Why do people hate Ultimate Cap for???
Ok I have heard some claim he is racist, but the Ultimates 2 Annual has him teaming up with Sam and there are flashbacks showing Steve being sympathetic to blacks in the army and at the end when Zola's black victims break free and overrun him, Steve refers to them as "your betters".
People complain about the french bashing, at worst that is uninformed jingoism not racism, and even that is inconsistent, he strongly praised Russian forces he fought alongside in Ultimate Secret.
I agree he is more a product of his time than a ideal of his time like real Steve is...
But I just recently saw people call him disgusting and a bigot, I'm sorry I see zero evidence to support this.
He got Pete killed
>>78175711
He's not racist, he's just an asshole. That's why people don't like Ultimate Cap, because when it comes down to it, the dude was an aggressive jerk most of the time as opposed to 616 Cap's more compassionate and peaceful character.
Also >>78175727
>>78175727
>He got Pete killed
????
>>78175711
He is even a biggest goverment puppet than normal steve. Americans have a hard time understanding how much of a parody he is. If youbelieve american soldiers in irak or the rest of the middle east are "haroes" then you won't see anything wrong with him.
>>78175711
Those smelly surrender-monkeys just couldn't handle the banter.
>>78175739
>the dude was an aggressive jerk most of the time as opposed to 616 Cap's more compassionate and peaceful character.
Kicking Bruce in the face and beating Hank to a pulp makes him an okay bloke
>>78175750
>He is even a biggest goverment puppet than normal steve
You know how I can tell you don't know shit?
Because he quit in Ultimates 2 because he stopped believing in the US government.
>>78175750
>If youbelieve american soldiers in irak or the rest of the middle east are "haroes" then you won't see anything wrong with him.
But KEY thing your missing is the fact that In Ultimates 2 we see that the middle east does in fact have Nukes, so their cause was factually justified in the Ultimates Universe.
>>78175749
>Nick Fury tells Pete that he's going to get trained by the Ultimates
>Cap's training was just him saying that he wasn't a real hero and that he should just quit until he comes of age and get trained properly rather than wasting everyone's time now
>literally that night Cap uses his Ultimates to fight Fury's Avengers
>Pete shows up and dives infront of a bullet that the punisher shot indented for Steve's kneecap
>Cap says 'good job, kid" and runs off to continue fighting the Avengers while Pete bleeds out
>Meanwhile, the Sinister Six break-out thanks to all this Avengers vs. Ultimates shit, and immediately go after Pete's family with none of the ultimates or avengers caring because they were too busy fighting each other to hunt down super-villains
>Pete, bleeding out from taking a bullet for Cap, then has to fight the Sinister Six by himself and dies as a result
Peter's death is almost entirely Cap's fault. If it were 616 Cap, he would have dropped the fighting to get Peter medical attention ASAP, but Ultimate Cap only knows or cares about fighting. The mission is his priority.
>>78175827
I blame more Bendis being hell bent on killing Pete than Cap
>>78175827
>>Cap says 'good job, kid" and runs off to continue fighting the Avengers while Pete bleeds out
No he was carrying Pete to safety when the bridge collapsed beneath them...
>>78175777
>But KEY thing your missing is the fact that In Ultimates 2 we see that the middle east does in fact have Nukes.
And how is that a bad thing?
A country can defense itself?
Wow, so terrible.
India and Pakistan Both have nukes, and that's the reason they are not in open war.
>>78175763
After literally creating Captain Sandnigger and invading a country.
>>78175857
>After literally creating Captain Sandnigger and invading a country
Yeah, he realized how much he fucked up because he was following a government's principles, not the spirit of the nation.
You're making my point for me.
You know that you can be a racists without hating all other races, right?
>He's racist
And?
>>78175857
>And how is that a bad thing?
Because many of them are ruled by genocidal warlords.
Real world Saddam had a body count of 2 millio., He used nerve gas on innocent Turkish villagers in the late 80s, how high would it be if he had nukes or was willing to create and use dirty bombs?
And besides that most of said countries even if their leadership is just and moral, coups could happen at any time and there are countless extremist groups living and operating in said countries, that is no mother fucking place to store nuclear fucking weapons.
>>78175877
>You know that you can be a racists without hating all other races, right?
But he wasn't being racist towards anyone...
>>78175840
Except that was 100% Mark Millar. He's the one that wrote Ultimates vs. Avengers and he's the one that recommended killing off Peter and editorial liked Millar's idea of turning Peter's death into an event.
Bendis didn't want to kill Peter. Editorial and Millar did. Bendis then decided to use it as an opportunity to make Miles.
I know your love of memes means you have to blame everything on Bendis because that's easier than knowing what the fuck you're talking about, but at least try and get educated.
>>78175938
>>Bendis didn't want to kill Peter
>>78175857
Muslim extremist do not give a shit about defending themselves they bomb their own towns and strap bombs on children at the drop of a fucking hat!
>>78175899
>wife should obey husband
>bad
Time for out of context pages?
>>78175899
Muslims aren't a race, they're religious followers. Thus hating them indiscriminately isn't racist although it is bigoted.
>>78175727
This
>>78176002
No, it stands forANTS
>>78176002
Haha, I came here to post that. In his defense though, France hassurrendered a lot historically
>>78175912
>Real world Saddam had a body count of 2 millio.,
>this meme again
Yes, and there's nothing wrong with thart, he was fighting "rebels" the same rebels that now created: ISIS.
Bush and Obama also killed millions. Hussein was a crazy ruthless dictator defending his country. You are talking about coups, when most coups were instigated buy the CIA or effect of supporting dictators like in Iran, gaddafi got killed, and syria is under attack by american backed rebels that got replaced by isis, the result? the slow death of europe thanks to immigrants that are a product of Western zionist intervention. The middle east deserves to kill itself, just like europe did. Commies and American good goys already fucked up there. If they want nukes to protect their country they can have it.
For every terrorist target of drone attacks 10 civillians die. If you bomb a country believe me, if they hating you is not that they hate your freedom, they hate that you killed their pet/gorlfriend goat and they uncle ahmed
He uses kids as human shield.
>>78176190
No he did not, he 100% accidentally landed in the room with the kids and if he had not infact brought War Machine's attention to the kids being there then he might have started blasting the room without noticing them.
>>78176169
>he was fighting "rebels" the same rebels that now created: ISIS.
Yes and there cause was just then...
>Hussein was a crazy ruthless dictator defending his country
He does not have the right to keep a country if he mass murders his citizens.
He's basically America after the 9/11 attacks. Just neocon arrogance and aggression.
>>78176145
What? No, they haven't.
>>78176190
Nothing unusual. Israel does it all the time.
>>78176263
And you country has the right to kill his citizens?
Each country deserves to fall on it's own you interventionist neo-liberal faggot.
>>78176145
It woulnt matter, they surrendered in the WWII and thats all that matters to people because its the only thing know/care about.
>>78177149
>wars backed out of or surrendered from
1914-1918: WW1
1859-61: War of Italian Independence
1854-56: Crimean War
1820-23: Wars Against Spanish Republicans
1809: War of Austrian Independence
1804-07: War Against the Third Coalition
1800-1802: War Against the Second Coalition
1792-1797: War Against the First Coalition
1778-1783: War of American Independence
1672-1678: The Dutch War
1667-1668: The War of Devolution
1635-1659: War of the Pyrenees
1618-1648: The 30 Years' War
1584-1590: War of the Three Henries (ends when Catholic majority forces Henry of Navarre to accept Catholicism).
1328-1453: The Hundred Years' War (Edward III began the war to seek his claim on the French crown).
to 1320: War Against Flanders
1223-1225: War against the Angevins
1204-1215: Wars of Philip Augustus
1142-1144: War Against Champagne
to 1100: War Against Bourges
to 1082: War Against Vexin
to 1077: War of Brittany
to 1047: War Against Norman Rebels
1003-1016: War for the Duchy of Burgundy
888-894: Wars Agaisnt the Normans
795-806: Wars Against Barcelona, Navarre, and Asturias
772-804: Wars Against the Saxons, Bavarians, and Avars
742-774: Wars Against Pavia, Lombardy, Saracens, and Aquataine
(53 campaigns from 772-814)
>>78177149
atleast in WWII they did
>>78177215
>And you country has the right to kill his citizens?
Yes if said citizens are terrorist who murder and bomb themselves and other innocents around the world.
Not being a soldier or official part of any government does not make them non combatants.
>>78178286
>Americans actually believe this
Man, 9/11 really did the world a favor
>>78175899
Anyone have a Christian version? Loox like most of these are shared in between.
>>78175848
You don't say.
>>78178286
I'm disgusted to live in the same country as you
![2pyx72b[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/uErXPRr.jpg "2pyx72b[1].jpg")
I liked Ultimate Cap, he was a much more modern and "grounded" version of the character. Many consider him a dick/jerk/asshole because he wasn't perfect like 616 Cap.
So what?
The entire point of the ultimate universe was to reimagine characters for the year 2000, and this Cap was perfect for the world we lived in at the time. He wasn't a boy scout or a perfect paragon of goodness, he was just a man that loved his country and wanted to fight Nazis in the 1940s. Imagine if your WW2 veteran grandfather was in the body of a superhuman 20something year old, that's the attitude he has. He's not supposed to be the ideal of his time, he's supposed to be a product of it. Ult Cap is supposed to be a flawed individual that just wants to do the right thing for his country, no a perfect man that fights for liberty and freedom.
Ultimate Cap is just a reflection of ourselves, not a projection of who we want to be.
>>78178286
Most of the victims are civillians, what terrorism? What is terrorism?
With the fall of the ottoman empire (british intervention) and the creation of israel (american intervention). The future of /mena/ was doomed, all the ethnic cleaning was results of British colonialism and the rise of communism. America fucked up every attempt of secularism (since it was usually marxist) and was so afraid of the commies you created saddam and osama. You had been armig israel for 50 years and you complein when savage ignorant monkeys fight back? They could be killing each other as they want to do, its the American intervention what imported their terrorism to Europe in the last 40 years. Also fuck the serbs and the armenians.
>>78179812
Disgusted by what???
That I want to stop terrorist who hide among innocents and car bomb said innocents, their own fucking people?
That I want justice for the Paris massacre?
That I believe THIS SHIT...
http://m.timesofindia.com/world/rest-of-world/2000-killed-in-Nigeria-but-world-failed-to-react/articleshow/45844273.cms
Must be stopped by whoever has the power and will to do so?
>>78180062
> Most of the victims are civillians, what terrorism? What is terrorism?
ALL of ISIS and the taliban are civilians and non official soldiers.
Call bystanders killed in battle non combatants not civilians, if your waging wear against non governmental entities their nature as a civilian is irrelevant.
>>78180062
> what terrorism? What is terrorism?
Specifically murdering non combatants as your singular target.
Killing them as a side effect of taking out actual targets is bad but it's not the same thing.
>>78180067
Assuming you're American, why do you think it's our job to police the world? Do you realize that everyone hates us because we've been sticking our dicks in their asses for the past few decades? You know that all of these extremist groups are as big and powerful as they are because WE went to THEIR countries and
>Tried to change their way of life
>Used extremely shady and often violent business practices to procure oil and other resources
>Set up military bases near on their soil, or close enough
>Supported rebel groups (read: terrorists) to destabilize the area for our own economic and political gain
>All the while promoting global propaganda of us being the best while committing atrocities world wide
This applies to more than just the Middle East, South America is the way it is now because America has the military restraint of a crackhead in a dope house. Really, America needs to go back to being an isolationist country
>>78175899
Your average deep south Christan believes the first outer 3 rings.
Ultimate cap was based for what he did for black panther
He's a legitimately shit person.
>>78175749
He means peter parker.
>>78180293
Bruce murdered half of new york.
There's nothing wrong with those panels.
616 Cap is an ideal of what America should be
Ult Cap is what America actually is
>>78180293
>Hulk kills over 800 people
>Don't think he deserves a swift kick in the teeth
At least he wasn't black, otherwise Cap would've just shot him and gotten an award
>>78180332
>Ult Cap is a patriot
ftfy
>>78180306
Nothing says Captain America to me quite like stomping the face of a surrendered, helpless weakling out of spite
>>78180497
Again.
Bruce took the serum for an ego trip and murdered 800+ people.
Kicking him in the face means next to nothing.
>>78180228
>why do you think it's our job to police the world?
BECAUSE MILLIONS ARE DYING WHILE NO ONE ELSE FUCKING DOES IT.
>Tried to change their way of life
When they burn their children's faces off with Acid for kissing before marriage, shit needs to mother fucking change.
>Supported rebel groups (read: terrorists) to destabilize the area for our own economic and political gain
No we did it to stop communism, and because of it, their countries may be hell thanks to outlaws but at least they aren't being lined up and murdered by the police and people meant to protect them not enslave them.
>>78175711
Ultimate Caps my fav.
Ultimate Cap might be an asshole but he doesn't hate mutants and support torture the way 616 Cap does
>>78180497
8 HUNDRED FUCKING PEOPLE SOME OF WHOM HE FUCKING CANNIBALIZED!
>>78180121
I guess the america revolutionary army were not soldiers either. You dont have targets in the middle east, they have no capacity to harm you. There's no reason for america to have military bases in the middle east, people that fuck goats dont have maps, they didnt knew where america was before you bombed and killed their brothers, fathers and mothers. If you invade a country and people fight back they are freedom fighters, the american backed rebels in syria? That was isis. Of nato bombs kill 6000 people in a village, dont act susprised when mohammed ebin memhe kills 100 fags In berlin. Just couse someone wants to kill his wife it doesnt meak you can go in, kill him, kill his children and steal his tv.
>>78180544
Not willing to risk the firebird to killing 8 billion human/mutant/other lives on our planet if the mutants are wrong and hope can't control it IS NOT FUCKING HATEFUL TOWARDS THEM FUCKER!
>>78180544
Mutants are almost the source of every major catastrophe in the MU.
>>78180611
>back the fuck up, mutie scum. I heard there's some big fire bird heading to Earth and that sounds like something the REAL HEROES should handle
Nah, son.
>>78180519
You killed way more people in irak than the 20 years they had with saddam, we ate talking about a whole 0 more, your intervention started before that, you destroyed secularism and humanism to protect israel, if a people want to be communist is their right to fall on their own, is not your job to kill their president and impose a pro-western puppet, after killing the commies the only people left were the extremists religion nutjobs that dont see a difference between capitalism and communism, what you did to iran and chile has no excuse.
>>78180611
He's an insanely belligerent asshole in that event and after it Hope literally had to steal the powers of a villain to escape him trying to control her life and forcing her to not be a mutant hero
Cap is supposed to be a pollyanna. A goody two shoes. Someone pure as the driven snow and who doesn't think nasty thoughts about others. A literal paragon of virtue.
Ultimate Cap was USAgent, devoid of all of the tragedy and pathos that makes USAgent tolerable. Ultimate Cap was a jingoistic bully boy douchebag who you want to punch.
>>78180604
1.) They were sanctioned by a official governmental force in the 13 colonies.
2.)
> they have no capacity to harm you.
911 says otherwise, the countless Islamic bombings all over the world say fucking otherwise.
>If you invade a country and people fight back they are freedom fighters
Not if people within said country attacked us first or said country financially supports the people who attacked us.
And we are not nazis or communist when we invade someone we are not enslaving or oppressing the regular normal innocent citizens we are fighting the terrorist that are killing them just as they are killing us. They have no fucking reason to free themselves from us when we are not lording over or warring against them.
>>78180696
No just unbiased ones who won't risk billions of lives just for their individual clans sake.
>>78180720
No he killed 2 million people most of which where is own citizens.
We didn't kill even a 3rd of that.
>>78180004
This. I liked Ult-Cap. At least prior to Ultimates 3. I didn't like anyone after Ultimates 3
>>78180519
Holy shit, what state do you live in? This sounds like some typical deep south Trump supporter rhetoric
>>78180519
>No we did it to stop communism, and because of it, their countries may be hell thanks to outlaws but at least they aren't being lined up and murdered by the police and people meant to protect them not enslave them.
Up until this point I sympathised with your views, but thought you were wrong. This is when you fall into complete OMGAMERICAISTHEGREATESTANDEVERYWHEREELSEISSHIT!!!!!!1111!!! territory
>>78179055
Considering it's literally what caused a lot of Americans to take this mentality, you're retarded.
>>78180004
I agree that Ult Cap is a great character in this way, but I think we're supposed to dislike him in the same token
>>78175711
woah man check out that bicep.
>>78181212
I think that throughout Ultimates 2 we're supposed to think he's wrong, but not dislike him, and see his decision to leave SHIELD and the US government as character growth
>>78181115
Trump is not big in interventionism. Trump will leave the middle east alone
>>78180915
God you are a retard, do you seriously believe america got attacked first? Whats wrong with your education?
>they have no reason to want to fight back an invader
Seriously you are the reason why Jews control your life, you are beyond saving. The manifest destiny is over. The nazis didnt attack people half a world away, you did.
>>78181154
No I will totally admit I don't know if the USA is the best country ever but I do know that most communist countries have committed crimes against humanity against their own citizens.
>>78181306
> do you seriously believe america got attacked first
WHAT IS SEPTEMBER FUCKING 911TH???
> they have no reason to want to fight back an invader
Because said invader wants to help the innocent in your country more than your genocidal overlord...
>>78181393
>WHAT IS SEPTEMBER FUCKING 911TH???
A direct response to Americas actions
>>78181566
No because we had not yet harmed any civilians in the middle east in mass at that point, desert storm was just us defending a ally.
And this is irrelevant, they attacked our civilian population directly and primarly, we have not that makes them the villains no matter what.
>>78181614
>he actually believes this
Let me guess, you think the Attack on Pearl Harbor was unprovoked as well
>>78181614
>He actually believes this
See >>78180228
America has been meddling in everyone's affairs since the end of World War 2 and our rise as a superpower. Actually do some research and read some books, you're not gonna learn anything from watching the news
>>78181614
>No because we had not yet harmed any civilians in the middle east in mass at that point
You mean apart from toppling every single democratically elected government and being responsible for Saddam being in the power in the first place? And training Osama bin Laden?
>>78175727
>>78176116
>>78175827
No he didn’t, it was Peter's decision to take the fucking bullet and Cap carries him afterwards and calls him a hero but War Machine collapses the bridge.
>>78179609
You don't get the whole picture on Ultimate Spider-Man, in Ultimates Peter wakes up and runs off thinking he is abandoned while the Ultimates fight the Avengers under the collapsed bridge, afterwards when they get ouy Spidey was already gone and Tony's dumbass brother starts causing an international world threatening incident that the Ultimates have to respond to.
As a matter in fact Cap is the only one who wanted to go back and look for Peter but Fury put priority on their mission, and in Peter's funeral he is the only Ultimate that put face and took responsibility for his death and actually agonized about it aftetwards, Fury just cried to Mary Jane.
But who cares, lol Pete is immortal and came back.
>>78181393
911 was decades after the second wave of american interventionism. Next thing you will say is that israel is your best ally.
And doesnt justify attacking Gaddafi nor irak. But you kmow what, I doubt you can find latvia or iran on a map.
>>78181154
Bro, have you heard about how the Soviets treated the nations they invaded?
>>78181663
No it was a reaction to cutting off Japan's supply line... however Japan had murdered 18 million Chinese by that point, they had to be slowed down by someone.
>>78181614
>using the work villian
Wow. M8 real life is not call of duty
>>78181738
> And training Osama bin Laden?
We can't predict the fucking future and communism had to be stopped.
>>78181762
>But you kmow what, I doubt you can find latvia or iran on a map.
Yes, but I can spell Iraq.
>>78181843
We ought to have helped rebuild Post-War Afghanistan though, it was really shitty to just give them guns and let them twist in the wind after they fought off the Russians.
>>78181827
When people choose to mass murder non combatants as there full intent they are factually villains even if they were provoked.
>>78175711
People judge him from a few panels and haven't actually read him in the comics, surprise surprise.
Also
>Not muh Cap
>>78181253
This, he had character growth when he faced that Muslim Cap and saw that it was Imperialism and Cap acting on the interests of the US government what created Muslim Cap and in a way it was a parallel to how Steve became Cap and it was a wake up call for him.
But frankly after vol. 2 nothing good came for the character, between Loeb, Aaron, Bendis, Humphries and even Millar not givimg a shit he became a pastiche and pale imitation of what he was, also a right wing Cap meme.
Also what I like about him is that he's not as stubborn as 616 Cap and it's easier for him to see that he's wrong in something and admit his failures.
>>78175739
He was agressive in the field, his scenes with Bucky, Sam, and Gail and with the Ultimates during his down time painted another picture.
He also took a drink being thrown at him by Jane and Jan keking him with a straight face and non violent demeanor, hell he reacted really well at Jan shitting on him like that.
>>78176169
>Yes, and there's nothing wrong with thart, he was fighting "rebels" the same rebels that now created: ISIS.
The Kurds? They're the ones who are now FIGHTING ISIS numbskull. Saddam Hussein was a Sunni who ruled the country, why would the Sunnis who make up ISIS now be fighting against him then?
>>78175912
Didn't Regan fund, arm, and train guys like Saddam Hussein's people to fight Russians? Also it doesn't really matter if they have nukes, Russians had nukes to and Stalin was just as genocidal as Saddam and never used them.
>>78175711
> He's like a fascist Punisher.
> American Red Skull without the meglomania
> A Wifebeating-HankPym, 'cept everyone's his bitch.
> Self-Righteous
And reading the mitigating circumstances (in this thread) of the Ultimates universe made me realise:
The writers have gone out of their way to justify character, by &%^$* with the universe. 'Cos -except for zombie-verse- the real product of the publication is the characters, not the universe.
>>78180332
This.
/thread
>>78181306
Trump said the solution to US troubles in the Middle East is to target the families and children of Muslims. He's not leaving anything alone.
>>78185084
He also said is time for europe to defend itself and to let everyone solve their own problems
>>78185528
Europe defend itself? America is the one that's dragging Europe into that bullshit in the first place.
>>78185590
He means against our Muslim immigrant "problem".
>>78185813
As in the problem directly caused by the US involvement in Syria?
>>78185846
Ehhh. I've being told we've had a "problem" with Muslims for years now. Apparently having brown people living near you is catastrophic.
>>78185846
Yeah but he has a solution for Syria. Just buy up some land in Syria and put the refugees there and give them whatever makes food and water.
>all this US circlejerk
I'm not a US citizen (Australian), but from what I understand, American schools teach a very biased view of history, similar to how Japanese kids have no idea that their country committed extreme crimes against humanity; the government tells schools what not to teach. the United States of America, while generally a nicer place to live than most countries in the world, is not perfect.
Since WW2 the USA has involved itself in the affairs of other countries, often to the dissatisfaction of foreign citizens (of course this does not mean every military action was bad in the eyes of the non-US public, but many were).
The Middle East is one such situation. To the public, the American government was stopping communism (which they actually did try to do), but they used the opportunity of having a military presence in the ME to destabilise the local governments in order to get good oil and political deals for the future. They set up military bases, helped train rebels who would later become terrorists, tried to change the way the people there lived their lives, then wondered where the fuck they went wrong when those same rebels they trained and armed came back to bite them in the ass.
I get it now, the Ameritard is trolling
>>78180264
Funny how rare it is to hear about Christians killing adulterers or stoning Christians that leave the faith. It's like most nations that are predominately Christian don't actually use religion to control the government, whodathunk? The only time Christianity was ever this brutal was centuries ago.
>>78187778
Yeah, they're too busy bombing abortion clinics to deal with Adulterers.
>>78187778
Humanism and secularism are pretty good right m8? It's a shame Americans destroyed EVERY SECULAR guverment in the middle east.
>>78186004
It is, that's why is a really good idea to let them either kill themselves or fix their own problems, instead of bombing them and then importing them to western countries.
![terrorist-offenders[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/iPP3cik.jpg "terrorist-offenders[1].jpg")
>>78187826
Yeah, the relatively rare abortion clinic bombing where people aren't even harmed most of the time is totally comparable to all the violence done in the name of Islam.
>>78175711
Ultimate Cap was meant to be a slightly more human Cap, more rough around the edges. While 616 Cap is a paragon of human morality, Ultimate Cap is a flawed human who's stuck in a time he doesn't understand, and is still first and foremost a soldier. He's crude, violent and quick to anger, and his opinions are somewhat antiquated, but he's still a good man.
Of course, like everything else in Ultimate U he got handled by writers that thought they were supposed to make him "Captain America but edgy" so he ranged from racist who just doesn't understand incest to a guy who uses a preschool class a bullet shield to other, more retarded stuff.
tl;dr shit writing happened.
