So, Wonder Woman is one of the most inconsistently written characters ever. People don't actually seem to give a hoot about the character so DC tries to change her up every few years to try and make her cooler or whatever.
Sometimes she's a golem, sometimes she's ares' or Zeus' or Hades' daughter, sometimes she can fly, other times she has to use an invisible jet, sometimes she has a secret identity and other times she don't, etc, etc.
What I want to know, /co/, is what is YOUR favorite, or even ideal version of Wonder Woman? What do you think is the best version or depiction of the character and why?
The problem with Wonder Woman is she's supposed to be a female hero.
Then the feminists got hold of her and suddenly they wanted her to be a bra burning female empowerment fantasy, rather than a BDSM fantasy as per the intentions of the original creator. They wanted a Wonder Woman that platformed their crap.
Then the gay feminists got hold of her and wanted her to be their radical lesbian icon, so they wanted more emphasis on Amazonia and living apart from men.
Then the transvestites got ahold of her and wanted her to wear more costumes they'd look cute crossdres- I mean, cosplaying in.
Thematically adding the greek gods to a setting with Batman and Superman is like adding Rainbow Bright to a noir movie, or adding your 8 year old little sister to a play you and your teenage friends are making because mommy said she had to be included, and all she wants to play is a fairy princess, no matter how it clashes with the rest of the world.
So what we get is an odd looking inconsistent sloppy mess of a character where her biggest fans don't even buy or read or like comics and while they all sit under the Wonder Woman tent, they all pretend they're equal fans, even though they're pretty much horribly solipsistic and only want one kind of Wonder Woman without the others. And they want it to make SENSE.
My ideal Wonder Woman would get rid of the Greek Gods narrative, but keep the themes. It'd keep the magic, but lose the divinity. Wonder Woman is now a member of a 'species' of magical golem from an alien race of psykers. The Amazons are carved from the image of a Greek sorceress who had contact with eldritch, magical beings that played fuckshit games with Europeans because why not, being petty assholes for the fun of it is like burning ants under a magnifying glass.
Compliment her setting with Zatanna, Dr. Fate and pair her up for Dagon punching adventures with Aquaman. Make her a tangentially related force to Shazam. Suddenly her roster is relatable.
Azzarellos run on WW is THE difinitve run. That is my favorite version outside of the animated justice league series.
>>80795034
(continued)
And don't just rehash shit like Egg Fu or Cheetah. Take her new theme as an extra-planar promethean from an island of near-human beasts and run with it.
Wonder Woman has always been shit. She was Piss Wizard fodder, and that's a fact. Every single one of her early adventures was just printing off the creators bondage fantasies and rubbing it in peoples faces, and that's who the character appealed to under the guise and premise of A Strong Female Character. It's always just been garbage wearing a bustier and acting strong by standing apart from men.
To me, Wonder Woman has always been at her best when she's been able to visit other heroes who have better origins and more reasonable powersets. She has ALWAYS suffered from, "as strong as Superman and as fast as Flash but better because look she has a vagina" syndrome.
She literally is Magic Bisexual Superman. People complain about Superman? Ho-ly shit. You know the difference between the unstoppable Super God and the unmovable Wonder Goddess?
Supergod has an achilles heel. Yeah, literally, Wonder Woman gets all the speed and strength and flight, plus magic, which trumps Super Science. She is quite literally Little Sistering it in a game of pretend.
The way I'd fix this is keep her invulnerability and strength, but reduce her speed and eliminate her flight. Even keep her magic, allowing her to punch blokes like Supes and ignore their invulnerability in a way other bruisers can't. Now she suddenly has good reason to use weapons and vehicles, and isn't just "all the benefits of everybody else, none of the liabilities."
Supergirl shared the same, "all your strength, no weakness to kryptonite" when the character first appeared, too. We're waaaaay passed this crap.
>>80793467
>GIVE ME BACK PEREZ.
Anyway, any run of Wonder Woman that runs properly mystical is fun. Have her be the leader of the spooky side of DC, I think, that would be fucking awesome. She's born of magic, powered by divine fiat, and female. I haven't seen Morrison's run yet, but the man would have a fucking field day I'm sure.
>>80795034
>>80793467
When she's going around fighting greek monsters and breaking people's necks.
Invisible jet is stupid so she should fly.
I like when people write her as being decisive and not taking shit from anybody.
In the first place, she should be established as a big part of the Trinity. Using Greek god equivalents, I would say the Trinity is:
* Superman = Apollo
* Batman = Artemis
* Wonder Woman = Athena
Without going into too much detail, I feel that those gods fit within the framework of each superhero extremely well. Hell, the fact that Apollo and Artemis are twins and Superman and Batman have 1) pretended to be each other in various runs and 2) are BFFs, is more than enough evidence, IMO.
Wonder Woman being Athena makes sense in a lot of ways. But I feel that the comparison could be stronger.
For example, Athena is the sister of the twins, Apollo and Artemis. In some cases, she's older than them; in other younger. But regardless, IMHO, that should imply that they're off-limits to each other, romantically. DCAU Wondy was arguably the best depiction, since she felt clearly like a sister/mother figure within the Trinity, even when she was teasing them.
In the larger DCU, she should be in positions of power (de facto leader of the Justice League, for starters; a mayor/governor/president in other runs). Themyscira ..... isn't very interesting, to be quite honest. It's not anyone's fault: the home islands/worlds of almost every hero is uninteresting because, by design, it rarely affects the real world. So, "queen of Themyscira" is a bad move.
Within her own stories is where things start getting unusual. in recent years, Wondy is written as being extremely hot-headed about feminist issues: but that's unlike the cool-headed Athena, who only gets angry when her temples are desecrated. If she wants to protect women, that's fine -- just make her wiser about it. Additionally, Wondy is usually the active agent in her stories; Athena generally takes a backseat. It would be interesting to see a WW that's more of a guiding force.
Even if WW were active, based on Athena's traits, it'd make more sense for her "strength" to be based on figuring out opponents' weaknesses.
>>80793467
She's not that inconsistent. I mean, she was a clay made human before 2011, and Zeus' kid after 2011. I don't recall her ever being Ares' kid. She was Hades' kid in the JL cartoon, but even then, he just helped sculpt her.
She didn't fly in the golden age, but then she started flying later. Same thing with Superman. It hasn't been that inconsistent.
I have a pretty specific idea of what I'd want my Wonder Woman to look like, but there's really no point in posting it because nobody reads each others posts in these "how would you write X" threads. It just people wanking their own half-baked fan-fic and TL;DRing everybody else's.
>>80793467
Problem is editorial literally doesn't know what the fuck to do with the character.
So the oscillate vastly between Simone and JMS or Azz and Finch.
There is no middle ground with Wonder Woman it's either good or its shit.
What they need is 10 solid years of adults on editorial and good writers to form a base and say that is fucking Wonder Woman do not screw that the fuck up.
They had a chance with the Nu52 and the Finched it the Fuck up.
She is DC's Thor put her in magical comics with Zatanna, Fate, Spectre and the rest.
>>80797028
I always kind of wonder if it's such a horrible thing that Wonder Woman isn't as consistent as Batman or Superman if we still get good Wonder Woman comics.
Like, what if they chose one course and stuck with it, but it was shit? We'd be stuck with shit.
At least this way, if you don't like Wonder Woman comics, just wait five minutes. And there have been a bunch of great runs over the years. In fact, probably more good stuff than shit. How long did that "Amazons Attack" era last? Isn't Finch gonna be gone too, soon?
>>80795034
She was created by a super-feminist. As in the kinda guy who believes that women are the superior sex and the world would be a better place if it was ruled by women.
I wish WW was more consistently written as if she was DC's Thor without all of Thor's separation from Earth (Midgard).
Superman is the space and cosmic superhero of the Trinity. Batman is the street level. WW should be the mythological and magical. Yes, she can work on any level just like Batman and Superman can, but there's currently no level for her to function on. Build up the pantheon. Not just the Greek pantheon, either. Build up the Roman gods. The Norse gods. Shinto gods. Fuck, bring up all the gods. That falls right into the legacy aspect that much of the DC functioned on before Nu52 and will probably revert back to a bit during Rebirth.
Make her the go-to person for dealing with deities and mystical threats. She doesn't need the mystical and magical know-how of Dr. Fate or Zatanna, but she needs to know how to put a threat on that level down. I say this because nearly every DC hero has a niche that they're "the go-to" for except her. She gets pigeon-holed with the Greek pantheon, but that's even more narrow than most D-listers get.
Simply put, Diana is the mythical warrior of DC. She is more fierce and skilled a fighter than anyone. If you need to push a moon out of orbit? Call Superman. If you need to examine a crime scene? Call Batman. If you need someone to beat down the equivalent of Cthulu? Call Wonder Woman. The dichotomy between Superman and Batman's typical MO is always played up, but Wonder Woman is rarely distinguished like that.
>>80797114
Only to be replaced by [Unsolicited opinions on Israel]
>>80795034
Your idea is shit. As bad as those others were at portraying her character, at least some of them featured good stories.
I like Wonder Woman best when she's like Hellboy, except a classy lady
Hellboy chokes out cerberus and goes home and has beers and watches TV
Wonder Woman ties a hydra in a knot and then has some wine and takes in an opera
>>80795034
You are why comic readers mostly shouldn't be writers. You are so utterly lacking in the imagination needed for it you would spew dumb shit like this.
I am thankful morons like you were never in charge of characters like this. I wouldn't trust you with a webcomic.
>>80797207
The idea that the heroes have to fit a niche is stupid and limiting.
>>80797361
This is often my thought when I read /co/'s ideas on how to "fix" shit.
>>80797406
This, as well.
>>80797325
Only fucking faggots go to the opera.
THEY SHOULD HAVE HER TEAM UP WITH CAPTAIN MARVEL.
>>80797478
I'd say /co/ is pretty good about churning out usable ideas by virtue of sheer quantity.
I was with you right up until the part about Opera.
Some anon once recommended that Ra's Al Ghul be her overarching villain. I still love the sound of that.
>>80798722
I've always thought Vandal Savage would make a cool Wonder Woman villain.
>>80797163
The guy helped make the polygraph which tells you he's full of shit.
I actually like the new reboot that WW was born from man and woman which was a close guarded secret, instead of Zeus creating her from dirt.
>>80795034
>Thematically adding the greek gods to a setting with Batman and Superman is like adding Rainbow Bright to a noir movie, or adding your 8 year old little sister to a play you and your teenage friends are making because mommy said she had to be included, and all she wants to play is a fairy princess, no matter how it clashes with the rest of the world.
That is NOT true since literally anything goes in the DCU and it's basically the same in the MU as well. Just look at Thor and the Asgardians.
It's the same shit and even in the Silver-Age, Greek Gods would sometimes challenge Superman to contests of strength or something, without WW. It's like you don't get the fact that comic book superhero universes are basically the ultimate piece of meta fiction that encompass every genre known to man.
>My ideal Wonder Woman would get rid of the Greek Gods narrative, but keep the themes. It'd keep the magic, but lose the divinity. Wonder Woman is now a member of a 'species' of magical golem from an alien race of psykers. The Amazons are carved from the image of a Greek sorceress who had contact with eldritch, magical beings that played fuckshit games with Europeans because why not, being petty assholes for the fun of it is like burning ants under a magnifying glass.
>Compliment her setting with Zatanna, Dr. Fate and pair her up for Dagon punching adventures with Aquaman. Make her a tangentially related force to Shazam. Suddenly her roster is relatable.
This is actually a good idea for a character but it's not really Wondy either.
>>80795392
>Supergod has an achilles heel. Yeah, literally, Wonder Woman gets all the speed and strength and flight, plus magic, which trumps Super Science. She is quite literally Little Sistering it in a game of pretend.
That's bullshit, since WW has never been as powerful as Supes, plus she's vulnerable to sharp weapons piercing her skin (which you might say doesn't make much sense but whatever).
Just give her to a well known and respected writer for 5 years and press a gun to the next cunts head and tell him to build on what came before. It's a fucking travesty what the finches have done to Azzs run
>>80796727
My nigga.
I've been saying for awhile that DC should be pushing WW as part of the Trinity better and figuring out a specific niche for her.
The way I see it, for starters, WW is a Greek demigoddess. That means that she already deals with mythological matters, not to mention you could even tie her into the New Gods that way. In addition, she could deal with divine matters all across the Multiverse.
She should be more overtly political as well.
Another niche she could fill is military matters. Maybe she's trained as a soldier, both as an Amazon and as a modern soldier, unlike the others. Thus if she needs to, she can pick up a gun and start directing troops or even leading the Justice League if it calls for it.
Another niche she can fill is non-violent resistance. She can try to solve matters without resorting to violence. Not necessarily at odds with the above. Maybe she can only use violence as an absolute last resort.
>>80799806
|thinking being a modern soldier is a good thing
Fuck off. go read marvel then. in the DC universe the army isnt seen as a good thing
>>80793467
I don't know much about WW yet, but recently started reading her stuff from the beginning. If we skip the first "get tied up evertime" years, after 1950 most in the stories she needs to do some impossible feat to save someone. Most of these feats aren't related directly to fighting or defeating something.
I always liked her strong motherly attitude in DCAU and even if she is overpowered (let's face it most of the big superheroes could solo any threat) they let her take punches like a guy. I really like her wrestling style fighting too (which she shouldn't need but looks great).
>>80800160
I have this movie on Blu-ray. Really enjoyed this flick even though I felt it was a bit too short. Then again most DC animated movies are a bit too short in my opinion.
I was actually enjoying the whole Greek Pantheon deal and her killing Ares and such... but then they changed shit again.
>>80797207
>Roman gods
I liked how in the New 52 the main Earth had the Greek names while they go by their Roman ones on Earth 2. Anyone else noticed that?
>>80796727
>Batman = Artemis
Batman is Hades
He's rich and lives underground, not actually that bad of a guy
>>80798722
>>80799105
Wonder Woman has an entire Rogues gallery that no one cares about or uses.
I just want to see more quirky Wonder Woman like in JL:War
Although I wouldn't mind a more femdom Diana
>>80795034
>>80795034
My ideal Wonder Woman would get rid of the Greek Gods narrative, but keep the themes. It'd keep the magic, but lose the divinity. Wonder Woman is now a member of a 'species' of magical golem from an alien race of psykers.
How can someone have such shit taste?
>>80795034
>Wonder Woman is now a member of a 'species' of magical golem from an alien race of psykers. The Amazons are carved from the image of a Greek sorceress who had contact with eldritch, magical beings that played fuckshit games with Europeans because why not, being petty assholes for the fun of it is like burning ants under a magnifying glass.
Your fanfic is bad and you should feel bad
DC is always revamping WW because she has to always be in print otherwise they lose the rights to her.
I'm a faggot who doesn't have a favourite wondie. I enjoy teen diana and I'll always have a soft spot for the golden eagle armor from Kingdom Come.
I haven't read Perez's run. I'm considering killing myself.
>>80793467
I really liked the WW animated movie overall.
>hits like a truck but not invulnerable
>trades punches like a man
>prejudiced towards men but admits if she was wrong
>confused by her feelings about children, family and love
>kills bad guys without hesitation
>classic gold uniform
Flying is debatable, I like her original being able to ride air currents power better. That way she can "fly" longer distances but can't always rely on it.
>>80793467
The fuck you talking about, do you actually read comics?
Batman used to kill his enemies
Superman couldn't fly
Things change over the years, WW started as a BDSM subs fantasy, her weakness was being restrained by men. None of which exists today.
I would want a return to the Marston wonder woman, but more linear. Take the fetishistic ideas he wrote into her book originally and find a way to intertwine that with the Greek society's treatment and perspective of sexuality from the era.
Rather than constantly going g back to the Greek mythology well for villians, create villians based on thematic aspects of wondet woman. One theme would be marstons "loving submission" idea; in which it was theorized women could take the world by using love and tenderness s a tool of submission. So with that, create a villian who takes the society and culture of the amazons on paradise island and is attempting to conquer the world using the "loving sunmission". But make the villain someone who is not from paradise island so they misunderstand how the submission concept works.
It's a good start to wonder woman
>>80796727
>Batman = Artemis
Damn, I wanted to argue, but it fits… Hunts by night, doesn't really like anyone besides his "brother" Superman, is generally chaste. Very swift to act with a vengeful tendency as well, which according to the myths Artemis was famous for.
>Wondy is written as being extremely hot-headed about feminist issues: but that's unlike the cool-headed Athena, who only gets angry when her temples are desecrated. If she wants to protect women, that's fine -- just make her wiser about it. Additionally, Wondy is usually the active agent in her stories; Athena generally takes a backseat. It would be interesting to see a WW that's more of a guiding force.
Pallas Athene's also a patron of heroes, so if we want to run the Athena aspect even more, have her be the one training the younger generation of the league as her secondary office. And have her train a male sidekick every once in a while, not just girls. A Robin who's just completely fed up with Bruce, for example, or something. Have her running teams when the heavy hitters are occupied, since she's a master strategist, have her "General of the Armies" persona come out. Batman can intimidate, and Superman can inspire, but Wonder Woman can /lead/.
Also I miss spymaster Diana, that was fun.
>>80799872
>In the DC universe the army/military isnt seen as a good thing
>Sergeant Rock
>John Stewart
>Captain Atom
>Uncle fucking Sam
>>80795392
>Now she suddenly has good reason to use weapons and vehicles, and isn't just "all the benefits of everybody else, none of the liabilities.
This is my biggest problem with Wonder Woman: Why does she need a sword and shield if she's invulnerable to everything? The "weakness to piercing weapons" is dumb - you're telling me that Superman could right hook her square in the jaw over and over, but she can't survive a stabbing?
>>80804620
>she has to always be in print otherwise they lose the rights to her.
Not true, they bought the character outright in the 90's.
>>80805671
>is generally chaste.
Batman has petted more pussies than catwoman.
>>80806065
>Why does she need a sword and shield if she's invulnerable to everything?
Because girls love accessories.
All she used to use was the lasso, but people don't think it's cool enough now.
>>80793467
Azzarello did the best run I can think of. I wish he could have stayed on forever. As opposed to the shit we have know.
>sometimes she's a golem
You mean doing her whole post-crisis career. Honestly I don't where you even Ares or Hades so that just feels like disinformation.
>>80793467
>OP trying to act like most cape characters are not a mess of contradicting canon and non-canon stories
Get fucked.
>>80806065
>Amazons are vulnerable to penetration
Make sense to me.
>>80793467
I think you should reword your points.
Every comic book character has inconsistencies. Every single one. Differeing origins/powers are superficial compared to the variety of characterisations some characters have had over the years.
A better thing to raise would be, why has Wonder Woman never had any stand out comics? That story line that encapsulates her character?
Out of the most well known comic book heroes she seems to have been cemented as a powerful woman but not a lot more is known about her.
I would argue this is not really a product of inconsistency but one that she is hard to define. People have found Superman hard to define in the modern world yet you can see a single page and go, "that's Superman!" (Picture related).
Batman/Superman can change and be different but still have an air of familiarity. Wonder Woman can't.
Does she represent peace? Female power? The supernatural? Who is she and what does she truly define?
She hasn't had her The Dark Knight Returns style story or All Star Superman. She hasn't had that fantastic standalone tale that really encapsulates who she is.
>>80795034
>Thematically adding the greek gods to a setting with Batman and Superman is like adding Rainbow Bright to a noir movie
What the fuck are you on? Greek Mythos is dark.
>>80799806
>not to mention you could even tie her into the New Gods that way
Azzs run did just that. That has already happened
>>80806505
my sides
>>80795034
Your post reminded me of this
>>80793467
Problem with WW and mass market appeal is that since she has been so completely co-opted by feminists, she can't really be likable while being in character. And as crazy as it sounds, people don't usually buy comics about characters they dislike. They may praise them online, but talk is cheap.
>What I want to know, /co/, is what is YOUR favorite, or even ideal version of Wonder Woman?
Basically, she should be an anime character. She should be exaggeratedly girly and cute while also beating up gods. She should blush. Has WW ever blushed? Might have done it in the 50's, but probably no.
>>80793467
It's not Wondy's inconsistency across her runs that bugs me. It's that every writer that handlea her feels like they need to revamp or ignore or reboot her supporting cast every goddamn time.
>>80809332
WW has a supporting cast?
>>80809305
Anon wonder woman was created by a feminist for feminist all in a attempt to push a feminist agenda.
>>80797325
This is a damn good summary of her character.
I also heard someone compare her to a paladin, which considering the origin of the name is pretty damn appropriate. Divinely blessed smiter of evil and monsters, but with Greek pantheon instead of Judeo-Christian emphasis.
>>80809365
>Anon wonder woman was created by a feminist
No, Wonder Woman was created by a pervert.
>>80809400
No Marston was a feminist as was his wife and second wife.
>>80809400
You can be both.
>>80809400
>he took the bondage of golden wonder woman at face value
>>80805771
He means that DC isn't like Marvel where militarization of capes is more common. I don't know if 616 is bad with it anymore but Ultimate and MCU are really deep into it to the point where it makes no sense (why would Thor work for SHIELD anyways?). The Justice League doesn't work for the government.
>>80795034
>>80793467
The problem with Wonder Woman is that nobody ever knew what to do with her. That tv show she had in the 1970s? Iconic, right?
Wrong. That show ran three seasons and was re-tooled between seasons TWICE, and sold on between networks after the first season. It just wasn't popular; but it ended up in reruns because it had so many episodes that it was worthwhile, as a low-yield daytime show.
Today? It wouldn't even get out of pilot. They made a feature-length pilot for it - if they even did that today it would never officially be released, just as with the 2011 version, because nobody would be sure of it becoming a popular show. The pilot they did make was basically ignored (and even recast the lead) by the series that followed. If it did get released? It would get part way through a single season, be cancelled for low audience numbers, and never be retooled; it's hard to call because the 1967 pilot was made but never led anywhere (and was never broadcast), so maybe they just get desperate five years after a project has failed to take off. Who knows.
The thing is, back in the 70s those low-viewer figures it was getting? They'd probably shit all over Arrow, the Flash, whatever today. Even in the 1990s audiences low enough to trigger cancellation would be several times higher than those shows are getting now. The proliferation of media means lower audiences for everybody, so someone who was niche then would be almost guaranteed to be ultraniche now.
That 1967 pilot? That 1970s show? They took thirty goddamn years to make. Plans for the first adaptation were started in the 1940s; she didn't even appear in animated form until the 70s. Nobody knew what to do with her. Nobody does. You have Marston/Wertham saying she's a bondage fantasy, you have all these other idiots arguing like /co/ about what she is - what she is is a bad production. She's 70 years of development hell. There's nothing to fix; you can only reinvent her against the wishes of fans.
>>80809844
>The Justice League doesn't work for the government.
>Truth, Justice, and the American Way!
You know what executive powers are, right? The JL aren't legislators or judiciary, they're basically cops; they enforce US criminal codes.
>>80793467
I never understood the nerd rage over this costume. It's infinitely less ridiculous than her traditional one. Lose the jacket and it's perfect.
>>80795558
>Have her be the leader of the spooky side of DC, I think, that would be fucking awesome
I'd rather just have Zatanna do that. Maybe kick WW out of the Trinity and try to hype up Zatanna. How many second chances is WW going to get before they realize she's not going to catch on the way they want?
>>80810767
It's insecure.
>>80810755
I still don't agree the relationship between the government and capes is the same in both universes. Especially not in recent years.
>>80806264
I said generally, not universally. He's serially monogamous, as it were.
>>80810767
At least make the jacket blue. We're Wondy fans, we like primary colors, dammit.
Or better yet just modernize the late nineties suit with the black shorts.
>>80809400
It is entirely possible and indeed far more likely to be both.
>>80807500
God bless Alex Ross.
>>80793467
I really liked Perez depiction
