I have seen people claim that cape comics (mainly from DC and Marvel) do fight scenes really poorly and I wonder do you agree with this?
Post some pages from your favourite fights.
Anything from Invincible.
Sinestro Corp war finale when Superboy Prime and Sodom Yat go at it was awesome.
>brett booth
>>78152279
I just picked a random picture from google since i Dont have any cape comics on my hdd
>>78152273
Yeah, that fight was amazing.
>>78152294
indiean pls go and stay go
Japanese comics
- roughly 40 pages a month
- can waste half of it in fighting because no need to rush the storyline since it their comic
Marvel/DC comics
- 20 pages a month
- need to finish this story arc for the TPB
- Editorial needs you to wrap this story for the tie-in to the EVENT THAT WILL CHANGE MARVEL/DC FOREVER!!!!!!!
Basically they have no need to make good fight when they are not even their characters.
>>78152349
indean please
>>78152131
It's a combination of bad artists + medium limitations. Really shitty ones like Ivan Reis and Jim Lee and Brett Booth never learned how to draw a fight, and so end up just drawing a bunch of people posing in midair with some motion lines to indicate that it's a fight. Reis' pathetic work on Throne of Atlantis, Aquaman, and Trinity War is the best indication of this.
Good artists, like Ottley, Kuder, Moore, etc can actually manage a decent fight scene despite limited space.
>>78152131
It depends on what you want in a fight. Cape comics are almost always limited by the fact that there are no real stakes - no one is going to die or even get seriously hurt.
Stan Lee and Jack Kirby realized as early as the '60s that it was more fun to watch heroes fight each other over a misunderstanding, which is basically played for comedy rather than excitement.
>>78152273
>the green lantern's unleash
How did that get through editing?
>>78153632
Proofing. It got through proofing. Do you really think these massive companies don't pay someone specifically to do proofreading?
>>78153662
Clearly they didn't pay enough. This was in their big big big event, too.
>>78152131
Immortal Iron Fist. Aja is fucking fantastic with drawing martial arts action, and it comes across well in his Hawkeye work too.
One thing I've noticed that pisses me off is when artists draw punches and kicks that have no weight behind them. Or fights that don't flow properly and are just still-frames taken out of context that don't connect to any sort of continuous choreography.
>>78152131
It's all so ham-fisted. Super-power PUNCH, guy or girl goes flying, flies back angrily and the same thing happens to the other person, energy blast, see PUNCH!
Non-supers have better fight scenes. mainly since a lot have hand to hand training, so the artist has to have a grasp of sequential layouts for combos and exchanges of kicks and punches so it's like cape fights = line-dancing and non-cape fights = tricking competitions. Sorry, best analogy I could come up with. Capefights are just keep hitting the other guy really hard, whereas non-capes have to use actual skill. I would love for someone to create a cape with a glass jaw so they'd have to think, defend, and dodge their opponents instead of just exchanging haymakers.
>>78153820
His name is Spider-Man you doof
>>78152337
>indiean pls go and stay go
Fuck off
>>78153885
By "cape" I meant someone with the usual "super"-shit: flight, super strength, etc. Spidey...he's not a cape. He's a spandex.
>its a quitely fight scene
Muh dick
>>78154102
>someone with the usual "super"-shit: flight, super strength, etc
They are called "flying bricks"
>>78152131
I fucking hate Batman.
>>78153632
>>78152131
I often feel that fight scenes are rushed. You can't use 5 or 10 pages for one fight scene. The writer needs those to make the story goes forward. So the artist can't really stage a good fight. There's the same problem in euro comics.
>>78152392
Ignore this fucking piece worthless human trash.
Ivan Reis is incredible and vastly superior to Lee or Booth.
https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/superman-vs-shazam-new-52-3.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/120679/3241277-justiceleague_16_thegroup-013.jpg
J H Williams is pretty damn good in the fight scene department...
>>78156040
>>78156078
Superman and flash admit they're equal
Stefano caselli
>>78152392
>Really shitty ones like Ivan Reis
get the fuck outta here faggot
>>78155093
Oh?
*ponders*
How appropriate.
>>78152131
It's because western cartoonists suck at choreography and their fight scenes are just a series of punches and kicks with no thought to how they connect or flow.
>>78152349
>Marvel/DC comics
>static 2 pages or 2 double pages spread
>talk talk talk talk while fighting
>throwing one punch = almost 35 seconds reading their dialogue
This issue of Omega Men was pretty great.
>>78156664
these... are not a well designed fight scenes imo. kinda lazy paneling.
>>78156664
it would've worked if it wasn't done 'frame by frame' and be only one page or page and a half
it will probably look good as a gif or motion comic
>>78157059
>>78156801
The 3x3s are a, Kirby I think, reference. Maybe Sternako? A Cap or Fury fight
Tradd Moore can draw fights like a motherfucker
>>78153739
>>78153739
>>78153739
SCW wasn't a big thing at the time, only after.
>>78152131
I'll never understand why cape artists don't use speed lines. They're such a basic and effective tool to imply movement, and manga have shown that you can do it in a realistic context (Vagabond). If you just draw people like in the OP it looks like they're statues. Even the best of the best artists seem to draw people really well but they lack the very basics of cartooning.
>>78156111
>Those were for charity, Clark
>>78156801
I bet you think Watchmen has lazy paneling too.
Some comics do fights pretty well, most others don't. I always thought manga had the advantage over comics when it came to fight scenes.
Speaking of which, a anon posted a link to a guy's thesis about crafting action scenes in comics that was really in depth. I've been using this as help for my own comics.
This shit is groundbreaking.
http://ecollections.scad.edu/iii/cpro/DigitalItemViewPage.external?sp=1002491
>>78156664
The panels don't flow into each other very well.
>>78157152
I think Moore is probably the best at fight scenes right now.
Current Midnighter has some really interesting and energetic action. Highlight of the book for me.
1/2
>>78157491
2/2
>>78152131
In general, yes, though there are obviously exceptions.
There are three reasons in my opinion.
First is the writers: they just fuck everything up with an unnecessary amount of dialogue in the fights. It removes all sense of movement. Comics are an especially difficult medium because the writer/artist must somehow influence the reader's eye, and too many speech bubbles can really take away from the art.
The second is actually the artists. So many capeshit artists only know how to draw muscley dudes in cool poses. Again, there's no movement there. It just looks fucking gay and retarded most of the time.
The third is just the nature of American comics versus manga where a single issue in western comics has to tell a fairly large amount of story. That means a fight is usually a few pages long at the most, whereas a manga might draw a fight out over several chapters.
Somebody post Moore's fights please.
Here'sOPMin return.
>>78157660
OPM is a great story board. But does not do much with the page.
>>78157506
> capeshit writers are shit
> capeshit artists are shit
> capeshit
So basically capeshit is shit.
>>78157660
inb4 go back to /a/
>>78157660
>People still claims that OPM can beat Supes or Flash
>>78157689
Only with these animated sequences. Murata does normal page layouts all the time.
>>78157692
>So basically capeshit is shit.
Yes but there are exceptions which is true of most media.
Most TV shows suck, most manga is fucking awful, and most comic books are bad.
But I like some of them enough to keep reading
>>78157738
Not good ones.
>>78157755
Yes, he does.
>>78157689
Yeah, Murata's fight scenes are pretty good at depicting impact.
>>78157692
no
>>78157689
I don't like OPM but it reads beautifully and Murata is a beast.
>>78157751
> implying there is capeshit that's actually good
>>78157780
Looks like I was wrong, they went for "Murata isn't good at comics"
Kekkles
>>78157737
Yep
In one punch
>>78157813
There is, bro. You have to look a little, but there is.
ATAAAA!!!
>>78157828
Can't punch what you can't touch, bruh
>>78157506
I'm not sure dialogue is unnecessary a lot of the time. The dialogue and even captions helps guide the eye and connect the panels - without the words, the panels can seem really disjointed.
A lot of the rules for superhero fights in comics come from Jack Kirby, who would draw a fight scene in a very compressed way - there's some sense of sequence there, but it's really almost like highlights from the fight, rather than a step-by-step portrayal of the fight.
>>78158090
Look how much better and dynamic it looks with speed lines.
>>78158090
Sorry, I'm not saying that dialogue is bad in fights, but I do think that too much of it can clutter the panels.
>>78158041
Only powerlevelfags claim such things. Saitama is the strongest in his own universe, it's not a dick measuring contest, and it shouldn't be seriously compared, or taken seriously anyway.
These aren't examples of great fights, they're great punches.
Appropriate af tho
>>78156202
>*ponders*
Leave.
JrJr murders it with fights. Howard Porter too recently.
i'm basically gonna just post.bump this thread with people I think of but post more fights you fucks
>>78152131
problem here is the inker. dont have the original
art to tell if the pencils fucked it up too.
>>78157879
but you can compare to this, and see what is wrong.
ignore the blur. and even ignoring the speedlines in the BG. look at the crosshatching for the shading. in this art the shading follows the lines of action. it accents the motion. its not just a static image with speedlines in the background. the very lineart itself has hatched lines to depict impact and motion.
>>78156202
>*ponders*
Get the fuck out
Do the weeaboos on /a/ have Japanese resources to draw speed lines btw? Warren posted something years ago with tricks like putting a pin on the drawing board and using it as a pivot for the straightedge, to ink bursting speed lines
