Superman himself gets into fights with baddies where they level a dozen sky scrapers (I'm sure no one died though), when he has the ability to ramp his approach up to 11 from the start and end it before it becomes a fight.
Does he?
Fuck no, and he's not alone in that faggoty ideologically misguided approach.
And fuck anyone who applauds that retarded shit.
>>80908701
Because it's excellent. Rucka called upon his Gotham Central days to frame a fantastical universe through the eyes of the police force cleaning up the messes and piecing it all together. On top of this, he introduced a female pseudo-legacy character that wasn't an obnoxious Mary Sue and had memorable nuance. I enjoyed that his run was focused more on Frank's wake than Frank himself.
>>80900177
Where does fascism enter the equation?
I mean I get it, he wants heroes that don't kill but is fascism required for killing people?
Also X force, Deadpool and Cable kill plenty of people with guns.
>>80900177
Well, looks like he's just like Paul Verhoeven's handling of one of Robert A. Heinlein books; Star ship Troopers.
You'd these directors would have a sense of professional respect for works they don't agree with and if they can't do an unbiased movie about a subject they don't like it, then don't make the movie, or declare it as a parody or satire.
>>80901418
>Frank himself knows killing criminals doesn't stop crime, anon; he just needs to kill, and criminals are the perfect excuse.
Frank's name is "The Punisher" not "The Preventer".
He doesn't prevent crime at all. He stops repeat offenses.
>>80917920
Anything Whedon doesn't like is fascism. Guy Killing criminals. Fascism. Pineapple on his pizza? Fascism. Pee standing up? Fascism.
>>80900406
>fan favorites
yeah because i'm sure that wouldn't be the case regardless of who anybody kills off.
>>80900177
What the fuck is up with Directors getting all big headed?
George Lucas
M. Night Shyamalan
Joss Whedon
...they all let success go to their head and become raging assholes and the older they get, the more they retract to a fantasy world of their own creation and surround themselves with yes men.
>>80918017
>implying he didn't kill Shepard Book for any reason other then fan reaction
I'm still a little mad.
>>80918021
>What the fuck is up with Directors getting all big headed?
I think he was born with it.
Would Frank kill someone for killing someone else in self defense?
>>80918092
Not unless he wasn't aware of the situation.
>>80900177
>I don't like him killing
>He should be killed
???!
>>80915636
This.
The government is made of people.
People are inherently corruptible.
And if you read enough on political corruption, including day to day occurrences at all levels, you lose faith.
When they built the new DMV, they moved it outside of the city into what WAS farmland.
They built a new interstate on/off ramp for it and a bridge and the facility cost a fortune.
Now get this, of the people who made that decision, one had just bought the land a couple years before for dirt cheap and then sold it for 20x what he paid.
Another was directly related to one of the main construction companies that did most of the work at a very generous rate.
Neither of these men were prosecuted or removed from their positions.
I could relate bullshit, just locally all day. And we're actually one of the less corrupt cities/states.
I don't trust the motivations behind ANYTHING our politicians do, at any level of government.
Fuck them.
And fuck the boot licking scum that want to give them more power, more authority, more say so in our daily lives, more tools to impose their will, and more of my money filtering through them.
These faggots spouting fascist are just as, if not more, authoritarian than those they're calling out.
>>80918092
He's had plenty of story arcs revolving around misunderstandings.
>people saying the X-Men have killed before
But those don't count since they happened in a comic he didn't grow up with.
>>80902842
Bucket of crabs.
>>80902466
Remember me?
>>80901404
1970's-1980's America was rife with gang violence, drugs, corrupt police forces, economic down turns and Frank is a just a war veteran returning from a brutal hellish war and is need of support and care, but it's a social/politically unpopular war where the mass public spits on soldiers and old war veterans are disappointed in them for losing and the drug use in the field.
Franks only relief that gave him love, understanding and support was his family, but they were killed by the mafia on accident and much like Batman, Frank becomes a crime fighter...but you know, doesn't have the "every sperm is sacred" mentality that Batman has and kills street thugs and mobsters.
Not much to like, not much to hate, he's simple yet sympathetic and endearing character and really it's a story that been around forever, even before comic books existed.
>>80909197
Does anyone has all of frank's stories of this? THe only place i've found his tunderbolts arc was on viewcomic and they only have 2 issues.
>>80901418
Look, Frank couldn't prevent you from skinning 32 babies and jacking off with their faces, but he's going to make sure he prevents you from skinning your 33rd baby and jack off with it's face.
He stops you by shooting you.
It's not perfect, but it's better then having you arrested be on trail for a decade with appeals and eventually put in prison for the rest of your life draining the people's tax money because capital punishment has become unpopular in today's soft society.
The thousands upon thousands of dollars being spent keeping, you, a baby killer alive behind bars, OR .35 cents for a bullet to your head, or perhaps not even that if Frank feels like he needs a morning warm up and uses you as a punching bag and maybe the cost of his dry cleaning to remove the blood from his clothes and of course the price of having your worthless corpse removed and cremated.
>>80918184
More or less. This is why so many writers are adamant on keeping him a Vietnam vet, even though it makes less sense each passing year. Frank was a guy who went through hell, had one moment of truth, and then realized he would never escape. And Vietnam has such a mythology of hellishness and monstrousness built around it that no recent war's even come close to reaching.
Like, can you imagine him as a veteran of the Gulf War? Or the war in Afghanistan?
>>80902389
This. Killing is wrong...but not when I kill.
--Joss Whedon
>>80904716
I wish Terry Pratchett was still alive...
In his fantasy world, the undead band together and basically do a "Dead Lives, Matter" protest against vampire hunters and clerics turning zombies.
>>80904375
If anything The Punisher is the epitome of pragmatism with a dash of stupidity...
I mean his thinking is "See child molester, kill child molester, no more molested child", in the practical way it makes sense but he just takes it to the extreme with his "no hope of reforming a criminal" policy
>>80906213
This.
Mysterymen proved that when a super hero is that is proficient at fighting crime, will eventually have no crime to fight because they locked up the super criminals.
Bat man is not a hero, he's just making sure he has job security by not killing the Joker.
>>80904146
Bullshit son, I like Ennis but a lot of the old stuff is decent if you're not desperate to take things too seriously.
>>80909156
WW2? he's been sknikting bubs since the 19th century
>>80911547
This.
>>80915487
Liberal hipsters rarely do, hell they are barely self aware and just conform to the social/political group because they fear being lonely.
>>80918275
>Like, can you imagine him as a veteran of the Gulf War? Or the war in Afghanistan?
Yes.
>>80918014
Okay, you mean to tell me he dose not like pineapple and ham pizza, even with garlic crust and ranch dressing for dipping?
Okay, Fuck Whedon, we need to get the torches and pitchforks. He's gone too far.
>>80918256
marvel unlimited has them, if you want to cough up 10 bucks a month for a catalog of a metric shitton of comics that is
I'm guilty of coughing up those ten dollars and I'm extremely satisfied with it, it has saved me a lot money to have more than 10 thousand back issues on stream 24/7
>>80918275
Vietnam is the only US war I can name where the soldiers were demonized as a whole when they came back, even by other soldiers of other wars. That gives an element that you just don't get with any of the wars in the middle east. When's the last time you saw a modern US soldier not called a hero fighting for our freedom?
>>80915487
>a writer killing off a character is the same thing as an in-universe character being a mass murderer
If you genuinely can't see the difference, you may well be autistic.
>>80918546
They both kill fictional characters.
>>80918521
>>80918184
Can stop perpetuating this myth? The whole "baby killer," and vets got spat thing is a fabrication.
>>80918275
The only thing that has been super crazy "old style" fighting was a few battles in Iraq for just a normie Marine, unless we make him special forces and have him in every fucked up engagement in the past ten years...
Frank works best as a nam vet.
>>80918466
Every warrior's experience is different, but the Gulf was was boring as fuck for me and Gulf War 2 was only slightly less boring because of the IED that my humvee went over.
There was some shit, but not Punisher Born levels of shit, where hundreds of Hadji are charging at us with bayonets fixed...maybe now if we get into it with ISIS in Syria, but that's probably not going to happen unless Hilary becomes president because she hates soldiers and would rather deploy infantry because smart bombs are expensive.
This quote is now 10 years old.
>>80918568
Fabrication or not it's still part of the popular culture.
>>80918172
>SEVEN EXECUTIONS
Sorry, bud.
>>80918568
You know, that wasn't "too" long ago...I mean, we can legit say it was last century now, but I don't think that's ancient history and thus qualify for myths.
I grew up in the 70's and I doubt my parents and their entire generation decided behind closed doors to make hating Nam vets a myth...hell the reason why Portland Oregon/San Francisco/Berkley/New York hipsters are anti government and anti military is because their college professors are the old hippies from back then.
>>80900559
Its pretty bullshit to try and say there were no inadvertant deaths from any of the Avengers in the first or AOU.
>>80900177
>Every character has to behave in the same way
>>80917916
>because it's excellent
If you have no taste whatsoever. The storytelling is dull and lifeless, the dialogue is something a third-rate romance novelist who got his hands on a crime novel would write, the art is shit and the story itself is mediocre tripe.
>wasn't an obnoxious Mary Sue
No, just an extremely dull character like every female character Rucka creates.
> had memorable nuance
Good joke.
>>80918598
The change seems to work with the Netflix iteration. Any writer can just make up a cluster fuck drawing from one's that happened in recent years, sure it won't be 'Nam but the power will be in the writer's hand.
>>80904146
You deserve to be punished.
But then again, I looked at CBR's list of 40 best Frank stories, and most of them were by Pennis.
Fucking normies
>>80902060
>>80900177
>Spiderman is allowed to stick to walls with no questions
>Thor is allowed to summon storms and somehow throwing his hammer allows him to fake flight without questions
>Frank Castle isn't allowed to be professional enough to not involve innocents with skills and tasks normal real people are capable of doing
This is all I can hear in this argument, and I hear complete bullshit.
>>80918902
Yeah. It was a pretty pivotal scene in Welcome Back Frank when he informed one of his imitators that his attempt at solving corporate corruption was actually killing a lot of janitors in the crossfire, before shooting him. Frank might be a bit of an ass at times, but he does try to avoid killing people who don't deserve it.
In fact, a big point in that arc is that anyone who actually attempted to be Frank Castle would either be an incompetent hooligan or a total psychopath.
>>80901295
Which is why GLs should kill. And they can! Thanks based Johns.
>>80901207
>Remender's X-Force
>bad
Go fuck yourself with a rake.
>>80919369
Remender's X-Force wasn't bad just out of character. Suffered the same fate as Austin's X-Men even though his was actually way better.
>>80900177
Yeah, now I get what this guy got fired from being the head cheerleader for the MCU.
It's fine if you don't like a character. We all have our favorites, and only the biggest assholes would fault you for not having the same favorites as they do. But the moment you kill a character you become one of those biggest assholes. You make the decision that everybody has to like the same thing you do, and that nobody gets to like the Punisher.
Now, I don't really care that much about the character, eventhough I found the DD version oddly tame and softspoken, despite the ruthless violence he enacted, but when you claim you would make a unilateral decision like that, yes, you've completely lost me.
>>80904716
Vamps don't have souls. Mal, Jayne, Zoe and Rover all killed plenty though.
Personally, I think all of you are overstating this. The real thing behind is just Whedon doesn't like the Punisher, and let's be honest, we all have that one character we'd like to kill off. For me, it'd be John Stewart. What a useless piece of shit character.
>>80918749
>the art is shit
Come on, man. Try a little harder with your bait. You almost had me.
>>80919530
>Vamps don't have souls.
Vamps are fictional and if a writer wants them to have souls in their story then they'll have souls in their story.
I was going to write up a long post about the problems with writers running away with a setting that allows killing as a means of defense or stopping heinous crimes, but everything I could think of boils down to:
>Shitty writers will inevitably turn a hero that kills in to an edgemonger prince of edge.
What is it with American comic books and the mentality there has to be either no killing or one kill means the hero has to start crafting a carpet of dead bodies? There's clearly a large area in the middle.
I didn't care much for Frank's 2 most recent 616 runs. A plus I will give Rucka and cheeto is that when they brought up the military stuff, they didn't jack off about it like Edmonson and Gerads. I felt Edmonson was going for the action hero vibe of the older comics, but it fell flat in my opinion. I'm looking forward to Cloonan and Dillon(Stockholm syndrome? )
>>80919578
In Buffy they don't, it was specifically a plot point that Angel got his soul back and stopped being a murderpire.
In Buffy world, when you become a vampire your soul fucks off and a demon assumes its place and takes over your personality, memories and body. So it's okay to kill them.
>>80919676
Oh, I miss read the reply chain. Pulling an all nighter does that shit to you I guess.
>>80919609
You have exceptions. Sinestro Corps War has killing without falling to evil (although there are still some shades of that theme).
>>80900177
>that's fascist crap
>Everything I don't like is fascist.
How these SJW idiots don't see they are the ones fueling the right wingers in the western world I'll never understand.
People won't stop liking what you don't like, they will just start distancing themselves from you and start looking for an alternative. And SJWs are promoting a possible alternative with their every breath. With every hyperbolic statement like Whedon's I get the impression that racists and fascist are actually a fun lowing bunch unlike the NeoLeftists, even though I know better. It saddens me to see the left fall into the same trap the right fell into during the 80s and 90s when they though they were untouchable.
>>80901217
>There's this weird unwritten code that anybody who wears spandex isn't allowed to kill a bad guy --
I think that was part of the CCA back in the day, actually.
It's okay to kill when it's aliens
The Punisher is an interesting character because he's that age old morality discussion walking on two legs.
He forces heroes to fess up to stuff and question their own ideals a bit.
So really, killing him would harm the Marvel Universe.
However if you encounter some "Frank is right!" faggots, their probably edgy teenagers dreaming of shooting up their high school.
That much I agree upon.
You could probably make an army out of everyone Frank has killed. As a matter of fact, have they ever had anyone collect the souls of those Frank kills?
>>80919968
Actually I'm pretty sure that's when the whole "NO KILLING" rule started with superheroes. By the time the code became less extreme it was an already important part of their characters and now you have faggots who actually believe Batman is right for not killing Joker or some shit. You do get some cool stuff in universe from it though like Magog being acquitted or Action Comics 775.
Headcanon: Big name superheroes don't kill because they know the villains will end up coming back again regardless because of experience in the game so they just lock them up to get some good public relations and inspire hope while the younger superheroes just follow suit without realizing that Batman/Superman/etc are just doing it for the public eye. When the first generation retires then the original reason will be mostly forgotten and the superheroes will actually believe in the NO KILLING rule.
>>80920148
Frank is right when it comes to killing super villains and run-of-the-mill criminals if they are even just endangering innocents but that's pretty much as far as it goes.
>>80900177
>UGH, CAN THE PUNISHER JUST, LIKE, NOT? LIKE I LITERALLY CAN NOT EVEN RIGHT NOW
I'm glad I decided to not support anything this faggot does and at most pirate any of his shit.
>>80920148
Really the issue is when edgelord 12 year olds writers get their hands on punisher and write him like some justice dealing invincible moral God.
Punisher can be really good when he's used sparingly and shown as tragic, the issue is times where they it becomes a punisherwank of him being always right, killing all the bad guys, beating the good guys, and being untouchable.
Similar issue deadpool has.
>>80909197
>I bet Whedon would let the Joker just keep escaping Arkham too
Pretty much.
>>80918256
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/peteis4324gn7/Punisher
I think they're under Miscellaneous.
>>80920938
>such a fucking Hawkeye fanboy that he's on the dream JLA team, too
>completely fucks the character up in two movies
How and why.
>>80911547
You can write a coherent bad guy with a good backstory and not present his action as being righteous.
The nature of a character and how he is portrayed are two differents things.
As a reader, I think it's more interesting to root for a bad guy doing bad things than to root for a one note the end justifies the means kind of guy.
I don't have to agree with a pure bad guy to root for him whereas I have to agree with a bad guy whose actions are presented as righteous, and I just can't.
>>80900177
Would this man eliminate Dredd too? Is there no end to his madness since feminists rejected him from the twittersphere?
>>80900177
>I don't like when people are killed
>I would kill Punisher
Subtle.
Also this is coming from the director of "it's okay to kill Chitauri" and "it's okay to kill robots".
>>80917256
Except not every criminal are psychopaths and Frank still kills them. Just look at him taking an entire mob party by himself.
>Psychopathic brains aren't human in the traditional sense.
You do realize how perverse this sentence is, right? Are people with Down syndrome humans? And autists? And people with bipolar disorder?
>>80919563
>I disagree with the opinion, it's le bait
Oh, fuck off. Chechetto is terrible.
>liking that lifeless, dull, blurry excuse for art
Let me guess, you think it's good art because "muh pretty pictures"
>>80900177
what a fucking cucked piece of shit.
>>80921811
Don't you know that writing stories with characters whose beliefs go against your own is problematic
>>80900177
lets be honest, he doesn't like Punisher because he's a straight white male who's unapologetic about his masculinity which offends sensitive joss whedon's numale sensibilities
>>80900359
I'm with you. But netflix is the best version so far cause he has severbrain damage
>>80900177
>>80900177
I kinds agree, Frank hasn't fit as part of Earth 616 since the late 80s, he really should have been killed off permanently by now
>>80909156
> oh wait he is dead nevermind
He is alive again, but lost his soul.
>>80915636
Government policies in a well functionning democracy are chosen by the citizens by electing a person with ideas that appeal to them.
A policeman has more power that a basic citizen but the limit of those powers are framed by people elected by a majority of citizens. Thus a majority of citizen chose to give more power to a few selected citizens to keep society civilised by arresting criminals. You'll note that they're still a whole judiciary system to make sure those people are really criminals and what their punition should be.
A super hero just do as he pleases with no legal framework.
>>80921829
> Are people with Down syndrome humans? And autists? And people with bipolar disorder?
no
>>80922326
So there's not a single human in this thread?
>>80922134
>>80901348
Yeah but like
He's not arguing in favor of hunting and killing criminals like the Punisher does. He's arguing in favor of using lethal force if it's the only option to stop an immediate threat. Such as shooting a guy who's currently firing into a crowd. Regular non-cop citizens are already allowed to do that, so why not superheroes?
But the X-men kill people all the time...they even use guns some of them and kill people with those...wait...DIDNT THIS ASSHOLE WRITE X-MEN?!?
>>80920938
>I'm taking out the Flash because I have Superman
What a fucking faggot.
>>80920938
Holy fucking shit.
This page is like purified faggot essence
>>80900177
>One of the things I like about the X-Men is they're not killing people
X-FORCE
NAMOR
SPACE X-MEN
JEAN GREY
X-FORCE UNDER WOLVERINE
FUCKING WOLVERINE!!
>>80923506
Colossus has killed too.
Storm has too I think.
I think during Extinction Agenda everyone got some.
>>80923641
Storm ripped marrows heart out. She survived but points for effort.
>>80900359
Hello there Whedon
>>80900177
I agree.
Punisher isn't necessarily a bad character, but he doesn't work in the Marvel Universe. Him being there makes everything worse, including him.
>>80926354
Punisher is best when he isn't tainted with the stink and decay of the Marvel Universe.
>>80926354
these days punisher can work better as a stand alone
>>80923506
Cyclops killed his own mentor.
Archangel almost destroyed the Marvel Universe in the Uncanny X-Force.
can someone post the required reading thing for the punisher
>>80929233
>>80901295
>implying cops ever get held accountable for killing someone
>Baltimore intensifies
