People are mad because all the nominees for the Angoulême Grand Prix were men. The thing that bothers me the most is Bendis being nominated
http://grandprix.bdangouleme.com/11/liste-candidats.html
>Stan Lee
Lee and Bendis are tokens for the capefags
At least Quino is there
>Urasawa
Why? That hack has never done anything worthwhile in his life.
>b-but muh Monster, muh Pluto,
All shit.
>>78748121
I thought 20th Century Boys was dumb
>>78748173
As I said all he's done is shit.
>>78747844
You could argue that Stan Lee was a major force on the comic industry through the persona he cultivated. Bendis though makes no sense, I mean his career essentially began in the 2000's if you don't count his indie stuff, 16 years of work hardly seems worth " lifetime achievement"
>>78748121
>>78748388
>muh
People use that stupid buzzword when they have no argument.Pluto is a fucking masterpiece solely out of the fact that Urasawa took an Astro Boy storyline and turned into something even better than the original.
>>78748466
It's not hard to make something that is shit slightly better, so nothing impressive there.
I think Richard Corben should win
>>78748827
The Americans have a good crop to choose from, really any of them except Bendis, would be acceptable
I'm ignorant of all the Euro people except Manara and Jodo
>>78748466
Pluto is only good up to a point, the ending lets it down massively. The whole sequence up to and after Gesicht being killed, really. Urasawa in general has serious problems with his endings.
>>78748827
that would be retarded since he already did, back in '99
also, rumiko is more worthy than any other on that list except maybe clowes, quino or ware.
>>78749676
That's wrong and you know it.
>>78749676
>rumiko
Come on now, she's good but not GREAT.
>Bendis nominated
>>78749109
>endings
More like everything. Bland characters, unnecessary exposition, pacing, blatant symbolism.
There, I've described his every work after Yawara.
>>78750893
>blatant symbolism
Your criticism is very poor. I'm not sure if that's just because you're putting in no effort or are incapable of doing it better. I'm not disagreeing with you about Urasawa, but you have to word and explain your criticism better than this if you want people to agree with youON 4CHAN DOT ORG.I'm highlighting the above because that is a completely arbitrary statement and could mean any number of things.
>>78747087
>People actually got mad over this
>Candidates actually withdrew their names from the list in protest
>Angouleme is now adding women to the list to appease whiny Americans
Well there it goes, the last reputable comic award.
>>78749676
Jesus Christ, that shit taste.
At least name a good female mangaka like Riyoko Ikeda
>>78751482
I bet Kate Leth will be nominated now
>>78751523
Do people in France know who Riyoko Ikeda is? In the American comic industry Rumiko and more recently Hiromu Arakawa are the only female mangaka who are known to exist.
These are the ones that withdrew their names
Daniel Clowes
Riad Sattouf
Joann Sfar
Milo Manara
Etienne Davodeau
Charles Burns
Christophe Blain
Pierre Christin
Chris Ware
Brian Michael Bendis
>>78751809
I thought Clowes was above this. :(
>>78751809
literallywhos.
And apparently Manara is under stockholm syndrome now. Or is he stil under contract with Marvel?
>>78751809
>Christin
Well, Mezieres is the artist of the two
>>78751482
Seriously, fuck this kowtowing bullshit. They should just have turned round and said they weren't nominated because they weren't good enough.Then they should have given it to Manara just to piss them off even more.
>>78752470
But Manara withdrew apparently.
Can you give it to someone who refuses it?
Can an award commitee say "come get it or we're throwing it in the trash"
>>78748560
>oh shit he's found me out
>i'll have to claim astro boy is shit to cover my tracks
Not fooling anyone
>>78752893
>I'll act like a smug cunt and pretend something that never happened did happen to inflate my ego
It'd be better for this world if you killed yourself. Pluto is nothing but a mediocre crime thriller and Astro Boy is kiddy trash not deserving to be considered best of anything. Than again, we have Stan Lee on that shitty list who never created anything but forgettable badly-written capeshit.
>>78747087
>People are mad because all the nominees for the Angoulême Grand Prix were men.
I see a bunch of women there right now, so what's the problem?
That they put Marjane Satrapi there's more problematic, because she's basically only passable and her lifetime achievement is like what? Three fucking books?
>>78748121
Urasawa is actually pretty good whenever he isn't cartering to the specific publishing strategies of japanese magazines 100%.
>>78751648
>Do the French know about Rose of Versailles
>>78753516
>I see a bunch of women there right now, so what's the problem?
They were put in because of the complaints. That's the problem - That the word is so PC now that women and minorities can moan about anything and get their way, even if they don't deserve it. Wait for the indignant reaction when a man wins.
>>78753516
Urasawa is good when he's writing comedies. The problem arises when he's trying to be serious. He's not really good at it. Monster is fucking painful to watch with how atrocious the dialogue is.
>Marjane Satrapi
No one whose Magnum Opus is an autobiography should be considered a good author (butthurt Maus and American Splendor-fags incoming). You need even less brainpower to describe your life than to create something new.
On one hand, I don't think you can fully blame the awards for the bullshit unfair gender skewed biases of the industry. Many men and women in the mainstream and in the industry itself stupidly insist that comics should be by and for men. It's a myth that helps replicate itself.
At the same time, these awards do go for more art house and lesser known creators to honor. I find it confounding that not a single woman across the globe did anything in the past years to warrant this achievement this year.
Though honestly I haven't closely followed them each year and I don't know what bullshit these awards are to begin with.
Still, given the entire planet of comics and the supposedly refined taste of the awards committee, I find it unbelievable they honestly did not find even one female comics creator to fit in one of these thirty nominations.
Of course, protesting and boycotting isn't a clean solution.
Now when any women do get nominated next year, people will claim they're a diversity hire and argue some kind of tokenism instead recognizing their actual merit. That isn't right either.
>>78752256
>And apparently Manara is under stockholm syndrome now. Or is he stil under contract with Marvel?
Or maybe while he loves drawing sexy as fuck women and is upset his art got yanked from a Marvel cover (that maybe it shouldn't have been on), he also does honestly think 100% of 30 nominations going to a single gender is bullshit.
It's not like he's stopped drawing naked women, sex, and flat out porn. He's just smart enough, smarter than Marvel, to know that maybe a teen to young teen book is not the place for his art.
I think he's smart enough to see these are separate issues, unlike some internet tough guys who think everything is a vast leftist feminazi conspiracy.
>>78753751
But didn't get call the complainers idiots?
>>78753915
For his cover, not this. I don't think he had any issue with his variant and didn't think of the fact it might be a teen book
>>78753751
>unlike some internet tough guys who think everything is a vast leftist feminazi conspiracy.
I don't actually believe that, but I'm more than happy to admit I gleefully savour anything that upsets whiny offended people I don't like because, to quote Charlie Brooker (who puts it better than I ever could) such people "...deserve to be upset unnecessarily, morning, noon and night, every sodding day, for the rest of their wheedling lives."
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/sep/17/comment.charliebrooker
Western society really does seem to be becoming a competition where the more offended you are, the more power it gives you. And it's even rubbing off on the opposition, as far from being rational defenders of free speech we see people (often on this very website) instead choosing to act offended on behalf of men and white people. It's all so fucking pathetic. People need to grow some spines and thicker skin and just laugh in the faces of all these melodramatic posturing idiots.
>>78753654
>not liking Persopolis
>not liking American Splendor
MIght as well end yourself, but I'll entertain your notion: Anyone can come up with an idea, the problem is presenting that idea in an engaging and creative fashion, which Pekar, and to a lesser extent Satrapi, manage extremely well; certainly better than most fiction writers. ALthough Satrapi still doesn't deserve a lifetime achievement.
On the subject of autobiographies, has Delisle gotten any recognition from the Grand Prix?
>>78754093
Except your notion is idiotic.
Writing a good fictional story is not just coming up with an idea. It's believable world-building even for fantastic shit, making sure every small detail makes sense and no plot-hole is left unexplained or unnoticed, making the characters feel like people rather than caricatures, and making it engaging and creative.
Autobiography, like you said, autobiographies are capable of just doing the last two things because the rest involves real people so you're not creating anything. You're just describing what already happened. It'd be like recording the sounds animals make and sell it as your song. It's not plagiarism and with minimal adjustments can be considered music, but you've put little effort in it compared to actual composers.
Autobiographies are one of the lowest types of the literature. They require minimal creativity and effort from the writer and therefore if it's considered to be a writer's best work, they're obviously not a good writer.And honestly, Pekar and Satrapi are not good writers at all. American Splendor is mediocre at best, even if you pretend it's not an autobiography.
>>78754243
See, your argument would hold if that was the standard all fiction was held to... but its not. You could make the argument that the greatest works of fiction will always surpass the greatest autobiographical works, and you wouldn't necessarily be wrong, but even so: 1. A lot of great non-biographical works don't involve any more worldbuilding, 2. You still have to watch for story consistency with autobiographical works, 3. Since we're talking about GRAPHIC novels, there's a lot of factors that have nothing to do with the story, like pencil work and panelling, 4. This is something subjective, but I rate prose, characterization, pacing, and entertainment factor over creativity and attention to detail, when it comes to writing.
>>78754313
>entertainment
Fuck entertainment. It's the cancer that kills fiction. Not speaking necessarily about you, but the cries of
>WAHH I'M BORED BY WAR AND PEACE I WANT SOMETHING SHORTER
is the reason we don't have good long literary works anymore. No one bothers to put as much effort as Tolstoy did because modern generations wouldn't be entertained by and therefore read something so long.
>>78754401
Come off it anon, much as I agree with your assessment of how media should be judged, shallow mass entertainment still existed at the time of the great literary writers. Even at the time the plebs weren't reading Tolstoy, they were reading their lurid penny dreadfuls. There have always been 'tiers' of art.
>>78753992
>Western society really does seem to be becoming a competition where the more offended you are, the more power it gives you. And it's even rubbing off on the opposition, as far from being rational defenders of free speech we see people (often on this very website) instead choosing to act offended on behalf of men and white people. It's all so fucking pathetic. People need to grow some spines and thicker skin and just laugh in the faces of all these melodramatic posturing idiots.
Of course it's nothing new for conservatives either. Just look at Fredric Wertham with Seduction Of The Innocent and Jack Thompson with his video game and movie lawsuits. And not new for liberals either. Just look at Tipper Gore with her Parental Advisory sticker on music CDs and Hillary with GTA Hot Coffee. These liberals in conservative 'think of the children' clothing are nothing new.
Then it was about protecting children. Now it's protecting the feelings of frail innocent women. Now it's about feminism being about victimization and coddling instead of empowerment.
Fucking disgusting.
>>78754575
The point is not what existed back then, it doesn't fucking bother me. The point is that no one bothers to try to create anything good anymore because writers realize it might not be profitable and will most likely end up being a waste of effort. Hell, it shows how literature fell when unreadable garbage like Blood Meridian is considered to be one of the relatively modern literary masterpieces.
>plebs
Oh sorry for actually arguing with someone like you, fuck off.
>>78754650
Damn, you're in straight denial.
>>78754683
What fucking denial?
Literature has gone down the drain. And yes, I know shit like Lady Chatterley and Dubrovsky (as much as I like Pushkin as a poet, he's a terrible writer) existed back then but there also existed good things. Nothing nowadays is good. Good writers are dead.
Frankly, I don't know why I keep arguing with you because anyone who uses "plebs" unironically is a faggot, but whatever.
>>78747087
>>78751482
Angoulème is a joke. Lewis Trondheim wrote a reaully nice and depressing book about the time he was president of the jury. Everything is owned byLeclerc supermarkets.
What caused the feminist uproar is a facebook post by Riad Satouf, a really good BD author but a fucking white knight in real life.
So the girls got defended by a guy and now Angouleme is adding random girl name to the list so they shut the fuck up.
That's what feminism is now.
And Q Hayashida will never have decent inbternational recognition.
>>78754650
Of course people still try (and succeed) at creating worthwhile, meanigful art that isn't commercial in nature, even in the field of comics. If you can't see any that's your fault for not looking very hard, not society's. After all, why would it be high profile if it wasn't meant to appeal to the masses? No-one's going to pay to market it.
>>78754755
Except I do, and all I find is nothing impressive. All the good things are in the past.
Just like nothing compares to classical music (and I mean good music, not Mendelssohn or Chaikovsky bland shallow shit) nothing modern writers create feels like it has any value.
>>78754730
>being an elitist
>getting mad when someone else uses elitist language
Kek. You're also talking to more than one person.
>>78754798
How am I elitist? I don't care if people read something trashy like Frankenstein or Conan the Barbarian nor do I think they're plebs for doing so. I'm just lamenting the death of the good literary works.
>>78753726
>On one hand, I don't think you can fully blame the awards for the bullshit unfair gender skewed biases of the industry. Many men and women in the mainstream and in the industry itself stupidly insist that comics should be by and for men. It's a myth that helps replicate itself.
The Angoulême Grand Prix is a french festival. The US laws, habits and business practices that fucked over the US comic industry do not affect them in any way, shape or form.
>>78754740
>Riad Satouf
>syrians beheading a puppy kids impaled on a hayfork with a shovel.jpg
What do you think, would that page be enough to force the US government to disengage from Syria?
>>78754740
>Angoulème is a joke.
If angouleme is a joke, EVERY comic book awards show is a joke.
And Urasawa is great and so is Billy Bat, fight me.
>>78754740
Leclerc is as close to an ethical supermaket chain as there is, just saying.
Never heard of this, only happy that a compatriot got nominated.
That said, anyone who believes any kind of award is not a friends of power deal or political & publicity stunt is an idiot.
>>78751648
I just looked her up, by god, I just realized how hard Colleen Doran plagariazed her style
>>78753726
>Many men and women in the mainstream and in the industry itself stupidly insist that comics should be by and for men. It's a myth that helps replicate itself.
only gringos believe that
>>78753726
>Still, given the entire planet of comics and the supposedly refined taste of the awards committee, I find it unbelievable they honestly did not find even one female comics creator to fit in one of these thirty nominations.
I'm guessing they weren't actively trying to fit a woman in there, what with gender not being a factor.
>>78754846
But the French industry is also overwhelmingly masculine, even though there's more of a place for female writers and artists than in the US.
>>78751648
The Rose of Versailles manga is readily available in French editions and the anime was broadcast with a French dub.
>>78756579
30 years ago though. I mean you'll find people who know what it is but it's likely they'll have no idea who the author is except if they're avid manga readers.
>>78756373
>EVERY comic book awards show is a joke
Well, yes.
>>78756599
The French are still goofy for Grendzier and other Go Nagai shows from the 70's, so it's not that far fetched they know who Ikeda is.
I was in Paris a few months ago and noticed they had a wider selection of manga than US comic stores.
Lot of older stuff too, City Hunter, Fist of the Northstar, Rose.
>>78756654
French has the second largest manga industry aside from Japan of course.
>>78756599
>30 years ago though.
Popular series getting reprinted is pretty normal. Would happen in the US as well if comics were popular there.
>>78756560
>But the French industry is also overwhelmingly masculine, even though there's more of a place for female writers and artists than in the US.
Yes, but Non-Anglo-Saxons are 100% immune to cooties and people don't sue you over the wierdest shit, so companies don't have to invest massive cash to warn all the kids and parents every time they release something that's a known carrier.
>>78756654
>The French are still goofy for Grendzier
Fuck, I want to go to France now.
Nobody remembers that and from what I seen /m/ is too cuntish for discussion.
>>78756654
Nigga I'm French, I'm telling you most people who are goofy for Grendzier are just hard nostalgiafags for the cartoon (and its shitty dub and French opening) and couldn't tell you who the author is.
I have older cousins who love High School! Kimengumi but they've never read the manga to my knowledge, it just happened to be a cartoon they liked on TV as kids.
>City Hunter, Fist of the Northstar
Those were also on French TV.
There's no doubt that the French are more into manga than the US and have been into it for longer, but mangas are still relatively niche, especially for things that did get an anime in the pre-internet era.
>>78756860
>mangas are still relatively niche, especially for things that did get an anime in the pre-internet era.
That was unclear, what I mean is that mangas that got an anime before the internet era are more likely to be known as cartoons, and few of the people who remember those have actually read the mangas. I only know a couple of people besides me who have read Dragonball and it was huge in my generation, but because of the anime. I can't imagine things like Sailor Moon, City Hunter, Hokuto no Ken or in ths case Rose of Versailles faired much better.
>Now organizers have announced they won’t propose any names for the festival’s lifetime achievement award, and will instead allow academy members to vote for whomever they like.
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2016/01/under-fire-angouleme-will-leave-grand-prix-to-the-free-will-of-voters/
IT'S OVER
Angoulême deserved it. The Grand Prix has been a joke for years now. Too bad it blew up on another silly feminist stunt, but they should have seen it coming and put at least one token female author on the list.
Still the best comic festival, their best album prize is always worth reading.
>>78758030
>they should have seen it coming and put at least one token female author on the list.
Eat shit and die you toxic brainless moron.
>>78757661
Who were the female creators they added to the list? The link in the article doesn't work anymore.
>>78759724
Linda Barry, Julie Doucet, Moto Hagio, Chantal Montellier, Marjane Satrapi and Posy Simmonds. Sauces: Certain top French news websites.
What a shitfest of that Grand Prix.
it's really transparent how much you guys just don't like women
>>78760019
>>78759724
To be honest, the only women who have worked long enough in the industry to really deserve that award are Angela and Luciana Giussani and they're both dead.
Not to mention that their output was never trying to be particularily artsy and they really weren't too big on experiments either.
>>78760775
Diabolik was garbage anyway.
>>78758637
Really rude.
>>78760077
And I'm not really seeing it, this place isn't filled with men hating women, it's just filled with skeptics.
>>78760775
>the only women who have worked long enough in the industry to really deserve that award are Angela and Luciana Giussani
Marie Severin says hi
>>78751482
>Well there it goes, the last reputable comic award.
You naive little retard actually thought there ever was such a thing. The award, as most awards, has always been just shoulder-rubbing and attention-seeking from the press. If they ever cared about nominating the best people in the first place they would have a) nominated the worthy women they're picking out now if they really are better than some of the current candidates, or b) stood by their picks because they actually thought they were the best.
But no, their first roster was picked for connections and maximum fame points to get more press rather than objective merits, and the second roster is being picked for even more press attention. The arrangers must be ecstatic about this turn of events.
>>78761062
It's more entertaining than Persepolis and it's an actual lifetime achievement rather than a so-so lucky break.
>>78761293
>cape garbage that looks shit
Come back with a good pick next time.
>>78760775
Riyoko Ikeda.
>>78763776
>not Okazaki Kyoko
Ikeda already got the Ordre national de la Légion d'honneur, according to Wikipedia.
>>78747087
the exact same scenario exposed by the Gamergate is happening with comics in France.
Feminists: "Wait, there are no much women and none of them won the grand prix or were in the nominees!"
"We must RIGHT THIS WRONG! We demand Equality!"
and guess what was the response from Angouleme:
https://www.fb.com/notes/festival-international-de-la-bande-dessin%C3%A9e-dangoul%C3%AAme/la-parole-aux-auteures-/1036925726329678
>>78766957
>In France
>one of the nominees goes: "Yeah, this is not le feminist, it injustice makes my arab blood boil hot"
>bunch of other nominees agree that this looks really dumb and withdraw
>In the US
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>BETA UPRISING
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>PRETEND THAT YOURE FEMALE ON TWITTER
>>78757661
Well I mean it's not going to be a woman most of the years is it. The only chance they got was being nominees, and now they blew it.
I'm not bothering to look up (like probably everybody else itt) but I'm guessing there have been numerous female nominees in the past.
>>78760775
I mean if you're talking classic Franco-Belgian Bretecher is still alive, although she's already won prizes at Angouleme.
>1976 : Prix du scénariste français au festival d'Angoulême
>1982 : Grand Prix spécial 10e anniversaire du festival d'Angoulême
>1999 : Alph-Art humour au festival d'Angoulême pour Agrippine et l'ancêtre
>>78751523
>calling people on their taste
>ikeda above takahashi
is this nigger even serious? handing an angouleme grand prix for generic shojo? go develop an opinion before posting
fuck Stan Lee
>>78751648
Rose of Versailes was pretty big in France (both the manga and the dubbed show) under the name "Lady Oscar" and Ikeda is VERY POPULAR there.
That actually caused a hilarious move by a french Tv station that, after noticing the success of Lady Oscar, wanted to air another adaptation of one of Ikeda's works: Oniisama E. Three (yes, it only lasted three) episodes of bullying, lesbianism, attempted suicides and drug use later, parent complaints get the series off the air, which is a shame 'cuz Oniisama E is some amazingly delicious melodrama with some great directing by Dezaki.
Harlock, Esmeraldas and the rest of the Leijiverse is also pretty big there.
>>78760077
In 2016, no less!
