Can Harper Row be fixed?
I remember being really intrigued by her as a new character in Court of Owls, but she's just being handled so lazily that it feel impossible not to see her as entitled and forced.
I remember she was some sort of street punk, when did she become a shadow runner?
>>78372687
The fact that she has a biological brother and her hair being blue/purple are the most unique things about her.
And yes she is very whiny and entitled now. She was mostly just there in Batman Eternal, so if nobody really sets her straight than I'm going to assume it's just her character now and she's shit.
Well she's getting sent over to the Batgirl series after B&R: Eternal, so we'll see where that takes her.
Of course if Fletcher and Stewart stay on the title, she can only get worse.
>>78373226
>Well she's getting sent over to the Batgirl series after B&R: Eternal, so we'll see where that takes her.
>Of course if Fletcher and Stewart stay on the title, she can only get worse.
Actually that might be the best thing for her because she wouldn't be allowed to be the whiny one there. That's Babs' job.
>>78373410
>yfw Harper ends up whining twice as much to make Babs look good
I remember her being ok in Bombshells?
>>78373226
Fletcher isn't the problem, his other books are fine.
>>78373493
She's pretty much just an upbeat and determined girl in Bombshells, and she and the other Batgirls had some very cute art.
So yeah she was inoffensive there.
>>78373226
>A photo of several people
>Holding the camera portrait style
Who are these monsters?
>>78373493
>Fletcher isn't the problem, his other books are fine.
I looked into some of the other books that Stewart has been on, and he's been a part of some amazing runs, but always as artist. Other than Batgirl, every time he's a writer it's literally-who tier.
>>78373668
I mean Black Canary (not amazing, but it's fine if a little boring) and Gotham Academy (bretty gud though Cloonan deserves a lot of the credit)
>>78373738
Those are both Fletcher.
>>78372687
Possibly. I think she was ultimately meant to be a Nightwing/Dick replacement, with certain aspects of other character traits thrown into the mix.
>>78372733
Sometime during Batman Eternal he became a new Bat partner and family member.
>>78373226
I can't help but think that /co/ has confused Fletcher for this huge tumble SJW and has taken a contrarian stance towards his Batgirl run for it.
>>78375222
As the other anon pointed out, Fletcher isn't the problem. Stewart is. It's also not contrarian to say that Batgirl is really shittily written and nothing nothing above mediocre.
>>78373837
>I think she was ultimately meant to be a Nightwing/Dick replacement
Why? For reasons other than she wears blue.
>>78375291
>its shit
But it's not really shit. You can not like the book anon but stop acting like an average title is the worst thing ever.
>>78375624
>an average title
I'm not gonna say it;s Lobdell bad, but "average" is giving it way too much credit. All of the characters are annoying and Babs spends half her time complaining about shit instead of doing shit. That's to say nothing of the first arc (so half the run) having a villain that is literally themed around Tinder. The whole comic feels like the writers are trying *really* hard to appeal to "the kids" but are doing it by checking off a list.
>>78375291
>Shittily written
It's weak but it's not shit and to the stewart's credit it's only been weak as of lately. I think he and babs had one clear story planned out together but now bab's is doing her own thing and just exploring Barbara and Frankie's bodies and the plot is playing second fiddle.
>>78373837
>Possibly. I think she was ultimately meant to be a Nightwing/Dick replacement, with certain aspects of other character traits thrown into the mix.
It seems like in the period after Damien died, none of the writers were on the same page, multiple successors as Bats' sidekicks were being foreshadowed, only for Damien to come back, leaving the writers unsure of what to do with the characters they introduced.
Like, remember how we had Earth-0 Carrie Kelly clearly building towards something? The fuck happened to her? I feel like Bluebird was meant to be part of the main Batman titles, not just the Eternal stuff, as well.
>>78375924
Carrie was removed because DC asked Miller and Miller wanted to write more stuff with her.
Also he says Carrie is like the closest thing he'd ever have for a daughter or something. So yeah I don't think he'd appreciate DC having full reign over her to slaughter in the next batcrossover.
>>78375790
>all the characters are annoying
According to your subjectve taste. What do you consider annoying and why should it be consider objectively annoying?
>babs spend half her time complaining about shit instead of doing shit
I don't agree with this critique. Babs is always moving in this book and is always tackling problems with hardly a complaint.
>literally themed around tinder
Well now you're just sprouting nonsense. The villain was literally themed around Barbara's brain and is narrative sense is themed around her tragic history. The villain did use some kind of social media as a means to put a entore neighborhood into a surveillance state so I can see how you can be confused about it.
>>78372687
No the only good thing she's ever been a part of was when Batman beat the shit out of her.
>>78375924
>multiple successors as bats' sidekicks were being foreshadowed
What fucking vultures.
>>78372687
Like always, good writing. They've forgotten to make her an interesting character within the story and just treat her as a special snowflake.
>>78373226
Is Steph at all in it?
>>78376283
She was in the latest issue and she had an ok page
>>78375924
Carrie got written out because Miller was going to write TDK3 for DC and didn't want her appearing elsewhere.
>>78375953
>Carrie was removed because DC asked Miller and Miller wanted to write more stuff with her.
Yeah, but this was Earth-0 Kelly. Miller's is Earth-Miller Kelly. I don't see a reason why there couldn't be more than one version of a character running around, from that standpoint.
I guess I can understand it more from a standpoint of respect for Miller's wishes, the same way DC has that gentleman's agreement to not use Gaiman's Sandman characters without his consent, but I dunno, when you create a character under an unambiguous work-for-hire contract, it doesn't seem like they can really be your "baby." Like, it's not like Marv Wolfman is the only guy who gets to write Tim Drake.
>>78376306
Funny you should mention Wolfman because it seems like he's the only person who gets to write Raven solo. He wrote her last mini, it supposed to write her upcoming one, and he's said she is his favorite Titan that he created.
>>78376306
>it's not like Marv Wolfman is the only guy who gets to write Tim Drake.
I don't think this is a fair comparison because Miller was writing an elseworld that would theoretically never tie into any other author's stories. Tim was explicitly created for the main canon.
>>78372687
What's the point of wearing a fucking mask when you have such a distinctive haircut and piercings that any thug could pick you out in a crowd?
>>78376402
It is a comic book.
>>78376373
>she is his favorite titan that he created
Then why does he suck so bad at writing her?
>>78376402
They're not that distinctive.
>>78376373
And here I thought that honor went to Danny Chase.
>>78376412
Some writers shouldn't write their favorite characters. Bendis and Kitty, Devin Grayson and Dick Grayson, etc.
Also Wolfman has just been a shitty writer for the best few decades. Raven in the original NTT was pretty good until he continued using Trigon and mindrape and she just started going in circles.
Personally I feel she just came in too late in an otherwise full Bat Family. But then again I wish Damian was never created and that Dick was never unmasked so what do I know?
>>78376306
Look at it this way: DC just thought it be a cool idea to finally introduce Carrier to the main cannon. Then Frank told them he's interested in making another sequel to one of DC's biggest hits and asked that Carrie wouldn't be used elsewhere since he's going to prominently feature her in the sequel.
>>78376441
I kinda like having Raven being a serial Mindrapist but it needs to ber her own thing and not Trigon mindraping by using Raven as a proxy.
>>78376521
I would love a writer who can make Raven her own Demon, letting her have her own personal inner darkness.
>>78376480
Yeah if Harper had appeared before Steph became Batgirl we wouldn't think she was so unnecessary, if not just because we'd be used to her by this point. Though Harper is just a whinier Steph now. Being gay with Cass and writers flip flopping on her skill level and everything.
>>78376521
This holy shit
Get rid of Trigon and just make Raven a villain at this point. She's done more harm than good in every major storyline of hers. Or most storylines really.Also Raven mindraping would be sexier if she were doing it herself
>>78376599
Harper's only problem is that she's fairly new character who has not been that well established yet and she's mostly been prominently used oin both Eternal books. Since both Eternal books are written by a committee on a switching writer basis and going by cliff notes version of the main characters, Harper's getting the short end of the stick.
/co/ has been bitching about her for awhile now just because she's got an edgy look and it is frankly idiotic. If Snyder would bother to write her in his Batman we wouldn't have this problem but apparently he's handed her out to Tynion who's, well, mediocre at best writer so the results aren't that good.
>>78376599
Yeah just have her go full anti-christ and transform her into a dark messianic figure who turns her friends into her satanic acolytes.
>>78376728
>/co/ has been bitching about her for awhile now just because she's got an edgy look and it is frankly idiotic
You said it yourself: due to whatever circumstances, her personality/character is almost non-existent, so all we have to judge her on is her appearance, which sucks.
>>78372687
her only unique traits are her dye job and the fact that she has a brother.
She's bland, whiny and an obvious example of pandering.
>>78373226
>everyone is smug tumblr cunt
>Stephanie is just happy to be there
>>78376840
Pandering to Snyder's dick more then pandering to any sort of group. Since he really places her above any bat family members who should be more important than her. There's having characters you like and then there's having characters you think are the best idea in the world.
>>78376837
/co/ started hating on Harper since day once when she was just a kid with a nose ring, and especially when people thought she was going to replace Dick after Forever Evil. Sure, she's not a terrific character by any stretch of imagination at the moment, but neither is she the cancer the board insists she is. She's just a mediocre minor character in badly written books, not inherently bad character.
>>78376931
she's rather obviously an attempt at snyder adding his legacy to the bat family. Why he assumed a generic punk with a bad hair do would have any lasting value, especially when he goes out of his way to insist she's special and unique I dunno.
>>78376963
she is yet another flash in the pan addition to bat family.
remember the literally retarded batgirl who couldn't read because she had brain damage?
neither do I.
>>78376994
She became a bat family member when Batman at the time WASN'T accepting bat family members because Damien died.
>>78376994
>she's rather obviously an attempt at snyder adding his legacy to the bat famil
She only exists because he couldn't get Cass for Eternal.
>>78376963
Well she's redundant is what she is. Last thing we needed was another batkid sidekick riding on Batman's cape and Harper Row is a familiar old tune that's been played by better characters and she doesn't really bring much new to the table to really justify her stay.
>>78376994
>she's rather obviously an attempt at snyder adding his legacy to the bat family.
Then why are people not bitching about Duke Thomas as much?
>>78376994
>remember the literally retarded batgirl who couldn't read because she had brain damage?
Cassandra Cain?
>>78377020
So basically Tim Drake?
>>78376994
>>78377056
How could you forget about Cassandra Cain? Her fans don't shut up about her.
>>78377030
Nah, Strix was the Cassandra stand-in replacement Snyder had made, not Harper, then again Harper might be attempt number 2.
>>78377077
Strix was created by Gail Simone.
>>78377077
Oh wait I'm wrong, disregard this, but still Cass clones being a thing is pretty weird.
>>78376728
>If Snyder would bother to write her in his Batman
People would start bitching about Snyder caring more about his OCs and leaving out their favorite characters.
>>78377050
There ARE people who hate and complain about Duke. These people are scared Damian's gonna be replaced and are angry that Duke has shown up in Batman more than Damian.
>>78376963
>/co/ started hating on Harper since day once
To be fair she was literally introduced to us with this
>>78377075
Never read about her, I'm pretty new to Batfamily.
>>78377139
I don't really care about Duke, I just don't think we need anymore Robins.
Keep Barbra crippled as oracle
Undo the Nightwing unmasking
Have steph come in way late
Write Damian out of existence
Keep Tim
Keep Jason
Batwoman is next gen when Bruce retires
Lose Harper or make her Batwomans sidekick
There I fixed it
>>78377175
If you undid the Nightwing unmasking you'd have King fans bitching "N-NO, DICK IS ONLY GOOD AS AN AGENT."
>>78377175
Oracle and losing Harper are the only good ideas there.
>>78377175
Frankie is Oracle now.
>>78377175
Just admit it, you want Batwoman to molest Harper.
>>78377144
Yes, and?
>>78377267
Surely he's not depraved enough to want somebody to touch Harper?
>>78377175
Hawkfire is Batwoman's sidekick.
>>78377139
>There ARE people who hate and complain about Duke.
True, but very rarely and far less vocally than about Harper.
Who the hell is duke and why is he more forgettable than Batwing?
>What about Batwing?
>What ABOUT Batwing?
>>78377328
Batwing is Luke Fox and he's on hiatus from crime fighting, and currently dating Babs.
>>78377175
Most of these ideas are terrible.
>>78377359
How would you fix it the overcrowded bat family?
>>78377359
I know, right? Keeping Jason and Tim. Ugh, just ugh. *eyeroll*
>>78377396
In better age, everyone would be in comic. Solo, team, whatever. Now we don't have that luxury, desu.
>>78377396
By splitting it up and whoring the ex-bats to other heroes.
>>78377396
Bat-senpai doesn't neex fixing. They're all oretty spread out evenly between all the bat-titles.
Spoiler is pretty much doing her own thing instead hanging on to Batman's capetails. Dick is a super secret sexy spy. Luke hangs out with Babs, who in turn is in hipsterville section of Gotham on her own. Damian's busy being on a redemption quest and isn't in Gotham much these days. Jason hangs out with Roy and does his RedArse merc thing. Tim's with the Titans, which is a fate worse than death but at least he's doing something. The only one in limbo is Batwoman, which is odd because you'd think the Eternal books would be a good place to use her if she can't support her own book.
>>78377396
Getting rid of Tim and Jason.
Keep Damian because his book his good right now and he's good with Dick instead of Bruce.
>>78377396
- forcefully "retire" Jason or Tim. Probably the later since he's in a worst place at the moment than Jason. Then have him be Oracle-lite along with Julia. Have them be the tech-savy one who connects all the Bat Family.
- Damian put on Teen Titans, but otherwise keep his ongoing as is.
- Use We Are Robin as a Network of spies to feed intell in Gotham or more.
- Put Steph, Harper, and Cassandra in a group. They handle the gangland and mob level crimes in Gotham. Tim assists them more than the others because given they're the younger vigilantes.
- Luke Fox handles the Bat tech and is their "Q".
- Keep Dick and Batwoman as is. Doing their own thing with the occasional team-up. More so with the former (because he, Tim, and Damain work so damn well together). Though with the later have her be a mentor to Cassandra.
- Julia is basically the lead helper for Bruce for whenever thins get real nasty.
- Barbara does her thing does whatever she's doing in Burnside.
- Keep Azrael (Jean Paul Valley) and Jason as a loose cannons.
>>78377532
>kill off characters instead of fixing them
What are you, Bendis?
>>78378287
>- Keep Azrael (Jean Paul Valley) and Jason as a loose cannons.
Or put them on team with edgy Bat-related characters, Suicide Squad style. Bonus if Batman doesn't know about them. You could easily have Tim as Oracle there. Two flies with one squash and all.
>>78377144
Average tumblr user
>>78377204
it's hard, because even though nightwing is a great character in theory, his run as a secret agent is the most consistently high quality stuff he's ever gotten as a solo character
>>78378755
Yep. If you had King writing as real estate agent, it'd again be awesome.
>>78376220
It was a grave error that Snyder introduced Harper in a short, nothing scene in CoO. A character's first appearance should be exciting and character defining instead of nothing.
>>78376771
That would be an interesting twist for the Teen Titans.
>>78372687
nah she's a boring character that will be forgotten after Snyder leaves, she fills no purpose in the Batfamily and Gotham heroes that other characters didn't already fill
>>78377175
>keep Tim
you mean bring back old Tim
>>78377175
how about instead
put Dick back as Batman
after Damian grows up a bit and becomes his own hero, Harper becomes Dick's new sidekick
>>78372687
I don't give a shit about harper row, she's destined to be even less of a footnote than Stephanie Brown. She's like one of those weird Batfamily members that just forgotten like Onyx or Harold.
Frankly the only thing that bothers me is she's taken Nightwing's design.
That and pretty much nothing qualifies her to be a crime fighter other than muh gay brother is bullied.
>>78377144
>septum piercing
>>78377160
>>78377292
>Hawkfire
I think that must be one of the worst super hero names and costumes ever.
>>78379393
>She's like one of those weird Batfamily members that just forgotten like Onyx or Harold.
Onyx was just like Orpheus, they were these characters you threw into Gotham but never used in anything and never really worked that much with anybody from the bat-family unless it was a crossover and they needed background characters. As for Harold, he was a weird supporting character who only existed to build shit for Bruce was written out after awhile because he served no purpose to the books.
Harper's a semi-decent sidekick who's got traction to stay as a background character after they finally figure out her specific niche gimmick that has appeal, unless of course they kill her off in a crossover but I don't see that really happening.
>>78379727
>As for Harold, he was a weird supporting character who only existed to build shit for Bruce was written out after awhile because he served no purpose to the books.
He served as much purpose as Lucius, i.e. proving Bruce and Alfred aren't complete Jacks of All Trades that manage every aspect of the Batman's operation. In general, having an extended crew that wasn't made up of former sidekicks was kind of nice. I miss it.
>Harper's a semi-decent sidekick who's got traction to stay as a background character after they finally figure out her specific niche gimmick that has appeal
That's the problem. Her entire niche is being the ultra-modern sidekick, with the dyed hair and piercings and gay-bashed brother. Even her one saving grace, the fact that her punk appearance was just a facade, was dropped after her first appearance. Now she's just another snarker who only appears when the city's facing a major crisis. You're telling me that's "semi-decent"?
>>78379466
Might come in handy. Thanks, anon.
>>78380967
There should be at least 1 torrent with Cass's whole pre-FP run.
>>78381135
Cass a cute
>>78381232
Indeed.
>>78380944
>You're telling me that's "semi-decent"?
As far as Batman sidekicks go, yeah. I mean, Jason was originally started out as "he's just like Dick Grayson, but a redhead!" after all. These things take time, especially in the era of writing for the trade.
>>78381232
Yes. Yes she is.
