This is happening whether you like it or not
>>78222116
I'm pretty sure this directly contradicts Gaiman's Lucifer who said he doesn't make or influence anyone to do evil, they just blame it on him to avoid dealing with the vice in their souls
>>78222116
>I have never made one of them do anything
>ever
Dear lord fuck this writer
And this is confusing, because according to the Books of Magic, Raguel is the angel who became the Spectre
Here he's just some angel
>>78222133
Even in the show pilot they don't do evil because of him, they just feel a need to confess their sins.
This was, as expected, shit.
To do a sequel would always be shit. Just pointless, pointless shit.
>>78222240
>I device
This is triggering me
Well, arts nice at least. Should've gotten with Carey for this though.
ow does this work anyway is the Lucifer portrayed in demon knights no longer canon?
>>78222354
This Lucifer is different, from the previous multiverse.
Actually just being from the Sphere of the gods means that there are different versions of him all over the multiverse.
Also the Lucifer Earth was never a main DC earth, it was the Hellblazer earth, which has some DC stuff but is out of the local multiverse
>>78222323
Seriously? He does like 47 keikakus based entirely on deception in the series.
There are plenty of things to hate about this series, the fact that Lucifer claims he is deceptive is not one of them.
>>78222399
he manipulates but never outright lies he's too prideful for that.
>>78222456
So exactly what he says in that speech you're complaining about?
Jesus fucking christ this is bad.
>Gabriel has gone from calm voice of reason to 2edgy4u badboy
>The whole Elaine Belloc thing is apparently forgotten
>Lucifer does in fact make people do evil
>>78222391
as far as i knew Hellblazer was in the same universe but kept out of capeshit and was more self contained?
>>78222471
>complains that he admit he lies
>say's he doesn't lie manipulates but never lies
>he has an aura that makes people go evil even though this is supposed to be a sequel to the previous run
WUT R U COMPLANING ABUT
>>78222485
Nah Hellblazer John ages in real time, there's no way that's the same universe
>>78222101
wait, what?
what is happening?
I'm so scared and confused right now.
is this a reboot?
a sequel?
an elseworld?
>>78222116
>sharks swam too close to the shore
Okay, this has GOT to be a parody, right?
>>78222193
So this is an actual continuation of Lucifer?
>>78222556
They directly reference events in the original run, so I guess it's a sequel.
>>78222599
Yup.
>>78222555
It was supposed to be the same universe, Hellblazer John was in Sandman and even met Martian Manhunter and Mr. Miracle.
The fact that he aged in real time was just kind of swept under the rug.
>>78222515
Deception is not outright lying though. It was deceitful of Lucifer to go into the battle against Asmodeus with his heart in a box instead of inside his body, but he didn't lie about it, just like you said. He is 100% a deceiver.
As I said there are tons of things to complain about in this book, and you brought some of them up in a post that wasn't talking about them for whatever reason, but complaining that Lucifer calls himself a deceiver because you don't understand the English language is retarded. Don't expect people to jump on a false hate train with you just because the book is shit, that's how people start to write the people who don't like it as "well, you just don't like it because it's different". There is so much actual criticism to be had, you don't need to focus on this.
>>78222621
John doesn't appear in a single comic published under the DC label until Brightest Day. No way he's supposed to be in the DCU
>>78222708
After Hellblazer starts I mean
>>78222155
Peacock feathers? But peacocks can't fly.
>>78222708
No, but Swamp Thing and Death of the Endless both appear in Hellblazer, and both of them are explicitly in the DCU.
>>78222638
de·ceive
dəˈsēv/
verb
verb: deceive; 3rd person present: deceives; past tense: deceived; past participle: deceived; gerund or present participle: deceiving
(of a person) cause (someone) to believe something that is not true, typically in order to gain some personal advantage.
>>78222101
Absolutely fucking not.
I'm completely done with the big two now, fuck them.
>>78222555
He slept with Zatanna though
>>78222759
Right, and you can cause someone to believe something that isn't true without lying. He shows up to the fight with Asmodeus where the conditions are that the winner must remove and eat their opponent's heart, which makes Asmodeus believe that his heart is in his body, even though that is not true.
>>78222754
Why can't they be in both?
The Endless explicity can appear all over the multiverse and exist above the overvoid.
It's a universe constructed using the best elements of the DC mystical canon that removes most of the Superheroic elements. Why can't that exist?
>>78222797
No it doesn't, did Lucifer explicitly say for this challenge I'm going to put your heart back in your body?
I can accept this only as long as I view it as an Elseworld. If they are trying to sell it as a sequel to Mike Carey's run they should have had the writer actually read it.
>>78222116
Oh hey didn't he steal this kinda "Ominous shit happens in one page" from Alan Moore's Swamp Thing and Moorison's Doom Patrol?
And again,
>I never made them do anything
>>78222822
The Endless maybe, but the Swamp Thing that Hellblazer John knew was part of the DCU and met several superheroes, so it was the same universe.
And like another anon said, Hellblazer John also knew Zatanna in Books of Magic/Everyday Magic.
>>78222101
>This is happening whether you like it or not
But how could I not like Lucifer? Mike Carey wrote one of the greates-
>Vertigo '16,
>Black Garbet Fabella
Oh... Oh no.
I already am traumatized enough from the leaked script bits of the Lucifer TV show, damn it, please tell me this isn't as bad as some bit my soul is screaming its going to be before i even read it...
>>78222892
This is a thing every Vertigo Horror/Occult writer has used since Moore started doing it in Swamp Thing and I'm willing to bet Moore got it from someone else.
There are legitimate things to complain about on the page, why don't you address them.
I really liked this. But, I've never read the original Lucifer so that's probably why.
>>78222899
The endless was canon in the old universe didn't Lex Luthor have a talk with death that one time and Sandman in JSA became the endless after Sandman's death?
>>78222867
Exactly, he didn't lie, but he did deceive. You realize they're different words right? They're not homonyms?
>>78222977
The Endless were canon, but they could appear in any universe they wanted.
>>78222101
Thanks jews.
>>78222977
Endless can go all throughout the Multiverse and exist outside of it in the Garden of Destiny.
>>78222141
>Dear lord fuck this writer
>Dear lord
heh
>>78222873
It is explicitly a sequel, though
>>78222873
It is literally explicitly a sequel. It's hardwritten into the book. The premise is that they think Lucifer killed God because he's the last person God was seen with.
>>78222980
Now we are going full fucking circle
>>78222759
Maybe you should read a fucking dictionary once in a while. Also
he didn't lie but he tricked
>>78222240
which is literally a different fucking word as on here.
This is really shitty writing. It's like the writer just read a wikipedia page for backstory. Are they making him like this so that he is more similar to the show? I would have accepted it if they just rebooted the whole thing and ignored the original series, but fuck that. This is shit and this writer is shit.
>>78222956
Because I like that kind of page style and felt like pointing out its a common thing. Thats what I wanted to talk about.
You talk about what you want and point out what you want.
>>78222112
>this fucking quote
the epitome of ignorant cancer
Why would they make a sequel to fucking Lucifer of all things? Are they really hoping that stupid show will become popular so they can cash in on it? Jesus fucking christ.
>>78222133
I'm pretty sure it was Michael who last spoke to God when He left Primum Mobile.
>>78222112
>the fucking license plate
Wow, this might actually be worse than the tv show. At least the Lucifer from the show is charismatic.
>>78222277
>Claims to love the series so much they dropped all their projects to do this
>doesn't even know the most basic premise of the series, that Lucifer has no evil influence and the idea that he was blamed for the evils of the world is one of the main reasons he quit hell
But what about Elaine Belloc? You know, the actual main character in the Lucifer book? The girl who takes over after Yahweh leaves? She saves the universe, then sits on the throne of God? Anyone remember her?
>>78223110
Fuck. I didn't even notice that. Why?
>>78223127
They mention her in a single sentence in a single page. Not by name though, that'd be too much.
>>78223111
I haven't watched it mainly because i forgot it came on but are they going to be sticking with procedural crime shit and a love interest
>>78223146
Yeah, looks like that. It's actually an enjoyable show, but it has fuck all to do with the comics. I wish they haven't tried to market it that way, I'd have no problem with it otherwise.
>>78222391
That stupid Morrison fuck, how I hate this bullshit.
Well lads, she's running a twitter Q&A today starting at 3:30, so you can rip into her then.
>>78223142
But all the angels(including Gabriel, who personally saw Elaine take the throne) clearly uses "The Presence" to refer to Yahweh despite Elaine taking over that position. The continuity makes no sense.
>>78223238
>written by a tumblrina
Of course. So that is why the whole thing feels like a cheap Supernatural ripoff.
>>78223359
But it doesn't feel like that at all anon.
The book is shit but it is shit in its own unique way.
>>78223373
I did get some Supernatural vibes when they introduced Metatron, I don't remember him being in the Lucifer series
>>78223033
Deceive is closer to trick than lie. A lie specifically has to be uttered, forsworn, as Lucifer says, deceit and trickery are more nebulous concepts.
I've never read Lucifer before, can someone explain why this is 'shit'?
>>78222123
He has the scar. He has the fucking scar THIS IS MEANT TO BE A SEQUEL FUCK THIS
>>78223413
read Lucifer and find out why
>>78223441
But surely, it just being different isn't the only reason it's shit?
>>78223395
If I remember correctly, Metatron was a chamber where God's voice echoed endlessly.
>>78222141
That line is from the OG Sandman story where Lucifer decides to stop ruling hell. It's a major part of his character in the Carey story. If you're gonna shitpost, do it right.
>>78223455
Not different in style, rejecting canon, which is incredibly important to Lucifer, it being a biblical story, after all.
>>78222150
>Gabriel as a follow angel
This blasphemy. Displeases.
>>78223455
it changed the original series core concepts and dropped plot lines even though it's a direct sequel
>>78223455
But that's exactly why. It's a direct sequel that throws all previous characterization, events and rules of the setting completely under the bus.
>>78223483
He's been a fallen angel for something like 20 years now anon, read the Hellblazer story where John tricks him into fucking a succubus
>>78223413
Firstly it doesn't even need to exist, the end of the series is amazing, and basically puts Lucifer in the perfect place for the character, to have him come back to this world is idiotic.
Secondly it shits all over the established shit. Lucifer emits an evil aura when he explicitly says he has never made anyone do anything evil, which isn't even the worst part, they're talking about a God that hasn't been God since the end of the series and completely ignoring the new God Elaine.
>>78223399
Now your just trying to argue semantics this story own words used deceive and trick as two different concepts.
>>78223467
He's referring to that very line, and how the linked page contradicts it. Get your shit together, man.
>>78223467
How am I shitposting?
>>78223550
You started the semantical argument cunt! You think all deception is lies, which is patently false. Go fuck yourself, I'm done with this argument and you're dead wrong.
>>78223593
>dead wrong definition i put down disproved your baseless claim.
Trust me it was done before you even started.
>>78223623
Fuck you I showed how you could make someone believe something false is true without using outright lies using the fucking series and you were to retarded to understand
>>78223685
and i asked did Lucifer say that he would give him back his heat for the challenge? No so he was TRICKED OR MANIPULATED by his own stupidity
>>78223530
I mean blaspheming the virtue of the REAL Gabriel the angel.
>>78223810
Oh. Then Christfags, please leave.
>>78223826
[triggered]
>>78223762
No because if Lucifer explicitly said it, that would be LYING you dense, dense fuck.
The deception was showing up as if it were business as usual and participating in the fight.
>>78223826
lmao
>>78223826
Also Muhammadfags and Mosesfags since Gabriel is Abrahamic
>>78223832
>This is blasphemy and should not be in my comics
>lol are you triggered by my religious meltdown
>>78223833
HOW IS THAT DECEPTION! LUCIFER REQUESTED A CHALLENGE SHOWED UP AND WON,
>>78223833
>>78223911
HE MADE THE RULES AND ACTED WITHIN THE PERIMETERS
>>78222116
Yeah, remember when in Sandman Lucifer said how he never made anyone commit the crimes they usally balme on Satan? The writer to this sure don't
>>78223810
Well Garth Ennis isn't a pillar of salt yet, so God doesn't mind. Why should you?
Hell must be pretty dull without Baytor.
>>78224024
key word is yet i wouldn't be surprised if he was doing a q&a in front a crowd and all of a sudden he started turning into salt
>>78222354
Demon Knights Lucifer was just middle-ages Lucifer. He used to be more of an asshole back than, see Ennis' The Demon for more info.
>>78222224
I gave up on Hellblazer partway through the Jenkins run where the First became the Devil again. What happened to John's Succubus friend anyway? Was she ever important again?
>>78224093
>Was she ever important again?
John had sex with her for something I can't remember and she got pissed at him. I think it had to do with his doppleganger.
>>78222101
>2015
W-what
>>78224093
I remember she was in Hell when Nergal was using John's body.
>>78222485
It was. There was no 'Vertigo-earth' dispite what Johns claimed in Flashpoint. Even Hellblazer was set in the main DC universe with Zatanna, The Phantom Stranger and Swamp Thing. Hell, even Death of Endless even appeared in fucking Action Comics after all. However Nu52 changed it all. I assume some of the higher beings, like the Endless or the Host made it out unchanged, while Gabriel, who's a semi-mortal , got revamped into this emo fuckboi (but still remembering his faithfull encounter with pre-nu52 John and his chainsaw.)
>>78222708
>>78222720
WRONG.
He was present at Hal Jordan's funeral among other insignificant appearances. Also, his battle with the King of Vampires was referenced in Hitman.
>>78224073
It's been twenty years. In that time he wrote Preacher, a book that was basically "Christianity can suck my cock: The comic".
Again, if he were that pissed he would've done something by now.
Ever think that God has a sense of humor? Or do you think he's as easily offended as a 15 year old girl on tumblr?
>>78222155
>writers who did not do the research
>>78224166
>my head canon overrides literal in pages canon
ok
>>78224057
Baytor is the life of every party
>>78222155
>>78222162
Lucifer newfag here, but is Lucifer the only angel with the stereotypical wings angels are often depicted as having? These other two have the same style, but Lucifer is the only one with the white fluffy feathers.
>>78223911
>>78223931
Because he knew Asmodeus would believe he had his heart in his body and behaved as it it was, doing a great acting job. A simple stab would had previously fucked him severely, he looked and acted like he was fine hours after having his goddamn heart cut out. He intentionally left loopholes in the rules to exploit.
it was a fucking keikaku how was it not deception ?
>>78224394
No, in the previous series several angels like Michael, Remiel, Duma etc had those feathers.
I think this is just an artistic liberty they're taking.
>>78224406
>I think this is just an artistic liberty they're taking.
I've noticed they're taking liberties everywhere.
>>78224394
This is actually another canon error/coloring gaff, Lucifer is one of the few angels who doesn't have normal wings, he has light gold wings the color of first light or Black Batwings, all footsoldier angels have normal wings. The higher ups have different ones, except Michaelwho had normal ones
>>78224321
Okay Cereal-fanboy, go and be butthurt elsewhere.
>>78224484
You're the analpained one dude
>Stupid Johns wrecking my headcanon
>Anyone who disagrees with me is a fanboy!!! X(
Christ
>>78222752
>implying
>>78223238
reminder this is at 3:30 for those with grievances
>>78222133
Slight nod to the end of the previous comic.
>>78223238
>>78225894
>join Q&A
>start blaming author for things that are the editor's fault
>author is unable to answer your questions because they'll get fired if they say anything negative about the editorial department
>none of your questions get answered, nobody receives any satisfaction, everybody goes home unhappy
Sounds "fun".
>>78222265
Mazikeen! Aww fuck yeah!
>>78222240
>That tiny 666
>>78226056
>blame editorial because 'muh creatives are sacred cows'
>basically to the point in a situation like this where editorial would have had to ghostwrite the book
>at fucking Vertigo
you are retarded
>>78226151
Wow, it's really there. Well spotted.
>>78226622
>at fucking Vertigo
Vertigo is DC.
DC Editorial decides which interpretation of every character to use. DC Editorial decides which previous events are still canon and which are retconned. That's how shit works in an editorially-controlled company.
What are you even complaining for? Remember, you CHOSE to read this editor-controlled comic book. If you only wanted to read comics where creators control their creations, then you should have chosen to read a creator-owned comic instead of this.
>>78226960
Yes because Vertigo is known for having DC's hawkish editorial policies, and they totally share an editorial, and share all their higherups actually.
Post a sliver of proof that this story is written by editors.
Why can't you accept the writer is trash? She your waifu?
Also Vertigo publishes creator owned works too moron
>>78224190
He also meet Green Arrow when Ollie went to England in Grell GA
>>78222155
>Peacock feathers
what the fuck
It's the devil who has those, according the Yazidis, who are like the only people who mention angels having peacock feathers
Can these guys get anything right
>>78227907
Not to mention Morpheus's double-page cameo in Kevin Smith's Green Arrow.
>>78227851
>Yes because Vertigo is known for having DC's hawkish editorial policies, and they totally share an editorial, and share all their higherups actually.
Vertigo is known for editors overriding creators. Have you already forgotten the CMYK drama?
>Post a sliver of proof that this story is written by editors.
"DC Editorial decides which interpretation of every character to use. DC Editorial decides which previous events are still canon and which are retconned." is the normal setup at DC. You should be posting evidence that this comic is different somehow.
>Also Vertigo publishes creator owned works too moron
This isn't one of them. You should start reading creator-owned comics, so that you can stop complaining whenever a corporate-owned comic surprises you by being corporate-owned.
Well Lucifer should've know not to mess with Johnny. After all, he's the best that ever been.
>>78228027
Nah, they don't care. Mainly because est. 90% of the readers either don't know or don't give a flying fuck.
This wouldn't be as bad if it had nothing to do with the original series.
>>78222155
I thought Raquel was turned into chocolate and died?
>>78223520
>>78223520
s oit's bad not because it's atually bad but because it's not the lucifer you're used to?
>>78228830
The TV show is more bearable simply because it didn't pretend to be related to what came before.
It was just shitting on the name of the series. This is actively shitting on the series and rubbing it in.
>>78223550
and the story own words states that lucifer doesn't lie but he deceives.
>>78229478
This just in, writers can contradict themselves many times in a single comic. Just because what they say is the law and canon within the universe doesn't mean it can actually hold up to even the mildest scrutiny outside of it.
And even if it can't it doesn't change the fact that what the writer wrote is cannon even if it directly contradicts itself because they are fucking retarded.
>>78229550
either you're a genuine idiot or are just trolling
>>78223550
> this story own words used deceive and trick as two different concepts
>>78229461
>and the story uses deceive and lie as 2 different concepts
>then the story is wrong
>>78222265
>Lucifer Morningstar
Not his name anymore, you fucking niggers, he gave it up along with his power (the power that Mazikeen how holds)
Fucking morons, fuck.Actually I thought this was some kind of reboot, it's an actual sequel? Why, the series needed none
Fuck you, DC.
>>78229969
Most things that get sequels don't need them, anon.
Will this and the tv show at least lead to DC collecting Lucifer or reprinting it?
>>78229969
He explicitly gives up the power at the end, but really most people called him that because it was his name.
Sure you can say Ywhw gave him that name because of his power, but its still his name.
>>78223395
>>78223459
He lead the charge against the Great Evil Beast in Swamping thing, but all the angels were just balls of light there. So this might be the first time we see his form.
Also why do the angels care I mean Elaine is still God. Sure she doesn't really care about them (or these could be the assholes who didn't join whatever new order they made)
>>78223548
It's pretty shitty to have him come back. But the whole evil Aura thing that might not be Lucifer it could just be the world reacting to a psychopomp reintroducing itself into reality.
Also remember his psychopomp nature is independent of his title.
Also I'll forgive this shit the tiniest bit if I'm right in thinking that Mazikeen made herself the devil because she got jealous of what the Japanese goddess tried to do.
>>78222112
>>78222116
It's amazing how literalist "edgy, arty" comic book art has gotten.
>>78222186
>gods from other pantheons
>implying christianity is pantheistic
>>78222186
>implying Archangels are the highest in the angelic choir and aren't just messengers and soldiers
Why are they letting puny archangels like Gabriel in but not the Seraphim like Sandalphon?
>>78230997
Because prior to losing his wings Gabriel was able to fight (and seemed to be winning) against Lucifer in single combat.
>>78230997
Vertigo Sandalphon is a bitch ass nigga who fell from grace and I'm pretty sure Lucy already killed him
>>78222101
The fuck? They're reviving Lucifer? But HOW? He cannot return to creation unless he sacrifices his pride. THAT PARADOX LITERALLY WILL NOT RESOLVE ITSELF WITHOUT DESTROYING THEIR GRAND THESIS.
I MAD
Is there a recommended reading list for the original of this? I know nothing about it and have never read sandman, should I?
>>78230649
Lucifer has already been recollected and reprinted in deluxe editions.
>>78232826
You will need to read Sandman, at least up through Season of Mists (book 4), which is the arc in which Lucifer leaves Hell. You might as well read the rest of Sandman too, while you're at it.
>>78233081
I really like it when people pretend to care about something and then it turns out they don't. If that anon really cared about Lucifer he'd already know it's been collected in Deluxe. I wonder how many people in this thread actually read the series and how many just read up on wikipedia or are just repeating what they herd other anons say in other threads.
>>78232826
read swamp thing, Constantine, sandman, then Lucifer
>>78222101
Oh, I hope this comic has a percocious kid that helps Lucifer solve crimes while he and her mother fall in love!
Lucifer is together with Mazikeen in the show though.
