How do we fix him? Is it possible?
Beat the everloving shit out of him with long-term consequences. Use it as the cost of victory in a TT wrap-up because that book needs to fucking die.
Let him lie fallow, recovering off panel for however long.
Figure out something only auxiliary Bat-related to do with him and assign a mediocre or better writer.
...wait, isn't that what they did with Dick?
Nope, can't fix him. RIP Tim Drake.
Start with the idea of "Gotham City wants to fuck Tim Drake" and build around that.
>>79122252
Make him like Oracle. Let him use his brain, he doesn't need to be punching things.
Tim as the resident computer hacker makes more sense than Alfred doing it.
Make him Sherlock meets Batman and have him take the mantle for a year or so, just long enough for people to like him when they throw him back into Red Robin again, (or change his mantle to Redwing, which is a lot cooler.)
>>79122576
>he doesn't need to be punching things
Or at least, he doesn't need to open with punching things. There had better be a damn good reason for three issues to go by without Tim decking some criminal in the face.
INFLATE HIM UNTIL HE'S JUST A BIG ROUND BOY.
>>79122252
>fix Tim Drake
>it's not even really Tim Drake
That character is a fucked up concept from the start.
>>79122490
But that's Dick's shtick.
>>79123230
No Gotham GIRLS want to fuck Dick.
The city itself is alive, (cursed, very very very very cursed,) and is sentient. It calls to Drake. This is canon pre New-52
>>79122252
>Nciezca
>To
>Red Robin ongoing>also starring Superboy
Done.
>>79122252
>Fixing
>Easy-to-forget Robin
Just let it go, it'll get better with time. One day, a real fan will step in and write him better.
>>79122490
Ew.
>>79122633
So Batman Beyond? I don't think that's working, anon.
>>79122758
Unfortunately, true. The only thing is, even before the reboot, Tim was just becoming more and more of a Bruce-lite. I'd like something closer to some of his earlier days.
>>79123292
>The city itself is alive, (cursed, very very very very cursed,) and is sentient. It calls to Drake. This is canon pre New-52
Pic or issue=
Make him oracle
>>79123292
OH, I gotchu now, senpai. I really like that idea. It's actually not that far off from Snyder's vision of Batman and Gotham.yfw Snyder writes a new Red Robin ongoing starring Tim and Cass.The main villain is the Joker.
>>79123361
>>79123378
If it were Tim, Cass, Steph, some of the cast of We Are Robin, Damian, Harper, and maybe a rotating member or two, then have stories referencing things in Gotham Academy we could have a pretty fun Bat Titans type book.
>>79123455
Rad. You know you're awesome if whole city is husbandoing you.
>>79123378
I want it. Give me a throw back to Bludhaven where they're brains and brawn conflicted about to save the city.
>Dick
>Babs
>Jason
>Damien
Anything else is stupid
>>79123755
>including Jason
>>79123755
replace Jason with Helena, and it's perfect
Jason can go back to being a display case
>>79123755
Except that Damien makes Jason redundant in section Edgy Robin.
>>79122490
>"Gotham City wants to fuck Tim Drake"
>>79123821
But Jason is the edgy one that failed, and Damian is the one who learned to rise above it.
>>79123901
Give Damian to Lobdell and I'll see what he'll learn.
>>79123901
There'd still be two asshole Robin. It's fucking redundant. I know Damian fans likes to think otherwise, but Damian is just Jason 2.0. Or Jason done right if want to think of him like that.
>>79123901
Splitting hairs. By that reasoning you can bring back Tim and all the rest. You can find some minor difference for them.
Tim's problem is that DC tried to give the character unnecessary angst in the 2000 by killing his parents and slowly make him turn Bruce-lite little by little. That killed the character.
In the reboot things are worse, with Tim being a smug condescending asshole who seems to despise or find issue with everything connected to the Batman family.
Tim should be the fanboy and funny one, that's where he belongs.
Dick's Leonardo
Babs' Donatello
Jason's Raphael
Tim's Michelangelo
But instead they decided to turn him into a cuntish Donatello and it just doesn't work.
Go back to pre-New 52, but undo all of the bad stuff.
>>79123901
Well, let's get rid of the one that's a failure and has no further room for character growth then
>>79124089
A lot of this. Tim was best when he was fun, mostly cheery, and a little bit awkward about his position as Robin. He knew he was doing the right thing, but he didn't want to be in those shoes forever. That's not to say that he shouldn't have matured with time, but the direction he went was a bad one. A direction Willingham started and Beechen solidified.
>>79124632
Then you can't do a redemption arc with anyone.
It's better for Jason to be a drifter, Batman's failure, his bastard son that's out there and comes around sometimes.
Every Robin is just as important to Bruce as the sons of Ned Stark are to the Stark lineage. You could entirely cut a character but in doing so you cut a lot of potential plot and interaction.
>>79124788
I like your metaphor and it really fits, but the problem is that right now Tim Drake is Brandon Stark: his presence or absence don't change the stories at all
>>79122252
Well Dick, Damian, and Babs and their books can survive without needing Batman to hold their hand. So get rid of those, and let Tim, Jason, and one of the three teenage girls they just let into the batfamily take their places.
>>79122252
Make him the star of Detective Comics and permanently remove him from the Teen Titans.
Firmly ground him as a detective with excellent analytical skills and a total Batman fanboy, but make clear he isn't a tech genius and a subpar fighter by Robin standards, using his staff to pick up the slack.
Give him Kon as his only superhero supporting cast, and move him to a town far away from Gotham.
Reestablish contact with his parents and make them a part of his life instead of backstory.
Make his comics about him developing as a hero and becoming the world's next great detective. Team-up issues with other DC detectives like Detective Chimp, The Question, and so on.
Give him his own rogues gallery instead of just Batman's, or worse, fucking Harvest.
Move him out of Gotham. Maybe to not-San Fran so he can explore his bisexuality.
Establish a new supporting cast for him that includes a not shit Kon
Have him open a detective agency while maybe also working as a computer tech as a side gig
Make him a general superhero fanboy, think Prodigy from X-Men in that regard, except without the learning by seeing
>>79125194
I think the timeline needs to move past it's current point to be significant, in times of Bruce's absence Tim becomes much more prominent and a better character typically. Tim is going to make a good mentor one day when Bruce isn't around. I've always favored the idea of Tim being Carrie's Batman when she's Robin in the main continuity. Tim should be Obi-Wan levels of pure.
>>79125370
This so much. DC shoul just have a book called "Batfamily" where they put all the Bat related who can't carry their own ongoing.
Also considering these characters have different backgrounds and skills the book would grant a lot of freedom to the writer, allowing for detective stories, supernatural or simply slice of life. The only problem would be finding someone good at dialogue and who knows the Batfamily interactions history, but this shouldn't be too hard
>>79123462
>>79125586
Tim and Babs training Bluebird, some of the WaR crew, Spoiler, Cass, and occasionally someone like Gordon or Bruce or Jason or Supes shows up for the new guys to fawn over and be a substitute teacher, each substitute teaching a new crucial lesson ala Avengers Academy.
>>79122252
Crowbar him
I honestly don't know what Lobdell fully did to Tim's character, as I dropped Teen Titans very fast. I heard he became a jerk Olympic athlete who got his parents into witness protection and that he lost his virginity. All I know about Tim is from the other Batbooks. He doesn't show up much but I like that he became bros with Jason.
I thought he was really annoying before the reboot. Things like Ra's ordering his sister to rape him to get Drakebabies (Anyone remember how the artist advertised this issue as "a little something for the fangirls"?), or how he was to pure to get hurt by Azrael. He was such a Gary Stu. Constantly called the second best detective, many girls wanted to make out with him even during combat, and he was so incredibly smug about everything.
I did like his earlier runs where he was the Robin with a relatively normal childhood and a life outside of being Robin.
>>79125805
He was already bros with Jason before the reboot in his Robin solo.
Tim, Jason, Batwoman and Cass with Julia Pennyworth as their Penny Two.
Yay or nay?
>>79125765
I'm okay with this.
No, really. It could work. After being beaten within an inch of his life, he can do some soul searching onscreen and off. Keep him to, at most, occasional sidepanels or lending assistance while he recovers. The writer spins it as a humbling that lets him find his path, instead of walking in the shadows of Robins forever. His awful Nu52 personality traits can get a partial reset with a reason that way.
I do like the detective followup idea, hanging up the cape. The trouble with detective stories is finding a writer that can:
1) Not make the mysteries too convoluted
2) Still make them interesting enough to follow
3) Build an area/rogues gallery that isn't just Batman's existing one or a facsimile
Ever since he lost the actual Robin position, he's been floundering (and he'd gone to shit even before that). I don't see him ever finding a firm masked identity of his own like Dick and Jason have, so maybe the mask just isn't for him anymore.
Boy needs the Dick treatment.
>>79124788
The problem is that Jason still shows up to Batman's beck and call, because DC's too much of a pussy to make him a hard-edged anti-hero. Instead, he's just a whiny, passive-aggressive Robin
Make him into a girl.
Tina Drake
>>79126469
>Boy needs the Dick treatment
Lots of characters need that, let's not waste it on Tim. A new writer will have to suffice
>>79127066
>Jason, mow the lawn!
>Fuck you, you're not my dad!
>...
>mows lawn
>>79127066
Jason's book wouldn't be able to survive without crossovers and crossovers can't happen if everyone in the batfamily hates him. He also wouldn't be able to show up in things like Batman Eternal where people who don't care about Jason still have to read about him if they want the rest of the story.
>>79127863
put Harley Quinn in the book then
Get him and Jason their own Run together.
Take them out of Gotham and Crossovers for at least 2 years.
Let them develop on their own.
Let them come back either when Damian has died, or when they have enough development to fulfill their own roles in the batfam
>>79123361
>>79122252
Make him go out of the closet for once
>>79128254
>when they have enough development to fulfill their own roles in the batfam
You do realize any development would be undone so Tim would be the smart one and Jason the quirky alcoholic bad boy, right
>>79128729
I know. With current DC there's no chance of saving them so they might as well just kill them
>>79122252
Don't buy TT until a good writer comes on.
>>79129126
The Titans Curse makes it so good writers write a terrible TT story.
>>79125428
>Reestablish contact with his parents and make them a part of his life
Oh great, it's a they've kindapped Tim's parents again episode
>>79122252
Centre him on being primarily tech and detective-based who develops his fighting skills slowly.
Have him take the Batmantle for a period, then when Bruce comes back he fucks off to somewhere like Houston or somewhere nearer the West Coast and away from Gotham.
There he becomes Redwing, more tech and detective skills-based, give him more a brawler sidekick/companion and interaction with Question, Chimp and Constantine. With him periodically showing up in Bat titles and Titans books every now and then.
>>79128820
Jason was never good. He always was a failure both as Robin and Red Hood.
Tim was a good character in his own title and YJ until Identity Crisis. After that he started losing his supporting cast and became even more bland.
Morrison made the right decision when he created a new Robin, because now the other writers could have given Tim a new direction. Instead they opted for Batman Jr and here we are, with a redundant character, unable to have anything to make him shine. The mercy kill for Tim is really the best option right now, while Jason can stay alive, but should be kept away from Gotham and Lobdell
>>79129635
>should be kept away from Gotham and Lobdell
But then where would Lobdell go
>>79129662
Cement shoes and jump off nearest bridge.
>>79129696
But his 90s friends would be so sad and at a loss at who to give books to
>>79129662
In the trash where he belongs
>>79129662
He needs to get Scarlet Spider treatment or let him go back to being fucking wingman for fucks sake. If you're not going to let him get proper fucking development , the fucking make the ending of UTRH movie canon and make him dissappear. You can make him an on and off netutral figure that appears once in a while. But whatever they do they should just fucking take him out of gotham and lobdell because that's not only constant murder to his character but also to the batman books as a whole
>>79126469
>staring at the shota ass
Filth
>>79127913
Sure. They can be unbearable together.
>>79129662
He needs to be contained to books that are fundamentally incapable of being good. Give him Wonder Woman.
>>79127066
You can still easily work with that by flipping the conflict. After his initial attempts Jason has given up on convincing Bruce that his methods are flawed and has come to peace with the incompatibility between their reasoning. Bruce isn't going to change and neither is Jason. But that doesn't mean he hates him or wishes ill upon him. He still shows up everytime because no matter how strained their relations the Batfamily is still his family and he's not going to abandon them, even if they're a bunch of self-righteous idiots.
>>79129818
Please no, I'm tired of suffering
Get rid of the shitty swan queen outfit
I haven't kept up with Tim since the first run of 2011 teen titans ended. What have I missed? What's going on with him during the batfamily crossover?
>>79122252
Cripple him and turn him into Oracle
>>79122252
Make him naked and then put him in a room with Superboy.
>>79129958
He is completely useless
>>79127066
>hard-edged anti-hero
They did that for a while, it kind of ran its course.
>>79129958
Nothing.
You've missed nothing.
He palled around with Harper being annoyed by her in the last weekly and is now palling around with Jason being annoyed by him in the current weekly.
He's still smug and arrogant and he's still the "smart one" sort of.
>>79130064
Good god. I was legitimately hoping he would get some sort of development or "soft reset" to his old self under Snyder's hands. Fuck.
>>79130097
Tim is really low on their priority list.
He's there to make sure TT sales don't drop.
At this point, Tim should just be removed. The batfamily is already getting cluttered with Bluebird and BlackRobin, along with Spoiler and Cass who are back. Most of Tim's original personality is distributed among Dick, Harper, BlackRobin, and Damian so doing anything new with him is pointless since it will just be more shit. Do the character some justice and remove him.
>>79129900
>>79130156
>and remove him
Only hacks go that way.
I like Tim current outfit. It's way better than the older older.
>>79130310Both outfits are bad
>>79130156
>Most of Tim's original personality is distributed among Dick, Harper, BlackRobin, and Damian
Don't exaggerate, Harper is the only one who got part of Tim's personality, but in their current state they are both superflous
>>79129761
Are you not?
>>79130223
>implying Tim won't find to look like a Vegas showgirl awesome
Pay whatever money Christopher Yost wants and give him another crack at him. Then ask Marcus To to redesign Tim's costume and draw the comic.
Problem solved.
>>79133563
>Yost
Yost tends to play his stories slow. I feel like they'd shitcan it before he got anywhere.
I don't mind slow, but that's how he rolls.
I'd be all for it, though.
