Why is he the single most hated intellectual property DC has? Not the fans, of course, but I mean the writers and the executives.
What is it about J'onn J'onzz that makes people at DC's blood boil with rage and vision go red? It's legitimately frustrating to me that we'll likely never see him on the big screen and that his role in comics has been essentially reduced to that of an extra.
Please explain it to me, /co/.
>>80825856
>his role in comics has been essentially reduced to that of an extra.
except he had a large role in the previous JLA book and currently has a solo
>>80825883
Ah, I haven't actually been following recently. Forgive my ignorance. How's the solo?
>>80825856
Williams Manhunter ruined the character for me, he has very few solid standalone comics.
The better question would be, why can't he ever be written right?
>>80825984
Because nobody likes him enough to put the care and energy into making a good comic about him?
>>80825883
>>80825950
the solo's dreadful.
>>80826199
What a fucking shame.
>>80826352
The DCYou solo is good right now. It's better when read all at once.
![220px-David_Goyer[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Rp9vq5g.jpg "220px-David_Goyer[1].jpg")
VIRGINS"a lot kids beat me up, saying that I killed Christ. I was very consciously different... I grew up with something of a chip on my shoulder."
>>80826024
Because they only care about the alien that looks like them... the one that looks human!
>>80826199
Ignore this fucking cocksucker, his ongoing is fucking great.
Read and decide for yourself.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/comic-previews/dc-sneak-peek-martian-manhunter-dc-comics-2015
http://viewcomic.com/?s=martian+manhunter
>tfw Martian Manhunter was your first /co/ crush
>>80825856
Johns doesnt hate the character.
But he fucked over himto shield hal jordan
>>80826551
Then Johns retconned MM back into being a founding member the first chance he got.
J'onn is one of my favorite comic characters. Probably my second overall. It's unfortunate he just hasn't had a chance to shine on his own since Ostrander's solo over a decade and a half ago.
If I ever had the chance to write him, I would bring him back to his days as a detective. I'm a little tired of so many creators going the "he's lonely Superman" route. It's been done before, and well. I liked the idea that J'onn is the type of person that wouldn't flaunt his godlike powers the same way Superman does. I like to think that J'onn would use his greatest gift: his mind. I also think his desire to become one with his new home would make him more inclined to fight the good fight on a smaller, more intimate scale; busting up bank robberies and child traffic cartels rather than fighting intergalactic threats.
Because even though he's capable of all that, I think J'onn's desire to find his place in a new world would lead him to care more about the little things than the big picture.
I think a story revolving around a detective J'onn trying to uncover a city-wide conspiracy would be cool. Maybe as he begins to uncover it, he finds that something has begun to make his telepathy grow weaker (White Martians? Jemm? Starro infestation?) and he is forced to use his wits and instincts rather than his powers to discover it.
Just my thought.
He doesn't have anything resembling a supporting cast
>>80826582
>Then Johns retconned MM back into being a founding member the first chance he got.
Who fucking cares when he was the one that kicked him out?
>>80826699
And Cyborg does?
>>80826582
The damage has been done. The movie is being made. People will remember Cyborg as a founding member for all eternity.
>>80825883
Isn't DC rebooting everything... again? Capeshit comics are the lowest form of entertainment. You've got to be a real special kind of retarded to get into 99% of them.
>>80826666
>I would bring him back to his days as a detective
Preach!
>all these people not reading Martian Manhunter
Why are comic fans so stupid? Why can't they read good comics?
>>80826666
Nice digits, bro.
My idea for a MM solo (before Williams started his... his is still really good, but the one I had in my head was different) was that John Jones is a Colorado police detective. When he comes across crimes with paranormal elements that are too big for the police department, he secretly investigates them as Martian Manhunter. So, it's kind of like an X-Files thing, except the protagonist himself is a paranormal entity.
Mine would still have John as a lonely guy struggling to adapt to humanity. He'd be this kind of outsider that is curious about and affectionate toward humanity, but he's afraid of getting too close to anybody because of how alienated he feels, and his fear of rejection. Unlike Batman or Superman, whose existence everybody in their respective cities know about, Martian Manhunter would do everything without revealing himself. Midtown City wouldn't even know he's their local hero.
I'd kind of explore the idea that one reason MM is alienated from humanity is because, on Mars, everybody was connected via this big telepathic network, so you could feel your entire community at once. It was always there, surrounding you, this background noise. Now he's cut off from that, and the feelings he has inside him, he has no way to communicate them or share them with humans, because human brains are fundamentally different and incapable of understanding some of MM's thoughts. Kind of like the idea of epistemic closure in philosophy of mind (Nagel's "What it's Like to be a Bat").
>>80828443
I'd also deal with his PTSD over the death of his family. He'd be this guy with trouble letting go of his past. His apartment is filled with Martian items and would be a recreation of his Martian home. He surrounds himself with these old relics to try to relive his Martian life. And there's always that guilt in him that he should had died with his family. He will always remember how, when his daughter had the telepathic plague, he cut his mind off from her to protect himself, and he feels guilty about leaving her "alone" in her final moment. There would be the whole "fire" thing, too. It wouldn't be the cartoony "I have a nervous breakdown every time I see a candle" or something, but I would play with how fire elicits bad memories in him and how his feelings of pain and loss are tied very much to the imagery of fire.
Though John would be a quiet guy at the police department, the series would have him forced to interact with his colleagues more, as he's assigned some young plucky partner or something.
Also, I wouldn't make the plot "it turns out I'm not the last Martian and there are a bunch of other evil Martians" or something. God, the current series is fine, but did we really need to do that again? Nah, I'd create new villains and shit.
>>80825856
DC has a hard enough time writing Superman, why do you think they'd enjoy having to write for someone with even more powers?
>>80825950
>Forgive my ignorance.
No.
The solo is great.
He's part of the main cast of Supergirl and he's honestly the best character on the show.
>>80825856
His current comic is fucking fantastic.
>>80825950
The solo's amazing. One of the best ongoing from big 2.
>>80825856
Dude's hard to write and outdated.
>>80828984
>hard to write
Sure
>outdated
How?
>>80828984
His solos and JLA stories focusing on him have always been good. He's just not famous to support a long ongoing.
>>80828992
His popularity.
>>80828992
Not him but MM hails from the era of invincible heroes with a million powers who existed just to easily take down badguys in wacky adventures for little kids.
Trying to insert him into "Serious" stories with actual tension doesn't work (unless like on the Justice League cartoon they dial back his powers, something the comics can't do). They have a hard enough time doing that for superman.
>>80825856
Too strong, too convenient. He's as strong as Superman, pretty fast, can shape shift and read minds. It's very difficult to write a story around him. Even writing him as a detective is too hard because how many comic book writers do YOU know who can write a convincing mystery that could even give a literal mindreader a run for his money? If he ever ran into the perp, he could immediately know everything that's going on in an instant.
I suppose it'd be easier to just nerf him but that'd just piss off the fans.
>>80829350
I don't think he was ever meant to be actual Superman level though. He was the Superman stand-in during early Silver Age stories, but he was part of the "core" team, while Superman in those early stories was a deus ex machina that generally was too busy to help, but could defeat any threats they faced as soon as he was involved.
>>80829480
He's suit for Slice of Life type of story the again people want a capes hit movies not every day life of Martain.
>>80829480
>>80829517
>>80829350
These are why he's "hard to write"
>>80828984
>outdated
He's someone who should have been de-powered when they were trying to do that to Clark in the 80s and through the various reboots since. He has a really simplistic weakness: "a book of matches" as Bruce put it in the Darwin Cooke books and a bunch of ridiculous strengths. They should get rid of the phasing, keep him a shape shifter and a telepath. They should come up with a logical basis for his flight or get rid of it; it can't just be that all aliens can fly, but that bridge has probably long washed away. They should definitely get rid of his eye beams because that's another thing that makes him too imitative of Supes. And his strength should be clearly tied to something, say his density or ability to morph (e.g. he can actually make himself more powerful by shifting into something more powerful/larger, denser, etc.)
In any ongoing, if he's going to be a detective, it needs to be a distinct matter (not that Batman's stories are really about being a serious detective). Something along the lines of what they have on iZombie, that he can get snatches of information via his telepathy, versus simply dive into someone's brain for an answer like he was powering up his phone and browsing over to Wikipedia, would probably be good. Something that shows how he would use his intellect and the bits and pieces of knowledge to make connections, solve puzzles, etc.
I like how he manages to have all of Superman's powers and literally more, yet somehow Superman is always the one to save the day.
>>80829730
Superman's weakness isn't as hilariously common as J'onn's. I mean, sure, a lot of his greatest enemies have access to Kryptonite, but it's still less common than a book of matches.
Come to think of it, how come he's not constantly frying under our sun, anyway? Was there ever an explanation for that?
>>80829730
Remember, penny is needed to counter J'onn.
>>80826551
>>80826828
This has a lot more to do with fucking Teen Titans and all these 90s/aught kids associating Victor than anything else. Rather than pick the kid they chose for Wally, they might as well gone all out and gotten a woman of color for the part. Or given the Aquaman slot over to Marella
>>80826845
Probably the same kind of people who no longer go, "Hawkeye?"
>>80829762
>constantly frying under our sun
Comic Book Physics 101
>>80829350
Just look at the two pitches the other anons brought forward. With Superman, you have the "god as a human" angle, which gives many many story opportunities and character interpretation, wacky or serious.
With MM, you have that PLUS him being a telepath and shapeshifter. His identity is fluid and that has been a motor for character driven stories since forever.
>>80826391
that doesn't look to bad
>>80826391
>>80829831
Except when he can wade through Bruce's flamethrower.
>>80829762
>Come to think of it, how come he's not constantly frying under our sun, anyway? Was there ever an explanation for that?
You have a vulnerability to fire. How come YOU'RE not constantly frying under the sun?
>>80829762
I don't know if that's still canon, but in his mini it was explained that it was a psychological effect caused by the trauma he experienced on Mars. At the end, he overcomes it, so if he's vulnerable to fire now, I guess it isn't canon anymore.
But that would explain why sun rays wouldn't hurt him. It's not really "fire" in the sense a camp fire is a fire. He has to perceive it as flame.
>>80825856
I loved MM as a founding Leaguer, i grew up with the Justice League cartoon.
But Manhunter and Aquaman just don't make sense as part of the original 7.
Manhunter is a detective? Got one of those
Last one of his kind who now resides on Earth with amazing powers?
Have one of those, too.
Aquaman comes from an ancient civilization, and tries to adjust to our world?
Got one of them
And he's royalty?
Wonder Woman has him covered on both counts.
Now I don't know if Cyborg was the best replacement.
Personally, I'd want Mr. Terrific as the super smart tech guy; Maybe Zatanna or Doctor Fate as someone familiar with magic. Maybe Vixen for diversity.
>>80830643
I think J'onn could still have made sense for the league, but more in a way of an advisor or independent agent. He could generate intel for more complex problems, doing spy work etc.. Yes, Batman could also do that, but I think J'onn would do it very differently. Telepathy can be versatile in a story. Make him probe for specific thoughts or feelings, sort of like a data scientist for minds.
Make him "shy" with his non-stealth powers and only let those come out if shit REALLY hits the fan.
>>80830643
J'onn works as the complete outsider. Clark barely counts as alien.
>>80830686
You could have that Martian telepathy is never completely "off" even when he's not actively using it. It's a lot less fun to punch someone in the face when you can feel how painful it is.
>>80831038
Nice. I hope someone who will one day be in the position to write a book with MM in it is reading all these ideas right now.
>>80831058
I've put a lot of thought into a MM on-going, his background beyond himself has a ton of potential.
>>80831014
But other characters who are less similar can fill that role.
Diana is an outsider; Cyborg is an outsider because he knows people see his tech and not his humanity. Heck put Metamorpho on the team
>>80830643
The primary difference between WW and Aquaman as a far as being royalty goes is that Aquaman wasn't always royalty and actually leads a nation that interacts with the rest of the world. WW is the successor to the current monarch of a nation that is almost entirely cut-off from the rest of the world.
>>80831142
Do it, man. Get out there and do it!
>>80830643
I don't think characters need to have completely exclusive "niches" when it comes to powers or superficial traits in order to exist on the same team. To me, it's like, who cares if there's overlap, so long as the character interactions and stories are good? And the character interactions and stories were good, so
Goddammit /co/, this isn't that difficult. He's the backbone of the League. The glue that holds them together. The stranger in a strange land who finds a family amongst the Gods of Earth. He has virtually limitless storytelling opportunities. He doesn't need to be tweaked or depowered. DC's handling of the character is bordering on criminal. Long live J'onn J'onnz.
>>80825856
The "I watch Supergirl once so I'm such a huge Martian Manhunter fan" thread>>80825856
>>80829862
>This has a lot more to do with fucking Teen Titans and all these 90s/aught kids associating Victor than anything else.
Emmm NO.
>>80825856
It's a shame, I like a alien superhero who likes oreos.
>>80826699
He does/did, but like all characters that are primarily seen in team books and don't consistently have a solo, they've been forgotten.
Back when he was an actually popular character, he had the whole package: a home city, career, love interest, obnoxious extra-dimensional imp sidekick.
Is Ostrander's MM any good?
Because the New 52 decided that he wasn't cinematic enough and therefore not worthy of getting pushed into a movie like Barry "Meme" Allen or Cyborg.
>>80832065
I'm working on it.
>>80835447
I liked Scorch as his love interest. Also the idea that J'onn has a house in the suburbs.
>>80825856
He's Green and Green is not a creative... Something
I was into the new series but the last issue was fucking bad and I don't know why it was needed
>>80835716
A thousand times yes. Does J'onn justice.
>>80828479
I do like the idea of not being just afraid of fire, because it could hurt him ( it would everybody), but because it acts as a "trigger" that induces the last horrible memories he has of his family and his "survivor's guilt".
>>80835737
I can see why they'd want Cyborg for the robotic Transformers special effects shit and all, but MM's shapeshifting abilities also have great visual cinematic potential.
It really does suck that a lot of the DCnU changes felt like an attempt to farm ideas for cinematic adaptations, though.
