>one character's power is "magic" and that is the extent of its description
>it seems to do something different each episode
>sure, there might be limits on how and when she can use magic at all such as needing to speak, and there might be a short list of things her magic supposedly can never do, but the nature and scope of effects possible is whatever the plot requires
>she can even create life, turn back time, and bestow powers onto other people, but such blatant setting-breaking feats are only shown for comedy
Why do writers still do this? Didn't it bother them when they were kids?
>>78634857
Because is just another term for "Reality Warping"
In fantasy settings magic wankers are limited by the forces they serve or energies they can handle or school of magic they studied
>>78635019
>Because is just another term for "Reality Warping"
And why is that still an acceptable power to give to a main character? It can only be countered by itself, as long as you're not an idiot.
Any problem you can name, for example, a bridge about to collapse. The reality warper waves her hand at it, now it's fixed even better than it was before. No effort, no ingenuity, it just happens. The ONLY reasons that might fail are either another reality warper or some kind of kryptonite factor.
>>78635197
Skeletor, Mumm-Ra, Sorcerer Jafar, Aku, Ganondorf, are all reality warping magic users that still get beat up by heroes.
Even in Star Vs the wand is said and shown to be a limitless object of supreme power. Show still has a plot with things to overcome.
>>78635197
It's not acceptable
It should only be in fantasy settings or if the scope of their magic is very defined and or limited
This would be a good thread to discuss a certain mane character in a certain cartoon
IF I WERE ABLE TO
>>78634857
take it to /tg/ you fuck
So all /co/ magic user characters should be required to keep to the 3.5 player's handbook wizard spells list, or the 5e wizard spells list?
>>78635608
All of those fall into at least one of these categories:
1. The character is an idiot.
2. The hero is explicitly highly resistant to their magic.
3. Some external weakness makes their magic not work when the plot requires.
4. Another reality warper counters them.
So taking a look at the preferred magic that has a set of strict rules like 3.5 wizard list, we have things like
Polymorph-turning anything or anyone into absolutely anything without limits with only a wave of a finger and a couple words.
Creation minor/major- can conjure and form any object the wizard imagines
Mirage Arcana- can create any illusion of any size and shape covering however much area the wizard wants
Telekinesis- it's a goddamn spell
Teleport- poofs anywhere on or off Earth
And these are not even the top level spells. By level 5 they are in the bullshit Bewitched, I Dream of Genie, Fairly Odd Parents level of "do anything I want because lol magic" fuckery. All by waving a finger and saying Abba ka Dabba.
So this thread is basically how they fuck over Raven on Teen Titans Go in the worst possible way? Hell some of the episodes are literally "Raven use a spell to try to magically fix something and here is the results".
>>78637143
I'm not sure what OP wants in a magic character.
They have been godmoding since the invention of the wizard in fiction
>>78635197
>My cape does not work under these circumstances.
>>78637906
I already acknowledged that. >>78635197
>some kind of kryptonite factor
Making the power of "magic" shut down completely because of some arbitrary circumstance does not change the fact that it can do anything.
My point is it's cool to see characters use powers with specific effects in creative ways, like how one of the toughest bosses in One Piece has the power to create strings from his body.
If you write about a superhero whose power is described as "absolute control of all matter, energy, space, time and information except when a butterfly is nearby", then there's going to be a lot of stories where a butterfly is (in)conveniently nearby to prevent him from using that power.
>>78634857
don't be an idiot. By it's nature, magic should be the undefinable. Defining it makes it fake science bullshit. Like Superman flying. Magic shouldn't need a how or a why because it's magic. It doesn't operate by the same rules or any rules at all.
>>78638555
>Defining it makes it fake science bullshit
Magic comes from microscopic organisms in our bloodstreams.
>>78638703
thanks lucas
>>78635872
no, those succumb pretty heavily to caster supremacy as well
>>78635663
This character you speak of was established to have some "scientific" limitations back in the first season, but still occasionally gets to warp reality when it's called for. Annoying.
>>78638555
>By it's nature, magic should be the undefinable.
"I have the magical power of illusion. This power manifests in two ways."
"First, I can trick the senses of living things, even making them feel pain and believe they are injured as long as the illusion is convincing, but this requires a lot of concentration and imagination to get right, so it's not very effective against multiple people at a time."
"Second, I can create false images like holograms that everyone can perceive, though I still have to be careful not to have this kind of illusion interact with real things too much because the observer's mind won't fill in the blanks."
"In both cases, illusions are not sentient and will not react, only loop, unless I mentally direct them."
"No effect I produce with my magic is real. If I appear to teleport away, I have not actually changed my physical location, people just don't see or hear me anymore. If I appear to have turned a enemy's sword into a snake, it's still a sword and can still be used normally, the enemy just doesn't know that."
"The source and exact mechanism of this power is not fully understood and clearly breaks known laws of science. It's magic, I don't have to explain it, but I can certainly describe what it can and cannot do."
Dr Strange, Dr Fate, and Zatannah do come off as some of the most powerful heroes in their settings.
Strange matched the Infinity Gauntlet once.
It is that annoyingly OP
>>78639343
Strange is also basically the premier magic user who exists anywhere and is also a main character. Since magic is reality warping bullshit it would make sense for one of the most powerful users to be on par with cosmic gods in power level.
>>78637831
I want a character who has magic as a power source, the same way the Hulk has radiation as a power source.
The mechanics of bending in the Avatar universe are a good example of this. It is a clearly supernatural power, and more skilled benders can stretch the definition of their element, but everything they do is still related to a core concept.
If a magical character has the capacity to learn many spells, then it should be established which spells she knows at any given point in the story, before they're needed.
>>78639464
>>78639464
There are lots of those
>>78639464
Like?
>>78639343
let's be fair, anon
Doctor Strange, Doctor Fate, Zatanna Zatara and Giovanni Zatara are some of the most powerful heroes in their settings, and that is okay
>>78634857
This thread AGAIN?
No dude vancian magic doesn't work super well in comic books or cartoons no matter how many times you insist it is.
>>78639753
But are they they most powerful because they are wizards and therefore reality warpers? Which goes along with the definition that the OP is against.
>>78639934
That's because OP is racist against wizards.
>>78639934
They're very few in numbers though.
Magic in DC/Marvel is not really something you can dabble in without getting eaten by extra-dimensional demons or whatever. You're either very strong or dead.
>>78639993
That sounds like it would be the same thing in most magic settings. You play and either become the grand arch mage or you are food for some horrible tentacled monstrosity from another dimension.
Even RPGs and fantasy series fall into this.
>>78634857
It really depends on the tone and goal of the show. If it's aiming to be a serious action or drama there should be seem clearly defined rules for any often recurring magical character or they should be treated appropriately if they really are at a "reality warper" level of magic, eitehr by being a major threat or if used for comedy then if it's own set uf cleary defined rules that don't influence the main plot, like superman's Mr. Mxyztplk.
If it's primarily a comedy show then it doesn't matter much so long as it's still funny.
>>78640226
This is why I hated the wizard character from that Sword of Truth series from a few years ago. He was basically a stock character from Sabrina the Teenage Witch that could wave his fingers and create any outcome no matter what.
He never did anything like get tired, or not be capable of casting something, or even looked a spell up in a book.
Just wave finger and absolutely anything happened.
