So a lot of people have noticed and commented repeated over the years that /co/ hates pretty much all female characters in anything ever.
Here's a question for you, /co/.
Are there any female characters you like not for their appearance, but for the quality of writing applied to their characters and plot lines? Why do do like the writing for these characters? What did the writers do right, what did the creators do right?
As for the characters you hate (Mabel, ALL the female characters on arrow, all female characters in everything), why do you dislike the way the showrunners/creators/writers wrote for them, what did the writers do wrong, how did the writers/creators fuck up so badly?
Here's what I expect every post in this thread to be, so I'll get it out of the way:
- women are only good for sex
- women are just for breeding
- all women are evil
- jews niggers mudslimes kek c~u ck
- I only like three year old girls I can fantasize about raping
>female
>good
>like
>lol
>implying
- bitches bitches bitches waifu fuck rape kill rape kill waifu waifu
- I hate female characters because women are inferior also cavemen i hate femalez
But maybe one or two of you will give me a real answer. Probably not.
>baiting this hard
![King.of.the.Hill.S12E15.WEB-DL.SD.H.264.mp4_snapshot_09.23_[2015.12.06_22.51.41].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/9xJsvH7.jpg "King.of.the.Hill.S12E15.WEB-DL.SD.H.264.mp4_snapshot_09.23_[2015.12.06_22.51.41].jpg")
this seems like it could be a successful troll thread, so i'm donating a reply.
An investment, if you will.
>>78109642
>this blatant bait
>basically inviting neckbeard shit
MOOOOOOOODS
>>78109685
Genuinely not bait, although I expect all troll replies because this is 4chan. I honestly want to know if anyone here likes the writing for any female character rather than just thinking their character design is sexy and what kind of writing they like/dislike. Not expecting an answer but genuinely curious.
>>78109642
>Are there any female characters you like not for their appearance, but for the quality of writing applied to their characters and plot lines?
Yeah, but they aren't /co/-related.
>>78109770
>Yeah, but they aren't /co/-related.
Sure, they can be from other media. Just curious.
>>78109642
A /co/ related character I think is well written: Azula.
>>78109642
>Are there any...
no but there aren't any male characters that meet those criteria either
>>78109642
I'd answer your question, but you seem more content whining about retards on /co/ than actually stirring discussion. Go cry somewhere else.
>>78109642
almost every female character in Scott pilgrim vs. the world
not just because they are hotwhich is part of the reason, but also because they make me genuinely feel emotion more than "My dick wants it". for example, i like Knives thing where shes a confused, heartbroken girl feeling vengeance because her dickhead boyfriend cheated on her, but she's still an adorable 17 year old kid looking for love. i could make more examples from this book, but i'm tired and i'm trying to watch every single episode of KND, so good luck with your experiment guy. hope you don't feel that way about everyone on 4chan!
![king.of.the.hill.s10e04.dvdrip.x264-ositv.mkv_snapshot_03.53_[2015.11.11_17.51.06].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ADtDB6R.jpg "king.of.the.hill.s10e04.dvdrip.x264-ositv.mkv_snapshot_03.53_[2015.11.11_17.51.06].jpg")
>>78109735
You know, kid, it's Friday and I'm feeling generous. I really am. End of the work week and I patched some stuff up with my girlfriend, so I'll give this one a whirl. I really hope you take this reply to heart, because it's all you deserve. Here it goes.
>So a lot of people have noticed and commented repeated over the years that /co/ hates pretty much all female characters in anything ever.
This was your first fault, and honestly a really effective bait. Not only did you group the entire userbase of /co/ into one projection, but you did it on a trendy subject. This is false.
>Are there any female characters you like not for their appearance, but for the quality of writing applied to their characters and plot lines? (...)
You're really asking a lot of questions here. This is like an interview and you're really not going to get a lot of replies. Nobody has the time to read all this. But I'll give my answer: I like lots of female characters and I identify more with them. In recent comics, the cast of Paper Girls are fun to follow (their appearance is normal-looking 80s pre-teen girls). I'm reading TDKR right now and Robin is really great. I found the women of Y The Last Man to be strong characters, and they weren't stereotyped because 90% of the characters in that series were women. So you really got to enjoy their human aspects.
>As for the characters you hate (Mabel, ALL the female characters on arrow...)(...)
Stop projecting. I, like many, am neutral to these characters. I'm not going to answer this question because I am unqualified to.
>Here's what I expect every post in this thread to be, so I'll get it out of the way:
This entire "list" throws your thread into the crapper. It was entirely needless and shows your bias against the board. It's so absurdly unnecessary that I'd be surprised if anyone else bothered to give you an actual reply, because you did not put the amount of quality into your thread that you're expecting from the replies.
>>78109824
>>78109865
>>78109961
>>78109973
Thanks so much for your answers!
No, I don't feel that way about everyone on 4chan by a long shot, I've just noticed over the years that discussions about writing for female characters tend to be quickly dominated by the kinds of posts I mentioned so I thought I'd just throw it all out there to get it over with. I'm a very oldfag (from SA's ADTRW days) and it's been getting boring lately, as anything does. Thanks again.
>>78109642
I feel like you've never been on /co/, honestly. Yes, /co/ usually has more issues with female characters than male ones but it has nothing to do with the things you posted. Like, I barely ever see any of that shit on here. The problems /co/ usually has with female characters is that they are written poorly and given advantages/plot armor over male characters just by virtue of them being a female character. /co/ has far more issue with writers than the characters.
>>78110067
SA has been completely transformed from the top down to be extremely SJW
>>78109642
>/co/ hates pretty much all female characters in anything ever.
>waifu threads every single day
>>78109980
Sure, thanks for your honest answer.
TL;DR OP was borne from years of reading stale memes, I understand if it doesn't get replies. I was here at the beginning and it's not a "trendy" topic but it has gotten a lot worse over time, to the point that it seemed an exponential upward slope before leveling off a bit more recently.
>>78110100
I'll grant you that other boards are much worse, especially /tv/. Actually, female characters from tv shows seem to get the most hate here, too. Just curious.
I like X-23 as a good representation of what growing up in an abusive environment leaves you like but everyone hates her and calls her a meme.
>>78110190
It's very different today from when I was a regularly poster there starting around 2001 or so.
>>78110226
That's why I was curious what people looked for in writing rather than simply attractive character designs.
Off the top of my head, Modesty Blaise, Halo Jones, Kate Spencer, Lady Shiva (under Denny O'Neil), Judge Anderson, Judge Hershey, Jennifer Blood, Ms. Tree and Renee Montoya.
Overall, I like that they're characters with a strong degree of agency within their stories, with motivations and goals and personalities that go beyond what's necessary for the story. They're not plot props or shallow love interests, but characters in their own right. Even when they're not the protagonist, they retain enough individuality to be something more than a talking head. And when they are main characters, they're allowed to struggle, develop, evolve, grow and change with time. They're well-written, three-dimensional and compelling in their own ways, and none of those ways feel gimmicky or cheap.
>>78110067
>>78109642
/co/ is 75% is women the rest is gay men
draw your own conclusions
>>78109642
>>78109735
>>78110067
>So many people calling bait thread
>Didn't argue with them once
is this what they call that old people wisdom shit? when i become an oldfag, will i be as fucking calmand less autisticthen you o mighty oldfag?
>>78110354
What I've read including X-23 has been pretty interesting. Thank you.
>>78110419
All characters I've enjoyed, as well. Thank you.
I appreciated the characters of Y: The Last Man as well.
The main problem are 1) male comic writers who have a warped perception of women from a lifetime of being autists and basically just end up writing their sex fantasies and 2) SJWs trying to make female characters unrealistically perfect or as some cringe worthy mouth piece for their politics.
This happens less with male characters since there's less cultural junk floating around about masculinity.
>>78110528
I know this may sound odd, but posting on this and sites like it occasionally for about a decade and a half has actually led me to not get seriously riled by anything online anymore. I feign a bit of irritation for fun or to vent once in a rare while (as I did in the OP) but after a couple of years of, well, you know the kinds of replies you're likely to get here (and I've been to places where it's actually worse), it never seriously upsets me anymore. It's all just good fun. If an OP or post of mine doesn't work out, no big deal.
In a way, I think it could be beneficial for a lot of people as it's helped me develop a thicker skin.
>>78109642
4chan in general does everything via hyperbole, over compensation and kneejerk reactions. Feminism and diversity have been being pushed really hard in video games and comics/cartoons in the last 5 years or so and this is essentially a backlash of childish proportions. While I don't like the push either, I'm not having kneejerk reactions and judging every female and/or minority character with 10x scrutiny as I do white male characters.
I try to judge based on the character as a character and not as a demographic.
As to a female character I think most of /co/ likes in ways other than "She's hot, I want to fuck her," (which is, I think Impossible to find a female character /co/ DOESN'T want to fuck) I would say Kim Possible.
Kim is a badass in terms of fighting and saving the day, but socially with people her own age, she's just a high school girl. She has a rival she sometimes loses out to: Bonnie. She gets nervous and tongue tied around someone she's crushing on, and she gets embarrassed just like any other high school girl.
Kim wasn't written perfect or always able to cope, or always right even when she's not right. She's well rounded.
>>78110647
>This happens less with male characters since there's less cultural junk floating around about masculinity.
There isn't less cultural junk about masculinity so much as the stuff that's there allows for more creative freedoms. You can make a guy an asshole or a monster or expendable and no one is going to bat an eye. Additionally a male character has to earn audience sympathy, which means the writers NEED to put more effort in.
I put my plump penis in her pretty pink prepubescent pussy. It popped as I pushed it in but the pain soon became pleasure. I would have prolonged my passionate plunging but her papa was parking his pickup by the picket fence. So I panicked and finished prematurely into her pink panties.
>>78109802
Okay, just off the top of my head, the ones I can think off:
Elaine Benes from Seinfeld, because she's every bit as flawed and petty and prone to self-sabotage as the the other three, and the writing doesn't shy from shitting on her.
Akemi Homura from PMMM, because she in the end goes flat-out insane - not the typical, giggly cartoonish "insane", but genuinely and disturbingly deranged.
Yarizui Sen from Ben-To, because I think she's an all around cool, disciplined girl dedicated to fighting and victory, yet doesn't refrain from expressing her concern for her friends. Most people like/prefer Shaga, but Sen's seriousness and dedication topple her imho.
Endou Kanna from 20th Century Boys, because of the drama of her character. I... cannot say more because the story has too many twists to talk about it without spoilers.
Ah, I thought of a /co/-related one. Scar from GLTAS. She's ruthless, has great lines and her actions, both in the past as in the present, drive much of the plot for season 2.
And finally, Lady Aethelflaed, a real-life person, because of her deeds as the monarch of Mercia during the Danish invasion of England.
>>78109642
ill bite
It's because female characters are usually poorly handled. their either preachy over the top naggers, sex fiends, bull dykes, or soft spoken and nice to the point they add absolutely nothing to the show.
If people wrote actual characters instead of writing one dimensional 'feminist' inspired bullshit characters or fap fuel and waifus.
You wouldn't be here trying to troll some mean comments for your tumblr blog about how bad the patriarchy is to de wimmins and I'd be doing something worth while instead of giving you stuff to quote mine.
>>78110789
Thanks very much for your answer.
>>78110795
>You can make a guy an asshole or a monster or expendable and no one is going to bat an eye.
I enjoy flawed characters, and have been confused sometimes when female anti-heroes seem to get a lot of flack while male anti-heroes are more positively received. When I first started discussing shows online, there were a lot of complaints about too perfect, Mary Sue female characters. I'm happy now to see a greater variety of female character who have the same kinds of flaws and plot arcs male characters have (including being monsters), but have always been confused by the double standard, as this kind of think is what fan communities said they wanted in the late 90s.
This is Lina Inverse
Lina Inverse is the hero of the show Slayers
Lina is brash, selfish, greedy, and cowardly
Lina leans towards good but does plenty of bad
Lina is the victim of slapstick humor and the butt of many jokes
Lina's friends give her shit just as often as she gives them shit
If Lina fucks up the narrative won't blame someone else, the narrative will blame Lina
You mentioned Mabel, so let's talk about Mabel.
Mabel fucks up all the time but hardly has to own up to it, it's her brother, Dipper, that has to sacrifice
In the Legend of Korra Korra is a massive fuck up but everything she does works out for the better. Korra's mentor Tenzin sings her praise at the end of each season
Finally, in the new Thor comic series with a female Thor, the villain(ess) lets Thor go because she "respects her for being a woman."
The problem with female characters in comics and cartoons is that the writers use kid gloves with them.
Viewers don't like double standards, and they don't like characters who automatically win. The number one rule of story telling Pixar has is "We admire a character more for trying than succeeding."
If female characters don't have to try, why the fuck would anyone like them?
>>78110985
One of the reasons you see pushback against female anti-heroes is because there's so few female villains to begin with that every time one of them pulls a heel-face turn you really feel that loss. And it's always done along the same lines. They're given a Freudian excuse as to why it's not really their fault that they were evil in the first place, true love has redeemed them, and it's probably some guy's fault because dudes are the result of all evil (Aka Wicked syndrome).
Look around here. We get dozens of threads on "Why doesn't Batman just kill the Joker?". When was the last time you saw a "Why doesn't Batman just kill Poison Ivy" or "Why doesn't Batman just kill Harley Quinn"? The latter is especially infuriating because rather than actually use their most popular villainess as a villain DC is now dead set on making her their wacky Deadpool anti-but-not-really hero.
As to your second point, you get a lot of accusations about female characters being Mary Sues from people that don't really understand what the term means because, quite frankly, female characters tend to face consequences for their actions on far fewer occasions and with much less severity than their male counterparts, due to cultural norms and writer biases. For example, the Simpsons writers once toyed around with the idea of doing a gag where Homer strangles Lisa and quickly decided that was no good. Bart though? He gets choked out by his 300 pound dad every other week and no one bats an eye. Hell, it's fun for the whole family.
>>78111174
>In the Legend of Korra Korra is a massive fuck up but everything she does works out for the better. Korra's mentor Tenzin sings her praise at the end of each season
Adding to this, it's NOT a coincidence that people sing the praises of the books where she gets her shit wrecked (1, 3) far more frequently compared to the ones where she gets handed wins (2, kind of 4).
And nobody likes a karma Houdini regardless of gender.
>>78110985
female antiheroes get flack because there often one dimensional mary sues
>>78111174
good ol' Lina
>>78111191
i think the fans are the worst of that. harley was consistently the butt of things, and when she was being sexy it felt kinda sad to me, like she was desperate.
Yeah catwoman we cut miles of slack to, but she seemed to have a good heart
poison ivy, i felt, we were ALWAYS supposed to hate. The writers shat on her exactly as hard as they should, they never held back because she was a woman.. they made it clear straightaway she was an inhuman monster and we should want her dead.
>>78111263
I can't think of any female antiheroes besides Korra, and Korra's problem is that she's a convoluted mess of a character
>>78110226
It's the only kind they like.
>>78110647
But /co/ also hates flawed female characters.
>>78109642
>Are there any female characters you like not for their appearance, but for the quality of writing applied to their characters and plot lines?
Gally from Battle Angel is both aesthetically pleasing and interesting. I haven't read LO yet, but the original series managed to never steer away from being about her and all the shit she has had to put up with in her travels/journey of discovering her past.
>>78111433
flawed=/=good
>>78111369
Roundabout the dawn of the new 52 I remember seeing people on the Escapist complaining that DC had ruined Harley and that she was supposed to be a strong female role model. That's pretty much when I gave up on the character.
Because if people are insisting that the only character that can beat out Janet Van Dyne as the poster child for relationship abuse is any kind of a role model then it's pretty obvious that we're not going to get a decently written female character ever because they're always going to have to be role models.
And Ivy is well on the path to heroism simply because she's BFFs with Harley.
>>78109642
>strawmanning this hard
fuck off
>>78111174
Lina's pretty great.
>>78111191
In B:tAS, I felt Harley was the butt of jokes and the subject of slapstick humor, and her actions weren't excused. She was a tragic character, but Joker never forced her to do anything. Actually, she was a shithead before she even met him.
>>78111433
Flaws without consequences aren't flaws. At best they're quirks. And quirks can get obnoxious really easily.
>>78111396
Korra isn't even an anti-hero, which just further proves how big a mess she is.
>>78111396
Korra's problem isn't her flaws. It's everyone's reactions to her flaws and the fact that her flaws define her more than her positive traits. Korra is a muscle head, she screws up a lot but rarely faces any serious consequences (season 3/4 being an exception which probably says alot as to why season 3/4 were so much better than season 1/2.) For 2 seasons, Korra makes dumb decisions, fails, sits down and cries about it, then stuff gets fixed usually without her doing anything and she gets patted on the back.
>>78110647
I think this hits on a very important point. Most of the best writers (art is an entirely different conversation) don't set out to be comic book writers (it's true, you know this). So the ones that do usually fall into one of the two categories mentioned in this post. If the industry could attract more - for lack of a better term - normal writers the characterization of females may be handled better. Again, these are blanket statements and there are always exceptions, but just look at the people writing these things. There's a chance things will change in the future if comics become more accepted as a respected medium through exposure from film/tv crossover.
>>78110067
Where have you been m8
Politics ruined 4chan. All the women hate you see is basically a reactionary move to SJWs annoying people on the Internet.
Scarlet Witch: I love the concept of her character and that she's very human in her strengths and flaws.
X-23 She's a tough lady but she also has humanity and vulnetsbility.
Kamala: Fun and likeable. She just is. There's little to no contrivance.
>>78111759
>I love the concept of her character and that she's very human in her strengths and flaws.
This is basically how I feel about most female characters I like, for better or worse. I like the concepts better than the execution. I think that comes down to writers who can't write women inevitably taking over their books.
>>78110795
There's been alot more stories with male protags so there's lots more established archetypes to use and modify.
Don't get me wrong, I still want to fuck her, but I do legitimately love her character.
>>78111944
This isn't even a matter of archetypes though.
Like, it's probably plebian as hell but one of my favorite book series is The Dresden Files. It's about a private eye wizard, and it does have a fair number of female characters that are pretty awesome, but Harry himself? Harry gets his shit wrecked every book. He gets beaten, bruised, exhausted. He got a hand fucked up so bad by fire that it looked like ground sausage meet for a book or two.
Look at a movie like Die Hard. John McClaine gets put through a meat thresher every movie and we cheer him on through it.
The worst thing to happen to Korra is at the end of book 3 where she gets paralyzed. Her predecessor Aang though? It tends to get overlooked, but Aang *literally died*.
People like characters that overcome suffering. One of the tenents of writing is to kill your darlings for a reason. But female characters always get their suffering and flaws under much harsher scrutiny because then you're glorifying violence against women or saying all women are evil because you wrote one vileness.
tl'dr, find that galbrush threepwood copypasta. A greater variety of archetypes exists for men because it doesn't offend sensibilities when those archetypes are negative in some way.
>>78111568
>Flaws without consequences aren't flaws. At best they're quirks. And quirks can get obnoxious really easily.
I wasn't talking about flaws without consequences.
Look at Jessica Jones. She's deeply flawed and suffers tremendous consequences for those flaws, but /co/'s reaction is to hate her for her flaws.
>>78111733
Both SJWs and the backlash are a bit of a shame, I honestly found 4chan more fun in its early days (not zero politics but fewer, people seemed less uptight than they are today, we made fun of people who gave a shit about anything, for better or worse), but I'm just an old man shaking his cane in that respect.
Anyway, thank you very much for the replies and thoughtful discussion, all, critical of me or no. Very interesting and enlightening replies all around.
>>78112117
I wouldn't know. I haven't watched Jessica Jones so I don't visit the show's threads.
(I didn't watch Daredevil either so this isn't a gender thing)
>>78112117
>Look at Jessica Jones. She's deeply flawed and suffers tremendous consequences for those flaws, but /co/'s reaction is to hate her for her flaws.
This reaction is odd. I feel like the show doesn't present her as a hero or a good person at all, that she's constantly called out/criticized, and that she suffers tremendous consequences for her flaws (actually, I feel she gets far worse than she deserves - she's basically just an alcoholic jerk, but she's really put through the winner and doesn't even really come out on top).
I resent the train of thought that assumes waifu-fagging because it quickly turns into that faulty logic that a physically attractive character can't have any depth.
>>78109642
>So a lot of people have noticed and commented repeated over the years that /co/ hates pretty much all female characters in anything ever
So did Kamala, Hawkgirl, Silk, Mary Jane, Aracely, etc just stopped existing all of a sudden?
>>78112236
It's not so much an attractiveness thing as it is a personality thing.
/co/ likes female characters that they would like as a gf. Pleasant and amusing. They don't like female characters that are boringly nice (which is good), but also don't like female characters who are the slightest bit abrasive (which is dumb).
>>78112389
>/co/ likes female characters that they would like as a gf.
First off, no. Don't start this "/co/ all thinks one thing" shit.
Second, it's absolutely a matter of physical attractiveness causing this shit to be disregarded outside of /co/,
For example, there's this one fun, down to earth female superhero that has a fortune 500 company that, in a rarity for comic book universes, actually tries to make use of all that alien technology and time travel shit to improve the lives of the common man I thought that was a pretty great concept and the character was approachable and the tone of the book was great. It mixed action and comedy in a really satisfying way that was enjoyable to read.
But none of that matters because Power Girl has huge boobs and a cleavage window, so the only reason anyone would ever be reading her book was for the fanservice and all she can ever be is a sex symbol.
Another example. One of my favorite video game characters has a really dark, tragic backstory. She's a child of rape, right? So she gets treated as a pariah by her community and in order to find a place and get some positive attention, she joins up with this crew and gets a new father figure out of the deal. But then her half sister (the village darling coincidentally so you know there's some bad blood and rivalry there) turns on the community, and this character gets tasked with taking her down. In the process, that father figure that gave her a place gets brainwashed, and she has to then kill him. Her life is one big trainwreck after another and she just keeps soldiering through it.
But Ayane can't possibly be a good female character, because again, "Just look at her! She's clearly just there to be a masturbatory aid".
>>78112247
I think the problem stems from the fact that whenever /co/, or at least a decent amount of people on /co/, does like something it almost immediately gets trivialized as only being liked because they're attractive, and whenever something is disliked, it's almost immediately trivialized as people don't find them attractive enough.
Like how Squirrel Girl used to be fairly liked here but now, with Unbeatable, threads almost always boil down to how you've got people going "Oh, you just don't like it because you can't fap to her", or "you only liked her before, because you could".
I mean, waifufaggotry is annoying, but even with that there's more to it than just "I want to put my penis in her".
>>78112117
Eh. Jessica Jones is also riddled with cringe worthy cliches - like the whole rape backstory thing
For being based off a game with so few female characters - and being set around the 50s/60s - the TF2 comics do a really great job with their women.
The Administrator's unsettling nature and constant frustration with the characters make her a fun villain. Watching her schemes play out is cool, and she has enough focus to make her still hold an air of mystery. Miss Pauling manages to be involved in a romantic storyline without it changing her character or goals too much. Even if she's obviously got more social savvy than the mercs in the cast, she makes her share of mistakes, and sometimes comes across as mentally off-kilter. And more recently, Zhanna's just as amusingly violent and dim as the Soldier, and proves a competent ally without winning all their battles.
While some female characters feel completely useless, or so useful that they make other cast members redundant, these ones feel more like they're balancing the team out and filling gaps. There's enough variety in them, they bring their own brand of craziness to the story that matches the males without overshadowing them, and share failures and successes with their Y-chromosome-bearing equivalents. The gap in abilities due to the males all being deadly mercenaries is accounted for, but not limiting for them - they have their own areas of expertise.
I will admit, though, it may be waifuism speaking for one or two of them.
Does this thread prove that /co/ is retarded? I think it does
>>78109642
I'm female and I'll tell you why I don't like most female characters. They're not written as people, they're written as women.
>>78109824
This. And her story isn't even done yet.
>>78113084
Support your assertion.
>>78113109
God I hope it is.
Do you really want Bryke or that comic book guy writing any more Azula?
>>78113109
Scrapper, shut the fuck up.
>>78113178
I just want her redeemed and end it there.
>>78113178
Speaking of which, isn't she coming out on Wednesday?
>>78113178
You're talking to someone who admittedly tortured animals and hurt relatives. Also someone who's sense of reality is ludicrously warped.
>>78112095
I read a great post ages ago and can't find the screenie I took for it.
It made a point that Mad Max: Fury Road had a character literally described as "Something The Fragile." But they could get away with it because the film had a truck full of women that weren't fragile. If "Fragile" was the only woman in the film, it'd be taken as some sort of statement that "All women are Fragile," which is why any "token" characters are all bland and safe. To overcome this, we need more token characters to balance out the equation - that way token characters can stop becoming "token" and become fuller characters int heir own right. Ideally. It ain't worked for Whor yet, but maybe one day...
>>78113100
You create the character and their gender should be secondary except where it applies to the story. Good characterization
Sadly most writers create the "gender" then the character afterwards when they are female. That's more the problem; that writers are closed minded or contrived in their approach.
Male characters tend to be the default; they should not be.
>>78113353
Holy crap dude you make me out to be some sort of nut.
>>78113224
Does Azula need redemption to be a good character?
I think she's much better as competent and crazy
>>78113386
Posted before finishing this part:
* Good characterization flows organically; character traits branch off each other.
>>78113413
Is he wrong?
>>78109642
>So a lot of people have noticed and commented repeated over the years that /co/ hates pretty much all female characters in anything ever.
1/10. Subtlety, my friend. Learn it, love it, or just post an article from Jezebel or something, this isn't brain surgery.
>>78112644
>Don't start this "/co/ all thinks one thing" shit.
Of course I'm not literally saying all of /co/ believes this. It's just shorthand for "It's the most commonly-held stance among /co/ users".
>>78113047
Being a cliche doesn't make it bad. It's handled as a rape backstory ought to be.
>>78113429
I don't think so. Azula has always been a tortured soul and has gone through hell with no one's help. She deserves a second chance.
>>78113442
No but when you put it that way it makes me look bad.
>>78112644
No one said that a character being attractive makes them a bad character. It's just not required for a character to be good, either. It's not a binary thing.
>>78113386
>>78113432
It's precisely why I can't stand females in anime most if the time either. I wish a writer would write a story and gender swap all their characters for the finishing touch, that would be interesting. Especially for a shonnen type story.
>>78113386
This is 100% correct. But even then, /co/ is more likely to dislike the character than not.
Like, if OTGW was gender-swapped, there'd be constant threads about what a terrible person FemWirt is.
>>78113510
>It's not a binary thing.
I'm arguing that in certain circles it is treated as such. I thought that was pretty clear. It's the Barbie paradox.
>>78113484
Cliche is bad. Jessica Jones is a rape victim who punches people and has issues with men because of rape.
There's very little humor to her, and she's not exactly clever. She messes up repeatably and her moment of triumph is killing the main guy by becoming immune to his powers.
She has very little agency. There's not much to like about her, which is fine, but there's also not much to find interesting because she's the cliched rape victim archetype
>>78113606
>Chiche is bad
No, it's just means it's been done a lot.
>Jessica Jones is a rape victim who punches people and has issues with men because of rape.
Jessica doesn't show any issues with men in particular; Her reaction to the event is just pushing people in general away so that they don't get caught up in her problems.
>There's very little humor to her, and she's not exactly clever.
And? Neither of those are necessary for a good character.
>She has very little agency.
But she has complete agency throughout the entire show; the only time she doesn't is in Flashbacks.
>She messes up repeatably
Yes.
>her moment of triumph is killing the main guy by becoming immune to his powers
Did you watch the same show? Because she found out she was immune with still a third of the series left, and it took tracking him down, tricking him multiple times, and fighting Luke Cage to actually get to him.
>she's the cliched rape victim archetype
You can argue that she's not interesting, but her character is not the traditional rape victim. It's closer to the stock noir protagonist than anything.
>>78113720
Alright, tell me why Jessica Jones is a good/interesting character.
Because I just see a cliche with plot armor who punches things.
>>78113857
>Alright, tell me why Jessica Jones is a good/interesting character.
She's a fuck up and awful cunt. Which makes her lovable. They don't give her a pass and generally makes her one big walking flaw.
To the point where it's relatable.
>>78113857
>Because I just see a cliche with plot armor who punches things
Eh, she really isn't though. She got her shit wrecked most of the film. Not only that, but you typically don't see this level of fuck up in a female character. She's a depressing cunt slut who fucks out of control to cover up how awful she is.
It's a new spin to the typical female role. I'm not saying it deserves a fucking oscar or anything, but it is interesting to see.
Making female characters Mary Sues actualy sets female characters back; male characters are not written as male, because their gender is the default choice.
In most cases a female character is (often added) to a story as "the female character"/"the woman" etc, not as a solid character who exists in their own right.
>>78113914
They totally give her a pass. She beats the bad guy because of an immunity she didn't have to work for.
There's this notion in a lot of wanna be writers mind that flawed = good character. While flaws help, it also helps to create a memorable character.
Jessica Jones is not memorable. She's a cliche. She's about one step away from starring in a Resident Evil Movie.
>>78113914
>>78113993
I've heard this "female character is good because she's an awful person" argument made before.
>>78114014
>>78113386
>>78113100
This is the reason
>>78114016
She has the immunity because she suffered for it. She wouldn't be immune if not for the trauma of being his victim. While I agree that the overall idea of making her immune to Killgrave is a weak narrative choice, it is tied to her overall character development and empowers her as a protagonist in a way that I'm sure many found quite satisfying.
>>78114133
And many did not.
Let me remind you how this discussion got started. Some anon, might have been you, said /co/ was sexist because they didn't like Jessica Jones
That's a bullshit argument. I think this discussion has proven there are many valid reasons to not be a fan of Jessica Jones, and that it doesn't make you a sexist.
Mid 80's Wasp as Chairwoman of the Avengers
( a lot of men resent women for the pure fact that men can't control when they get horny,they subconsciously blame women, as a bisexual i resent everyone)
>>78109642
Sex/gender is irrelevant on what makes a character good.
>>78114016
>She beats the bad guy because of an immunity she didn't have to work for.
But she did have to work for that immunity. So much so that she killed someone and was raped, things that morally conflicted with her.
>There's this notion in a lot of wanna be writers mind that flawed = good character. While flaws help, it also helps to create a memorable character.
Which is reasonable, i wasn't saying she was good character because she was flaw, it just made her easier to bear with. It gave you some time of interest in seeing how this flaw is nurtured through the series. I liked how it played out.
>Jessica Jones is not memorable. She's a cliche.
Neither are any other heroes other than Ironman, Batman, Spiderman and Supes. You don't remember a distinct personality in Daredevil, Blade, Thor, or Black Window, because they're usually cliche'd, however the world around them is interesting and their abilities usually pick up the slack.
This was another case of that. Though her abilities weren't a highlight, it was the main antagonist's abilities that played in her general progression and kept it interesting.
>She's a cliche. She's about one step away from starring in a Resident Evil Movie.
She's a good cliche. A cliche of that old noir characters. A person with a horrible past pushing loved ones away with drinking problems. The only spin is she's a female, which makes it a new take, but not really. She was interesting.
>>78114097
That applies to males too.
In real life people are naturally selfish, this reflects reality making a character more interesting.
>>78109642
She's a very complex character. She's introduced as uptight and a know-it-all but as the series goes on it humanizes her and shows how she got the way she is. She's from the bottom class of her society and was raised as a servant, which explains the neurotic cleanliness and grace. Despite her low status, she falls in love with someone from the highest class who loves her back and makes her feel special. The love approaches on being in love with the status more than the person, however, she eventually is able to give up the status advantage when her lover rebels against their society. Her lover dies and she is stuck taking care of her lover's child from another relationship, of which she is bitter about. Eventually she sees her past love in the child and cares for him, although she still resents the other parent.
>>78114173
Actually, this discussion was about whether Jessica's characterization was good or interesting, an aesthetic and literary judgement which is impacted only minimally by the show's reputation on /co/. Plus only a hyperdefensive sperg would think "you don't like this show because you're a sexist" is a conversation worth having.
>>78114235
>In real life people are naturally selfish, this reflects reality making a character more interesting.
Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you, the most interesting character in the world
>>78109642
Ive never encountered anything like this with anons. I apreciate women the same way i apreciate men. Fuck off this board, you asshat. I apreciate all my waifus beauty and self.
>mfw i took the bait
>>78114274
Way to oversimplify a point. Congratz
I bet you feel really smart right now, posting an extreme caricature of a trait.
>>78114264
Don't "Actually" me, faggot. Don't pull out your lit 101 thesaurus either.
>>78111433
>>78112117
The discussion began with these two posts, with one Anon saying /co/ hated flawed female characters like Jessica Jones.
Watashi > all
>>78109642
>Here's what I expect every post in this thread to be, so I'll get it out of the way:
>- women are only good for sex
>- women are just for breeding
>- all women are evil
>- jews niggers mudslimes kek c~u ck
>- I only like three year old girls I can fantasize about raping
No one here ever say this you stupid, fucking search on the archive stop projecting yourself
back to fucking >>>/b/
Flawed characters can be just as boring as wholesome christian characters.
It's all about execution. Aaron Burr in Lin Manuel's "Hamilton the Musical" is an amazing flawed character. He is a man who openly admits he is after power, yet due to his circumstances we grow to symphasize with him.
Jessica Jones is just another noir cliche.
>>78114347
>No one here ever say this you stupid, fucking search on the archive stop projecting yourself
There was an old thread talking about the show and it devolved into pol posting images about her fuckign a black guy, but you're right with that other shit. For the most part not on /co/ as much as other boards.
>>78114368
Or maybe it's perspective. Maybe you don't like that sort of noir character as much as you like Aaron Burr characters.
At the end of the day these things are ultimately subjective.
Reminder:
Female anime characters are always written better than their western counterparts.
What do you think about that?
Misery from Ruby Gloom
While I love her design, what makes me like her is how relatable I find her. She gets her shit kicked a lot but just keeps on going with her life, sometimes it hardly phases her.
I also love how hammy her VA gets in scenes, it just adds to this character.
They could have gone with her original ugly looking design and I feel I would still be able to relate to her.
>>78114441
That is some weak bait you're using, what kind of rod you got? 5R-600 series or what?
>>78114441
Sometimes they're just dumb waifus.
I'm really hoping my girl Yuzu Hiragi delivers but right now she's stagnating. Girl needs more SUFFERING so she can be the power hungry psychopath she was always meant to be
>>78114441
You want to know what I think?
I'll tell you what I think.
I THINKyour statement is quite accurate and I have to agree. Well said person with weird username.
>>78114441
>What do you think about that?
I don't think about it, because it's not even worthy of consideration. There's a few good anime women, but they're in a pot full of bad ones.
Talking about cliches there's only like a handful of good anime females who don't act like big tittied dumbasses strictly for the reader to think they're cute or some tsundere bitch strictly for the reader to fall in love with.
>>78114498
>>78114500
>>78114534
Stop taking his shitty bait.
>>78114498
I think you might want to move onto a more complex show if you want something like that. Gone are the days were Yu-Gi-Oh used to be about setting robbers on fire.
There are also a lot of dumb waifus, but at least you can tell they are dumb waifus. They don't try to be anything other than that. That's the beauty of Japan, baby.
>>78114534
You are quite obviously not an anime savant. However, I will say that the Western comics can't even come close to the beautiful women Japan produces. The PC culture of the west is literally destroying comics and besides most of the women in super hero comics were big tittied dumbassess for the reader to masturbate too. Sometimes they were children so Hal Jordan can get some underaged alien poon. Now they all must have "realistic" bodies and be lesbians or strong independent women who don't need no man.
>>78114441
Very true, more so now that we have the cliched 'strong female character'
>>78114635
>>78113914
>She's a fuck up and awful cunt. Which makes her lovable.
I don't think I understand.
>>78114612
>You are quite obviously not an anime savant.
Which makes my opinion all the more respectable.
>However, I will say that the Western comics can't even come close to the beautiful women Japan produces.
We were talking about women characterization not how attractive they were.
> The PC culture of the west is literally destroying comics and besides most of the women in super hero comics were big tittied dumbassess for the reader to masturbate too.
Only the neckbeards in Japan give a fuck about the comics over there, while the entire culture of the US has have comics ingrained in it. So it was only sooner or later we'd have a group out of the majority crying about something.
Still doesn't matter none of this is relevant to the conversation. I enjoy all forms of entertainment including anime, but anime fans are some of the most deluded pieces of shit when it comes to other medias, so there's no point in debating one who's obviously just another example of this
>>78114635
>>78114668
You guys are kidding right?
If you're gonna talk about cliches Anime is full of them. Just cliches you have no problem with, but almost all of them require little talent to make.
Also, no one said Jessica Jones is the pinnacle of female characterization on top of that she isn't even the "strong female" cliche personality wise.
>>78114694
>Only the neckbeards in Japan give a fuck about the comics over there, while the entire culture of the US has have comics ingrained in it.
>One piece alone sells more than all the cape comics combined
Ok.
>>78114694
>Only the neckbeards in Japan give a fuck about the comics over there, while the entire culture of the US has have comics ingrained in it
>>78114721
No, it means i'm approaching from non-bias angles. I assumed savant meant autist. Someone who blindly throws around claims because he's infatuated with one particular medium?
I've seen both mediums in light and respect both enough to know, they both have their issues.
>>78114742
Japan puts out three times as much anime and manga then the west does every year. For every cliche riddled harem anime there's something that's actually well made.
It's not Canada
>>78114694
>Only the neckbeards in Japan give a fuck about the comics over there, while the entire culture of the US has have comics ingrained in it
DUDE DID U SEE THE AVENGERS 2? I LIKED THE PART WHERE THE ROBOTS EXPLODED LMAO
>>78114694
A higher percentage of women in Japan read comics then there will ever be in the west.
Turns out they don't want to be pandered to by 2dimensional STRONG CHARACTERS who don't need no man.
>>78114778
>Japan puts out three times as much anime and manga then the west does every year. For every cliche riddled harem anime there's something that's actually well made.
But out of all those, there's only a handful. And even sometimes those are filled with cliches. Stop dick riding Japan so much.
I'm not saying those are bad, i'm saying it no better than western shit. Stop pretending like they can't do shit wrong.
>>78114902
>But out of all those, there's only a handful. And even sometimes those are filled with cliches. Stop dick riding Japan so much.
>I'm not saying those are bad, i'm saying it no better than western shit. Stop pretending like they can't do shit wrong.
I'm not, i'm saying Japan get's better written female characters on sheer quantity alone.
It doesn't help that a big part of the western comic industry is rehashing the same characters for 50+ years
>>78114694
I had to step away from the computer, but man, your post got blasted. I don't even know if it's worth it to respond. I was also referring to the characterization. Last time I checked, you could use the world beautiful to mean more than just how good they looked.
>>78114742
>Comic books aren't cliche.
kek
>>78114925
Yeah, comics suck. Not even joking, they're always resetting so there's never any real stakes and the west is so addicted to reusing established IPs that they'll never make anything new
Shounen Jump might be riddled with editors with dumb ideas, but at least new stuff is made through it.
>Anime doing female characters good
Uh, no. Fuck the esjoos over here, damn them to hell, but Anime is fucking horrible with female characters.
There's only so many female characters, in anime, I recall actually be interested in besides sexual appeal and "Muh waifu".
>>78114925
>I'm not, i'm saying Japan get's better written female characters on sheer quantity alone.
What are we comparing this to? Cartoons, comics, films, or tv shows?
>It doesn't help that a big part of the western comic industry is rehashing the same characters for 50+ years
So has fucking anime. How are you not seeing they're both awful and pitiful when it comes to women?
>>78113857
>plot armor
If there's one thing she DOESN'T have, it's this. She CONSTANTLY suffers and fails.
I think she's interesting because she's such a fuck-up. It's someone who's constantly challenged to do the right thing, and has to deal with the fact that the right thing is not only hard, but it often backfires horribly. It's a struggle for her to give a shit, and despite all the "Just give up, you suck at this" piled on her, she still tries.
Why can't more female characters be entertaining as Root?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbbjYyXGxJ0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piLIleQX3jk
>>78114974
dat QUALITY
Female characters who are GREAT fucking characters:
Homura Akemi from Madoka Magica. There's a reason everyone still debates her character, "Homura Did Everything Wrong vs. Nothing Wrong," everyone is torn about her character, even today: she is a Walter White-tier character. She is absolutely fascinating, and people are torn about her character for a reason. Reasonable people can disagree/agree with her because she is so fucking complex; despicable and heroic, relatable and terrible at the same time.
Helga Pataki from Hey Arnold. Again, she made such a strong fucking impression for a reason.
Pearl from Steven Universe. No, I'm not always sure that I like her. A lot of the time, I fucking hate her guts, so very much; she's fucking awful. This is because she feels like a REAL FUCKING PERSON and is one of the very few /co/ related characters who does. We dislike her, in part, because she reminds us of US. Thirsty, autistic, salty, neurotic as all hell. She is fucking brilliant, in terms of writing, whatever you think of her. Peridot is getting here, too.
Azula and Toph from Avatar. Great characters, gender has little bearing, popular for a reason, fucked up.
Very Tentative: Jessica Jones. One of the first great American anti-heroes, as countless reviews have attested. Not presented as a good person, she is petty and angry, awful; but human. Same as Kilgrave! SJWs aside: she and Kilgrave are a great match: unable to love others or interact with other humans in a normal way, in part due to their "gifts."
Fucking choke on that, feminism, SJWs, etc. That's why people ship them, they are cut from the same cloth. It's true, fuckers; it's true.
>>78114974
>>Comic books aren't cliche.
I didn't say comics weren't cliche'd. I'm saying you comparing Asian sand to American sand and saying Asian sand is better because you favor their beaches more. It's fucking sand.
Both of these shows have cliches no doubt, to say one is better than the other is stupid. That's even with Japan dropping more manga/anime than the US.
As a guy, I think it's just generally hard to try to completely separate looks from the equation only because so many female characters are tailored for that audience.
But there are many female characters that come from just really well-written books that people like. Many female characters from Morrison's books aren't conventionally attractive and can be interesting and even the normal looking ones like Zatanna are relatively engaging.
I genuinely like Vision's wife as a character right now and she's not the least bit attractive to me as well.
>>78114016
>She beats the bad guy because of an immunity she didn't have to work for.
Even with the immunity, she had to trick Kilgrave into thinking she wasn't immune for her to get close, and that required keeping a poker face while he threatened to do unspeakable things to her only real friend.
>>78115040
Homura a poop and did everything wrong.
Sayaka a best.
>>78114977
I can see why that would be your point of view when you have only seen up to 10 series.
>>78114694
>Only the neckbeards in Japan give a fuck about the comics over there
Oh I didn't know we were on the 80's
>>78115038
>I know! Not a single transplantkin POC fat self-diagnosed autist has ever been in an anime! What a racist country!
Stop projecting. You know i'm not from tumblr and I assume you're not, so let's talk like adults.
The women in anime are no better than the women in comics. You can just get behind them, because the SJWs whine about them a lot so they're safe.
>>78109642
Personally, the Crystal Gems from SU are some of my favorite female characters of recent memory, because they all have a storied past and real character arcs that aren't afraid to show their flaws
Specifically Amethyst and Pearl
>>78114237
Honestly, she's probably the best female character in a long time.
>>78115040
You seriously need to kill yourself if you're comparing Jessica Jones to Homura Akemi
I'll even give you Pearl, but Jessica Jones is a fucking joke of a character with a joke of a resolution.
>>78109642
>>Are there any female characters you like not for their appearance, but for the quality of writing applied to their characters and plot lines?
I'm too lazy to answer any other one.
But pic related for this question.
> /co/ hates pretty much all female characters in anything ever.
This is false, just fyi
>>78115039
Anime has the market on QUALITY.
>>78115047
Nah, it's pretty easy to say which one is better. I'm saying Asian sand is better because the minerals it has makes it so I don't die as quickly when I go to their beaches as opposed to American beaches.
>>78115060
>I can see why that would be your point of view when you have only seen up to 10 series.
Nah. I've seen more than 10. This is excluding the ones on TV as well.
>>78114237
>that
>complex
God, I hate this board sometimes
I usually really like female characters in the hands of good writers actually.
Some examples of female characters I like due to their competence and/or get-shit-done style: Esmaralda, Numbuh 5, Garnet.
Some I like due to their empathy or sweetness: Muriel Bagge, Belle, Leafie, many mom characters in less comedic works
Some I like due to being charmingly silly, eccentric, or adventurous, and maybe wouldn't work as well for males: Katilda (Catscratch), Lilo,Jade, Roxy
>>78115040
I was with you until you compared the greatest female character of the last decade to Jessica Jones
>>78114694
>Only the neckbeards in Japan give a fuck about the comics over there, while the entire culture of the US has have comics ingrained in it.
>Only the neckbeards in Japan give a fuck about the comics over there, while the entire culture of the US has have comics ingrained in it.
>number 1 comic garnishes less than 300,000 after a month
>the number 11th manga does better than that with no valiants, no renumbering, and on its first fucking volume.
Real great integration.
>>78113100
>I'm female and I'll tell you why I don't like most female characters. They're not written as people, they're written as women.
>>78113386
>>78113432
^these
pic related
>>78114173
There are valid reasons to not like JJ, but the protagonist being a flawed person is not one of them. /co/ specifically attacks her for her screwups, which is not a legitimate criticism of the show.
>>78115040
Jessica isn't one of the first great American Anti-heroes. She's standard Noir. Goddamn it I hate millenials.
>>78114454
In my case, I find Carrie is a standout example in my heart. In fact, I used to dislike her a lot for many reason, or at least feel neutral to her because she is the OPPOSITE of the character I used to like (characters that are outwardly nice and friendly). However, as the series goes on, I find her memorable such as she is supportive of Gumball and cares for him in many occasions (although the series does not really like continuities and mostly one shots). Also, she changes from one of my least favorite to favorite and even replacing Penny (the nice girl type I used to like) during the process.
That is some big change in me.
>>78115124
>I'm saying Asian sand is better because the minerals it has makes it so I don't die as quickly when I go to their beaches as opposed to American beaches.
It was a metaphor for saying both things are very similar in terms of content.
I personally enjoy western entertainment more, but to each his own.
At some point though, it's liek why are you even here? There's boards to discuss your topic.
>>78115040
>Very Tentative: Jessica Jones. One of the first great American anti-heroes, as countless reviews have attested
>one of the first great American anti-heroes
Jesus fucking christ.
>>78115158
>That picture.
What the fuck? This guy is fucking stupid as hell. The fans were stupid too!
>>78115158
But Jessica Jones wasn't written as a female. She just had issues some women experience.
>>78115058
Homura and Sayaka BOTH a poop, but a best together, preferably having hot sex. Together.
Two best characters in Madoka Magica, BY FAR, seriously.
>says the diehard HomuSaya shipper.
>>78113857
She's honestly a real person who fucks up the way real people do, and is NOT presented as being awesome or a role model. That's why Jessica Jones was so well received with the critics. Like all of us, she is supremely fucked up and the show doesn't pretend she isn't.
>>78115158
I remember when Joss Whedon said that writing a strong female character is like writing a strong male character, but without a penis. Twitter and Tumblr naturally exploded.
>>78115124
>Anime has the market on QUALITY.
Nah, I think that Canadian-made flash shit beats them out on that.
>>78115207
The guy didn't fucking mention Jessica Jones
>>78114694
You can like a media form yet still be aware of and acknowledge its flaws.
Truly honest fans can list the flaws in the thing they love.
>>78115005
>So has fucking anime. How are you not seeing they're both awful and pitiful when it comes to women
Very few things actually get multiple seasons compared to western tv, some achetypes may get reused a lot but they're not actually the exact same characters
>>78115188
Because /a/ wasn't doing it for tonight so I decided to check out the other boards. I just felt like defending Japan and their superior female characters. I get your metaphor, but I can't see myself liking any western female. They either fall into one of two categories. The "princess who needs to be saved" or the "independent black woman who don't need no man". Anime characters have much more than that. There are more bonds in Japanese media than there are in Western media.
>>78115220
I don't ship them. I don't ship Sayaka with anyone other than me, of course.
God I hate tumblr. But not for their ideology, no fuck that. I hate them because we'll never be able to discuss women or minorities without some faggot getting triggered and throwing around "tumblr" without telling you why you're wrong besides that.
>>78115220
>Like all of us, she is supremely fucked up and the show doesn't pretend she isn't.
Oh please. She's a dime a dozen rape victim, empowered by being a comic book character.
>She's just like us
What horse shit. No, most people aren't edgy rape victims who beat people up.
>>78115224
I mean i'll be the minority opinion but I think he's wrong on that one. There is a clear gender dynamic that exists, whether or not people want to acknowledge it. It's not like everyone in the world genuinely thinks women and men are the same type of people, even people who aren't sexist in the slightest.
Not only physiological but massive social differences created by various stigma and social structure just make guys and girls way different. Same with everyone who always goes on about how if you drop even one line about being gay or black, then you're a shitty gay or black character. It's a part of their character as much as anything else.
Being a guy is also a part of male characters and it's brought up more times than people think.
Her not being mentioned yet is unconscionable.
>>78115224
Whedon might have a leg to stand on if he didn't also try to cater to his "90 pound girl takes her shoes off and flips around beating up 400 pound monsters" fetish
>>78115287
That's not really a Tumblr thing. That's really the internet in general in the wake of GG. Everyone was driven farther right or left and anything in the middle gets accused by both sides of belonging to the other.
>>78115315
That movie is 6 years older than me and I'm not even the major demographic of this board. No one would mention her.
>>78115336It's a good fetish tho
>>78115286
Give in, anon. A small, dirty, honest part of you realizes that Sayaka and Homura are two of the best written anime characters in years and would be even better...hot and sweaty and self-loathing and desperate and so very turned on with you...together.
Give in.
>>78115340
Golden Mean fallacy faggot. "The Middle" is whatever the "moderate" person says it is.
The "middle" doesn't exist, but we pretend it does because we never think of ourselves as radicals, oh no no no, we're all firm in the middle, adrift from those other crazies
Go talk to a random stranger, and you'll find that your precious "middle ground" is worlds apart from his
>>78115389
I don't think so, man.
>>78115289
She's as dime-a-dozen as any other comic book hero.
You've got the wrong archetype, though. She has way more in common with the cynical PI archetype than the rape victim one.
>No, most people aren't edgy rape victims who beat people up.
Most people aren't action heroes. Anon meant that she's like us in that she's a very fallible person who makes both poor judgement calls and selfish decisions. Of the more popular comic book characters, she's most similar to classic Peter Parker.
>>78115364
It was until Avengers where he was so busy fapping he didn't even bother to hide the cuts between Scarjo and her burly dude of a stunt double.
Also it's way hotter when a woman can withstand getting her nose broken. That kind of lady is down for anything
>>78115286
>I just felt like defending Japan and their superior female characters.
Yea you're trolling.
>but I can't see myself liking any western female.
Not only this, but you're failing to see the other media outlet's potential. So you're not goign to accept any 'truth' that comes from it.
>They either fall into one of two categories. The "princess who needs to be saved" or the "independent black woman who don't need no man".
On average female character type:
>Cutesy girl with irrational love for the main protagonist and see on screen doing cutesy shit
>Shy cute girl with strong infatuation with main character to the point where the main character is the center of her universe and nothing more
>Useless female character the reader is suppose to feel for because the main character has a deep un-professed love for her. Her only point in being in the story is for the MC to confess his love to her and the reader can self insert himself in the mc's shoes.
Yea no, nice try. Anime characters are horrible. This is the part where you cherry pick anime of the season and say "Look how different this is" when that anime is the minority.
>>78114237
>>78115110
God she is not that much of great character, giving something lots of shades doesn't make it complex it's just a cheap method for it to look like it's better written, however I can't think of any other better female on current cartoons shows.
>>78115420
I never said the middle was right. I said that anything not far right or left enough gets accused of being the other extreme.
Also don't be such an ass.
>>78115455
>This is the part where you cherry pick anime of the season and say "Look how different this is" when that anime is the minority.
Not even him but you're trying to fuck his argument up when even a small minority of good anime per year is already more thank the yearly cartoon bulk, even counting the bad cartoons.
>>78115420
But you're wrong. There essentially is a middle ground when it comes to clear cut situations like this. The middle ground is acknowledging errors in both philosophies. This doesn't make you some enlightened wise sage, but it does give you somewhat clear judgement and willingness to hear both sides.
>>78115461
What makes her a well-written character is that her multiple shades all organically stem from the life she's lived, and they play off each other in believable ways.
>>78109642
>Are there any female characters you like not for their appearance, but for the quality of writing applied to their characters and plot lines?
See, this is a trick question because I don't have to LIKE characters in order to appreciate the thought put into them.
I don't like Monet St. Croix's attitude but from Lobdell to PAD, everyone made a perfectly reasonable explanation to her behavior. Lorna is self-destructive and quite possible mentally ill. Layla Miller is a secretive sociopath. Siryn is an immature, selfish person who'd ignore her own father's death rather than face her problems.
For example, in the same book I couldn't appreciate Rahne to the same extent. Most of the time, she was an all-around great person and the writer even managed to avoid making her smug and holier-than-thou but her conflicts just weren't as interesting. I liked Rahne but I wasn't very interested in her.
I didn't "like" any of the other characters but that doesn't mean they don't have complex personalities who were developed over the course of a single run more than most characters were and will evolve over decades. I appreciate that and I would prefer these characters under this writer over most "likable" or "relatable" characters under someone else.
>>78115503
But we weren't just talking about anime, we're talking about female characters in general, his argument emphasizes anime though.
>>78115461
You know, Pearl isn't even my favorite in this show by a long shot, but she is pretty great. Her writers are brave as hell.
Also, why no mention of Marceline from AT? Lydia from BG? I feel like waifufags are seriously falling down here.
I even think Pacifica from GF ended up pretty great; sue me.
>>78115552
Fair enough.
>>78115455
No, no. I do read western comics. However, I don't read them all that often anymore. I think the last western comic I read was Seconds. It was actually pretty good, if you ask me. It's just that I can't get behind Marvel/DC anymore. All my favorite characters are getting changed around for the worst. Nick Fury didn't have to become black. He just didn't have to become black.
>Your horrible average anime character description
You basically only picked harems and you didn't even list all the qualities of a harem girl. Come on, man. That's pathetic. Magical Girl Sayaka-chan is none of those things.
Not to mention it's not even the minority. You just decided to pick harem and decided that was the be all end of anime. Did you know that some anime havefemale protagonists? Amazing, right?
>>78115563
>Her writers are brave as hell
Dear lord /co/ really is tumblr
>>78115545
It's funny, but you don't have to like characters at all to agree they're well written.
Emma Frost is incredibly politically incorrect/anti-SJW and a total bitch, but she's often very well written, depending on the writer.
>>78115040
>Rebellion left me in a love/hate bipolar mess
FUCK YOU HOMURA,I love you and hope you're happy...
>>78115563
>Her writers are brave as hell.
What did he mean by this?
>>78115651
Yep. She was very likable, almost cute, under Lobdell in Generation X but at the same time she was a bit bland, not to mention out of character.
>>78115455
>On average female character type:
So which of those is Casca?
>>78115665
Nothing of value. Just the typical SU circlejerk where it's somehow brave to have a neurotic supporting character.
I swear between that and "Jessica Jones is one of the first great American Anti-Heroes" my brain is about to hemmorage. I'm not even trying to be snobby but sweet fucking jesus
What about Buddy? Someone taught to be a violent remorseless sociopath killer who tears apart society for the sake of power and security and only realizes her mistake when its too late; yet in a bittersweet way attempts to make amends at the end.
>>78115665
>>78115640
It's BECAUSE the closest thing to an out lesbian on the show is also an awful, awful person in many ways, who nearly kills the protagonist. That is why they're brave.
Could you see tumblr freaking out abou that? The "lesbian" character almost imploding Steven in the vacuum of space for petty, bullshit reasons?
Did they do it anyway, because in spite of whatever her sexual orientation is, Pearl has a lot of fucking problems, and is shallow and selfish and cruel a lot?
Yes.
>>78115744
I've seen reviewers saying JJ as a character is as good as Tony Soprano.
Let's see how your brain processes that.
Do you all think Jenny(XJ9) was a well written character?
>>78115771
Huh, suddenly the blatant lesbians Ruby and Sapphire don't exist?
>>78115771
This happens daily in Japan.
>>78111396
I really love Korras concept, i think she's probably my favorite female character out of the avatar franchise, and desu i like all the female character in avatar to some degree.
My main problem with Korra though is that i don't think she is that well written because a lot of the time the concept of Korra and the Korra we see on screen don't mesh very well. Also as others have said it feel like she gets a lot of leeway for things she shouldn't have.
I also think the writing has a problem because she feels very inconsistently portrayed to me. She is supposed to be a great fighter, a smart and caring person etc. but at some points in the story she has some of those traits, and at other she doesn't.
For instance she is supposed to be compassionate throughout the series, and to some extent we see this, but then at the end they imply that she wasn't and had to learn compassion. It just feels weird.
>>78115615
Those are just harems though. Pic related is a portion of the animes i've watched. Out of all these I can only think of a few where the females were useful and not just some end all goal for the main protagonist to suckle on. This isn't bad, but rarely does anime ever leave these character dimensions. I acknowledged it had been done before, but not as much as it could be. Which is where I return to something I said earlier, both have shitty cliches. You just prefer a certain type of shitty cliche.
Some asshole from /lit/ might tell you he prefers a certain type of character over the other, but this is his preference. To say that this form of shitty writing is vastly superior to this form of shitty writing is asinine.
>>78115797
Define well written. I mean, she's a fun, humorous character which is great for genre and median she's in soooo. . . yeah, I guess.
>>78115721
>On average female character type:
On average is the keyword here kiddo.
>>78115797
No.
>>78115828
Those aren't*
Also here's the pic.
>>78115801
I (kind of) hate to say this, but Japan is way better than the West when it comes to awesome, interesting, well done female characters. No goddamn idea why this is true.
Steven Universe is the best/closest they've gotten. Sadly.
>>78115751
I think that establish fairly well, excepts the part Brad taught her how to kill people. I think the story could gone a lot more tragic/in depth if Buddy learns how to protect herself by forcing her to kill mutant Brad or random encounters.
Best female character from any media?
Best female character from any media.
>>78115806
Korra as a character is actually pretty well-written. It's the plot that's absolutely terrible, because it just bends over backwards for her instead of actually letting her be challenged.
>>78115100
>Specifically Amethyst and Pearl
Of course. Cause Garnet's the weakest character among them. She's just one "being a leader is tough/emotionally draining" away from being a mary sue honestly.
But Amethyst and Pearl raise some really cool concepts.
Especially Pearl with the nature of what love is.
>>78115850
this, a fucking character doenst need a Fitzgerald tier development to be good
>>78115896
Because Japan has more female characters, period. It's inevitable that they get more good ones with the sheer quantity they put out.
>Pearl and Jessica Jones are great characters because they're stupid fuck ups
Nah. You get no points for being stupid. It doesn't make you complex, or human, it makes you a stupid cunt
And most people aren't stupid cunts. Selfish, sure. But stupid? Nah. At least not "let's try to reason with the mind controlling guy" stupid.
I really hated the "Flawed character" defense, it's dishonest. I'm flawed, you're flawed, but we're not all self destructive mongoloids.
>>78115953
>I really hated the "Flawed character" defense, it's dishonest. I'm flawed, you're flawed, but we're not all self destructive mongoloids.
Now who's being naive?
>>78115931
Korra is not a well written character, go fuck yourself.
She's all over the goddamn place. Her dialogue is terrible, her actions contradict each other, and she resolves the plot via asspull magic.
She never learns, she never grows, oh but she'll SAY she's grown, Tenzin will give a SPEECH on how she's grown, but Korra starts the series as a bumbling retard who lucks her way out of fights and she ends it as a bumbling retard who lucks her way of fights.
And if you're going to try to use her conversation with Kuvira as proof of her growth there is no hope for you. That was the cherry on the horrible character writing sundae.
>>78115953
Make your own troll thread. OP got here first.
>>78115931
I still think she is very inconsistent which is a problem with her writing and not the plot. Even though a lot of it is in book 2. At times it feels like she is just doing things because the plot needs to advance and, to me atleast, that isn't a well written character.
>>78115953
>you will never marry her
Scientist women + military women. She's like a combination of all my fetishes.
>>78115953
Ignore the people sayign she's a great character. She's a great character in contrast to what we could have gotten for a female character. As a whole she isn't bad.
>>78115913
The fact that she killsRandoin a fit of anger seems tragic enough for me. Plus having mutant Brad around until the end is all kinds of dark IMO. It's most certainly not Brad anymore and yet it's all Buddy has left at the end besidesmemories of Rando and her baby.
Mutant Brad at that point is essentially a dog, he cares for her, protects her and probably offers comfort with his presence, but it's not her dad anymore.
![robot_love_is_forever[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Zt0eQxb.jpg "robot_love_is_forever[1].jpg")
>>78115665
Honestly, even without her lesbian undertones, Pearl is a great example of the paradox of love machines.
Would you call it love if a robot is programmed to function by serving a master?
To the robot, it's getting a positive feedback loop when it makes the master happy. That's basically the same thing as love, is it not?
Single best character development moment in Gravity Falls. Prove me wrong.
>>78110354
>have superpowers
>become a hooker instead
No, they're wrong; she's not a meme, she's pure.Pure shit.
>>78115996
>and she resolves the plot via asspull magic.
>She never learns, she never grows
>Korra starts the series as a bumbling retard who lucks her way out of fights and she ends it as a bumbling retard who lucks her way of fights.
Did you not read my post at all?
One more Buddy pic to represent /vg/ because her aesthetic is all kinds of gorgeous.
?
Anons, what do you think of her? Just a random question from random thread. What do anons think of her development?
>female characters
>good
KEK
Homura is probably one of the best characters in the past decade period.
>>78116038
That is pretty sad as well. I also think Buddy's development might have gone into a better way if she learns the tragic story of Lisa unfold, like Buzzo tells Buddy what happened, and he tells why Buddy is such a "redemption" to Brad, Buzzo, and even Rando in so many ways.
>>78116213
we already know, now fucking go to /a/
>>78116132
Who is she?
>>78116282
Bill Murray in Groundhog's day.
>>78116047
1. I don't want to prove you wrong.
2. Even if I WANTED to prove you wrong, I can't. You speak the truth.
>>78116282
Penny from the amazing world of gumball.
>>78116132
What development? they rather make a new chraracter if they wanted to include their shapeshifter fetish into the show.
>best female character
riiiight here
>>78116371
I think the teams want to make Penny less "boring". But, come on, even Carrie has a better development than Penny in some way.
Gosalyn from DWD was pretty cool.
>>78116409
Same with margaret on RS they shouldn't create a character just for the sake of being an object of desire for the protagonist.
Name an example of a complex female character.
And I mean actually complex.
>>78116529
pearl
>>78116550
>And I mean actually complex.
Fuck off, SUfags.
>>78116047
Pacifica is accidentally a great female character with a great character arc.
>>78116529
All over this thread m8.
>>78116499
And that is the ironic part too. The team really wants to ship Gumball and Penny together, but the problem is that many fans just like Penny's design, not her character. Heck, in term of character in depth, Carrie also has an origin episode that is surprisingly deep, possibly the deepest in the series by far if establish correctly.
