So why did everyone hate this movie so much? I know expectations were really high and while it wasn't great, it was pretty good? Did it really not merit a sequel/franchise?
I'd say routh was a much more likeable superman than the one we have now. you even see him saving people!
Super kid was ill conceived.
>>78275269
It was boring like shit and the only character that was interesting was Luthor
I liked it and it actually made me start looking into comics, but it's really not that good.
>>78275369
Ugh yeah. I don't know what the fuck singer was thinking. he loves superman and this was his dream project, then he goes "you know what makes every movie better? an annoying kid ! that also makes superman a deadbeat dad!"
>>78275269
The Good:
The mise en scene was lovely, comfy, nostalgic.
Spacey was a decent Lex.
The Bad:
Everything else. The plot was awful. Kryptonite island real estate scheme? Super babby was certainly ill conceived and executed. Just so odd. Lois was not a kick ass reporter but a waifish damsel in distress. No action save for the plane scene. Unforgivable. Routh may have been ok but had little to work with.
>>78275369
Ha.
It was really odd to make it a continuation of the Donner/Reeve Superman. The shuttle/plane sequence was cool though.
>Film can't decide if it's a continuation or separate from old series
>super kid
>Superman leaves earth to double check if Krypton is really gone
>No one makes the Clark kent connection from previous gripe
>Lex's plot is ANOTHER retail scheme that makes less sense that no one will buy
>Kryptonite level of lethality changes depending on plot necessity, ie lifting the island
>Lex is reduced to banging old woman to get back on his feet
But really it's just boring. Nothing is happening in this film. About the only decent thing was the plane scene which was pretty well done
>>78275398
>>78275951
Being boring is worse than being bad for a movie. You can mock a bad movie, but every time you mock it you also advertise it. You just forget about a boring movie.
>>78275269
I liked it because of Spacey's version of Luthor.
But Cavill's better
It was boring. And boring is the worst thing a movie can be.
>>78275269
Was pre-Avengers era.
>>78275951
>retail scheme
He wanted to buy all the Forever 21s
>>78275603
There was the helicopter scene as another action scene, but it's so random it feels like part of a sizzle reel that they shoehorned into the finished film.
>>78275951
>>78277206
Yeah. As polarizing as MoS was, I have friends who watched it because it wasn't boring. Some loved it, others thought it was so bad it was good. It left an impact either way.
I do find it hilarious though, that between Supes Returns and MoS, people have no idea how to find a middle ground.
>SR: Make it more light-hearted and fun like the Donner movie, make it nostalgic!
Reaction ends up being that it's boring, people want more fight scenes.
>MOS released: It's action-y, big budget, disaster porn-y, huge emphasis on trying NOT to be boring.
Reaction to MoS: This sucks, Superman hardly saves anyone, where's the classic Superman I know and love?
>>78275269
Cause Lois was a stupid cunt that would rather let her son struggle with his powers than let Superman help him.
>>78275269
The action sequences were Superman lifting heavier things before getting to the final boss of lifting a continent.
Deadbeat dad.
Routh having to act like Reeve acting like Clark.
Luthor's plan.
Luthor pleasuring an old woman for money.
Zero threat or tension until a literal island of kryptonite is unveiled.
Superman going to a hospital just seemed weird.
>>78275269
It's not a terrible movie, but it sure is a baffling one.
Get hyped that the same writers are doing Apocalypse
>>78275269
>you even see him saving people!
>>78277347
>Superman hardly saves anyone
This is the most mind numbingly retarded complaint in human history, he saves SEVEN BILLION LIVES and every other living thing on the face of the earth TWICE, and he saved people in the final battle by keeping it between him and Zod and keeping the Generals focus on him and only him. him trying to save people one by one would have failed dew to how fast they move or it would have come off like Zod was just floating around letting Superman save people.
>>78277382
>Deadbeat dad.
This is god damn fucking bullshit, Your not a dead beat dad IF YOU DON'T FUCKING KNOW YOU HAVE A CHILD!!!
>>> SUPERMAN RETURNS (2006)
> PROS
-- Spacey is a great Lex.
-- Superman has cool boots.
-- More serious even somber at times compared to the reeves films.
-- Incredible plane rescue.
-- I honestly liked Bosworth as Lois, not half as much as Amy Adams but still immeasurably more than Kidder.
-- Liked her interaction with Cyclops.
-- Good music & opening credits.
> CONS
-- Whole film too nostalgic and imitative of the reeves films.
-- Spacey still wayed down a bit much by the Gene hackman version of the character.
-- Whole plot with Superman having a child, and i don't even care about or agree with the whole deadbeat dad bullshit.
-- The lack of clarity on wether or not Lois remembers that Clark is Superman or not.
-- HATED Parker Posey in this & thats saying something as i liked her in Scream 3.
-- Other than the S, the Boots & The darker toned red, the Superman outfit still sucked.
>>78278129
good summation
>>78278095
even still it kinda plays that way, no he didnt know, but just the idea of Superman not being there for his kid is skewed
>>78278095
It was a retarded addition to a pretty dumb story. I could call him a bastard son if it makes you feel any better.
>>78275269
It was boring! For me that is the worse sin one can commit with a movie especially a cape movie. I mean Superman gets his ass kicked by fucking Kumar! How do you make that boring?
MOS was a masterpiece compared to this piece of shit but i expect people are unironically claiming it to be better
>>78280088
Neether is apporopriate, dead beat dad applies to fathers who know about a child but are not allowed to see them and can not support them for lack of money period or they choose not to support them, Bastards are ones they know about and ignore.
Superman not knowing the child exist in anyway whatsoever means nether of these applies to them.
>>78280535
Bastard: n. Illegitimate child
>>78275269
I-I liked it.
Imagine waiting twenty years after Batman and Robin and the next Batman movie is just a sequel to the second Burton movie with an actor doing a Michael Keaton impression.
>>78275269
It was boring, not enough action.
I don't even mind boyscout superman, but fuck man, no punches thrown makes for a boring fucking movie. The high point of the movie was the jet rescue scene.
Also illegitimate kid and stalker supes is fucking lame.
>>78278071
For some reason people need to see him actively saving individual people in order to acknowledge it in their heads. Never mind him saving the bus full of kids or the oil rig workers.
I'm guessing we'll get the same shit complaints even though it looks like there's a montage of him saving people in BvS.
>>78284180
Let me ask you a serious qusetion. Do you feel it when a person dies every 13 seconds? In the time it took to type this post, a few dozen more human lives were snuffed out. How do you cope with that knowledge?
You do it because you don't know those people. That whole 13 seconds thing is a statistic. Yeah he saves SEVEN BILLION PEOPLE but those are likewise, a statistic. It's too big to grasp, too huge to characterize, and too many people to empathize with on any meaningful level.
It's amazing that you guys don't get this when the movie literally has a scene where the characters say "The world is too big." and "Make it small"
Yeah, he saves people, but we're never given a reason to give a shit about the people he saves. Quality matters more than quantity.
>>78277206
Nah man. If people would rather be doing something else than it's not good.
>>78278095
did something happen anon
>>78284378
yeah but what about the oil rig and bus full of people?
It's like you cannot read it at all, or comprehend what is happening in front of you.
MoS wasn't a great movie but the "he didn't save any1!!!!" is like the shittiest complaint, when it's objectively wrong.
Eh I liked it. The kid thing was weak but other than that I enjoyed it.
>>78275951
>>No one makes the Clark kent connection from previous gripe
I assumed everyone thought we went home to Smallville, with his ma who could corroborate.
>>78284378
I agree with you up to a point, but I don't think it really applies in this case. Considering that the seven billion people includes as a subset every single supporting character in the film. And considering that most if not all of these supporting characters are seen struggling with the crisis one way or another before the world is finally saved, personally I'd say the connection there was pretty overt in the film.
I mean, you could make an argument that the supporting characters themselves are unsympathetic or not so well written all you want. but that's a different complaint and kettle of fish.
Let me go through why the plane scene stands out in an otherwise bland film: there was buildup, the musical score complimented it, and most importantly, there was tension. Having Superman thinking quick on his feet in an increasingly bad situation is far better than that machine gun heist scene. You were invested because you were seeing how close to the fire civilians could get before Clark would pull them out. Whereas the heist was just boring considering Clark had no issue dealing with it.
>>78284378
People throw around the word "autism" a lot without realizing how genuinely common it is on this board.
People have a REALLY hard time understanding any storytelling concept based on human fucking emotion rather than numbers and data, it's why there are so many threads bitching whenever a show has "relationship drama". They just can't comprehend that a character's love life could be an important element to telling that character's story in something that in their minds is "supposed to be" an action show all about fighting. They reject that shit as if it's as alien to the core concept as giving screentime to a human in a Transformers property, not because it genuinely is, but because it's alien to them and their myopic Vulcan-like interests.
>>78275269
The best part of this movie was the Spider-man 3 trailer before it
>>78285027
And capped!
>>78285294
oh, I thought of one:
Anon replies in agreement to retard who used an overly reductive argument that didn't really apply to the situation.png
>>78277206
A boring movie is a bad movie
>>78285761
No, it's just mediocre. At least boring movies tend to have some decent structure to them and you can follow what happens. Of course being boring is still unsuccessful and it's a negative trait, but it's not the same as being bad.
>>78285807
This is subjective as fuck and I hope you know that. People can have fun with terrible movies
>>78284378
>Yeah, he saves people, but we're never given a reason to give a shit about the people he saves.
Because it wasn't about them, it was about Clark, his choices and actions we care about, he chose to give up to Zod to save earth from the consequences, he chose to go face the world engine despite being weaker around it (and almost died in the process of stopping it), he chose to destroy the scout ship instead of risking the safety of the plan to destroy the black zero, he chose to kill Zod rather than let him threaten any more lives.
>>78285807
Why not? I've always considered the adjective "bad", when applied to movies, or most other such media, books, comics, etc, as meaning failing in its purpose, as in failing to be a source of amusement or diversion for the audience, in a vaguely defined sense.(I'm being deliberately vague here with "source of amusement", as there are different ways of thinking about it, and different purposes across genre and media, eg. you'd watch a serious drama and get something else out of it than you would with some slapstick comedy which would be different in turn from a more experiemental piece; you watch horror movies to be scared etc.; plus not to mention there's whole differences of philosophical opinion about the purpose of art and what people get from it which is all a different discussion I don't want to get into. But the point is, failing in its purpose, failing to do that thing, whatever it was meant to).
The point is, if the thing is specifically meant to be non-boring, especially for the genre/medium, say, a superhero action movie blockbuster, and doesn't really have much else going for it that might be a source of amusement or diversion, this might be enough to call it a failure, to call it bad. I mean, I can "follow what happens" in Batman & Robin. It's not about having a recognizable structure and form, it's about whether the thing as a whole resonates with you as an audience member. That's how I've always interpreted the phrase "bad movie" anyway.
>>78284684
>yeah but what about the oil rig and bus full of people?
Who are they? Why do we care about them?
They're red shirts at best; there to die to show a situation is serious but they're lucky if they even get to say anything beforehand.
Hell, this is classically why characters like Lois and Jimmy even exist; because you need to give someone a name and backstory and give the audience a reason to care when they die. Otherwise they're just kind of props.
>>78284911
>Considering that the seven billion people includes as a subset every single supporting character in the film.
Characters that barely got a paragraph's worth of exposition between them and even less characterization though. Audience sympathy is earned rather than intrinsic (kind of. It scales depending on various factors from sex to age to race).
>>78286084
First off it sure as hell WAS about them because Snyder isn't a complete idiot. He knows, just like everyone that's ever done a kaiju or disaster movie, that in order for said destruction to have any meaning whatsoever, there needs to be a human element in it. The point of contention here is that the human element is too abstract to be effective.
Second, they didn't bother to give Clark much dialogue about how he feels about any given thing. He's reactionary yes, but we're not given actual reactions. If it's about Clark REACTING to the destruction going on around him then they could easily have rendered that since the character can literally hear and see it going on around him. We don't get any feedback from him with regards to that.
Third, and this is a greater problem with the movie, character actions follow beats rather than characterization. Clark doesn't really get to be proactive; he just ricochets from plot point to plot point because otherwise there's no narrative whatsoever.
>>78275269
It was just kind of generic and "safe".
As much as I dislike it, Man of Steel does have a specific tone that it achieves.
>>78286524
>Characters that barely got a paragraph's worth of exposition between them and even less characterization though.
Based on my memory I think you're exaggerating slightly. They got enough exposure for me to care. It's not the best-written film by a long-shot, and I wont stress the point because it's based on my now 2-year-old memory of the film, but they got enough exposure for me to care.
>>78286637
Let's play a game.
How many supporting Metropolis characters can you name?
>>78277382
>Routh having to act like Reeve acting like Clark.
Being hamstrung by the script/direction is the worst an actor can get. He didn't get to leave his own mark on the character. But I could say the same for Cavill too, so here's hoping BvS is better.
At least Routh still gets exposure through the Arrowverse.
>>78286769
ok let's try
Perry White, Lois Lane, woman at the Planet, that army general guy played by the guy from the matrix sequels, that army woman, Ma Kent.
OK I didn't strictly speaking name them, but I forget character names in films I saw 2 months ago, let alone 2 years. Also they aren't all stricly Metropolis characters, but I didn't specify that in any my posts so idgaf.
