So, let me see if I got the gist of what the big deal is with Carol Danvers.
For a while, Carol was a sadistic, violent asshole with a drinking problem and right-wing sensitivities. Despite/because of this, she wasn't very beloved by pretty much anyone, as these characteristics made her prone to fucking up everything she was involved in.
Later on, her solo book was taken by someone named Kelly Sue DeConnick (the mythical "KSD"), who wiped Carol's memory (again) and basically turned her into a completely different individual. This time around, Carol is a Mary Sue-ish flying brick who can't do no wrong, wearing a dyke haircut and a pretty lame costume compared to the black leotard.
This version of the character is the one being heavily shilled by Marvel for CIVIL WAR TWO and the upcoming solo movie. A feminist role model for the Tumblr/Jezebel/The Mary Sue/Buzzfeed audience. And utterly boring in comparison to the old incarnation.
Did I get it right?
>>79029142
you dumb, you think those people actually buy the book or read it?
So dumb.
The carol corps are people that dont even read the book, they literally had huge arguments about how you didnt need to read comics to be a super hero fan.
She has a lot of potential. She's bloodthirsty, but aware of and upset by this, so she doesn't trust her own judgement and defers to others to make decisions for her.
It it wasn't being written by Bendis I'd think her role in CW2 was a return to form.
>>79029195
>they literally had huge arguments about how you didnt need to read comics to be a super hero fan.
In a sense, it's true. Marvel is making billions with the movies. If they decided to stop making comics altogether tomorrow, their bottom line wouldn't even suffer a dent.
>>79029285
>She has a lot of potential. She's bloodthirsty, but aware of and upset by this, so she doesn't trust her own judgement and defers to others to make decisions for her.
I can smell the Tumbler Twats making a fit out of this... if they actually read comics, that is. After the Black Widow shitstorm last year, it's impossible that Marvel would do such a thing for her onscreen appearances.
>It it wasn't being written by Bendis I'd think her role in CW2 was a return to form.
The Human Meatball is anathema to good writing, we all know that.
>>79029142
Her original push started back before KSD since Marvel's prominent heroines are either team associated or their media licenses are held by other companies and they realized they could bank on a female-led MCU film after the reactions to IM2. The character herself has been shilled heavily by Marvel for a few years now.
Also despite what /co/ says, sadistic, violent, right-wing asshole with an alcohol problem isn't exactly what she was. She was a fairly unaccomplished superhero with a temper who later descended into, not entirely undeserved, self-pitying alcoholism.
>>79029499
>She was a fairly unaccomplished superhero
Yeah, I forgot that one. For the longest time, Carol was a B-lister compared to the headliners in the Avengers and X-Men. As you well said, Marvel decided to reinvent her (and, as a consequence, erase everything that made Carol interesting) in order to attract the easily-herded "millennial" audience with a Feminist Super-Heroine.
>>79029305
You're an idiot if you think that money goes to Marvel.
>>79029600
She also WANTED to be a bigger name hero, but even when she worked at it she was never able to accomplish it
so it's even more annoying that she became a widely beloved and celebrated hero off panel when KSD's run began
>>79029195
>you didnt need to read comics to be a super hero fan.
Since 1989 there have been eight theatrically released Batman films, 26 other films featuring Batman, 8 cartoons series featuring Batman, and at least 35 video games featuring Batman.
Even beyond alternate media, there is nothing wrong with being a fan of a character's design, history, powers, or anything else besides their comic. Because there are plenty of good characters with shitty comics.
>>79029607
You're an idiot if you don't think the mouse making money from marvel films is going to keep marvel in business indefinitely until they stop making money.
>>79029600
Carol was a feminist superheroine from the beginning, explicitly a women's lib type character at her inception. Honestly, Carol spent her career in roughly the same place as Hawkeye, but no one complains about how Marvel changed his personality in his solo book.
>>79029642
That's easily explained as her PR team doing a good job combined with a higher profile following Civil War.
>>79029607
Especially now, since Marvel Studios is no longer officially part of Marvel Comics and is an independent branch of Disney.
>>79029142
Yes, pretty much
But the haircut is cute
>>79029824
>no one complains about how Marvel changed his personality in his solo book.
You don't know the Hawkeye fans I do. Many of them also have a hateboner for Fraction's IIM.
I wish there'd even been a hint of that PR team in the comic, then.
>>79029824
Are you serious? People hated Fraction Hawkeye for thay exact reason
>>79029142
you only got a third of it.
>Starts out as Lois Lane to Captain Marvel
>Ends up getting powers and amnesia from Accident Involving Cap Marvel.
>Tries to work as a civilian, but she gets Narcolepsy and the Ms Marvel Personality takes over whenever she passes out.
>Ends up having a mindfuck to bring both personalities together, which pretty much makes her a disturbed and angry individual.
>Captain Marvel Dies, leaving her an emotional wreck.
>She fixes herself just in time to be mind controlled and raped by her inter dimensional baby.
>Spends years being used as sex toy
>Comes back and Avengers just shrug it off
>Overcomes this and but keeps rough edges.and lots and lots of the issues
>Has to learn to control her powers going out of control
>Gets comatose by Rogue absorbing her powers
>Comes back from that and becomes raging right wing alcoholic that is just trying to do the right thing.
>Has a broken relationship with Wonderman
>Sleeps around
>Has her Identity stolen by one of her main villains
>Gets mindfucked by baby modocks
>Gets semi raped by Brood
Its a whole lot of rape and mindfuckery that shes suffered, only for KSD to come along and just mindwipe her again, just because she doesnt want to deal with all the backstory.
And this is supposed to make her an EMPOWERED Female.
Erasing all the shit she went through by doing exactly what most people did to her, is somehow PROGRESSIVE!
>>79029824
>That's easily explained as her PR team doing a good job combined with a higher profile following Civil War.
oh I know you can handwave it away easily, but it did her character a major disservice by accomplishing one of her main goals off panel without showing her having to do anything to earn it
the mindwipe was a disservice too, to be sure
>>79029802
Not that guy, but HAHAHA! Disney could shutter Marvel comics tomorrow if they wanted and it wouldn't affect a thing. The only thing that matters is they retain the character rights.
>>79029981
>Wait what happen to comic widow.
I'm talking about Age of Ultron, genius.
>>79030008
Sorry.
>>79029915
That's a lot of shit that is best ignored
>>79029915
You left out the shit with the X-Men and the space stuff.
>>79029931
Should have kept the PR team around. Most everyone seems to be ignoring the mindwipe, as it was mostly unneeded and could have been replaced by a therapist character.
>>79029802
The mouse is pulling the strings. The second it realizes that Marvel Comics operates at a loss, they'll shut it down for good and just milk the characters via movies, cartoons and mobile games. Disney is a business, not a charity. They must hold themselves accountable to their shareholders, not a small gaggle of worthless fanboys, whose sophomoric whims do not translate into profit.
>>79029915
I always hated her as a character. Now I have pity.
>>79029142
Avengers Earths Mightiest Heroes had a way better cleaned up representation of Carol they could have used for the movie instead of just mind wiping her and having her be boring as fuck.
>>79030033
Jessica Jones isn't the same though. Jessica was at worst a functional alcoholic who could get her shit together when needed, Carol was a full-on blubbering blackout drunk. What makes for an interesting character doesn't necessarily make for an entertaining character, much less an endearing one. With Jessica there was that relateability, she went through a traumatic experience, isn't coping with it well, but still manages a semblance of a life and moving forward. With Carol it becomes hard to care when she's on her third mindwipe and second rape and all she's doing is being a complete failure and drinking until she passes out.
>>79030033
They can just have Wasp as the role model Hope or Janet.
>>79030104
Well, Marvel isn't operating at a loss. But yes, all it would take would be for another catastrophe to befall Marvel and Disney would basically shutter the comic side and just use the character IP portfolio to keep Marvel alive in name only through movies, cartoons and toys. Publishing anything, from newspapers to magazines to comics is in a pretty difficult place right now.
>>79030339
It's unlikely that they'd completely shutter Marvel Comics, they'd more than likely just switch entirely to digital and downsize.
>>79030289
Her current status quo is that she's the big time female superhero and that's about it. Also she has a cat and more than likely can't remember her mother and brother.
>>79029142
Just make her the girlfriend of Peter Parker, or let peter fuck her, and we fix everything. Yes, everything.
One of my introductions to the character was the Civil War issue where she lets the registration rip a little girl out of her mother's arms as they take the mother to superjail. I will never not hate the character. It was just too fucking disgusting.
>>79029142
It always comes down to the leotard with you idiots. You try to come off analyzing the character, but always have to bring up how much you prefer the leotard.
Every other Captain Marvel costume is better than the 'tard. Kamala's costume is better than the 'tard.
Bring back hateful Carol, that could be cool, but fuck this fixation on the leotard. Mar Vell is dead, and Monica isn't using the "Captain Marvel" label, Carol has no need to be Ms Marvel, or to wear the Ms Marvel costume, anymore.
By all means, let the leotard influence variations in her costume, but don't delude yourself that it actually matters on its own.
>>79030615
That's the whole fun of the character
>>79030615
>Judging ANY character by their behavior in Civil War
>>79030663
I know, the problem is that it was my first goddamn time seeing said character. Left a very bad first impression.
Marvel really sucks at writing their own characters. The whole company needs to be purged and a strict authoritarian editor like Shooter needs to be put in place that makes everyone actually treat their writing like it's a craft to be worked upon
>>79030748
Wasp would be a good one to use for that role. She's a founding Avenger even
>>79030291
Carol as a blackout drunk was fucking hysterical though
>>79030828
>>79030845
It would just take some creative writers that know how to utilize the concept of Janet better. Batman doesn't have to have the highest power level to be as prominent as he is. Other than Wasp, Crystal would be a good fit for the role I think
>>79030938
Why lived.
>>79029915
>raped by her inter dimensional baby
Tell me more, anon.
>>79031073
Avengers 200 brb
>>79031087
>>79030871
Poor Lockjaw. :(
>>79029824
>no one complains about how Marvel changed his personality in his solo book.
Seriously? I've seen a lot of complaints that we lost Cocky and Competent Hawkeye for "Hawkguy".
>>79031152
That's just an opportunity for a writer though
>>79031276
I'm one of those people. His entire personality was nuked for no reason, and he had one of the strongest personalities in the Avengers.
Isn't superhuman durability one of Carol's powers? Wouldn't it take an obscene amount of liquor to get her wasted?
>>79031164
>baby came to term in 3 days
This is my fetish.
>>79031138
Why are you doing this?
>>79031311
Yes, it's why she takes full fifths straight to the face
>>79031353
Someone ask me..
>>79031351
That's some Apollo shit right there
>>79031285
Carol takes on her greatest adversary yet: postpartum depression.
I really hope this is one of the Captain Marvel movie sequels.
I miss art like this in comics
Next up is the annual claremonttry to undo the damage
>>79031709
How was this rape? He clearly won her over!
>>79031309
>>79031276
In his very first appearance he teams up with Black Widow to take on Iron Man because he cannot stop thinking with his dick.
Clint has ALWAYS been like he was in Fraction's run, Fraction just focuses on screw up aspect more than the cocky bastard one.
>>79029473
>After the Black Widow shitstorm last year
Explain, please.
>>79029824
As someone who pretty much doesn't read Marvel, but was loaned Fraction's Hawkeye by a friend: How does it change his character?
The end thanks for reading
>>78994173
>>79032205The end
>>79030120
To be honest even if Marvel had the rights to Storm I honestly don't buy that they would push her as hard as their pushing Carol.
>>79031987
Hawkeye used to be this man who felt deeply insecure about his status among his colleagues due to his limited abilities, abd because of this strove to great lengths to prove his skills worthy of the Avengers, pulling off insane trickshots in crucial moments, making his character deeply satisfying to experience.
He was always the guy that would challenge Captain America for leadership of the team. Everyone knew he had the potential, but he was too irresponsible in his early years to live up to it, until West Coast Avengers where he came into his own
>>79031059
I AM... MS. ANATOMY!
>>79032246
Why not? She's seriously tailor made for such a role. She was literally raised to be a Goddess and a leader of humanity into the future
>>79032246
Strong black independent woman not pushed?
>>79031815
>Maddy Pryor
Just how many time lost women are there in this hospital?
>>79032409
Alot.
>>79031926
Avengers 2 thing probably
Bunch of twitter feminists got super upset about BWs portrayal in that movie and harassed Joss Whedon til he fled from twitter
>>79031755
Just imagine being an artist in this situation
"Hey, about the annual cover... You only get the bottom 2/3s."
Sounds like a shit deal all around
>>79031987
By focusing on already existing aspects of the character that fans don't like.
>>79029142
don't be retarded anon. none of that shit they got rid of made her interesting, it made her unmarketable which is why she was never a remotely popular character. Shoving all that crap under the rug was Marvel's only move if they want to try to create a successful version of the character
>>79029142
>>79029915
Seeing posts like this makes me want to read all of Carol's stories, is there a definitive reading order around anywhere?
>>79032792
Reed run 50 issues, claremont and conway 25 issues, and busiek ironman.
>>79032817
And Busiek Avengers
>>79032916
This. Thank you.
>>79030938
The funny thing is, that during that time, she was practically fucking anything and anyone.
After a mission, your chances of approaching her for a quick fuck would be super high.
Thanks for the storytime, weird as it was.
>>79032343
In a better world, the right characters would be pushed into the spotlight naturally, instead of the wrong characters to keep up appearances.
>>79032931
I Forgot uncanny xmen.
>>79033174
You welcome anon.
>>79029142
All I actually know about here is that she got punked by Rogue back when Rogue was still a terrorist and for whatever reason the mutant held on to her powers for way longer than normal and went on to be more famous than Danvers ever was. Was the mind wipe you talk about related to that?
>>79032246
> Black Panther's cocksleeve
>>79029915
You know, all this shit could make for a supervillan origin story...
would /co/ read an evil carol?
>>79033289
who's that boy?
>>79032817
>>79032916
>>79033178
Thanks, ill add it to my backlog.
>>79029142
Marvel is scared of the Wonder Woman movie
Their tumblr femishits which is the majority of marvel fans in general are asking a wonderwan marvel
>>79031926
sjws didnt like BW to be "damaged", and quickly shat on Whedon, hilarious because the faggot had been spewing anti GG shit for months on end.
>>79030120
Storm, rouge, psylocke can easliy take that wonder woman role, it was such a same they had to be sold off to fox.
Psylocke is literally a british black widow with powers.
Even Scarlet Witch can take the wonder woman role with a magical twist. I don't get why she was made to be a gothic lolita trash. I feel like she should be a lot more older
>>79032148
Ans this is how the budding friendship between carol and jessica started
>>79033289
Already did and it was pretty great.
>>79030051
A writer ignoring it is one thing, the readers know it happened to the character, they got through it, and grew as a result. Shit, people like Daredevil and Spider-Man, and their entire lives are horrible tragedy interspliced with punching people in the face.
What KSD did was decide that all of that was bad, and wipe it from her memory. But it still all happened, she just didn't grow from it.
>>79030380
Carol is Iron Man tier, but without the super intelligence.
>>79029142
She didn't seem that bad in Alias?By bendis but still.
>>79033660
Karla should have been the new Cap Marvel.
>>79033713
When she goes Full Binary she Surpasses Thor though.
>>79031073
She has a baby who ages in a day and takes her to his dimension to mind and physically rape her
![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/SBbr4Na.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
>>79030637
Anon, it's not the leotard, so much as what it represents. No shitposting, I'm being serious.
Look up a picture of Mar-Vell's costume, and then look at Carol's original picture (pic-related). She has the same color scheme as him, and even the same symbol. She might as well me Marvel Girl.
Then there's the Black costume. Different color scheme, and she has her own, completly seperate symbol, the lightning bolt. That last part is important to this argument, as it really does sell the idea that she's her own person, especially during the Busiek Avengers run where she was called Warbird(speaking of, why DID she go back to Ms. Marvel?)
Come back to the Captain Marvel costume, and she's almost literally wearing a slight alteration of Mar-Vell's costume, with seemingly nobody seeing the irony.
And before you blame just T&A, look at the original costume again. That thing shows even more skin, and I don't think anybody likes this thing.
>>79033861
>(speaking of, why DID she go back to Ms. Marvel?)
Honestly Warbird was too fucking OP, she was shooting Planet Shattering blasts and tanking hits from Cosmic Entities
>>79033792
Does she? I mean, I know she gets a LOT more OP than usual, but before Hickman added at least a half dozen super OP characters, Thor was the most powerful Avenger.
>>79033925
She only Transforms into Warbird when shes absorbed enough Cosmic Energy, its starts a reaction and she starts generating endless energy within, like a Sun, aside from increasing her physical traits to ridiculous levels, she also starts being able to absorb just about any type of energy directed at her and using that to power up even more.
>>79033955
Don't you mean Binary, not Warbird?
Warbird was just her namechange during the time around Bisuek's run, Binary was an actual alternate form with the fire hair and all that.
>>79033911
>>79033955
Wait, I thought Binary was the OP one where her head was on fire, and Warbird was just what she called herself in Busiek Avengers instead of Ms. Marvel?
>>79033975
>>79033994
Oh crud yeah, sorry for the sudden lapse.
>>79033955
She can absorb energy even as Ms. Marvel, she just doesn't do it often in the books. Only reason I know it is because in Earth's Mightiest Heroes she does it a lot, and because one of the first comic series I read was Bendis's New Avengers, where at the end she absorbed Count Nefaria's Ionic Blast and fired it back at it, while quipping "No one remembers I can do that."
>>79029142
>Despite/because of this, she wasn't very beloved by pretty much anyone
I loved her.
I want to protect that smile.
test desu
>>79032792
Some anon storytimed Reed's run last week and uploaded the whole series, start with that
https://www.mediafire.com/?90bf2csiaz0wu
>>79032270
>and because of this strove to great lengths to prove his skills worthy of the Avengers
And people say Bendis ignores characterisation! Fufufu~
>>79029915
Mar-Vell died after the baby rape & coma. She was in space as Binary for it and was one of the only characters not present at his death bed. Had to have the bombdropped on her when she got back.
If anything those details make it WORSE.
>>79030108
S'why I like her desu. She's gone through a lot of shit and is still here. I want to see her succeed.
>>79033289
Civil War 2 out this May! *Badumtish*
>>79034249
>Mar-Vell died after the baby rape & coma. She was in space as Binary for it and was one of the only characters not present at his death bed. Had to have the bombdropped on her when she got back.
>If anything those details make it WORSE.
I saw someone post the page where that occured, but I have no idea where the issue was. Said page also had Carol make an "All New All Different" reference, so I have no idea why Marvel is still using that phrase when they made fun of it 30 years ago.
>>79031566
>sets up Kang as a Phase-ending Avengers villain
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
>>79031776
With mind control.
The purest of love!
>>79034327
Too bad FOX owns Kang
>>79034332
She's also a blue-eyed blonde.
>>79034344
It's been months, and that still pisses me off! The character doesn't need to have anything to do with Rama-tut or the Richards family to be Kang!
Also, people who don't read comics think it's progressive that Captain Marvel, who used to be a man is now a woman (a blue-eyed blonde rape victim and former alcoholic). Even though we had a strong black woman who was leader of the Avengers and a Lesbian before.
>>79034383
The lesbian was a founding member of the Guardians of the Galaxy too, don't forget.
>>79034383
Do they have cats anon? I don't think so
>>79034408
To be honest, that was under the influence of mind control, so I'm not sure that's a plus per se.
>>79034445
She was right there with Peter at the start when he was suggesting it to Rider, before he went to anyone else. I don't think she was mind controlled.
>>79032792
>>79033367
>Marvel Super Heroes v1 #12-13 and Captain Marvel v1 #1-18 (although if you get bored of it skip to #18)
>Ms. Marvel v1 #1-23
>The Avengers issues in this thread
>Uncanny X-Men v1 #162-167
>Marvel Super-Heroes v2 #10-11 (aka Ms Marvel #24-25)
>Space Jammers I guess? Haven't read.
>Avengers v3, haven't read
>House of M maybe, haven't read
>Ms Marvel v2
And desu KSD's 1st run, since it's before the mindwipe and throws back to a lot of this history.
>>79033861
She sucks as her own thing though. Only salvageable when she has the Captain Marvel legacy to fall back on. And I say that as a a fan.
Teebeehaitch that's a large part of why Marvel chose her, and still would above Storm, Rogue, Sue etc.. She represents an entire band name on her own.
>>79034279
>but I have no idea where the issue was
I think it was a Marvel Fanfare issue. It was a backing story at any rate.
Don't think I saved that page, but speaking of shit in that issue that's relevant today this panels from it.
>>79034383
Carol's the more relevant in the comics pham, even before her big push. Plus she predates both of them.
Also FUCK Moncia as a Captain Marvel, she got that name from a drunk hobo and wasn't even familiar with Mar-Vell.
>>79029142
>For a while, Carol was a sadistic, violent asshole with a drinking problem and right-wing sensitivities. Despite/because of this, she wasn't very beloved by pretty much anyone, as these characteristics made her prone to fucking up everything she was involved in.
That was the era when she was written by Mark Millar and Bendis. Nobody wants to go back to that.
>>79034922
>Mark Millar wrote Carol
Did she even do anything of note in the Civil War mini? Never read it.
The sad part is, there's so many interesting stories you could have done with the old Carol, but they chose the one road nobody wanted.
>>79034922
Anon, Busiek was the one who wrote her with a drinking problem. Her violent and sadistic tendencies came from Reed's run, although the sadism mostly came up when she was killing Skrulls.
Why is it that I find Rogue so interesting but can't seem to give a fuck about Carol no matter what they do with her? The character just seems so lackluster. If they made the Cap Marvel character in the the movie Rouge but just called her Carol l think I'd be OK with that to be perfectly honest because I don't think I could watch a whole staring any of the official Carols.
>>79030339
Actually, that might be good, as it's quite possible Disney would let other countries make their own Marvel stories, the same way they do with Disney comics.
And we all know Italian Disney Comics are the best.
>>79032193
Fuck, that was heavy.
>>79035038
I just miss the time when all villains called her fat for no reason. That was hilarious. I really wanted to see her flip her shit over that at some point.
That said, old Carol basically seems like a female Rick
>"Come onUURP guys we gotta... blarp, we gotta fight some fuckin Skrulls guys"
>"Blurp"
Drunk Whore Carol was the best. 10/10 would date and help her with her alcohol issues.
>>79029142
The real problem was that she'd often get drunk then crash cars.
>>79031152
Crystal is hilarious, in that her power is literally being everyone's waifu.
You think I'm joking? She's married Ronan, had a kid with Quicksilver, was Johnny Storm's old flame, and she also was the Sentry's girlfriend. She's easily the most attractive Inhuman (Though I like Medusa), and her powers are also the least body-altering. Her 'control the elements' thing basically makes her magical girlfriend.
>>79034116
This
>>79036359
>and she also was the Sentry's girlfriend
Only because Sentry took one look at her and retroactively wanted her to have been his girlfriend.
...So yeah that bolsters your point, she's very desirable.
>Though I like Medusa
dam STR8
>>79033571
Scarlet Witch was a teenager/young adult when she joined the Avengers. Then aged there and became one of the core females.
>>79033289
With dick in hand.
>Captcha: WOOD 13000
>>79031728
>>79032193
Shit this is worst than reading the description. I just assumed the rape was silver age style crazy that no one really thought of the ramifications.
>>79036843
In 1980’s Avengers #197, writer David Michelinie revealed that Carol Danvers was pregnant…
>>79036876
In #199, the rest of the Avengers find out and even though her pregnancy is pretty clearly unnatural (as she has matured four months just since Wanda learned of her pregnancy), the Avengers are pretty thrilled for her…
>>79036889
The next issue (which was co-written by Jim Shooter after Michelinie’s original plans for the baby were changed), she gives birth. The Wasp is shocked to find that Ms. Marvel is not happy about her body being used by some unnatural event… shooter shotdown carol baby original plans.
>>79036560
Weren't a few women revealed to have been with sentry or was that just crystal and rogue?
>>79036359
They seem to be getting her out of that trend jn All new Inhumans, unless she fucks Peter in chapter 5.
>>79029142
You should teach us all how to post without bias.
>>79031152
They are working on her and medusa, better three horses running than one.
>>79037503
Only because whatever idiot Marvel execs are throwing a shitfit with the MCU not having the X women live action rights. It's not a bad thing as it highlights how underdeveloped so many Marvel women were. I can barely think of much characterisation Crystal has had other than Johnny Storm & Quicksilver's cock sleeve.
how about some karla vs carol war of marvels story time 42 to45
>>79037875
bump
>>79037965
>bumping a thread that bumps itself
Why?
>>79029142
>who wiped Carol's memory (again) and basically turned her into a completely different individual.
It's kinda funny, they're basically parading around a hollow shell and calling it progress.
>>79029285
This is basically Lancelot's characterisation in The Ill-Made Knight.
>>79029824
>the same place as Hawkeye, but no one complains about how Marvel changed his personality in his solo book.
Because anytime someone complained, they were met with cries of "oh you hate fun".
