Who is the most overrated comic artist?
He's great. Played out a bit because of so many covers, but massively talented.
This hack
warren ellis
Cassaday or Hitch
>>78351056
>alex ross
>draws legitimately good
>overrated
go back to your chinese comics you fucking turd
Rocafort
>>78351096
>Cassaday
agreed
>>78351119
whoa... no shot, he's damned good
>>78351056
Ross gets way too much hate here to be overrated.
>>78351056
>He's great.
>>78351109
>>draws legitimately good
He copies directly from photos of people posing and is incapable of depicting anyone actually doing something. His art is completely lifeless and static.
Please post some of his work that depicts someone actually doing something and not just posing.
>>78351153
I understand and even agree with some of the complaints leveled against him, but certain stories with certain tones really benefit from his style in my opinion
He sure as shit isn't overrated here though, that's for sure.
>>78351191
Do please give us an example of an acceptable alternative
Ross changed the game too with Marvels and Kingdom Come. It was an exciting time.
>>78351215
>>78351056
I'm hardly qualified to criticize art, but I'm not a fan of Frank Quitely's style. He makes everything look soft and squishy.
Ross's art is really cool, but I do get bored of it after a while.
Also Capullo. Most of the time it's awesome, but he has problems with sameface and dead eyes.
>>78351191
>He copies directly from photos of people posing and is incapable of depicting anyone actually doing something.
I'm not going to dispute this, but at least he takes his own reference photos instead of tracing porn or stock images.
>>78351119
His paneling is usually ass and the random shapes around the borders are annoying, but he draws such pretty people.
>>78351215
Other examples of comic book painters?
I'm personally partial to Jon J. Muth, Kent Williams and George Pratt.
>>78351283
paneling is also my biggest beef with Rocafort. He's just so fucking bad at it. So much so that I often have no idea what fucking order to read them in
>>78351056
Scott "Sameface" Campbell
>>78351215
Literally anything that isn't a direct copy from a photo of someone posing is better at conveying movement than Ross' still life shit.
>>78351261
This looks like some deviantart cheap trash
>>78351273
I don't like Quietly's style either, or Alex Ross', or the guy who did this.
>>78351465
frazer irving
>>78351191
>He copies directly from photos of people posing
Photos he fucking sets up and takes himself. He only does that because it's easier than having someone stand there for hours up hours in a fake costume. And he really only does it so he can get the fabric to look right. You don't know shit about art or artists.
I see people fawning over Ivan Reis, I don't get it.
Jim Lee
Steve McNiven
Andy Kubert
J.G. Jones
current Bryan Hitch
Ariel Olivetti
JR Jr. depending who's inking him
frank miller, post-sin city
he used to be pretty great, but his style just got sloppy and almost a parody of itself by TDKSA and by 2015 its just laughable
it could be the cancer but i dont know enough about cancer to comment on that
>>78351507
Using references and models is one thing, but Ross might as well be tracing.
Having people pose and then directly copying the photos is absolutely terrible for anything that involves people actually doing shit and is creatively bankrupt. None of the characters ever actually interact, don't mesh with their environments, and exist entirely in their own little world devoid of anything or anyone else. It's also horrible for depicting a sequence of events.
Again, post some of Ross' work where any of the people look like they're actually doing something.
I don't know about "most overrated" but I think Babs Tarr is below average despite a bunch of people jizzing (literally) over her downs syndrome looking characters
>>78351781
>ethnic cripple with sidecut
Is she a lesbian tranny too?
Klaus Janson (as a penciller)
Howard Chaykin
>>78351690
>Ross might as well be tracing
Except he's not tracing. Ross can do all his art by hand and doesn't really need models for most of his work. Even his very quick sketches (see pic) is better than the final pieces of the vast majority of comic artists. He has a very exacting and realistic style and uses reference models to get the extra-fine details (clothing folds, etc.) right. Reference models have been used by artists for ages outside comics. There is nothing wrong with what he's doing.
>>78351781
The art you posted seems 7/10 for me, could definitely use some refining but otherwise not half bad
>>78351837
I have yet to encounter anyone with anything nice to say about modern Chaykin.
>>78351690
Except you can't trace while painting dumb fuck.
> None of the characters ever actually interact, don't mesh with their environments, and exist entirely in their own little world devoid of anything or anyone else.
That is the biggest load of fucking bull...
>>78352398
The anatomy is horrible
>>78351056
Never really liked ross. Always looks like old people doing bad cosplay.
>>78351399
No its not better because 90% of those people won't render their art a billionth as well as Ross does.
>>78352361
I'm not saying that he's a bad artist but that what he chooses to depict is horrible, especially for a medium like comics. His reliance on photo references causes his characters to be completely lifeless and incapable of interacting with anything else. It comes out looking like a collage with characters cut out from separate sources and pasted onto a new background.
>>78352517
>That is the biggest load of fucking bull...
Then post some fucking examples like I asked an hour ago >>78351191
>>78351781
>downs syndrome looking characters
Tarr's characters are pretty cartoony (which is fine for a teen - early 20s book like Batgirl) and cute. Attached is downs face.
>>78351836
She has muscular dystrophy and met Babs when she started going through physical therapy after being crippled by the Joker. They don't really play that side of her much (if at all) so I'm fine with her since it's pretty innocuous.
>>78351584
>he used to be pretty great, but his style just got sloppy and almost a parody of itself by TDKSA and by 2015 its just laughable
The guy has cancer, Jesus.
Gail Simone
>>78352586
I don't have to, I literally can not recall any time where I don't belive his characters are interacting or feel out of place like your claiming.
You don't like realistic art that's fine that means that it's not to your taste, not that it is actually flawed now fuck off to mother fucking hell.
>>78352527
>Cartoon style art.
>Hurr the anatomy proportions are all off.
No shit.
>>78351836
Nah, the tranny is the girl next to her. Her reveal was legitimately just her saying "Barbara, I'm transexual."
>>78351152
Rocafort is a great artist with shit design aesthetics (pic, Nubo, Teen Titans, etc.)
>>78352719
>I literally can not recall any time where I don't belive his characters are interacting or feel out of place like your claiming.
So you're just too retarded to notice how shitty it is and you don't have any examples to back up your point?
>You don't like realistic art that's fine that means that it's not to your taste,
There is nothing realistic about how the characters are depicted. Their body posture, positioning, inability to interact with their surroundings or others, and the complete lack of any movement is not realistic in any way.
>not that it is actually flawed
It is massively flawed. Pictures of people posing that have been cut out and slapped onto a collage.
>now fuck off to mother fucking hell.
You sure are mad about this.
>>78352882
1.) That image is by Brett Booth not Rocafot.
2.) Weren't the Titans designed by Booth also?
3.) And Wonder Girl's new 52 outfit is great when the armor isn't all spiked out.
>>78351096
>>78351131
Something.... happened to Cassaday. His work on Planetary is fucking GOAT and he's much more responsible for Astonishing X-Men's greatness than Whedon. Not sure if he just stopped giving a fuck or if he can't deal with deadlines but I remember when this cover came out it was like the beginning of the end for him. It's like he forgot how to draw.
>>78353001
The rendering, detail and depth Is realistic.
Being stiff (which I concede some of his art is) doesn't equal lifeless, I find immeasurably more life in his lushly and realisticly rendered faces than a hundred hyper exaggerated Ramos or Cooke Faces.
> characters don't interact...
Look at Diana twirling Clarks hair in between her fingers for fuck's sake...
JRJR all day, every day.
>>78351273
quitely is top tier
>overrated
A stupid term developed by people who wanna feel special for not liking something.
>>78353189
Kinda like what you're doing with this thread?
>>78353116
Ugh, his Captain America work that came out about 911 was so fucking good...
>>78353176
Last time this got posted an anon pointed out that you literally can't tell if Giant Man is supposed to be using his powers or not and I spit my drink from laughing
>>78353163
>Look at Diana twirling Clarks hair in between her fingers for fuck's sake...
It looks like shit.
So does her interaction with the horse and the dog licking his face.
>>78351273
Absolutely agree.
I genuinely think he is 85% HORRID.
His Aquaman & Martian Manhunter where OK in the Crime Syndicate book he did but otherwise... yeah...
>>78353242
The image you posted came out in 2007...
>>78353282
> Their appears to be pressure asserted against Clarks face from the dog's snout...
> Diana's hand cast a shadow as it hovers over the horse...
I really don't get what the fuck you want from him man...
>>78353291
I know I'm just saying he used to be so good.
>>78351690
>Using references and models is one thing, but Ross might as well be tracing.
Not even close. He doesn't fucking have photos for every panel he draws, just for big shots like this.
>>78353001
>Their body posture, positioning, inability to interact with their surroundings or others, and the complete lack of any movement is not realistic in any way.
wut
>>78352563
I don't see you making bank doing art for marvel and dc so shut your fucking mouth you prick
Jim Lee
his art is garbage, I've wiped my ass with finer things
>>78353325
>> Their appears to be pressure asserted against Clarks face from the dog's snout...
No, the cheeks are symmetrical and the ridge under his eyes is symmetrical.
>> Diana's hand cast a shadow as it hovers over the horse...
That's just shading, Horses are big animals and her hand could never be that close to her and that far from the horse's cheek if there was an actual horse's head in between her hand and chest.
>>78353451
Panel 1:
>woman posing, not giving a fuck about the spiders instead of frantically trying to get them off her
Panels 2, 3, 4, & 5:
>man and woman posing
Panel 6:
>man posing with shocked expression
Panel 7:
>actually interesting since it's not copied directly from a reference.
None of them appear to be speaking at all despite the dialogue.
>>78353842
I don't think you know what posing is.
>>78352877
It was supposed to be this sweet things where she shares a secret in return for Babs telling he she's batgirl.
But this was back when Simone was still kinda brain damaged, so it was really bad.
>>78351781
Yeah, no.
Sorry.
>>78352563
I think what you're saying is that his style doesn't lend itself to the implied movement that is a hallmark of the comic format?
At least, that's what I think you're trying to say? I'm not versed enough to speak on it (though Kingdom Come has been sitting on my shelf for a month taunting me).
OP is a fucking troll don't feed him. every writer would want Ross to do there work. fucking millenials. "her hand is not that close to the horse" stfu
>>78353242
The coloring and inking is fantastic.
>>78353842
The funny thing is Ross didn't even draw JUSTICE. He just painted over someone elses pencils. Just shows all you're doing is parroting the same dumbass 'criticism' that gets brought up in every thread about comic art and someone mentions Alex Ross and you can't even elaborate on any of it.
>>78353945
Asking someone to pose for a photo as though they're performing a certain act and in a certain manner often looks nothing like someone actually doing said act.
If you took a picture of someone pretending they're frozen in place while doing something and compared it to still frames of a video of them actually doing the act you'd spot the difference instantly. They also aren't behaving in a realistic manner.
>>78354039
>I think what you're saying is that his style doesn't lend itself to the implied movement that is a hallmark of the comic format?
>At least, that's what I think you're trying to say?
You're pretty much exactly right.
>>78354102
>The funny thing is Ross didn't even draw JUSTICE.
Guess that's why the last panel is actually interesting.
>>78354145
Nothing in those pages looks any more like a pose than any other comic art. Lets see some of these fluid and natural books you seem so fond of.
>>78351056
JRJR outside of /co/.
His art is so fucking plain-looking and lazy.
>>78351273
>>78351465
>>78353286
Shit taste detected
>>78351056
Jack Kirby tb.h fa.h. I know all you guys jerk off to him but I think his blocky same face art sucks.
>>78353116
Well i thought he started his decline with astonishing xmen
The designs in planetary were so intricate and and dynamic. But Ord's design was retarded looking all of those aliens looked stupid, and what about that metal cocoon with casandra's goo body? It was just a basic hexagon. I will say some things he did well but that's when I noticed things starting to suck
>>78354184
Damn near every other artist conveys movement and realistic character and object interactions better than Ross.
He can only paint pretty still life pictures from references. His work is terrible for a medium like comics.
Rob Liefeld maybe a shit artist but everything he said about Ross was correct
>>78354321
Pleb ass bitch.
>>78354408
You're so pleb it hurts to talk to you.
Ross just does pinup art. He can't do funny book story telling. Plus all he draws is people that look super old
>>78354548
>He can't do funny book story telling.
I take it you're a fan of the Marvel Comedy Universe.
>>78354184
>>78354408
The only thing people praise about Ross is the photorealism. Nothing else about his work is great or even mediocre. People don't ever act the way Ross depicts them and his character interactions are downright horrible.
>>78351056
I've only seen scans but Alex Ross always looked like old men in shitty cosplay standing still to me.
>>78354408
Not if you want realism and rendering that is as close to perfection as you can get in you comics.
> If I don't like something, it should not be available to anyone...
Fuck off shit stain...
It's hard for me to tell if DC has good artists anymore with all those shit designs.
>>78354548
Except their is not a single moment in Kingdom come where I could not understand what was taking place panel to panel there for he does the story telling perfectly fucking fine faggot.
>>78354559
:^)
>>78351056
Good things should be overrated.
>>78354563
>People don't ever act the way Ross depicts them
What exactly is not normal about this page? Is the image you posted supposed to show how real people act? Because that's clearly cartoony exaggerations of character interaction.
Alex Ross is good at very specific things.
If you want a story to invoke a sense of grandeur or nostalgia he's a good pick, he works well with characters like Captain Marvel and he's great at pin-up art. On the other hand the way he stages his scenes aren't that dynamic compared to a lot of the more stylized artists in comics, who aren't limited to relying on photo-realistic reference photos for all their work and can exaggerate reality a bit more.
He's a perfect choice for Kingdom Come but you obviously wouldn't put him on fucking Spiderman or something.
>>78351109
>liking overdecorated lifeless models posing
wow cause comic book ilustration its all about pretty colors rigth?
>>78354678
>implying I wouldn't read the fuck out of Alex Ross Spider-Man
>>78354708
It's about putting a visual with the words that doesn't make me want to vomit.
>>78354755
the problem with ross is that his drawings are great and really cool, but the become so dull and make the read painfull, yeah his is great doing drawing but take them out of the comics cause also his panels are shit.
>>78354813
>but the become so dull and make the read painfull
That's a nice opinion you've got there.
>>78354730
>that pic
wow lock, nothing
>>78351191
Copying from photos is something artists do all the time dummy
>>78354826
i guess all the facts have been given in the thread, you can like ross he draws pretty, but not good.
>>78354525
Are you using this as an example of Ross being good? Animals and people don't fucking act that way. How is the elephant's stomach not pushed inward by all it's weigh resting on Supe's hands? Why is the lion's mouth closed when trying to bite or is it just cuddling Superman consider that dumb fucking smile he has? Why is a male lion on the hunt with the females? I don't even know WTF is going on with the rhino.
There's nothing more pleb than capeshit.
>>78354670
The kid with one leg holding onto the railing isn't balanced right at all. his posture is clearly that of someone standing on two legs. Even braced against an object nobody carries their weight on one leg like that.
The mine clearing is not done like that in the real world. Where are their marking flags or maps and why are they standing around all scattered instead of sticking to a sweeping pattern?
>that's clearly cartoony exaggerations of character interaction.
How is gesticulating while talking "cartoony"?
>>78354730
>generic heroic action poses
>one arm out and up with the other back and lower
>>78351056
>Alex Ross
>Overrated
What the hell kind of standards do you have?
>>78354850
What facts - you realize you're in the vast minority right? And it's clear from your 'criticsms' that you don't know shit about art.
ITT: contrarian hipsters shun gold for shit
>>78354848
of course, when they practice or want to get a good pose or detail, but it also implies creativity and putting something yours in the drawing, ross feels dull and soulless cause he doesnt adds himself to his work, he only keeps overpolishing the pics, at the end you get a something similar to a comicbook with a lot of color ballons stamped on it.
>This one queer losing his shit because everyone thinks Ross is overrated
>>78354864
>There's nothing more pleb than capeshit
>>>/a/, don't forget to take your shit opinions with you.
>>78354897
>everyone
Nah, it's just the faggy hipsters.
>>78354867
>you are the minority so you are wrong
oh boy, I said it ross can cipy cool and know the human body millions ways batter than I can dream off rigth now and even further, but at the end its just like a guy who can fullfill are really crazy puzzle, amazing but dull.
>>78354864
>How is gesticulating while talking "cartoony"?
Because it's extremely exaggerated. People don't do that when having conversations.
>There's nothing more pleb than capeshit.
Anime the literal definition of over-the-top exaggeration of human interaction.
>generic heroic action poses
>Spider-Man in a pose that literally every Spider-Man artist has drawn him in
>it's only bad when Alex Ross does it because reasons
>>78354891
>>78351191
is referencing really that bad a thing to do? A lot of classic and renowned painters do it.
>>78351191
>He copies directly from photos of people posing and is incapable of depicting anyone actually doing something.
Do you even art? All artists use models to get proper anatomy, shading, etc. They don't have to, but to do what Alex Ross is doing, which is bringing a more realistic look to comics, you need models to stand there in costume to do it accurately.
Even with models, you still need a lot of technical skill to do what he does.
Seriously if you don't know anything about art, why do you even bother with your uninformed opinions?
>>78351056
>Who is the most overrated comic artist?
Jim Lee
>>78354943
>Because it's extremely exaggerated.
Have you seen people talk to each other?
And why are you and >>78354904 bringing up anime?
The two examples I posted were from Bone and 100 Bullets.
>>78354966
Where did this "Jim Lee is so overrated" meme come from?
>>78354949
no man dont get me wrong, using the reference its almost a need, but you add and you take from it. look at your pic and you will see, specially that pin up, how they actually work it out. now add the fact that ross also works in illustration he needs to feel narrative.
>>78354929
So you can't even come up with your own criticism, you have to resort to parroting a screencap of someone else's post who also doesn't know shit about art. Ross's model references are incredibly crude, he shows them off all the time in his books, he doesn't have one for every single panel, he only does it to get a sense of how superhero costuming might look on a real person.
>>78354943
>Because it's extremely exaggerated. People don't do that when having conversations.
reallistic=/=better rememeber comics are a narrative media you need to make your reader know whats going on exaggerating its a normal way to do it, that "cartoony" way its that makes it even more relatable than soulless dummies posing.
>>78354949
>>78354955
Using models and refferences isn't a bad thing. It becomes bad when you rely on them as much as Ross does then repeatedly assemble them together in a collage. Comics are a medium that requires a conveyance of movement and Ross' choice of references, over reliance on them, and how he assembles them together is terrible for that.
>>78355029
Maybe it's because I'm an Arab, but I see plenty of gesticulation when people are talking.
>>78355017
but that was my own crictisism anon, the drawing and flow to compute with the narrative of the comicbook, but its ok you can like things I dont like, but that he migth not be a good comic book artist in despite of being a good drawer/puzzle solver, thats a fact.
>>78354983
>Have you seen people talk to each other?
Yes, and they don't throw their hands all over the place and make funny faces. It's the same thing in your average hand drawn Disney movie, it's exaggerated for cartoony affect.
>reallistic=/=better
I never said it did.
>>78355073
>types out opinion
>fact
You faggots are insufferable.
>>78355085
>and they don't throw their hands all over the place and make funny faces
Actually look at other people while you're talking to them.
>>78355089
>types out fact i dont like
>hey cool opinion dude let live in a relativist world where everything its an opinion and I cant never be wrong
this guy its delusional
>>78355085
>reallistic=/=better
>I never said it did.4
Im not him so please quote the post correctly.
>>78355119
>my opinions are facts
That's right junior, I'm the delusional one.
>>78355108
He probably just stares at the ground scared shitless of making eye contact.
Seriously, just look at any arabs doing anything on youtube and watch their hands while they speak.
Or any video of people arguing.
>it's an Alex Ross thread
>>78355119
You aren't stating a fact, you're stating an opinion. What is factual about that post? You gonna tell me that da Vinci or Bellini or Rockwell aren't good because they used references and models?
>>78355108
I do. People don't act like Disney characters when I talk to them.
>>78351056
Alex Ross and that Xtatics guy
>>78355159
man I was reconsidering what I said, cause it was pretty assholish, but you can get it, the fact that im not the other anon, and that I dont have problem with ross using references, every fucking one that draw use them, my point or the "fact" that i was trying to came up with its that alex ross drawings dont work in comicbooks because of the choices he makes in the planes and poses arent dynamic or narrative, of course you can read kingdome come and understand what the fuck its going on, you arent a toddler the story its written there, its that the panels cant stay at the same level or speed of the story, thats my point man.
>>78355168
What fucking kind of people do you talk to?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UMHzNQIF20
>>78355207
American people.
And yeah, when people are arguing with each other they get more animated, but in something like this >>78353163 where it's just two people having a somber talk, they don't need to be throwing their hands around for you to get the point that a conversation is being had.
He's an excellent illustrator.
He's not a good comic artist.
Only those who actually know what intrinsically separates these professions will understand.
>>78355243
People aren't standing around stoically when talking, ever. Body language is a massive part of communication.
In that page of KC the body language is replace by object interaction. There's also a complete lack of facial or mouth movement depicted.
>>78355270
>implying that people posting on a mongolian cartoon message board understand what being a good comic artist is
I guess all those people that actually work in the industry just don't know what they are talking about.
>>78355325
There's a good reason why he does more covers than comics books. He's an illustrator first, comic artist second.
Overrated is bullshit. If you are basing your opinion of anything on the collective views of other people, you are basing it on that and not the thing itself. If the work is shitty, it's shitty. It's not shitty because it's making more money than you are right now and it doesn't deserve to.
Like Alex Ross. If you hate Alex Ross, you are a moron. The man is a fucking superhero portrait artist. He references photographs and paints poses like any other fucking portrait artist. A client will go to him and pay him to paint a capeshit portrait much like the ones he has made in the past because when you need a painting like the ones Alex Ross makes you go to fucking Alex Ross. He has a job and he does it. Anybody who is an Alex Ross hater is hating a guy who gets paid to do a fucking job. If you are a hater, say that last sentence out loud to yourself and listen to how stupid it sounds.
Guess what guys, DC doesn't belong to you. You're gonna have to deal with the cover art that you don't like to look at. If they left that decision to you it would turn out terrible because you are a terrible person with terrible opinions and you don't even know what you want.
>>78355318
Plenty of mouth movement in this>>78353451
And here's an important lesson for you hipsters: Sometimes less is more.
>>78355349
His portraits are boring as shit when they're just covers and his are is terrible for interiors.
There are plenty of people who can paint photorealisticly and do it far better than Ross and his bland bullshit.
>>78355444
How many of those people do comic book work?
>>78355345
No, it's because it takes him a long fucking time to do interiors and with today's deadlines he'd never finish. It's also why the only time ever does do interiors are with mini/maxi series that have a defined ending. he's still in very high demand.
>>78355243
"Throwing their hands around" is Clark petting his dog and Diana doing the same for the horse. They're both uncomfortable and deal with animals instead of each other as avoidance.
But then Diana breaks the impasse by a casual gesture that shows a great deal of closeness, fixing Clark's disheveled hair. Clark becomes too uncomfortable to continue and walks away, while Diana goes back to neutral and casually pets the horse again.
It makes a dialogue more interesting to see AND it gives the scene some emotional tone.
>>78355444
Show some examples and compare and contrast. You can't just make incredibly broad statements and expect to be taken seriously.
>>78355518
So you agree with me. Thanks.
So I have a question. Can non-american artists be published in Dc/marvel comics for more than illustrations or a single issue ? I would really love to work there one day, is there even a chance for foreigners ? I'm still improving and all but I think the comic style really grew on me lately. I consider jim lee as american btw.
if so, how does one try to be published there ?
>>78355535
lots of artists are Canadian and Brazilian and shit
>>78355535
Marvel and DC have a history of bringing in European artists , mostly from Spain/Italy, like Emma Rios or Alberto Ponticelli
>>78355535
>if so, how does one try to be published there ?
It's like becoming an actress in Hollywood, you gotta suck a lot of dicks.
>>78355071
>Maybe it's because I'm an Arab, but I see plenty of gesticulation when people are talking.
People who dislike Ross are literally terrorist scum.
>>78351056jack kirby
fight me faggots
>>78356777
I don't fight retarded children.
>>78351056
Esad slowpoke Ribic
Ross, Hughes, Rivera, Frank Cho, Jim Lee, Capullo, Fiona Staples.
>>78351152
Rocafort is a good artist, but not a good comic artist. His art style is too detailed for a comic book and he tends to draw things sticking out of panels a lot and little sparkles & bits of machinery and such in the gutters, so his pages become overcrowded & difficult to follow.
>>78356816
Ribic is good but yeah he gets kind of lazy sometimes... plus he's been reusing a TON of art lately in Secret Wars.
>>78354441
Liefeld isn't so bad. He's really improved. Covenant almost looks like it was drawn by a regular comic artist.
Cho
Mike Mignola. Everything about him is completely overrated.
>>78351096
This.
Both were top tier at one point and now Cassaday is just OK and Hitch currently SUCKS.
>>78357104
Cassaday is dogshit right now.
>>78351273
Quitely is great at drawing everything except people.
>>78351584
Alcoholism affects the nervous system pretty severely. Makes hand-eye coordination very difficult.
>>78351837
>Howard Chaykin
His reputation is 100% based on his work before he "retired" from comics and then later came back. Everything after that looks like a bad imitation of his classic work.
>>78353176
He changed his style from the classic Spider-Man/Daredevil/Punisher work that he did (which was GREAT) to what he calls "deadline style", i.e. drawing as fast as possible.
>>78354441
What'd he say?
>>78356777
This. Only nostalgiafags think he's great.
>>78357152
Only thing I could find with quick Googling was this.
>>78351273
>soft and squishy
i'd blame that more on the coloring or even quietlys work not mixing with color well at least
>based Francis Manapul isn't in the thread
Feels good bros
I fucking love his art
>>78354994
No one said Ross was better than Elvgren or Rockwell.
>>78351584
dude, check Holy Terror, his arts back on top game in that
>>78351056
The one you like.
Yes, that one.
>>78353176
Dude what the fucking hell is this shit?
>>78357178
>>78357152
There was a piece by Ross that had a big super fight, think it was amrvel, anyway the colouring was horrible and there was no real focus in the picture, just stuff happening. Not talkin shit bout Liefeld and Ross tho, i dig both their styles.
>>78351215
You see this? This is Moroni's "The Tailor". It's not copied from a photograph; it's painted from life. Someone posed for this. It's not about the pose, though, it's about the representative power of the image.
See, when this was done, the only people who ever got painted were the rich. Working people never did, unless they got rich, and then they posed in their finery. This guy isn't that; he's the equivalent of a guy in overalls working in a garage. To the people who would have been the original audience/buyers for this painting, that was shocking: he was representative of a world they'd never really conceived of.
But more than being representative of an alien world, this image is filled with potential. See the chalk-marks on the cloth? That marks where he's about to cut. The shears are in his hand; he's at work, much as he would be posed on any other day of his life. This is a momentary pause when he observes you entering his workshop, not a pose to show off what a great tailor he is.
Compare that to the OP image. That should be an image that tells you about each of those characters, that gives you just a fleeting glimpse of how they operate, who and what they are. But it's dead. It's static. It's just about the costumes and the painting technique, which any fine arts graduate can do to the same standard (and there's thousands of those every year).There isn't even any real depth to the image because instead of posing his models and working out where to take the photo from to get the right angle, he's just taken full-length frontals and collaged them together without any regard for perspective. It's a flaw that he could get away with in a picture of two or even three of them, but in a group this large it artificially flattens the image even though he's going to all that trouble to try and produce the illusion of depth with light and shade.
At best he's about as skilled as a 1950s ad painter.
>>78358215
>At best he's about as skilled as a 1950s ad painter.
Which is exactly why people love artists like Ross so much. They think that advertisement illustration from the 50s has any kind of artistic value because "it's not modern art". People worship Leyendecker or Loomis like they're gods.
>>78358215
>Working people never did, unless they got rich, and then they posed in their finery. This guy isn't that; he's the equivalent of a guy in overalls working in a garage.
The cream doublet with frills, slashed red pantaloons, and codpiece point to this being his finery. The clothes, along with his apparent age, would make him a master tailor, the upper middle class of his day.
>>78351056
Erica Henderson. Her art is awful and I don't understand how she managed to get a gig with Marvel and then have it become as popular as it is.
It depends on the tone of the comic, and the characters.
Kingdom come for example, has this huge sense of gravity and import than I've not experienced in any other comic. Ross's style is amazing for creating that. Ross's art makes everything seem important, mythological even. His art is like almost like a history book. For Kingdom Come and similar books, he is unparalleled.
However, in a more juvenile and fun toned book, you want someone else. Its not just about having a good artist, but putting them with a writer and book whose style and tone match the artist.
Imagine, for example, swapping Kingdom Come and Batgirls art styles. Neither would work.
>>78358453
>>78358453
>Erica Henderson. Her art is awful and I don't understand how she managed to get a gig with Marvel and then have it become as popular as it is.
>>78353715
>I don't see you making bank doing art for marvel and dc so shut your fucking mouth you prick
>>78358406
He's a working man and a tailor. He's not going to wear rags, and it doesn't change the fact that he couldn't have afforded this painting himself.
>>78355318
>People aren't standing around stoically when talking, ever.
Are you retarded? Not every argument is people yelling and walking around and hand waving. Sometimes it's just talking.
>>78355535
Dude, like half the american comic book industry isn't even American. It's filled with french,Canadian,Brazilian,Italian,Japanese,etc.
>>78358215
So, technical skill vs. compositional skill?
>>78358331
Public View of modern art is skill-less plebes sometimes literally shitting on canvas, otherwise, basically scribbles. As such, you'd see why people would flock to something that looks like it took some actual effort to create.
>>78353176
Someone tell Peter what to do with his hands
>>78358584
He means that the poses aren't really relaxed. Like you can pull up interviews from people who are physically fit like athletes and they don't look like that when they're just talking. But I don't think most artists tend to capture that well anyway.
>>78351525
This. He isn't the most overrated, but he is overrated.
>>78358584
A lack of body language and gesticulation is naturally perceived as uncanny. It indicates that there's something deeply wrong with with the person and/or a disconnect between what is said and what they're thinking. The only reason someone speaks without the corresponding body language is if they're trying to deceive or are mentally defective.
Only autistic people fail to recognize body language. Regardless of what is being said or the emotion behind it there is always corresponding body language.
>"Ross is bad at depicting movement"
>let me tell you why you're wrong with words and not pictures
>>78353176
Love JRJR when he isn't phoning it in. Favorite run of Iron Man, there is a blockiness to his style even when he isn't in a rush that is a good fit for IM and the baddies he fought. Didn't care for his Spidey run which wasn't a good stylistic fit for him at all.
>>78359563
Look at pretty much any page in a comic and you'll see more movement and dynamic interaction than Ross has ever depicted in his entire career combined.
>>78353282
Now you're just being plain retarded.
Of all the shitposts on /co/ any talk about art is the shitiest it gets.
/co/ understands about art, color theory and composition as much as a tapir understands pneumatic pistons.
Bunch of kids and manchilds with little triggers that makes them hate one specific art without being able to objectively tell what is the problem with it, which ends in them assuming the art is just bad and labeling as such, because it never occurs to these fucktards that their taste don't mean shit for standards.
Another day in the piss ocean.
>>78359766
Ross completely fails at depicting any sort of interaction and if you can't see that then you are literally mentally retarded.
Look at how he works, directly copying lone figures posing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BIJzDO4fxM
Provide a single example of him portraying character interaction.
Let me ask again, can any of you Ross fanboys provide a single example of Ross depicting any sort of character interaction or movement?
>>78359855
Fucking this, not even once I've seen a discussion on art here that isn't absolute shit and I've been around for like 6 years
>>78359855
>>78361334
I've seen ok art discussion in storytimes, especially when it comes to saying why something is bad. But it's nearly impossible for people here to compliment art beyond "i think it looks pretty".
>>78359913
>>78353282
Lol, your whole argument is a fucking shit show. I wish I knew you in real life so I could laugh directly in your face.
>>78353998
>passive aggressive response
Woman detected.
Stop defending shit art, anon.
>>78357141
This, every so often he puts out something great (I thought his Cap run was decent), but he's gotten a rep for speed so he leans on that too much.
>>78352811
>>78352632
"Cartoony" isn't an excuse, and it honestly looks as bad as USG
But the characters have curves so it's alright haha :^)
>>78361496
Why does the joker's cheek look exactly the same as when he isn't being punched? What's with that facial expression? Batman's body posturing is completely wrong.
Have you never seen a fight before? This looks nothing like a fight but like two completely different people posing alone.
>>78358681
> As such, you'd see why people would flock to something that looks like it took some actual effort to create.
Yes and I think it's definite proof that /co/ plebs will always be clueless as fuck about art. The general public still thinks Picasso was not a con man, and now that modern art has completely lost its edge we're veering back into actual art, and of all the fucking amazing artists of the past they chose to glorify these hardhats who had technical skill and absolutely nothing else.
>>78353176
this guy stinks
>>78359701
>this guy hasn't read Kingdom Come
>this guy hasn't seen the Galactus sequence from Marvels
>>78361710
Jesus Christ you're a pretentious asshole. If you took the kind of nitpicking bullshit you're applying to Ross and used it for any other artist you'd say the same exact shit.
>>78361918
more like
>this guy is a complete and total retard
>this guy has absolute shit taste
>>78355535
Yıldıray Çınar and Mahmud Asrar are both Turkish.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI7Sm7FEcTM
Here. Sub is available.
>>78359855
You think it's only bad on here? It's worse on a lot of other places.
>>78359701
>Look at pretty much any page in a comic
So your argument uses generic reasoning instead of actual examples?
>>78362447
Very funny.
>>78356936
> His art style is too detailed for a comic book and he tends to draw things
You and anyone with this mindset CAN BURN IN THE DEPTHS OF MOTHER FUCKING HELL YOU WORTHLESS PIECE OF HUMAN GARBAGE, DETAIL IS NOT A FLAW MOTHER FUCKERS.
>>78356816
He has only been slow on Secret Wars.
He didn't delay on Thor or Ultimates.
>>78357110
Nah, go compare Cassaday's Star Wars with Hitch's JLA, Cassaday's art looks better by comparison.
>>78353116
Really? You thought that cover was when you noticed problems? Do you not remember his Superman Grounded covers or the variant he did for the Fantastic Four issue where Johnny died?
>>78351056
Everybody you like and everybody that anyone else likes.
And everyone who has ever done any art ever.
They're all overrated and everything is shit.
You can all leave now.
>>78357178
Liefeld just learn a new word and is using it. Literally /co/
>>78352503
>I have yet to encounter anyone with anything nice to say about modern Chaykin.
Yeah, 1970s/1980s Howard Chaykin art and his current stuff may as well have been drawn by two totally different artists. He was one of the Bronze Age's hottest talents when he was coming up in the industry (I'd put him ahead of contemporaries like Frank Miller and John Byrne in terms of sheer rendering skill, on par with Frank Brunner and a young Walt Simonson, and behind guys like Alex Niño and P. Craig Russell).
I don't know if he just stopped caring at some point in the mid-1990s or if he's dealing with something like declining eyesight or maybe arthritis (which are common reasons for why older artists see a decline in the quality of their work). I keep picking up current Chaykin-drawn comics hoping to see a return to form, only to be disappointed time and again.
Sure are a lot of butthurt Ross fanboys ITT
>>78367171
>liking someone's art makes you a fanboy
>>78351837
His cap looks like a transsexual pile of mashed potatoes
>>78365562
>>78352503
Chaykin's sameface isn't any worse than his equivalents (ie artists who still draw their own comics, like Cho), and he can construct a page that flows better than anyone. His storytelling is head and shoulders above anybody you care to name.
Plus, you know, he still draws. A lot of artists are basically setting up Poser scenes and running them through filters or just Landing it now, and of the ones who do draw - a lot of them just aren't very good, even the ones who get held up as being "great" comic book artists of the modern era. There's a lot of dodgy anatomy, scale and perspective, a lot of fudged fingers. Fuck 'em all to death.
>>78367171
Natural state.
>>78359667
His Cap was good if idiosyncratic.
>>78353247
There's a promo image he did for Fear Itself where the guy in back (who was either Thor or the very temporary Thor replacement that was around then) is taller than Hulk by a foot or so, who is already about twelve feet tall. It's all kinds of fucked up. Mind you, Cho's promos for that event looked like shit as well. Whenever he's asked to draw anything other than his basic Square Jawed Tittymonster or Probable Homosexual man he gets all kinds of fucked up.
>>78358475
Best point made in the entire thread.
>>78367171
Not as many fanboys in here as there are hipsters parroting shit opinions.
>>78358215
that's hugh jackman you retard
>>78351088
Yeah, that anatomy is awful
>>78365562
In the 90's he stopped doing much art because he was working in Hollywood on screenplays and stuff. He said in a Comics Journal interview in the 00's that he had to relearn stuff IIRC.
