Every problem Legend of Korra had, had a precursor in The Last Airbender. Ongoing romantic relationship had zero chemistry (I'm looking at you, Zuko and Mai). Despite linking elements to philosophy in the lore, gaining new ability was seldom linked to character development. Aang never really embraced poorly articulated philosophy on water, earth and fire, he just unlocked the abilities when plot time had come. And let's not forget avatar state, that Aang failed to unlock through mental discipline as guru taught him and instead unlocked it by means of acupuncture rock.
Character development for the lead? What's this? Aang started the story by running away from responsibility to North Pole, get my the middle story by running away from responsibility to Katara and resolved plot by running away from responsibility to a lionturtle. Let's not forget Lionturtle that conviniently showed up in the end so Aang could avoid taking a moral stand.
If not for enjoyable filler, you'd hate Aang too. Should it be condensed into a Korra-lenght seasons, it would be terrible.
>>78314966
Aang DID unlock the avatar state through mental discipline, but just as he was about to unleash a can of whoop-ass on everyone with it he took a lightning bolt in the chakra point. The acupuncture rock hit him right in the damaged chakra and let him use it again.
>>78315024
>Aang DID unlock the avatar state through mental discipline
And spent the most of the next story nurturing his love for Katara despite being warned against it.
I really don't buy it because he was all like "Sorry Katara, I let you go" and then jumps out of cover to save her and gets shot for this.
>>78314966
TLA had Sokka, Iroh, Toph etc etc and other strong supporting characters. LoK had.. Varrick and maybe Zaheer. Aang sucked, but his supportijg cast really made it up. Korra on the otherhand.
Oh look, another Korra thread. How original.
>>78315061
Korra had lots of appealing side character too. You forgot to count Tenzin, Jinora, Lin, Mr. Sato, Tarrlok, some of the airbender recruits, Prince Wu, you gotta like some of them.
>>78315077
No, it's Aang hate thread. Can't you read?
>>78315088
Most of those characters had nice potential, but never really lived up to it. Remember when we thought Bumi was going to be a bad ass non bender? Then he just ends up being about daddy issues and becomes an air bender.
>>78315098
Everyone is just going to talk about Korra though. It's how all these threads go, especially when you put a Korra image to open it.
>>78314966
We fully agree on Lion Turtle(s) needing to never have existed in this universe.
Korra is just too unlikeable. Even if ATLA is reduced to its 12-14 (non-filler) ep/book (heck Book Earth did one fabulous arc in 6-8), I'd enjoy the story and characters more.
>>78314966
WELL THAT"S
quite reasonable argument actually
AtLA is my favorite cartoon ever but I totally see your points,
It's real strength was really enjoyable characters and exiting world and adventures in it. Korra failed with it's main cast and didn't have time for much adventures and exploration so that's why it didn't work as much
>>78314966
>Ongoing romantic relationship had zero chemistry (I'm looking at you, Zuko and Mai)
that's one example, and there was a flashback showing that Mai liked him.
>Despite linking elements to philosophy in the lore, gaining new ability was seldom linked to character development
your point is? they should be philosophers to make new powers?
>Aang never really embraced poorly articulated philosophy on water, earth and fire, he just unlocked the abilities when plot time had come
he is the avatar, he have thousands of years of experience inside of him to help. Did you even watch the show?
>failed to unlock through mental discipline
he did on the last episode of S02
>and instead unlocked it by means of acupuncture rock.
as i said: it was already unlocked. The ONLY reason he couldn't use it after S02 is because he got hit by Azula on that chakra/marma.
>>78315057
>And spent the most of the next story nurturing his love for Katara despite being warned against it.
after it is unlocked, i don't think it 'locks again' just because he loves her, and letting go was never about "not feeling love". It's about how he deals with losing the things he love.
More important question -
Why so many people say that Earth is the best book, when it's so obvious that Fire is the best one? Followed only byChange
Also, can we all agree that Southern Raiders was the best episode not counting the finale, right?
>>78315246
>Followed only by Change
>Southern Raiders was the best episode
opinion discarded.
>>78315246
the ONLY reason people like change is because of the fighting scenes and that's it. Villain's motivations makes no sense, Korra is still a cunt and her "friends" don't even have a reason to follow her other than 'plot demands it'. Rebuilding the air nation is a poor reason to go all the way to the earth nation considering there was much more important stuff going on.
When is Smoke and Shadows 2 getting a storytime?
>>78315246
because Earth had the best balance of focus with stories most enjoy.
...And Toph Beifong...
..."fabulous arc"...
>>78315342
>Villain's motivations makes no sense
They make perfect sense. He's an entry-level anarchist, there's literally nothing there to not understand.
You could say he's a bad villain and you might be right, but you can't say he doesn't make sense.
>>78315561
>He's an entry-level anarchist, there's literally nothing there to not understand
He says "chaos is good" without explaining. He kills a leader not expecting someone else to take his place. It is pure retardation. It takes 5 seconds for anyone with a brain to realize it won't work.
he is a bad villain because his motivations makes no sense, as in "doesn't have a logical explanation as to how it could work".
>>78314966
This is pasta.
>>78315646
People believe all sort of crazy shit when they succumb to wishful thinking.
>>78315660
>I'm not capable to type more then a single sentence in a post, so everyone else would also be unable to
If this was so, where would pasta come from to begin with?
>>78315673
which doesn't make a good villain, or even avillain that makes sense. Still people talk about zaheer like he is the best thing in LoK.
>>78314966
Why I really like ATLA compared to LOK
>1) Villains: I don't think I need to explain Zuko, and his arc stretched across three whole seasons, or Azula, who has a great downfall arc in the last few episodes, as well as being a genuine threat. Ozai isn't all that interesting, but the build-up and selling of him as a threat was phenomenal. LOK villains are either boring (S2) criminally underutilised (S4) or simply not given enough time to feel like a big deal.
>2) The sides: Every one of Aang's accomplices went on an arc to some degree, all of which were brought to completion through Aang himself. All were better off as people because of him. None of Korra's companions went through a character building experience, unless you consider Bolin learning lava-bending. Su and Mako are still assholes, and Asami was as bland as she started.
>3) The one-offs: The episodes that were self-contained were extremely useful in building up characters and relationships. This was something LOK didn't do, and suffered for it. It's just non-stop plot, and we never have a chance to see the characters not obsessed with current events, and doesn't allow them to go on some unique adventures, which would be great with the new technology.
There are plenty of smaller reasons, but those are the big ones.
>>78315698
Villain is a character driven by his vices. Like wishful thinking. Makes him as good as any.
His logic is consistent with itself, valid. It's not true, that's why he isn't a hero.
If you want a villain whose views are correct, why would he be a villain?
>>78314966
>Ongoing romantic relationship had zero chemistry (I'm looking at you, Zuko and Mai).
It's a coulple between an emo that hates himself and has problens expressing his true feelings and a mostly emotioless goth. What you really expect? I thought it was fine for what it was.
But I know that its pasta so whatever.
>>78315646
Ladies and gentlemen its THAT autistic fuck of the avatar threads.
He does things that real anarchits did. Go ask on /hist/ what was their deal you dumb fuck.
>>78315691
It's just bait. Everybody knows.
Innabilitty to detect bait is what make /co/ só easy to troll.
>>78315803
I posted it because I wanted to discuss flaws of ATLA compared to LOK.
Not everything negative about a sacred cow is some kind of attempt to troll everyone.
>>78315849
People prefer to think that stupid opinions are bait, than actually true. You can't complain about them.
>>78315775
>He does things that real anarchits did
this doesn't mean "good villain". It means "he does retarded things". Again, just because some people did it for real does not make it a good plot point of villain.
>>78315904
Did you ever studied or asked a real anarchist their motivations?
Really, you piece of shit, why you don't go ask /hist/ or /pol/ about it? They always have threads about anarchism.
Stop acting like an autist.
>>78315701
LoK did do, Book Air doesn't really rev up the plot until after the love triangle one off (which even past then we have to get to ep 9 or 10 to rush to the finish line at break neck speed).
There was merely a tease of more to come in ep 4.
Book 2 was pretty dang meandering as well until/after the Wan episodes.
Book Change: somewhat same deal except team Korra had a purpose or goal before the villainous Scooby Gang caught up to them to change their direction.
Book 4: i'm blanking out right now on how fast character arcs wrapped up before we got to Kuvira's "bigger & better" plan.
>>78315933
so your best explanation is "there is probably an explanation"? that's not a good argument at all.
also, anarchism is not about killing leaders. Some of them did this, true, but this is not some tenet for them. There is a 'peaceful anarchism'.
>no futa ova set in the spirit world
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agusDATduWQ
>>78315997
No, my argument os: go ask people that study it, that are disponible two clicks away, instead of sperging over things that you don't know shit about.
>>78315380
>still giving a shit about Smoke and Garbage
>>78316049
>my argument os: go ask people that study it
that's not an argument at all. You call people autists without even disproving the arguments they made. If you think there is some kind of proof you can use against my points, why don't you look for it? because as far as interpretation goes, i'm right. Chaos does not automatically leads to an organized society and expecting this is completely stupid.
Can we stop doing this?
>>78317134
It's pointless to argue with you, because any explanation that he could give you will be ignored because you refuse to acknowledge that Zaheers motivations were realistic and understandable.
So if you want to know more about anarchism, go talk to some anarchists.
>>78317259
>you refuse to acknowledge that Zaheers motivations were realistic and understandable
i never said it wasn't realistic. Retarded people exist in real life. My argument is completely different.
>>78317277
You have very odd ideas of what makes a good villain.
>>78314966
I did not think it was possible for bait to be this shit, you sir have proved me wrong
>>78317297
>Disagreeing with me is bait
You, sir, are the cancer.
>>78317337
Have trash bait, makes it bait
But I'll respond to your points anyway.
>romantic relationship had zero chemistry
Didn't like them either, whatever.
>Aang never really embraced poorly articulated philosophy on water, earth and fire
Bullshit. Aang had to learn to be stubborn and headon with EArth, which you would realize if you watched book 2 and his fights against Azula where he keeps his stance and even rushes the chick. Water is close to air anyway since it has to do with redirecting energy and going with the flow. Fire has multiple sources for using it instead of just pure anger, as Iroh and the Sun Warriors showed, and Jeong Jeong didn't teach Aang to use anger.
> that Aang failed to unlock through mental discipline as guru taught him and instead unlocked it by means of acupuncture rock.
Wrong, you missed end of Book 2 where he went avatar State until Azula shot him down. You also missed book 3 first episode where Katara says aang has a lot of energy pent up near where the scar where Azula hit him at and even Katara healing the scar gave the guy flashbacks to Avatar state and what happened. The energy was just locked up until a physical thing, unlocked it, in this case the rock. Not unlike acupuncture or a different application of what Ty Lee does.
>and resolved plot by running away from responsibility to a lionturtle
Wrong. Even after getting energybending, to pull it off, Aang's spirit has to be completely unbendable, if he isn't he dies. If you think Aang in the beginning is just as unbendable as Aang at the end, you didn't watch the show.
>>78315701
What I really liked most about ATLA was how human the characters were. Each were dealing with struggles that none of them really knew how to face and dealt with in their own way. You could be able to describe these characters without needing to justify it with their occupation or plot. Also the foil with Zuko and Azula was great and displays what happens when one character is built on a fallacy and the other on life experience.
>>78317468
>Bullshit. Aang had to learn to be stubborn and headon with EArth, which you would realize if you watched book 2 and his fights against Azula where he keeps his stance and even rushes the chick. Water is close to air anyway since it has to do with redirecting energy and going with the flow. Fire has multiple sources for using it instead of just pure anger, as Iroh and the Sun Warriors showed, and Jeong Jeong didn't teach Aang to use anger.
He never changed his attitude. Hardly even his combat style, but his personality never improved.
>Wrong, you missed end of Book 2 where he went avatar State until Azula shot him down. You also missed book 3 first episode where Katara says aang has a lot of energy pent up near where the scar where Azula hit him at and even Katara healing the scar gave the guy flashbacks to Avatar state and what happened. The energy was just locked up until a physical thing, unlocked it, in this case the rock. Not unlike acupuncture or a different application of what Ty Lee does.
He refused to let Katara go, he spent next season pining after her, and he married her in the end. At no point did he actually abandon his attachments, or any other things Guru told about to embrace his Avatar duty. In fact, as the story ended he was effectively still an Air Nomad, not a man of a world.
>Wrong. Even after getting energybending, to pull it off, Aang's spirit has to be completely unbendable, if he isn't he dies. If you think Aang in the beginning is just as unbendable as Aang at the end, you didn't watch the show.
He was the same person he begin with. On all three counts, writers arbitrarily increased his power level, letting him stagnate in actual character department.
>>78317565
>He never changed his attitude. Hardly even his combat style, but his personality never improved.
Yup, you're baiting
>At no point did he actually abandon his attachments
He did at end of season 2, did you even watch the episode? And even other actually fully enlightened people who had given up all earthly attachments (which Aang didn't even do) weren't some cold heartless dudes who had no friends or gave a shit about things. Pathik had had friends, dude in the swamp had friends and cared about shit, doesn't mean you can't care for someone or love them, just not put them above fucking everything.
>He was the same person he begin with. On all three counts, writers arbitrarily increased his power level, letting him stagnate in actual character department.
>saying something makes it true
Fuck off with your bait m8
>>78314966
No, see, AtLA was good despite it's flaws due to pitch perfect dialogue, which was lacking COMPLETELY in Korra
>>78317565
>At no point did he actually abandon his attachments
Jesus Christ, you're a stupid one aren't you?
The Buddhist philosophy isn't about "abandoning" attachments, but being able to let them go. You can still own things, you can still love people, but you don't allow them to tether you. It's the difference between holding a rope in your hand and having a rope tangled around your legs.
Guru Pathik wasn't trying to teach him how to get rid of the rope, just how to untie the knots.
>>78317806
But the Star Wars prequels told me that the only way to git gud is to become a soulless, autistic robot man.
>>78315246
>Southern Raiders
>The best episode
>NOT WANTING TO GO ON MY INSANE REVENGE QUEST WITH ME MEANS YOU NEVER REALLY LOVED OUR MOTHER
>>78317637
So, from a twerp who can never take a stand when it matters to a twerp who can never take a stand when it matters, what DID change?
>>78317896
That was actually a really well written scene though, even if Katara was wrong.
I disagree that the Southern Raiders is the best episode, strongly, but it handled its characters believably.
>>78317978
The fact that that line is never challenged, brought up, or mentioned again when like 70% of Sokka's character is his devotion to his family makes me disagree with this.
>>78317923
Mostly that he took a stand when i mattered.
>>78318126
When? He only took a stand against Ozai when he found deus ex machina to offer him an easy way out.
>>78318177
He was ready to do it without the lion turtles help aswell actually. And he still stood up to Ozai regardless. Also remember that he didn't leave voluntarily that night, he was hypnotised by the turtle and taken away.
He also stood up to Toph to a lesser extent during the episode where he learned earthbending.
>>78317290
a motivation that makes sense?
>>78317896
Agreed.
And I don't think she apologized to Sokka for that.
Also stealing Appa was her next step when Aang said no.
Fuck Katara.
>>78318311
It does make sense though. You can even simplify it to "Zaheer wants to free people from a corrupt system of government", if that doesn't make sense to you i would like to know why.
>>78317565
>He never changed his attitude
it was never about improving personality, but opening chakras. He doesn't have to change to realize some things.
>He refused to let Katara go
that's exactly what he did. Not only that, it was never about not having a romance. It's about not being too attached to it. Being the avatar is not about not having a romantic life (many avatars were married. Roku even explains that).
>>78318311
It makes sense to him and it all that matters to him.
As much sense as "Maybe if I steal enough money I'd be happy" or "Maybe if I kill this girl's boyfriend, she'll love me" or "If we burn enough witches Jesus senpai will notice me" or "If I support fascist coup we could finally have a decent country" or any other villain motivation.
>>78318371
So you admit that Aang didn't develop and just got his power level increased?
>>78318444
Developing the ability to let go and actually letting go are different things.
>>78318444
>still pushing his bait
Rip
>>78314966
So which part of the original series is to blame for Korra being the Jobber Queen?
>>78317806
How did Aang change from before and after hearing this? If you can't name any changes then it's the same as this lesson having no effect.
