What was Anakin planning to do when he left Mortis,having seen a vision of his future?
Well, apparently he would prevent being an evil cunt with Sheev by being an evil cunt with the Son.
But hey, he was possessed and he thought it was a good idea at the time.
>>78578925
I think the Son was manipulating him into thinking he would help Anakin kill Sheev before he sets his plan in motion, whilst presumably having ulterior motives. Hell the Son probably just wanted Anakin's body to posses and he needed Anakin to leave Mortis under his own power for that to happen.
>>78578898
Anakin was fucking retardedly written in that episode. Every individual moment worked, but there was no consistency, motivations flipped back and forth constantly.
>The Son shows Anakin that if he continues on his path and brings balance to the force, it will necessitate becoming Vader and bringing so much suffering
>The Son then offers Anakin a chance to shirk his destiny, never become Vader, letting the force remain imbalanced
>Anakin agrees, he will join the son, and kill the emperor
That's perfectly well and good. That's a really interesting scenario for Anakin, and a believable, in-character direction for him to go in.
But in THE NEXT SCENE
>Obi-Wan confronts Anakin
>Anakin tells Obi-Wan that he's scene the future, and knows that to end the clone wars, and on a grander scale to complete his destiny, he must become Vader, and Obi-Wan will not understand and try to stop him
>in a later scene, Anakin has completely reversed his mind again, and seeks to flee from his destiny
Seriously, what the fuck were they on? There's nothing wrong with either of these, Anakin refusing his destiny, not wanting to turn into Vader, and accepting it both work in their own way, and are interesting, but they just switch between the two with no rhyme or reason, directly contradicting himself several times.
>>78579152
Spice, not even once.
Someone needs to write an AU where the Son leaves Mortis with Anakin.
>>78579822
Eh, there are more interesting AUs
>no AU where Obi-Wan dies on Utapau and Anakin is free to overthrow Sheev and build his empire
>no AU where Luke and Vader actually agree to work together to overthrow Sheev
>no AU where Qui-Gon survives and trains Anakin outside of the Jedi order
Dark Side Ahsoka was the best part of that arc. Her bitchy little "Don't call me that. I hate it when you call me that!" to Anakin when he calls her "Snips" will never not be funny.
>>78579152
>Every individual moment worked, but there was no consistency, motivations flipped back and forth constantly
I sort of thought that was the point of the Mortis arc. Or at least one of the points. Just free form exploration of the characters, cut off from the baggage and consequences of 'cannon' Basically running a bunch of 'What If' scenarios in tandem. Because in terms of overall pacing and plotting, the Mortis arc is a fucking spider-web. But individually, a lot of the moments, or isolated ideas work brilliantly.
>>78580056
>No Obi Wan and Padme get Anakin to calm the fuck down and go on to murder Sheev and fix the Republic.
>>78578898
Not strictly related but I thought I'd ask it here. Did Anakin do much to stop Slave Trade/Slavers in general?
I mean as a Jedi and a former Slave you'd think that would be his top prioirty. I know as Darth he'd just see enslaved as weaklings
>>78579152
Their job is to tie in afterthought Vader in the original trilogy with the afterthought inflated backstory Anakin in the prequels, I don't blame them one bit.
>>78580166
IIRC it was something Sjeev promised him but conveniently forgot.
Slaves in general were a trigger even as Vader.
>>78580143
better yet
>Yoda goes to Anakin instead of Obi-Wan and doesn't handle the situation so colossally poorly
>Concedes that the Jedi order had been blinded and acting wrong
>Anakin along with Yoda and Obi-Wan successfully depose Sheev and work to install a new government with Padmé at the helm, and no involvement from the Jedi
>>78580166
Also why did he never get his mother out of slavery? Don't give me that no attachment retarded shit. Attachment and making sure a woman is not in slavery and having a simple but free and safe life are not the same. Anakin could have save up enough cash over the years to make this happen.
There is nothing evil, bad or corrupting to accept money from people that you save or help out, especially if you will then use that money for someone else. Paragon is refusing the money, neutral is accepting the money, and renegade is stealing the money.
>>78580143
>fix the Republic
Anon, the Republic cannot be fixed. It is time to start over.
>>78580200
>install a new government
This is the right idea.
>>78578898
Didn't the director of that episode say that those were all force visions? The Son, Father and Daughter aren't real.
>>78580200
The thing about getting to Anakin on mustafar though is that at the point he had gotten Windu killed and personally slaughtered not only all the strongest Jedi still in the temple, but a bunch of small children not even a day ago.
That he can be talked down and just goes on to make nice is a slap on the face to all of them.
>>78580229
Honestly that just makes everything more confusing.
>>78580262
Apparently everything in that episode was as real as Luke fighting Vader in the cave on dagobah.
Though I imagine it was actually Qui Gon appearing to Obi Wan cause the force can probably work like that. Wookiepedia seems to make no indication that they aren't real. But as far as the creators have said it's canon, but it's a vision.
>>78578898
Some Star Wars magazine laid out the scenario. As Anakin and the Son approach Coruscant, Sheev senses what's going on, reveals himself to Yoda, and allies with him against the Son and fallen Chosen One. When they arrive, Anakin duels the two of them, and wins. Then he goes to the Senate and declares himself ruler of the galaxy.
YOUR NEW EMPIRE?
>>78580217
>There is nothing evil, bad or corrupting to accept money from people that you save or help out, especially if you will then use that money for someone else. Paragon is refusing the money, neutral is accepting the money, and renegade is stealing the money.
Now you understand why so many people "fall" from the Jedi order. The Jedi are autists with retarded rules, the Sith are degenerates with no rules. Unfortunately all of the special snowflake non-Jedi non-Sith force users tend to be super annoying in their own way.
>>78580217
This bothered me too. I get at the time Qui Gon couldn't start shit because the needed the parts but Obi Wan or hell padme should have sent some fuckers to help. Should republic citzens give a shit about slave laws
>>78580217
The Jedi of that era were completely stupid though.
No attachments of any kind; they take them as toddlers and never let them see their family again.
>>78580246
>That he can be talked down and just goes on to make nice is a slap on the face to all of them.
Disrespect a handful of Jedi, most fallen in their own way, but bring peace to the galaxy, or try to just kill both Anakin and Sheev, best case scenario resulting in total and utter chaos and anarchy, worst case scenario Sheev's Empire.
Anakin likely wouldn't just be able to make nice, his relationship would be irreparably damaged with Obi-Wan and Padmé, but at least the galaxy as a whole would be better off for it.
>>78580217
>>78580334
Out of the Republic (and the Jedi)'s place, also Anakin didn't have much freedom as a padawan, having to follow Obi-Wan around do missions and junk. And then as regarding money, Jedi aren't really supposed to be big on belongings and stuff and they don't really get paid for what they do (though there are donations and Republic funding to keep the Temple and stuff running). So Anakin couldn't really try and save up money, and I think in something that shows his bedroom (concept art or something) he only ever had a few ship models and that's it. And then there's the matter that Republic Credits don't mean shit on Tattooine, which is another hurdle.
>>78580329
>The Jedi are autists with retarded rules
You are aware there are actual monasteries in the world with the same kind of rule sets that are doing very well for themselves, right? There's nothing wrong with not having any attachments when your main job is to keep the peace. I'd rather save lives than concern myself with getting laid.
>>78580305
That sounds like the lawful evil ending to an RPG.
Also Yoda and Sheev joining forces?
Still a a game or story based on the near future of those events would be interesting.
>>78580618
>There's nothing wrong with not having any attachments when your main job is to keep the peace.
Now hold up a second dude. Yes, there are monasteries that have this kind of rule set. But I can't think of any that also have keeping the peace in their job description.
>>78580555
> that Republic Credits don't mean shit on Tattooine, which is another hurdle
Fuck that logic
Take me as a NEET, fat fuck. Someone gives me 1 million Yen, I can't do anything except wipe my ass. I go to China though, I can buy all sorts of shit, or convert it to literally any other form of currency and get a shit ton of usable currency, even if they ask for a small payment even. That is how economics works, here or in some far away galaxy.
To say outlaws, slavers and criminals don't have use for a particular money is retarded, unless that money is not recognized by any society.
Besides, Padme could have freed Shmi if she gave a fuck, but nope, time to fuck off and have fun as the queen and become a senator
>>78580669
>China
>yen
>>78580669
>Besides, Padme could have freed Shmi if she gave a fuck, but nope, time to fuck off and have fun as the queen and become a senator
I'm pretty sure that would much more difficult than walking into Watto's place and demanding he let her go. Hutts own everything and the would fight the Republic on every front.
>Anakin helps Nick Fury kill Palps
>The Republic is saved but Anakin is still fired for his activities outside of work.
>He becomes Padme's official bodyguard and hands over Luke to train with Grandpa Obi-wan.
>Years later, Leia brings home her new boyfriend, a smuggler and his bear-ape, and Anakin realises he sent the wrong kid to Jedi School.
>>78580682
>Africa
>Afro
>>78580262
Dreams usually are.
>>78578898
What was Luke planning to do when he left Dagobah, having seen a vision that linked him inextricably with Vader?
Even in a waking dream, and with the answers at our fingertips, we don't ask the right questions. Luke could have asked Yoda or Obi-Wan at any time before he left for Bespin "what was the deal with Vader being me in a suit in my vision", and they would have told him "Vader is your father". They didn't tell him because it wasn't something he asked and it would have distracted him from his training, which was already short.
You see how if he'd asked then and been told then the entire end of that movie and the whole of the one following might have been different?
Same deal here, only it's a vision of the future: the future is not set (though if it were it wouldn't matter what Anakin planned, as his plan, his not following that plan, and his becoming Vader would be matters of destiny, not choice, as he couldn't have made a choice - destiny being something the dark side is keen to emphasise, but not so much the light).
It's like when he has those visions in two separate movies and his mentors counsel him that they're dreams, not absolute visions of the present or future. The fact they turn out to be true isn't really relevant; in the first case there's nothing he could have done differently (and it's hard to argue Anakin of all people couldn't have just gone and liberated his mother at any time had he wanted to), and in the second case because his dreams change subtly throughout the movie, until they match the reality he's created by following his visions.
tl;dr his plan was to not follow his dreams but he didn't follow the plan
>>78578898
Question (unrelated to OP's but hey, this seems like a Clone Wars thread): In the episode where Dooku's captured by pirates, why do the pirates want to sell a million credits worth of spices on the black market? Wouldn't that mean they'd have to sell at a lower price? Stuff at black markets are either cheap because they bypass certain cost such as taxes or they were stolen, or they could be more expensive if it's an illegal substance or something. But far as we could tell, it was just over the counter spice?
>>78580716
She could have paid.
>>78580334
Naboo's senator/queen getting involved would start problems with the Hutts; unless you're proposing slavery be permitted to continue but Shmi be freed because she's a magical unicorn.
They couldn't afford that so soon after the problems with the Trade Federation, and the lack of a Republic military body complicates it further. Remember, those fighters in episode 1 are the limit of Naboo's military strike capability, and the Hutts control an entire region of space, which implies some military capability and on that scale even with minimal strike capacity would dwarf a single planet's militia.
Anakin could have gone back and freed her alone; but then he'd probably have been killed in the attempt, because he too would try to free all the slaves, and he's got even more problems against the Hutts. You have to assume that for regions to exist beyond the ability of the Jedi even at their most militant to bring under Republic control, those regions are capable of severely hurting the Jedi Order directly - or perhaps indirectly, through the Republic.
Ultimately a lot of the problems people have with the prequels are based on the requirement to think about background and politics, and that's what's happening here. It's even explicitly spelled out in episode 2 - the Republic isn't willing to go by force against the Separatists who are, nominally, members of the Republic until they are revealed to have built a significant military force to back up their threats. Why would they be willing to go against the Hutts? They wouldn't even stand up to the Trade Federation.
>>78581060
Why not buy Shmi through a cut out? You avoid the stigma of purchasing a slave, you make it becomes a business transaction rather than making her a magical unicorn, and it's morally neutral.
>>78581056
Right, and what about the other slaves?
Because at the point you're buying up one slave, you're a slave owner even if you then release that individual; and if you buy hundreds - bankrupting yourself and destroying the economies that relied on them - you're still a slave owner.
In the political atmosphere of the Republic do you think she'd have been able to continue as a senator, given the way they'd paint her actions? How about if Watto still didn't want to sell, as he didn't at the end of his appearance in The Phantom Menace?
Schmi - and I'm not condoning her captivity, just pointing out the reasoning here - has a relatively good life. She's got work, she's got a pretty big place of her own to live in, friends are implied. Taking her away from all that - because it's bonded labor - is fine, but you have then the additional problems that you cause by removing her from friends and community.
When she eventually goes to Lars there's a subtext that Watto never really cared what she did in her off-hours (or she wouldn't have had any). Lars freed her and married her; there's your payment idea, done better. She keeps community and friends but is free. We don't even know when she was sold, but it was a long time before Anakin came looking for her.
Of course the problem now is that one slave is freed and the rest continue to be slaves, but that's not a problem you can solve overnight just because indentured servitude is abhorrent.
Why did the Jedi council allow a newbie to train the chosen one when one of the various master could have done it better?
>>78581151
Watto didn't want to sell until he sold to Lars.
Maybe he was waiting for someone to come along who'd treat her right. All he knew about Qui-Gon when he traded him Anakin was that he was some dude with a spaceship who travelled around with a little girl.
Maybe Watto had a conscience after all. Just because he finds himself living in a society that condones slavery doesn't mean he's a sociopath.
>>78580915
>Luke could have asked Yoda or Obi-Wan at any time before he left for Bespin "what was the deal with Vader being me in a suit in my vision", and they would have told him "Vader is your father". They didn't tell him because it wasn't something he asked and it would have distracted him from his training, which was already short.
Bullshit. They didn't tell him because Luke was their last hope of killing Vader, and if he knew the truth he might have thought twice about it - like he actually did when he found out. He went from kill Vader to redeem Vader. Obi-Wan supported the lie about Luke's dad being a pilot by saying nothing, then revealed only part of the truth when he talked about Anakin as a Jedi. Yoda and Obi-Wan were dicks when it came to Luke.
>>78581183
Last will of Qui-Gon. Despite him being A LOOSE CANNON JEDI ON THE EDGE he was still a respected Jedi. Also it's pretty implied throughout that the rest of the council aren't particularly fond of Anakin, even if he is the chosen one.
>>78581157
>allowing slavery to exist
The Jedi were a mistake.
>>78581210
They didn't like him when he turned into a adult because because he was a loose cannon. If yoda the the oldest and wisest of the masters taught him. Or if Mace taught Anakin how to channel his inner darkness things could have turned out much different.
>>78581183
If you want to start a "Why did the Jedi _____ in the prequels" discussion, we'll be here all day.
The staggering amount of dumb decisions they made is incredible.
>>78581250
They can't be everywhere.
>>78580915
>It's like when he has those visions in two separate movies and his mentors counsel him that they're dreams, not absolute visions of the present or future. The fact they turn out to be true isn't really relevant; in the first case there's nothing he could have done differently (and it's hard to argue Anakin of all people couldn't have just gone and liberated his mother at any time had he wanted to), and in the second case because his dreams change subtly throughout the movie, until they match the reality he's created by following his visions.
>Having visions about his Mother
>Hey relax it's just bad dreams let go of attachment
Turns out to be visions, Mother dies horribly after long period of torture (maybe rape too)
>Having visions about Padme
>Hey relax it's just bad dreams let go of attachment
Oh shit last time this happened it was real! I can't rely on the Jedi to save my pregnant wife, what the fuck do I do?!
>>78581184
>Just because he finds himself living in a society that condones slavery doesn't mean he's a sociopath.
The EU supported that view. Watto was a dick, but he wasn't heartless. He seemed to really like Anakin and Shmi, and was sad when he lost Anakin, and was reluctant to sell her off, too.
>Hey this kid we picked up as a slave on a shitty planet just saved us by blowing up the droid control ship
>Turns out his Mother is still a salve on that shitty planet
>Let's help out by buying out his Mother and give her a better life on this beautiful planet
>Give her a nice easy job in the palace or something
Fuck everyone on Naboo, the ingrates.
>>78581186
>it would have distracted him from his training
>>78581250
You allow slavery to exist. The device you're posting from now was probably built at least in part by people who work in conditions that amount, if not to outright slavery, then to truck or other forms of formal bonded servitude. Your clothes, the commodities your economy relies on...
Are you a mistake, anon?
>>78581283
The visions he has of his mother might just as easily be dreams. There's no way to independently verify them.
Do you call your mom every time you have a bad dream or feel anxious about her?
>Oh shit last time this happened it was real!
It happens differently in the first dream to subsequent dreams. She's even wearing different clothes each time.
You could take that as being a vision of an inevitable future (in which case it doesn't matter what Anakin or anybody else does, because it's going to happen) or you can take it as a dream, in which case, fixating on it permits Anakin to be manipulated by Palpatine into making it come about.
>>78581350
What about all her slave buddies?
Plus you know they're from Hutt space. There's a reason it's so shitty. They're all rapists and murderers.
>>78581399
>What about all her slave buddies?
We don't even know if she she has friends or not
>>78581157
>rescuing the mother of your special someone
>somehow means trying to abolish slavery on a non-friendly territory
>>78581263
He was from the get-go, they flat-out tell Qui-Gon "dude he's way too old and way too emotional get the fuck out".
NOBODY wants to deal with Anakin except Qui-Gon, and the only reason he was kept around was because of his will. Obi-Wan wouldn't have fucking bothered with Anakin if he didn't have an obligation to his master and nobody else with the Jedi wanted anything to do with him either.
>>78581380
>You allow slavery to exist.
I also don't have super powers.
>>78581439
By the end of the movie everybody believed he was the chosen one though so much in fact that they even told him.
>>78581020
They wanted the spice because it was more valuable than credits in many places throughout the outer rim.
It's like asking to be paid in gold instead of money.
The cost of gold (or spice in this case) can increase or decrease with supply and demand, and with the clone wars raging, trade was kind of shit everywhere.
What always bothered the shit out of me is entire planets starving because trade routes were blocked off.
That's dumb as hell to have a lush planet not be self-sufficient when it comes to food. It'd be more understandable if those starved out planets were more barren like Jaku and not sub-tropical like Naboo.
>>78581183
>>78581210
>>78581263
>>78581439
The council wasn't going to allow Anakin to be trained. Qui-Gon gave them an ultimatum, "I'm going to train this boy, with or without the support of the Jedi Order"
If he hadn't died on Naboo Qui-Gon would have likely been kicked from/cut ties with the order and trained Anakin on his own. But he got stabbed and made Obi-Wan promise to train Anakin, even though Obi-Wan didn't really want to, and the council was put into a really awkward situation and ended up just sort of saying 'screw it'
Getting murdered and making something your last wish is a really effective way to win an argument, especially when Obi-Wan was such a rising star of a Jedi himself that the council wouldn't want to risk losing.
>>78581186
Well yeah, they were part of the old Jedi.
It's important to remember that Yodi and Ben were WRONG, about pretty much everything.
>>78581250
The Prequels Era Jedi had allowed themselves to become weak and indolent. Slavery was quietly part of the status quo, and the Jedi were too comfy to upset the status quo.
>>78581380
>The visions he has of his mother might just as easily be dreams. There's no way to independently verify them.
>Do you call your mom every time you have a bad dream or feel anxious about her?
No because I'm not a fucking space wizard who have been known to sometimes have visions of the future through space magic.
Independently verifiable? Are you just trying to bait now? It's a fucking space magic vision. The fact that IT CAME TRUE AND SHE DIED is verification enough.
>>78581509
I'm just saying if i was in an order of powerful space wizards and a boy who is believed to the chosen one is going to be trained regardless of wishes I would want someone with experience training him especially if the situation is unorthodox to begin with.
>>78581526
>The Prequels Era Jedi had allowed themselves to become weak and indolent.
That's not exactly fair Obi-wan, Mace, Anakin, and Yoda was the best of the best considered to be unequaled. But yeah Yoda and Mace was too comfy with status quo then decided in the weirdest decisions possible to perform a coup d'tat in 3
>>78578898
Nothing
at the end his memory got wiped of it.
>>78580217
I mean, Annie's Mom was captured and sold into slavery, it's pretty shitty but by the time the Jedi's come around that's ancient history. It's not like she can survive on Tat alone, and it's not like her owner was doing any better than her, living standards wise.
>>78581917
everyone is still miserably weak compared to Old Republic level Jedi / Sith
>>78582538
Oh you mean the fanfiction stuff where the super-awesome special snowflakes could use the force to drain all life on a planet and shit.
Also known as not-canon.
>>78583298
kotor and clone wars are practically the only things that are cannon now
>>78583406
>kotor
>canon
Not even TOR is canon
>>78583430
It's just The Clone Wars, a handful of comics and a handful of shitty books.
>>78583457
>shitty books
You shut your mouth Tarkin and Lost Stars are gold.
Though the rest range from 'ehh' to 'good fucking Christ why was this allowed'
