>there are people on /co/ who don't realise this is nothing more than a Mark Twain quote
>there are people on /co/ who consider this a definitive moment for Steve Rogers
>there are people on /co/ who want to see a man dressed in a Captain America costume recite Mark Twain in a cinema
>>79657135
It's a pretty fitting quote nobody seems to get.
>>79657135
>Mark Twain
Overrated.
>>79657135
>>there are people on /co/ who don't realise this is nothing more than a Mark Twain quote
Idiots that had never touched a real booj (just like Bendis and Johns)
>>there are people on /co/ who consider this a definitive moment for Steve Rogers
Murrikans that don't see that that qoute actually makes Steve looks like a retard, and is a "let me be ignorant USA USA UDA number one fuck yeah!" imagen. That makes americans really look
No one can defend that quote without making himself look like a dumb creationist idiot.
>>79657274
What kind of wimp are you? He doesn't speak in favour of ignorance, he speaks in favour of standing up for what you believe. What you believe in generally is informed by what you perceived.
And even if it doesn't, moral judgement, things like "It's wrong to kill people and eat their livers" are subjective anyway, and aren't grounded in objective facts.
>>79657365
>And even if it doesn't, moral judgement, things like "It's wrong to kill people and eat their livers" are subjective anyway, and aren't grounded in objective facts.
Which is exactly why "standing up for what is right no matter what" is a stupid concept
>>79657135
>Calling Marvel schlock 'Cinema'
They are flicks at best.
>>79657443
>a cinema
nice going retard
>>79657438
If you don't stand up for what you think is right, someone else will be standing for what HE thinks is right unopposed and will impose his values as far as his reach can go. And you probably won't like it, because it's not your preferences being imposed, and not even a compromise that takes your preferences into consideration.
My moral relativism is the reason I'm a paragon of intolerance.
>>79657274
>ironfags actually believe this.
are you implying Cap wouldn't like classic American literature?
>>79657443
They are kintso for 2300.
>>79657365
>he speaks in favour of standing up for what you believe
No, he speaks for standing your ground for what you believe even when you are wrong.
That's why is terrible. It the same shit Bush said to invade Irak, it's the same shit you did when you invaded vietnam, "standing for what you believe" is the excuse you used to put dictators in Chile, Argentina, Brazil, Peru, Ecuador, for the support of Israel and interventions in north africa and the middle east.
>>79657597
>when you are wrong
>river of truth
wew it's almost like the speech directly references truth and facts
This is the definitive Cap moment. Prove me wrong.
Are you talking shit about Mark Twain? Also,
>cinema
I think we need to nuke England or something, they're getting uppity.
>>79657576
He wouldnt use a quote that dumb.
>>79657443
He said "a cinema". Someone as cultured and worldly as you are should know what that is.
>>79657611
And implies america is in the right and the rest of the world in in the wrong.
>>79657597
No, he speaks against giving into to peer pressure and bullying. And yes, masses across the world often come up with crazy ideas like "People of ethnicity X are not really people, we should kill them" and "God wants us to blow something up" or whatever. And if you don't agree, no matter what politicians say, or press say, you should stand up and object.
I'm not even American.
>>79657695
>implies
>versus what he specifically says
now I know this is bait
>>79657135
Who was he talking to in this panel?
The basic idea of the quote is fine, it's tying it into "muh american values!" that makes it dumb.
>>79657763
Spider-Man.
>>79657597
>you
>you
>you
someone has quite a bit of pent up butthurt toward america I see. sorry this quote triggered you so hard friend.
your hatred for america is blinding you from the actual message of the quote. in short, you are a retard.
>>79657776
How so?
>>79657476
>Implying I said 'A cinema'
Typical Marvel cuck. Can'the even quote properly.
>>79657135
> tell the whole world --- no, you move
True. We need more people like George Wallace.
>>79657975
you're just pretending to be retarded right?
>>79657615
winner
>>79657624
Nah, just cut financial aid to the EU countries, let the UK deal with it.
>>79657997
And that's the problem with that stupid quote, it means if you believe you are right do what you want regardless of the consequences.
>...a God who could make good children as easily a bad, yet preferred to make bad ones; who could have made every one of them happy, yet never made a single happy one; who made them prize their bitter life, yet stingily cut it short; who gave his angels eternal happiness unearned, yet required his other children to earn it; who gave is angels painless lives, yet cursed his other children with biting miseries and maladies of mind and body; who mouths justice, and invented hell--mouths mercy, and invented hell--mouths Golden Rules and foregiveness multiplied by seventy times seven, and invented hell; who mouths morals to other people, and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, then tries to shuffle the responsibility for man's acts upon man, instead of honorably placing it where it belongs, upon himself; and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites his poor abused slave to worship him!
What did he mean by this?
>>79657997
>>79657997
>>79658437
Yes, the fact you can take a quote out of context and twist it to mean what you want makes it useless.
>>79658965
Indeed, it does.
>>79657135
That's not a Twain quote, retard.
>>79657615
It's amazing how Miller manages to sum up Cap in one tiny panel, with one line instead of some bloated self righteous speech like most authors.
>>79657615
I wanted to rebuttle with him punching Hitler but honestly he didn't punch Hitler back then?
>>79659119
Who not he. I'm a faggot forgive me /co/.
>>79657135
>I don't wanna kill anyone.
>I just don't like bullies. No matter where they come from.
This is establishment enough for me.
>>79657135
>there are people on /co/ who want to see a man dressed in a Captain America costume recite Mark Twain in a cinema
And what's wrong with that? There isn't a single situation where a Mark Twain quote would be inappropriate.
>>79659321
Why not just watch an adaptation of a Mark Twain book?
>>79657597
Do you know the context of tjat panel and did you read that ASM issue?
>>79657500
Damn right anon, spot fucking on
>>79659942
This is /co/ you know the majority of people who bitch about that panel didn’t read that comic.
The quote always seemed pretty empty to me.
Sure, you should stand up for what you believe is right, but it's not like just standing up for it will make the other side back down, the people you're opposing will stand for their version of "what's right" in the exact same way.
>>79657597
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
http://skepdic.com/adpopulum.html
http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/popular.html
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html
http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/23-appeal-to-common-belief
http://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevance/appeals/appeal-to-popularity/
you dumb motherfucker
>>79657763
>>79661559
>>79661577
>>79661589
>>79657597
Please, kill yourself
>>79657135
"If 50 million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.” - Anatole France
If you can't get this autism out of the way, there's no hope for you.
>>79661559
>>79661577
>>79661589
>>79661608
before that
>>79662114
>>79662122
>/co/ sincerely believes that if you believe in something, you shouldn't do it
>>79660416
The morale is a lesson in how to establish one's personal principles, not what qualifies as a legitimate princliple.
And the fact that it's a Twain quote and not an original thought doesn't diminish the wisdom of it. Captain America respects the wisdom of others, that's one of his best character traits. That he adopts the lessons of past generations is itself an excercise in wisdom.
Yes, even Red Skull is a hero in his own worldview (and in far too many worldviews here on /co/) but that isn't a bug - it's a feature: that he stands for something and is willing to lay down his life for that is something admirable that keeps the villian from being pure unredeemable filth who's motivations are too alien to comprehend by the readership.
There's nothing wrong in elevating comic discourse to a level higher than "GoodGuy vs. BadGuy : who will win!?"
>>79662200
>Anon #79662200 sincerely believes that you should defend any stupid fucking idea that goes through your head unto death
Sure, defend what you believe in, but also carefully consider the fact that, if everyone is against your idea, then it might just be because something is actually wrong with it.
It's entirely possible for complete bullshit to become commonly accepted "fact" or for things that are glaringly morally wrong to become acceptable practice, but that's the exception not the rule. For any given person that's set on disrupting the established social order there's about a 99% chance that they're just a fucking nutter and that their idea is much worse than whatever they're trying to replace.
Even if we go back in time and look at shit that has since been utterly discredited, like most early science, that shit was still based on what was the best available information at the time and most people that argued against it were not unfairly dismissed John Snows who might have gone on to father some new branch of science, they were quacks out for themselves or nutters who just had an idea they thought sounded good in their head.
A random idea whose only "test" is bouncing around a single head for a bit is monumentally more likely to be wrong than an idea who has been through at least some degree of public scrutiny.
Individuals are far more liable to come up with stupid ideas than crowds, it's just that we don't generally hear about those stupid ideas because most of them are expunged through exposure to outside influence and even the ones that aren't are still, you know, individual.
Wide-spread opposition is cause to seriously reflect and interrogate your own ideas, it's not cause to blindly double down. The idea that "If you're pissing a lot of people off you must be doing something right" is complete horseshit.
>>79663162
>The idea that "If you're pissing a lot of people off you must be doing something right"
that's not what cap said you dumb fuck
>>79657695
Bull shit, he's saying if you have to fight your country for what you believe in, if you believe it's right then you fight. Even if it's super America
>>79663497
>Implying I said he did
The point is that that idea and what Cap is saying a parasitic upon each other. People who think being contrarian vindicates them often use the rhetoric of "I'M JUST STANDING UP FOR WHAT I BELIEVE IN AND THE MOB CAN'T BRING ME DOWN!" to make themselves believe that they're righteous just for having an idea and sticking to it.
>>79659097
Yeah, that exactly. Whenever Cap goes on some huge ass speech you can tell it's some cringy writer politics at work. Miller does it in a panel and eight words.
>>79663679
But that's just putting words in his mouth because you think there's an unbreakable link. Not to mention I don't think allowing authority to get away with immoral/unethical shit because deferring to authority or mobile mentality is as rare as you think.
>>79664201
>But that's just putting words in his mouth
No it's not, it's adding something much needed to an incomplete sentiment.
No one should give a shit what you "believe", people believe any number of fucking retarded things. What matters is WHY you believe it, something which the Twain quote doesn't concern itself with in the slightest.
