friendly reminder
Does everyone here hate Cap for not being a blatant racist or do they somehow convince themselves that Cap is a blatant racist?
If you aren't standing for what you believe in, someone else will and someone else will win unopposed. Which would be bad because either way you already have an idea of what should be done but you are not the one calling the shots.
if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything
If that's the message OP got from Cap's "River of Truth" speech, then he's even more of a faggot than usual.
If you read just the one page where he gives the finale of his speech, then that's the message you get. But reading the entire thing clues you in to the fact that he's explaining that if you whole-heartedly believe in what you're doing, and it's completely in line with your personal moral code, then you don't let yourself be bullied or quietened into submission.
>>78121203
Bitch, that quote was great. Back when Cap was actually fucking Cap.
I stopped caring about the comics when A vs X happened, completely out of character. Only faithful version of Cap nowadays is the MCU version.
Or has Cap returned to his old self in the comics?
>>78121230
They convince themselves he sides with their ideology.
>>78123058
You mean this?
>>78121230
There was so guy posting "Don't tread on me" pictures and flags with Cap shooped in them. He did this unironically, and it was the funniest shit ever.
>>78121203
>non-Americans try to understand freedom
>>78123058
But that would justify anything. Anything.
It has been used to do precisely that.
>>78124613
It's so pitiful watching them try to understand
>>78124570
But what if what you believe in has been proven not to work? Such as the thing he was fighting for?
So if the whole nation comes to a democratic consensus on something you don't like, you should keep throwing a tantrum about it until you are locked up or killed. Because your personal beliefs should always trump the law.
Isn't the whole point of Captain America that he fights for the 'American Dream', how he sees it, whether people agree with him or not?
I mean, what are you gonna do if you don't plant your feet somewhere- if you have no non-negotiables?
Someone else is gonna have one, and then it'll be yours, and it may not be the right one.
Oh, what am I saying? Nobody can even agree on what's good or evil anymore, yet yell at each other for breaking an unspoken code anyways.
You feed the poor? Evil.
You kill the poor? Evil.
You leave the poor be? Evil.
Fucking people.
>>78124714
So what is freedom?
>>78122901
Bruh. That's some legitimately deep shit.
>>78124767
America
>>78124779
But Freedom isn't Free, and America is the land of the Free, so America can't be Freedom.
>>78124767
>he doesn't know
>>78124801
Yeah well fuck you it's America
>>78121203
>>78124705
It doesn't justify anything. It's saying what you're doing is right; it's saying that if you truly believe in something, then be a man and stand up for it. You can be right or wrong, but you have a duty to yourself to follow it through to the end.
>>78121230
>>78124539
>>78124579
There was a thread a few weeks back that made it to like 300 posts before mods deleted where a bunch of anons were arguing that Batman would be a Trump supporter, Superman would oppose gay marriage, Cap would citizen's arrest Obama, etc. Anyone who disagreed with their characterization was a sjw redditor that wanted a hugbox /co/.
When comic book villains talk about humans being bastards at heart, sometimes I have to wonder if somehow, they really are right.
>>78124855
What if world except Cap agrees on killing all the animals in the planet does that mean Cap is a nazi too?
>>78124767
If you need freedom explained to you then you'll never know freedom.
>>78124767
Not having to look up if you're allowed to do something you want to do in your country. Because even if you're not supposed to, you know it'll either be inconsequential or there'll be a notification somewhere. Obviously this doesn't apply to something inherently insane like target shooting on a skyscraper, but fishing in one river vs another, camping on unmarked property, shit like that where technically it's 100% illegal, but no one is going to alert the constabulary of your tommyknocking-about, even if they did they wouldn't give a shit. Not having to be afraid of inconsequential shit getting you thrown in the slammer, that's what freedom feels like.
>>78124848
Why so free tho?
>>78124943
>>78124751
Being legal doesn't make it right. If slavery was reinstated, and it was the law that you had to beat your slaves no less than five times a day, would you do it just because it's the law? Or if what if Tuesday was declared ass fuck Tuesday, and every Tuesday, you and only you have to get fucked in the ass with no lube?
>>78124943
Because it's America.
>>78124803
It's more that I am asking what he thinks freedom is.
>>78124886
Does that cover the possibility of realizing you were wrong from the start? And where do you go from there?
>>78124905
I can't stress this enough: Nothing about humanity is simple. Nothing.
>>78124924
Turn that around. What if he believed with all his heart that killing all the animals was the right thing to do?
>>78124767
Freedom is being able to take your life by the reins and pick a path for yourself. It's the ability to follow that path wherever it may lead. It's being able to reach the end and know you did it on your own and for your own reasons. Freedom is making choices on your own morals and convictions, regardless of who may say what. No matter what the government tries to force you to believe, or how many people pound on your door and tell you to stop, you keep going because your life is yours to control and your thoughts are yours to make.
That's something that just doesn't exist anymore, though.
>>78121230
i like that he's not racist. he just doesn't like bullies.
>>78124985
Paradox
>>78124751
>Because your personal beliefs should always trump the law.
Yes. However if one of your personal beliefs isn't to obey the law within reason then you have a problem.
>>78125023
>anymore
>implying it ever fucking existed
>>78124936
In that case I am free.
But not an American.
I'd have to say I feel that in many ways I am more free than most US citizens.
>>78124964
I think you're kind of deliberately drawing the problem into the ridiculous here. Cap was not fighting slavery, but the mandatory registration of potentially harmful super powers. You know. Like the mandatory registration of potentially harmful fire arms.
>>78124964
>slavery
>ass fuck Tuesday
Sign me up
>>78124985
If you're wrong right from the start, you may be a bad person for seeing it through, but at least you've been true to yourself. Every many has a duty to himself to see his dreams to the end, no matter the cost. It's up to everyone else to stop him if they deem it wrong.
>>78121203
This should be a 4chan banner.
>>78125110
It should, actually.
How do they get proposed?
>>78125023
But is that freedom limitless? What if your actions endanger other people, or their freedom?
Should someone be free to use, say, the ability to control gravity, with total impunity? Even seemingly harmless powers, like Cloud 9's flying power, could get someone killed without her wanting to - she'd only have to slip up once to fatally interfere with the flight of a helicopter, for instance. But if she were soundly trained and licensed, that risk would be severely reduced. And registration would discourage someone from mischief, knowing they could easily be traced and arrested.
>>78124985
>What if he believed with all his heart that killing all the animals was the right thing to do?
Then somebody else who believes it's wrong will stop him.
He isn't saying "FUCK YOU MY WAY IS TRUTH". He's saying that everyone should decide for themselves and not let others dictate their lives.
>>78124975
Damn right
>>78125144
>But if she were soundly trained and licensed
It's a shame that's not what happened and instead they turned her into a sociopathic sniper...
>>78125093
That seems very selfish and irresponsible a viewpoint. Kind of Nietzschian, which I am not condemning per se, but it's still a dangerous road to take.
What dreams would be worth the risk of cutting yourself off from humanity?
>>78125062
Take this guy (if he is a guy)'s dreams. Is that really such a good idea?
No, only the largest and loudest mob is right. All individuals must yield to the mob regardless of what they believe or how they live their life. Strong will and holding to higher ideals is wrong
>>78125144
>Should someone be free to use, say, the ability to control gravity
Yeah, go ahead, tell Graviton he needs to register right now and have a subdermal tracking chip implanted in his scrotum. I'm sure he won't laugh, then kill you.
>>78125220
What does humanity have for me that is worth the death of my dreams?
>>78125158
But he fought for the freedom of any super-powered individual to NOT be registered and trained - to use their abilities, their superhuman abilities, as they saw fit. That's a hell of a thing, especially after Stamford.
>>78125206
She wasn't a sociopath (That's not something you can become anyway). She hated being a sniper, so she closed herself off from it.
>>78121203
Today I will remind them
>>78125144
You asked what freedom was and I described it. What's right and wrong is your decision. Also, don't worry. I'm pretty sure nobody is going to start controlling gravity or flying and flipping helicopters any time soon.
>>78125220
Again, I didn't say your dreams had to be right. Many horrible people have had horrible dreams that they sought out. The quality of your dream is inconsequential. As long as you're seeing it through, you're fulfilling your duty to yourself. Other people have just as much a right to stop you if they feel your dream is wrong, but that doesn't mean you should stop. If you weren't meant to succeed, you wouldn't. Betraying yourself because of what others say makes you even worse of a person than you already are for doing such things.
>>78125241
If the mob is trying to defend life and limb from a minority the members of which have shown in the past to be capable of destroying small towns, then yes. The mob may have a point.
>>78125272
Everything that humanity has ever produced, including yourself. What will you do all alone? What will you create that means anything to anyone else? And if you produce nothing for anybody except yourself, does that not justify humanity in any action it takes when your ends oppose its ends?
If you place yourself outside humanity, you have no claim on any part of it and it is free, possibly forced, to view you as a threat, or at least competition. Why would you choose that, if you yourself are a human?
>>78125244
True that. It's probably better applied to avoid mistakes than actual crimes.
On the other hand: had Graviton received proper counseling right after he gained his powers... Unlike Magneto, he never found a cause. He just did whatever he felt like. He was disconnected. If he had been more 'grounded'... (sic)
>>78125317
There is no such thing as one generalized freedom that everyone shares
>>78125273
>But he fought for the freedom of any super-powered individual to NOT be registered and trained - to use their abilities, their superhuman abilities, as they saw fit. That's a hell of a thing, especially after Stamford.
The registration side was retardedly evil. And as I said, he's just saying that people should stick to their guns. His guns might be different than yours, but that's not important.
>>78125409
I am what humanity has produced, and the fulfillment of my dream is what us best for everyone else, whether they see that now or not
>>78125144
Because strict regulation helped bring down mass shootings, right?
You fuckers deserve skrulls and doombots wrecking your shit every week.
I thought I'd never get to use this image this festive season...
>>78125410
>There is no such thing as one generalized freedom that everyone shares
It's this little thing called "free will".
>>78125317
That is true.
>>78125394
I know myself better than you do. And I dare say betraying myself before I betray everybody else is the right choice. And you know what? I think that goes for most people.
>>78125427
>The registration side was retardedly evil.
They were portrayed that way. Unfairly. Tony Stark creating a prison... and it's an inhumane hellhole? Really now? Cloning Thor? That that is even possible is just... weird to me.
Also I think that it is pretty critical what guns you stick to. Sticking to your guns is not difficult at all. We call that being stubborn. People are really good at it.
>>78125430
What dream could that be?
>>78125435
What strict regulation would that be? Because it sure didn't include not allowing people with mental issues or terrorist leanings to own automatic fire arms.
>>78125533
>What strict regulation would that be? Because it sure didn't include not allowing people with mental issues or terrorist leanings to own automatic fire arms.
There is always push back against that kind of legislation because the answer to who will determine who is mentally unfit or a terrorist is always, why the government of course. That is not the kind of power they can be trusted with. You want to stop mentally ill people from going on rampages, make it easier for them to get treatment, and don't make them second class citizens in the process. Many mentally ill people that need treatment, and know it, have refused to get it, because they know that by doing so, they will be stripped of their rights.
>>78125436
Wait, you don't actually pronounce the r in britbong land?! Why is it even there?!
>>78125533
Automatic firearms are illegal in the US.
Also I think your missing the point. Choosing your own beliefs and defending them is all he's saying.
>>78126002
>Automatic firearms are illegal in the US.
They are and they aren't. You can purchase them if you fill out the right forms and pay the may I please have my full second amendment rights Mr. ATF tax stamp, but you can only get one that was manufactured prior to the machine gun registry closing(1986, burn in hell Charlie Rangel you freedom hating boot licking statist piece of shit)for private ownership. Any automatic firearm produced after is only available as a dealer sample.
>>78125450
We don't have free will, we simply have limited choices based upon our perceptions and understanding of ourselves and the wider existence around us
>>78125427
>The registration side was retardedly evil
Yes, in tASM (which gave as that stupid Cap speech) or Black Panther.
In the main story it is anti-registration that is aggressive, stupidly headstrong to the point common men like fire-fighters and cops risk their lives to protect Tony and fight Rogers.
>>78125533
I dream of the Fourth Reich obviously
>>78125533
>They were portrayed that way. Unfairly
Fucking cry about it, that's the way the story happened. If that shit wasn't going down maybe Cap would have seen it a little differently.
The point of that speech is that Captain America knows that it can be used to justify anything - but he's not some supervillain or nazi, he's Captain fucking America, and his ideals are just and righteous. And he'll test his ideals against yours and they'll come out on top, because he knows his are stronger.
>>78126181
Keep dreaming then. It'll remain a dream.
>>78126149
As opposed to pro-reg who was putting niggas in the negative zone, murdering Bill Foster, etc
>>78121203
That's because he's always right
>tony don't do that you'll fuck everything up
>tony does it and fucks everything up
>hank don't do that you'll fuck everything up
>hank does it and fucks everything up
>>78126216
This. The tragedy of AvX was that both Cap and Cylcops have the superpower of always being right, no matter what.
>>78126214
"murdering"?
He was killed in combat. People die in a war and again, it was ANTI-reg who were the aggressors..
And US puts suspected terrorists in prison all the time without a proper trial.
I will never understand why people say it is character assassination for Tony, when it is Steve that aggressively leashes out and acts like a violent maniac
>>78126149
>implying cops and firemen would ever be in any real danger from Captain fucking America
>>78126262
Just because they were wrong doesn't mean Cap and Cyclops plans would've worked.
>>78126284
In a fight between superheroes and superheroes, the side that kills someone has fucked up irredeemably
>>78126284
>when it is Steve that aggressively leashes out and acts like a violent maniac
Because he realizes he's winning everything but the arguement at the end and tells everyone fighting is for retards. Prior to that he was getting instantly hunted down the minute he even implied he wasn't onboard with pro-reg. Violent maniac is a horseshit exaggeration and you know it, you're just saying it for the sake of arguing.
>>78126214
And putting murderous psychopaths like Normal Osborn in positions of authority.
>>78126206
That's what they said about the Third Reich too my friend. Small minds have always called us fools and dreamers
>>78126330
No, the fact that Cap and Rightclops are always right is what means it would've worked
>>78126284
>having a hole blasted in him isn't murder
>it happens in the real world so it's okay
>>78121203
Just like Dr. Abraham Erskine said.
"The serum enhances everything, so something bad becomes worst and something good becomes Grate"I don`t remember the quote 100% so don`t judge me
>>78125933
>There is only one accent in Britain.
Okay anon.
What if Cap won the war? What would he do? Overthrow the Congress and force new elections? And what if the people would again vote for support of Registration? Would he again overthrow it or this time strike so much fear into people they would not dare to vote pro-SHRA side?
You forget Stark was basically just a pawn enforcing the law.
>>78126386
He'd keep superheroing until the government said "it's pointless to keep going after this fuck all he does is help people and we're wasting time and resources". People would lobby against registration when they remember the good heroes do.
>>78126386
Steve fights for the dream. He is the dream. He is not confined by politics
>>78126421
>People would lobby against registration
They did not. And what is good is relevant.
>>78126441
>did not
The point was that they would in time when they realize "fuck, we need this guy fighting supervillains for us"
The act got repealed eventually anyway remember?
>>78126438
..so he would ignore democracy..
>>78126421
It was "good heroes" that blew up the school
>>78126469
>It was "good heroes" that blew up the school
It was some dipshits with a tv show trying to do more than just help people. Captain America doesn't make those mistakes.
>>78126468
>The act got repealed eventually anyway remember?
They set up Avengers Academy, just watered down Initiative and Rogers become the director of SHIELD.
They met in the middle.
>>78124520
Soon, after the Civil War movie comes out
>>78126354
>>78126354
The difference now is we seen what happened with a 3rd, so no one will let that happen again.
Only fools and dreamers will think so. Delude yourself if you want though, you're doing no harm.
>>78121203
>>78124985
Every week some dipshit on /co/ brings up how you can twist that quote around to support any kind of ideal or viewpoint and acts like it's some groundbreaking shit that nobody has ever said before
You're not smart, you're just being contrarian faggots wanking over yourselves
The bottom line is that Captain America admits when he's wrong and he doesn't use a silver tongue to justify evil, unfair actions, and he clearly was not doing anything near the levels of fucked up as the other side
Inb4 "bad writing, etc"
Fucking cry about it, that's how it went down. Stop getting assmad because you thought registration was a good idea in-universe and the story didn't happen how you wanted it in your head
>>78125056
People choose to buy guns. They don't choose to get bitten by radioactive spiders.
>>78126569
This isn't something that society allows to happen. The Fourth Reich will come to you like a thief in the night and take your way of life from you like it was never yours to begin with.
>>78126469
Democracy is a lie
>>78126960
>The Fourth Reich will come to you like a thief in the night and take your way of life from you like it was never yours to begin with.
Lack of organization and computer nerds will make sure that military put any movement like that under the seat.
>can legally carry guns
>can legally 420 blaze it fgt
>age of consent is 14
>so politically incorrect our politicians go on social media ranting about how they want immigrants to leave
Tell me americans how are you more free than me?
>>78126960
>The Fourth Reich will come to you like a thief in the night and take your way of life from you like it was never yours to begin with.
>/pol/ waddles down to a neo-nazi meet
>Le 'Fourth Reich' is started
>Immediately get curb stomped by police force of 3 fat asshole
>>78127110
forgot to mention
>people are so technologically retarded is not illegal to pirate shit from the internet and sell it on the street
>some people make a living out of it
Even my internet is more freedom than you.
>>78127110
Don't you know that marajuana is bad for you and that immigrants are all angels? You aren't a degenerate are you?
>>78127110
>>78127140
what cunt
>>78126960
The Internet and a life of affluence has made all you fucks lazy. A bunch of neo-fags will never amount to anything besides keks. It's cool to imagine though
>>78127110
Switzerland?
>>78125436
Merry Christmas, Anon!
>>78127110
where is this magical placE?
>>78127123
What are you even implying, retard
>>78127110
>so politically incorrect our politicians go on social media ranting about how they want immigrants to leave
Why are people so butthurt about us refusing immigrants? We're ALLOWED to do that.
>>78121203
FREEDOM ISN'T FREE!
BUT THERE'S A HEFTY FUCKING FEE!
>>78124744
Well that happened to Cap in Civil War and he moved aside when he realized that the people didn't want what he did and that he was wrong.
>>78126386
I imagine he would have freed all of the prisoners and made sure they got proper medical attention after their ordeal. Then he would have marched them all on Washington and have them stand in front of the various centers of power. Then he would have shouted a very long, patriotic speech that would have sounded asinine or sarcastic from anyone else, but for cap sounded like the truth from the mountaintop.
Then the same people behind the whole Avenger's academy deathcamp crap would have tried to nuke the heroes in a very public manner only to have the pro-reg heroes appear and stop it.
Cap would have used that as a reason why you have to help the government but not necessarily 'trust' the government. Then people all party and the skrulls show up.
>>78126333
Yeah him jumping on that jet was because Hill was going to jump him with her Shielddogs for not registering and even afterwards he took the jet pilot for a burger.
