Why doesn't X-23 get any crap for taking the Wolverine mantle (compare to Jane-Thor)?
Her claim to the mantle is far weaker than Janes as she wasn't even particularly close to Wolverine
>>78793932
>Why doesn't X-23 get any crap for taking the Wolverine mantle
... New to /co/?
>>78793932
She does, but by and large most people don't really give a shit about Logan.
>>78793932
Because she is away from everyone who would judge her and only hang out with new people ( genesis and iddle barely know her )
Because X-Men isn't MCU and this board is full of MCU shills
Same reason literally any X character was more popular than Thor prior to the MCU
>isn't particularly close to wolverine
>is his female clone
Bro u kidding me?
>>78793932
A few reasons.
A) Thor is a name. Jane could have been Jane Foster, God of Thunder, but they needed the name recognition or the book wouldn't have sold. Wolverine is a title. Laura didn't call herself James or Logan.
B) X-23 already had the powers and abilities of Wolverine. She didn't need them bestowed upon her like Jane.
C) X-23 is (or was) demonstrably different in personality from Wolverine. Jane doesn't really have a distinct personality anyway.
D) X-23 was established as a superpowered person since her inception. Jane was just a love interest. They didn't even go the Spider-Gwen route and make it an alternate Jane who got Mjolnir through some plot convenience. She just got it 'cause plot I guess.
E)People are more upset that Taylor has just thrown out X-23's previous characterization in favor of her just being a "normal teenage girl" than they are at her wearing the yellow spandex.
>why arent people mad that cute female wolverine became wolverine for a while
>>78793932
>Her claim to the mantle is far weaker than Janes as she wasn't even particularly close to Wolverine
She's literally a clone of him.
>>78794231
F) Thor didn't ever really seem like a legacy character. He's not a superhero, he's a god. He didn't have sidekicks or wards or anything. Wolverine was practically crawling with little girls and angry boys who all wanted him to pay attention to him, so it's a natural progression that when Logan got tired of this shit or finally died for realsies that one of those little brats would take up the mantle.
G) Jane hadn't really been a part of Thor's story for a while, so it's weird to bring her back into the spotlight just to hand her the hammer.
H) Isn't Jane just doing the same shit Thor did but now with a vagina? Even though Taylor's made Laura sound like samey garbage, at least he's exploring a story that's distinct from Wolverine's usual fare .
>>78794420
>She's literally a clone of him.
and?
She's not close to him so didn't deserve to inherit it
Sabertooth or Dog would have made more sense
Wolverine is dead, the only time it makes sense for a character to assume anothers title
Thor isn't
>>78794488
>She's not close to him so didn't deserve to inherit it
he is literally her father both genetically and legally after he adopted her
you're dumb and your shit's retarded
>>78794488
>sabertooth should've been the bew wolverine
Fucking wut?
>>78794488
>She's not close to him
Yes she was or at least as close as two emotionally stunted people could get to each other.
>>78794516
>I don't read comics
>>78794488
Kitty should've been the new wolverine.
>>78794532
>bluhh bluhh I'm a retard please fuck my face
as you wish
>>78794532
He does adopt her though. I think it was in her solo series.
>>78794441
I) X-23 didn't fight a strawman in the most childish response to criticism in reent years of comics
>>78794586
>I think it was in her solo series.
Wolverine is significant to her but she is nothing to wolverine as she does not make an impact on HIS series
>>78794582
>tfw we're so far away from a Laura who talked like Laura
>tfw Liu's run wasn't even that good but still gold compared to what came after
JUST
>>78794698
>Wolverine is significant to her
and that's all the reason she needs to take his mantle.
>>78793932
/co/ doesn't like Wolverine in the first place so they can't be fucked to care about his female clone taking over for him.
>>78794698
>moving the goalposts
you lost, get over it
>>78793932
Because we don't care about a woman taking up the mantle. Nobody would give a shit if Sif was running around with Mjolnir having excellent adventures.
We give a shit because Whor is extremely badly written. Everything to do with her being Whor, from her being worthy to the way her books are basically long tirades about how awesome it is that there's a female Thor now, is shoddily written. She is forced to the maximum degree.
X-23 already has Wolverine's powers and was pretty close to him before he copped it. But you'll notice, we complain about bad writing in her book, too - every thread about the new Wolverine is basically a few hundred people saying how poorly written she is now and how she's like a totally new, boring character. BUT, her being Wolverine doesn't feel as forced, and isn't given as much inane focus as the fact that Jane is Thor is, so we don't complain about that.
>>78794722
That's like Bane becoming Batman
>>78794582
That's too kawaii, nigga.
>>78794764
No it's not, that'd be like Sabretooth becoming Wolverine. This is more like Jean-Paul Valley taking up the mantle. OH WAIT, THAT HAPPENED, but you don't know because you DON'T READ COMICS.
>>78794764
Bane becoming Batman? Ha! What a preposterous suggestion!
>>78794225
I think he meant like friends or comrades.
But Laura's whole thing was she never wanted that in the first place and wanted to be more than his clone.
>>78794764
>Bane is a test tube baby of Bruce Wayne's
Retard.
It's more like if Batman had some kind of genetic descendant that was created independent of his will who took up his mantle.
But that would never happen because only Marvel would do such a thing, right?
>>78793932
>she wasn't even particularly close to Wolverine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4AtBBVZ73U
>>78794816
X-23 and Wolverine used to have some cute and sad times together.
>>78794913
Now that I think about it, how come I've never seen any fanart of X-23 and Terry?
>>78794949
>Wolverine appear in X23 solo book because people won't buy it otherwise
>>78794949
>>78794913
>Bane is a test tube baby of Bruce Wayne's
WAIT, SINCE FUCKING WHEN? I'll admit I gave up on DC after Nu52 turned out to be nothing but shitty failed comic run after shitty failed comic run. And after the disasterpiece that was The Culling, I gave up on DC altogether.
Is this actually a thing now? I mean, I heard that the Lantern Emotional energy was now a fossil-fuel allegory and is a finite resource, but Bane being Batman's test-tube baby?
Is this actually a thing, or just retarded enough to be a Nu52 storyline?
>>78795008
>>78794998
It was her second origin mini to explain how she got to the X-Men. He doesn't appear until the last issue to connect it to the beginning of Kyle/Yost's New X-Men.
The problem is that it's already OOC for her to pick up the mantle and just be "girl wolverine", so people tend to hate the writers who suggested this idea more than the character. And Wolverine is dead so who cares? Old Man Logan being in 616 is another fuck up, the best part about the book was the world building. So all we have is just an old wolverine.
>>78795010
No, you misread the post.
>dumbass says X-23 taking the mantle after Wolverine is like Bane taking the mantle from Batman
>anon sarcastically responds that for that to be true, Bane would have to be a clone or test tube baby of Bruce Wayne's, as Laura is to Logan
>anon then points out that Bruce Wayne already had an X-23-esque child who replaced him in Terry McGinnis
>>78795093
>taking comparisons this literally
sign of autism
>>78795129
>pointing out how retarded and weak a comparison is is autism
DAMAGE CONTROL
DAMAGE CONTROL
DAMAGE CONTROL
>>78794670
J) All-New Wolverine is a markedly better comic and does not require to bend some of the most high-profile characters to be completely out of character.
K) The comic is not full of people falling over themselves to congratulate Laura on being semi-competent while having a vagina.
>>78795170
>does not require to bend some of the most high-profile characters to be completely out of character.
Except for the main character, but whatever I guess.
>>78794998
>Wolverine appears in [character] solo book because people won't buy it otherwise
That was a huge thing in comics back in the day, I believe that whole phase was called "The 90s"
>>78795186
Nigga she's never really had a character and you know it. Every writer has written her completely different from the previous one
>>78795215
Bullshit. Until Bendis took over, she had an extremely consistent characterization. Don't blame your inability to see that on the character.
>>78795186
Dude, I know Laura is not in character, but have you SEEN Odin, the All-Patriarch over at Jane Thor?
why are people posting in this thread?
I haven't seen such blatant trolling and shitty bait in my entire life
>>78795241
I try to avoid terrible comics, so no.
>>78793932
>she wasn't even particularly close to Wolverine
lol, neo/co/ everyone
she is basically a Wolverine
>>78795170
can we get to the Z ?
>>78795255
It's not the bait on the OP that counts, it's the shitposting INSIDE the thread.
>>78793932
Logan was not removed from Wolverine brand for being at the peak of popularity. Quite the contrary, he was selling around 20k.
Thor got changed after well received story.
>>78795170
L) Laura is hotter.
>>78795170
L) Laura has a fanbase, unlike Jane Foster
>>78795357
>>78795362
dayum
>>78795362
M) X-23 actually mattered to at least some X-Men comic in the last 10 years. When the fuck was the last time Jane ever mattered to Thor before she became Thor?
>>78795215
The problem everyone complained about was that each subsequent writer would reset her character arc back to the beginning, not that she was written inconsistently.
>>78794913
>>78794582
>OP so rekt he can't even respond to these posts
BTFO
T
F
O
>>78795406
N) X-23 is more of a character than Whor ever was
>>78795406
N) Logan died, he wasn't told a secret not even the writer knows that made him drop his claws.
>>78795444
O) OP is a faggot
P) Logan died, he wasn't told a secret not even the writer knows that made him drop his claws.
Q) Laura is hotter.
>>78795444
P) X-23 doesnt have editorial push and is better than the new comic of thor
>>78795491
R) X-23 doesnt have editorial push and is better than the new comic of thor
S) X-23 like patting on the head
>>78795357
>>78795362
Allow me to rephrase that into the underlying valid point.
L) Laura is easily on the top 3 shortlist of people with a legitimate claim on the Wolverine mantle, while in Thor they presented a list with a dozen names that Jane Foster did not make.
If Enchantress is a better call than you are, you have no fucking business picking up that hammer.
Also still mad nobody used Gunnhild since Journey into Mystery.
>>78795514
*likes
damn phone
>>78795240
Gage wrote her as autistic, Claremont wrote her as a child, Liu wrote her as apathetic towards everything that wasn't Gambit, Bendis made her act like a valley girl, not to mention K&Y made her act like a cold blooded killer in X-Force which didn't match the way they had written her in NXM and her solo minis.
Stop being a waifufag
>>78795426
Because no one knows what to do with her, cause frankly, no one cares. Every time they try something new with her, no one gives a fuck. Which probably says more about the character
>>78793932
I think the rage on Jane-Thor is quite immoderate, still X-23 has some redeeming points. Perhaps especially in contrast to Thor. Hey, at least there's no hamfisted mystery like "Who's Femthor?" and instead of half the MU being "You go. Girl. Girlpower!", even friends doubt her a little and she still needs to earn some respect (which she does).
>>78795589
There's no way Taylor would write a scene where Lady Deathstrike surrenders out of respect for Laura being a woman.
T) Logan sucked for a long while, it's refreshing to see someone not tainted by Avengers so far.
>>78795553
>Gage wrote her as autistic
>Liu wrote her as apathetic towards everything that wasn't Gambit
>K&Y made her act like a cold blooded killer in X-Force which didn't match the way they had written her in NXM and her solo minis.
These are all so blatantly wrong it makes me wonder how you could've read these comics and still come out with these opinions.
Look in this very thread.
>>78794949
>>78795008
>>78795048
The X-23 depicted here is the more or less the same as this one: >>78794582
You can tell that these are supposed to be the same character from just the writing.
Obviously no two writers are going to write the same character in 100% the same way, but from Kyle/Yost until Bendis, she had consistent traits: she was stoic, direct when it came to delivering her opinion, more afraid of herself and her past than anything else, and secretly very caring of her comrades, to say the least. She had a distinct speech style that was maintained throughout different writers' runs.
The X-23 in All New Wolverine is not like this. She's just an ordinary teenage girl and there is nothing interesting about her at all.
>>78795741
>Aaron ruins Wolverine with lines like "you killed the only one who mattered"
>Aaron ruins Thor
Hmm.
>>78795801
The only thing that should be criticized is Laura's trigger scent that got retconned back and forth
>>78795656
Man, I just remembered that bit in Messiah CompleX where Hellion gets eviscerated by Lady Deathstrike. X-23 waits until they meet again and then beats the shit out of her for hurting her husbando in a really triumphant moment. Deathstrike didn't say "Well you're a GIRL Wolverine so I'm gonna just apologize and go home." They were both warriors fighting until one of them was dead in the snow.
But I guess Kyle and Yost actually care about the characters they write.
>>78795834
Not a coincidence
>>78795868
well, why do you think people loved NXM?
>>78795865
Yeah, having the trigger scent suddenly be capable of being used on anybody was a weird decision by Liu, especially when Kyle and Yost had gone to great lengths to demonstrate that it was something forced into Laura's psyche by almost continuous torturous pavlovian association and the scent itself wasn't anything special.
U) X-23 had numerous mini-series and series, before she became a Wolverine. Jane Foster was only a What If hero before Thor
V) Before she claimed to be a Wolverine, you had Death of Logan, which dealt with possible people related to Logan. Then you had Wolverines, which she was part of, meaning it was an organic development, instead of out of the blue.
W) She sounds like a logical choice. The world needs a wolverine, and who else is supposed to be a Wolverine? Daken?
X) X gon give it to ya, even if it's a pussycat, and especially if it's a pussycat
Y) Because why should we be angered over that?
Z) Because there is nothing over to rage for, as shown in previous arguments
>>78794231
>>78794670
>>78794761
>>78795170
>>78795357
These, and Laura never said ''Who knew being a clone with homicidal tendencies is fun'' like Whor did with her cancer.
>>78796091
or who knew traumatic memories would be so fun
or who knew losing your mind due to trigger scent could be so fun
>>78796110
>who knew being abused your entire life, forced to kill the people you love, and being hunted relentlessly by a facility of amoral psychopaths and supersoldiers while never being able to truly form attachments to others in order to avoid endangering them could be so fun
-X-23 by Jason Aaron
>>78796057
WE DID IT REDDIT!
>>78796275
rude
>>78796057
>The world needs a wolverine
The world needs a wolverine like it needs a Funny Bunny
>>78796440
in other words, desperately?
>>78795215
Okay, look, not even a fan of the character.
But I have been reading X-Men stuff for a long time, and I know that X-23 is BY FAR one of the most consistent 'new' characters in cape comics. Her progression from her minis, to the teen X-Men stuff, to X-Force, had a pretty neat arc to it. I can't say all that much about her twenty-whatever issue solo, but from the pages posted here, she seems to have continued consistently from X-Force.
I believe you have a have case of doesn't read comics.
It wasn't as hamfisted I'd say. She's his daughter and Logan was fucking dead for this to occur.
That outfit looks like ass though, always fucking hated the cowl.
>>78796743
more like repeating memes like a parrot, just like Jean Grey resurrection, despite her dying only once, and still being dead
I would like to speak out against the notion that Laura is behaving like a normal girl.
Yes, she does not appear to be held together by shoestring and an iron will anymore, but she is still kind of awkward.
Yes, she gives valid responses now, but everything she does has a direct bent to it.
In a "normal" girl her age, you would expect more words, more expressiveness.
I do agree that the contrast is to earlier iterations is a sharp one, but if one expects that she would learn culture and social interaction, then ANW seems a logical step towards normalcy.
Not a perfect one, mind you. But my thesis could just as well fall apart at the first sustained conversation since her talking has been rather perfunctory so far.
>>78796837
Weapon X Program shill spotted
>>78796790
>She's his daughter
>>78796837
Are you seriously saying this sounds like X-23?
The tragedies of Whor are:
1. Her book is just soapboxing. There's no story or real writing worth a damn. It's just stupid bragging about how progressive it is to have a femThor.
2. FemThor is, for some reason, not Valkyrie or Sif.
The tragedies of X-Twenterine are:
1. She's been changed into a totally unrecognizable, totally boring character by Bendis, and that characterization has stuck for some inane reason.
2. She should really be in some kind of superpowered espionage thriller.
>>78796886
She is.
See: >>78794582
>>78796895
How Kyle/Yost would have written this scene.
>Laura: Do you have eyes on the shooter?
>Warren: No, but I'm sure they're still in the tower somewhere.
>Laura: Okay. I will locate them.
>*snff*
>Warren: Um... you sure you want to take that off? You look pretty conspicuous.
>Laura: The chances of stealth infiltration have fallen to approximately 1%.
>Warren: Also, to them, you now look like you're talking to yourself.
>Laura: Yes.
>>78795932
>was a weird decision by Liu
I doubt it was a decission. It was more like Liu never fully understood what Trigger Scent even is. Which is just a random scent with no specific properties.
The only thing that made it special is Laura's conditioning. Liu saw that and thought it was a magic rage serum.
Pretty much the only real thing Liu got wrong about the character.
>>78797044
You do realize that we cannot, under no circumstances, ever have any nice things, do you?
>>78797084
It's a shame, too, because trigger scent was a cool concept. Logan was always prone to berserker rages that made him stronger and faster, so the Facility decided to just weaponize that aspect of his mutant ability while also making use of his enhanced senses.
>>78797107
Not since 2010, anyway.
>>78795426
>Innocence Lost: Laura loves her mother. Starts to have a mind of her own. Kills with little discretion, but starts drawing lines.
>Target X: Laura starts to care about her aunt and cousin and opens up to them. Kills without much discretion when she sees it necessary.
>New X-Men: Laura is reluctant to open up to all these people she has no association with. Starts to be a bit more reluctant about killing and her world view shifts a bit.
>X-Force: Laura is isolated from all her friends and thrown back into the situations she trained her entire life for. Kills indiscriminately again, but trying to align her training of "fulfill the mission you are told at any cost" with her slowly emerging conscience, feelings and expectations of others towards her, confuses her completely to the point where she almost kills herself.
>X-23: After X-Force, Laura is completely in turmoil and withdraws from most people. She starts contemplating on all the people she killed willingly and unwillingly and tries to coalign all that into one personality. She travels the world and becomes a bit more open.
She still very much kills, but with a lot more reflection about it.
>Avengers Academy: In the environment where killing is generally looked down upon, she tries to mostly stay away from it too. She bonds with some of the other kids, especially Finesse who eventually betrays her trust, by using her unconscious body to kill someone.
Truly her story has so many resets, holy shit.
>>78797557
> She bonds with some of the other kids, especially Finesse who eventually betrays her trust, by using her unconscious body
lewd
>>78797633
I would've liked Finesse to turn into her nemesis.
Finesse being a person that was headed towards becoming an evil emotionless killing machine
and X-23 being an evil emotionless killing machine that was headed towards becoming a person.
Of course it was never going to happen and especially not now anymore, after we had 3 books in a row that completely ignored her personality.
>>78793932
Because she is his legacy, and it's a natural succession.
What does get me mad is why the fuck is Old Man Logan in the main universe? What the fuck is the point of making Laura Wolverine if they literally just loophole in another Wolverine. It makes her taking up Logans mantle moot when there is another one running around. Gives the impression that she isn't good enough to be Wolverine, and they needed a Logan just in case. This could have been a good time for her to get the limelight, but now she's just gonna be a shadow to another Wolverine.
>>78794709
Liu's run would've been great if she had just given Laura interesting things to do.
She had the character down to a T and did important work with her. But all the stories surrounding that character work were all just unimpressive and forgettable.
>>78796837
It's not just the dialogue.
The comic starts with her getting a call from Alchemax telling her, they lost control of the child soldier clones they made from her DNA.
I still don't understand how any one of them is still alive.
And I'm completely baffeled by the fact that she tried to go along with it at the start.
She does slightly but for the most part because it's both expected, not in your face, and there's no stupid mystery gimmick. X23 probably shouldn't take her dad's mantle but she's not some mystery chick. She's not calling herself Logan . Also Logan has been stupidly dead for a while so it isn't a rushed half-assed non-reason like a cyclops whispered in his ear.
>Laura has her own series
>it's selling really well
>will probably go on for some time
>it's completely fails to utilise her character at all
>>78798319
>we can never go back to the Kyle/Yost days
help me
>>78793932
Wolverine is an actual Mantle, and Thor isn't?
Or maybe because Co doesn't object to mantles being passed down, just when they are done badly, ie Whor
>>78793932
>surrogate daughter<bitch ex?
>>78793932
Slut shaming at its finest. She doesn't trick herself out anymore, does she?
>>78794158
Couldn't be that the transition was handled better.
>>78794488
yes she is, dipshit, read the fucking book.
>>78794528
yeah, and unlike whor she's doing it to keep Logan's memory alive.
>>78793932
Because Wolverine is and has always been a title, a code name. If she went around calling herself Logan it would be different.
>>78793932
I don't care about her going by Wolverine. I just wish they didn't try to force Logan's costume onto her. I much prefer her standard look or her X-Force look
Also, she's been written like a completely different character ever since Bendis started writing her
>>78794516
>he is literally her father both genetically
Well kinda...she has the same DNA as him, but children usually have split DNA of both their parents...so I guess she's technically his daughter in a way
>>78797044
>We will never get New X-Men back
Its been like 10 years and i'm still mad
>>78793932
The only grievance I have with Laura is that she didn't get a better costume; could have done a better job of combining Logan's costume with her sense of style.
>>78799940
>tfw nobody is allowed to show skin anymore
Thats why they had to kill of Namor. It would be blasphemy to cover him up
>>78794761
Having read through Jane Foster's Thor one of the biggest mistakes made was spending an issue again on her taking up Mjonir after that arc had been completed ; it felt like Jason was upset at the fact that people hadn't completely accepted Jane, he should have just pushed forward with the story instead of felating himself.
>>78793932
Wouldn't you want your daughter to inherit your title when you did instead of some random guy.
>>78793932
people like x-23
nobody is calling her wolverine. she's just cosplaying as her daddy
i like to use x-23 as proof that the bone claws thing never happened because obviously her claws are different
>>78799791
or weirdly closer to his mom.. because he has half of HER dna, she doesn't have half of his (i mean she does but)
>>78800346
>i like to use x-23 as proof that the bone claws thing never happened because obviously her claws are different
?
>>78793932
>Her claim to the mantle is far weaker than Janes as she wasn't even particularly close to Wolverine
She was a clone desperately wishing that Wolverine would give her the daddy time he gave Kitty, Jubilee, Armor and others, but both her and logan were to emotionally reatrded to talk about it.
>>78793932
She kinda does
But she also is an actual clone of Wolverine, with the same powers and all. She also has a troubled and bloody past.
Jane Foster was just Thor's on and off girlfriend and now she's suddenly Thor because Nick Fury whispered sweet nothings into Odinson's ear
>>78797107
Well yea both Bendis and Loeb still exist after all.
>>78800346
They were coated in adamantium when she was still growing, that's why they are small in proportion to her body, it's in her origin arc.
>>78795093
Yeah, but it is retarded enough to be a New 52 storyline.
