According to Andrew Kreisberg, Zoom is Earth-1's Hunter Zolomon who had been masquerading as Jay Garrick to earn Barry's trust and manipulate him towards his own goals.
How does that fit into the theories so far?
>>80344569
it's been a theory
but does that mean that the man in the iron mask is not jay? or does it mean it's earth 2 zoloman?
Yes yes, but whens vixen returning?
And when will felicity get a costume?
But how did E2 Wells know him as Jay?
>>80344715
They look exactly the same?
>>80344569
Masketta Man is actually Earth 2 Henry Allen who is also Jay Garrick.
Harrison doesn't know because reasons.
>>80344644
Why would you suggest the latter?
>>80344833
No.
Let it go.
When was it Jay and what scenes was Hunter
that makes no sense
>>80344569
Then who did he kill last episode?
>>80344569
>>80345006
>Every mentorship with Barry
>Every hookup with Caitlin
All Hunter.
>>80344569
Hang on, so what about when he punched himself through the chest then?
And why would Harry think Hunter was Jay?
Because we know through Harry that E2 Flash and E2 Zoom have been fighting for a while, and that the E2 Particle Accelerator created Zoom.
E1 Hunter = FakeJay
E2 Hunter = Zoom (masqueraded as E1 Hunter for Caitlyn)
E1 Jay = Probably dead, hence not being able to track him down
E2 Jay = Masketta Man
>>80344569
>Zoom: Hunter Zolomon (E1)
>Jay Garrick: Zoom
>Jay Garrick's body double: Hunter Zolomon (E2) (Killed by Zoom)
>The Hunter Zolomon that Jay showed Caitlyn in the park: Also Hunter Zolomon (E2)?
>Masketta Man: The real Jay Garrick Flash?
I wonder how Grodd's been doing.
If they want to play another actor for Jay Garrick. Zoom captured real Jay Garrick, who used his speed to hid his face. Then Zoom put one of the Jay/Zolomon the hell he is and make him run without hidden his face. Thats what I think
>>80344955
He's right, though.
Number of mentor figures that have duped or otherwise betrayed Barry: 3
>>80344569
yeah, but him and that doppelganger had to be in cahoots somehow or else what the hell?
>>80345323
How rhe fuck is Jay dumb enough to not notice these things?
>>80345621
I kinda think it has to be a different actor or else that reveal is going to be pointless and lacking any real dramatic punch.
>>80345429
Speed illusion.
>>80345608
I hope the other gorillas aren't teasing him for being new and from earth one.
So who was it when they showed E1 Hunter Zolomon? Was it Hunter Zolomon showing her Jay as a ruse? Or was it Real Jay showing her Real Hunter aka ZOOM?
Which scenes were Real Jay and which scenes were Zoom? How could there not be discrepenacies when Real Jay comes in and people are telling him about things he wasn't there for?
How the fuck are they gonna explain this shit?
>>80345809
He was into it.
>>80346048
It was Zoom (E2 Hunter) pretending to be E1 Hunter, I assume
Why are you guys so convinced there are four jays between Earth 1 and Earth 2.
1= Hunter
2= Garrick
Metal face is some other dude
This would make sense if they hadn't shown Zoom kill Jay.
That way Jay the entire season could easily be Zoom (speed mirages and shit) but it makes no sense with the hand stab scene.
I'm so confused.
>>80344569
Kreisberg *didn't* say Zoom was E1 Hunter Zolomon - he just said he was Hunter Zolomon. He didn't specify which Earth he came from. He wants us to think he's from Earth 1, but he could be from any of the Earth's in the Multiverse.
>>80344569
Where did he say it was EARTH 1 Hunter?
>>80346443
He said he was surprised people didn't figure it all out when they showed Hunter in the park.
>>80345431
>>80345578
>>80346048
>>80346164
Guys...I think we need a chart.
>>80344569
Earth 1 Jay: Masketta Man (why E2 Jay couldn't find his E1 Doppleganger)
Earth 1 Zolomon: Just a random guy
Earth 2 Jay: The Flash who got his shit wrecked by Zoom
Earth 2 Zolomon: Zoom
>>80344875
You know it's coming. Holt's spine healing computer chip is going to give her superpowers.
>>80347104
Zoom and Flash are just one person. He goes so fast he plays both characters.
>>80347104
It's incredible how they managed to make a reveal that was totally obvious and yet so absolutely confusing.
>>80344644
Maybe never, and Felicity will get Laurel'swhen she dies.
>>80347355
>Jay: I became obsessed with increasing my speed
>Zoom: Bring me the Flash's speed
Wow, that is some pretty clever foreshadowing
No wonder Barry has fucking trust issues.
Here's a chart with facts that are important to figuring out their identities.
>>80348898
There has to be a reason Zoom put a mask on the POW. Perhaps it's someone that Jessie would recognize and be able to deduce Zoom's identity from, or maybe he could tell her some kind of important secret, or maybe still he's got voice powers that give Zoom trouble.
Shit, there's so much we don't know about these characters. It seems like the only way we'll be able to find the connecting thread is through a lucky blind guess.
>>80349272
At first I thought it was the real Jay Garrick, but Zoom would kill him if he stole his speed, and if he hadn't yet, he'd be able to escape the cage.
>>80348898
My theory is that the Particle accelerator split Jay into The Flash, and The Rival, a personification of his addiction.
>>80349272
>>80349430
I just had a sudden realization. Remember how Jay said that his helmet was an heirloom from his grandfather back when he fought in the great war?
I think that the masked man is Jay's grandfather brought from back in time by Zoom to threaten Jay. How else would he know the POW code, and why else would he be so distraught over Jay's death?
>>80349565
Or Zoom is possibly a descendant of the Masked Man and from the future.
Would also explain why an E2 Speedster would have a costume that mirrors E1 Flash's, it's possibly E1 Flash travels back to E2 at some point later on and gives a younger Zoom inspiration for his costume.
Masked guy is Psycho Pirate.
It's earth two, he is forcibly masked.
Psshh.
>zoom is from earth 1
opinion discarded
>>80349272
>maybe still he's got voice powers that give Zoom trouble.
Earth 2 Captain Marvel confirmed
the Masked Man issomeone they haven't cast yet because they haven't written a resolution for this arc yetwhich is why they have to be in a mask
>>80351569
>Create stories around time travel, doppelgangers, and multiple universes
>Doesn't even make sense in-universe
God damn it why can't we get one good season that makes sense. The episodes are hype as fuck as they come out but analyzing them makes it seem as if they're made up on the spot
>>80351497
>that one time Billy had a metal helmet out over his head and had to goad a villain with super strength to punch it off of him
>earth -2 ha a more retro feel to it
>mfw this turns out to be true
>>80352572
Would WB even let them use Billy? He's got a movie coming up, and golly gee we sure can't have one character in two different properties, because that would fuck EVERYTHING up.
>>80344604
It's clearly Earth 2 Eddie
>>80344644
Vixen's appeared? Arrow? I'm like 2 or 3 episodes behind there
GUYS, WHAT IF ZOOMJAY IS FROM ANOTHER THIRD EARTH?
>>80353083
I've got a crackpot theory about that and it's probably wrong, but it's fun to play around with ideas.
So let's say that Zoom, due to Earth-3 shenanigans, gets speed powers much like the Flashes. Due to more shenanigans, he eventually travels so fast that he rips a hole through the dimensional barrier and arrives on Earth-2 at around the same time its particle accelerator explodes.
But the experience of traveling between worlds without a dedicated portal was such a shock that it caused him to go insane. It also corrupted his connection to the Speed Force, making him unable to grow faster naturally. Unfortunately, the experience made him desire even more speed so that he could repeat it again in the future with less risks, so he starts hunting down Jay and eventually Barry.
I know I'm missing a lot of potential plot points and leaving a lot of holes, but it's just an idea to throw around before tossing it in the gutter.
>>80345006
speed mirage nigga
>>80344569
So here's my theory:
Jay and Zoom are the same guy - Jay was so caught up improve his speedforce that he went so fast it 'split' him into two beings - one that was pure ego and speedforce and the other that was generally good Jay, but way more cautious and a coward.
Isn't it also possible there are 3 Jays? The man in the mask knows POW code, Jay wears a metal helmet from the war, etc. Some other aspect of Jay is locked up.
I dunno. Thoughts?
>>80349516
That's a good theory.
Earth 1 Hunter Zoloman is Zoom. The guy in the park was Zoom. We'll probably come back to this point and see it from his perspective.
Since he was from Earth 1 he eventually saw the Flash and copied his costume. Somehow he got powers teamed up with his Earth 2 counterpart to defeat their twin brother Jay (The Flash of Earth 2), and take his speed. Earth 2 Zoloman posed as The Flash and made out with Caitlyn and stuff. This might have been part of a scheme to get speed of his own. Earth 1 Jay doesn't exist, or died. The real Jay is in the mask.
>>80344569
Needlessly and stupidly complicated
Zoom and Earth 2 in general was a big mistake
>>80359853
I bet you posted this.
>>80359853
Shut up, normalfag.
>>80359878
This still cracks me up.
>>80345890
yeah, and then he carried that speed illusion all the way to his hideout.
