Now that the dust has settled can we all agree the relaunch was shit.
They've even spent the last 3 years trying to go back to pre-nu52 in terms of looks and story.
It was a huge flop.
>>78481161
>Now that the dust has settled can we all agree the relaunch was shit.
Nah.
>They've even spent the last 3 years trying to go back to pre-nu52 in terms of looks and story.
Well, they certainly didn't with story, though they did with looks (which showed them that people liked the old looks, even if others complained about some of them being sexist).
>It was a huge flop.
When Marvel isn't putting out a dozen #1s a month DC wins.
>>78481161
DC's problem is they have great characters but no fucking clue how to write them
>>78481161
>can we all agree the relaunch was shit.
no
>They've even spent the last 3 years trying to go back to pre-nu52 in terms of looks and story.
yeah they all look real similar to pre-new 52 now don't they
>It was a huge flop.
not by any definition of the word
I was sort of with you until
>It was a huge flop.
Debatable. It was done as a stunt to boost sales and it worked for a while. Sales are back to the same point though so it's interesting to see what they'll try next (the double shipping rumor is kind of interesting).
>>78481226
I think only Hal and Ollie's looks from there are lasting past #50. Everyone else went back to the new 52 costumes.
>>78481227
It was a bigger flop creatively than financially but I mean just think about all the hype that was built up before convergence hit. People wanted the old dc back so fucking hard.
The fundamental problem of the New 52 is that none of the stories that they did REQUIRED them to reboot everything. So they created this huge debacle and pissed a lot of people off for what amounted to nothing.
>>78481284
>People wanted the old dc back so fucking hard
why isn't Lois & Clark selling better
I HATE the new 52. They butchered the teen titans. Both attempts.
Same with suicide squad. its just sad that right after you revamp your entire line you have to re-revamp a few books because you fucked up that hard.
Also wtf was the ravagers? That was trash
And how the hell do you butcher static shock so bad??
>>78481284
>People wanted the old dc back so fucking hard.
They should be reading Lois & Clark and Titans Hunt then.
>>78481265
yeah that's fair, Hal even got a haircut already
I still don't see anybody going back to their pre-FP costume though
>>78481284
I think people do have affinity for the old universe, but no one financially supports the things that brings those elements back. Titans Hunt and Lois & Clark are both failures. Hell Convergence itself didn't sell that well despite whatever hype you saw. Retailers still have tons of the tie-ins around, that's part of the reason why DCYou failed. LCSes were afraid to order too much DC after that.
>>78481334
Don't act like Teen Titans were great before.
>>78481355
Black Canary and Poison Ivy both are, but they might be the only ones.
>>78481371
Geoff Johns teen titans was great.
>>78481386
didn't that end like a decade ago
it sure hasn't been that good since then
>>78481413
Idk, I stopped being a teenager a decade ago but I'm sure it was better than the garbage that came from the relaunch
>>78481475
>I'm sure it was better than the garbage that came from the relaunch
New 52 Teen Titans are still shitty, but it wasn't much better before.
>>78481570
and let's not forget that storyline about drugs being made from children
>>78481587
That was the Titans book, not Teen Titans.
Also the Titans books are shit too.
>>78481648
Forgive me, I remember seeing the teen members bullying Osiris.
Such a mess though.
>>78481684
>Forgive me, I remember seeing the teen members bullying Osiris.
He was in Teen Titans for a while during 52, wasn't he? Then after he died and got resurrected he decided to be edgy with the Titans
>>78481725
osiris and powerboy (whatever the kids name was, i think he was a new god), damian, supergirl, and blue beetle were all wasted in regards to titans. and this is coming from a preflashpointfag
>>78481356
Frankly, I was never on board with the Nu52 from the start, not when the 'cost' was a continuity that I have been dipping into all all my life.
That said, when I say dip, I do mean dip. I own around five DC trades, all of them Bat based. I've always found that comics make awesome base material for much better and more coherent projects. Comic are cursed by having a status quo that leaves nothing having weight or consequence. "Oh no, Robin is dead... until he's not in a few years." Others projects can own their choices, and it makes compelling storytelling. Bruce in Batman Beyond ending up a lonely old man, with a heart condition, his only regular contact a SCIENCE! clone of himself made by Waller? It would have been an Elseworlds spinoff at best.
BurtonBats, the first few Reaves Superman films, the Arkham games and spinoffs, Injustice for the spinoffs if nothing else, the DCAU as a whole for the most part, for many the Nolan trilogy, Arrow, Flash. Elsewords are sometimes pretty facinating. I'm really looking forwards to the Telltale Batman game, and Batman vs Superman.
But then, I suppose for me, DC translates to 'Batman and Co'.
>>78482357
>'Batman and Co
You can tell the people in charge feel the same way.
>>78482357
I don't really mind status quo. Writers can do what they want and just have to put the toys back in the box when they're done and most of the time character growth doesn't get fully erased (though I don't consider reboots like the new 52 to be a function of status quo so maybe that's the difference between us).
>>78481161
>Now that the dust has settled can we all agree the relaunch was shit.
Nah. It was kind for some characters, not for others. Wonder Woman, for instance made out like a bandit tgrough the relaunch. Her New 52 costume is widely accepted as a fitting update to her classic costume. Save for the Finches, she's had some great stuff and has really finally risen to Superman/Batman level prominence. It's only going to get higher, since women all over are crazy excited for her movie appearance.
>They've even spent the last 3 years trying to go back to pre-nu52 in terms of looks and story.
Appearance-wise, not really. Just looking at the Justice League: Superman is getting the workman collar back but his costume is largely the New 52. Batman's and Wonder Woman's is the New 52. Green Lantern, Flash and Aquaman is the New 52.
Story wise, it's pretty much expected they kept some of the "greatest hits" cannon (Killing Joke) but I can't think of much they're rolling back really.
>It was a huge flop.
Nope. It was a necessary step. Were there growing pains? Sure. But from a quality perspective they're putting out some of the best stuff they've done in years. Shame the market is being drowned out in Star Wars and cheap marketing tricks from Marvel that's beginning to make the retailers suffer now too:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/tilting-at-windmills-trouble-on-the-horizon
>>78481284
>People wanted the old dc back so fucking hard.
A very small niche of neckbeards in wanted the old DC back. Sales of Lois and Clark, Titans Hunt and Convergence point out as much. DC's fine for updating it's world and characters for a new generation didn't hurt them.
>>78481334
>They butchered the teen titans. Both attempts.
Teen Titans hasn't been good since the 80s. You don't know shit.
>Same with suicide squad.
Suicide Squad's actually been pretty good since the New Suicide Squad rebood starting with the League extremists.
>>78481161
I think the relaunch wasn't nearly as thought out as it should have been, but on the all it did revitalize DC.
really their problem is that they aren't relaunching every year like Marvel and that's why their sales are down.
>>78483094
I think the problem a lot of people have is that many of the good arcs that happened in the new 52 didn't require a boot to happen. Like the very example that you pointed in out in WW certainly could have been in the old continuity, I'm not even sure what JMS was doing during his run back then anyway. You don't need a universe changing story to do an origin reboot, Superman had like 3 or 4 between COIE and Flashpoint.
I've come to terms with the new 52 at this point, but that argument has always felt weird to me.
>>78483305
>I think the problem a lot of people have is that many of the good arcs that happened in the new 52 didn't require a boot to happen.
The thing about western comics is that the classic heros have gone through so many creative changes through their timespan that it doesn't matter if you reboot or not. There are good stories and bad, good portrayals of the character and bad, and so on depending on the writer.
The amount of people that cared about the entire continuity of a now 75 year old character like Grant Morrison is pretty much an ultra-niche segment of the readership. For myself, when I read a good Batman story I just think it's a good story about Batman. I don't see him as silver age Batman, post-Crisis Batman, New 52 Batman, etc. It's just Batman.
If it was one writer writing Batman for the entirety of his existence, I'd care about continuity. So I'm fine with a reboot if it means having a new generation of writers bring new ideas to a classic character updated for a new generation. Plus it's not like anyone's taking away the old stories I enjoyed in the past. I can read them again and enjoy them any time I want.
>>78483682
For me reboots matter because they change how relationships between characters, supporting casts, and other franchises can be played upon. It's not really about whether x or y happened (and I think that kind of autism is misguided, since as you mentioned you can just go back and read things again if that's what you want), as much as it is providing framing to the things in current stories. Continuity isn't about tone or interpretation to me. It's entirely contextual.
I would agree
>>78481161
Those who alienate old fans to bring in new, deserve neither.
>>78481296
Im certainly never buying DC precisely because of Nu52
So this was pretty much all for nothing. If they dont want my money this badly, Ill be happy to oblige
>>78481356
Am a retailer. Can confirm. I couldn't give away my convergence back issues at this point.
>>78483094
>updating it's world and characters for a new generation
Fuck the new generation.
If pre-Nu52 was good enough for us, it's good enough for them. We were here first, and DC threw us under the bus
>>78485871
It didn't even really update anything. If he actually believed that he fell for the hype.
Something major about the New 52 being a failure was the time line was not as well planned as they could have made it. They decided that from the moment the new 52 started that superheroes would have been around for 5 years. The issue, however, being that DC wanted to keep some popular stories in continuity (the Geoff Johns green lantern stuff up until brightest day, grant Morrison Batman inc which included final crisis despite the fact final crisis never occurred, EVERY FUCKING ROBIN from grayson to Damian, despite the fact it wouldn't have worked and Damien being ten years old when batman was active for 5 years, a death in the family, ect)
A lot of continuity was dumped out to recreate characters. Just look at superman. The teen titans were not a thing up until the new 52 series but speedy asks star fire if she remembers being in a team with some of the junior heroes.
The new 52 was not DC's finest hour.But that does not mean that it was utter shiy. We got some good stories out of it. But one day they're going to revert the continuity back to what it once was. I thought convergence would do that but I was wrong. And DC did actually have a back door from the very start in case the new 52 was not successful. In Flashpoint issue 5, Pandora appeared and said some cryptic shit which I originally thought was gonna be a undoing of the new 52 but due to its success it became trinity war.
>>78483094
>thinking women care about BvS
>>78485978
Agree with you, especially first paragraph.
Still, New 52 gave me GOAT Aquaman, so whatever. I never liked Robins, anyway.
Relaunching was a good idea, their execution of it was shit. But there are plenty of good stories post-reboot so it's not a big deal.
Initial execution was pretty bad, a lot of the titles were fucking awful, some titles were really good though, Justice League books started out really good.
Although they had the numbers for a while they fell, but right now DC is better than it has been in the last 10 years.
I hope they renumbering goes well
