>"Barry is the kind of man that I would've hoped to become if my parents hadn't been murdered."
What did Batman mean by this?
>>78090993
Barry is an upstanding citizen. A normal, balanced, good guy.
Batman is a grimdark sook.
See, I liked Flashpoint, and loved Daddy Batman and Mommy Joker... But I still don't buy into that single change being enough to alter all it did. I get the ripples effect, but it touched shit it shouldn't have. Half the changes just made no sense at all.
Barry only sees the good in people. Even in his rogues gallery. He thinks that they're all just ordinary messed up folks who do what they do because of circumstance. He's an optimistic positive kind of guy.
Bruce can only see the evil lurking in the shadows. He is highly suspicious and doubts in others. His rogues are all twisted maniacs with little to no hope for redemption. He's a cynical pessimist kind of guy.
Bruce wishes he could see the good in others like Barry. All he knows is suspicion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJq2PAI-Fxc
>>78093117
That first line is not true. He always considered his Rogues scumbags. He never even tried to reform them or talk to them about why they're doing what they're doing.
Endemic of the Silver/Bronze age writing style? Sure. But Barry never sought out or saw the good in his villains.
>>78093117
What? I never got that vibe from Batman. He believes Joker of all people is capable of getting better.
>>78090993
If he had a normal childhood he would become a CSI fanboy
>>78090993
Batman wants to go fast, but he can't because his parents are dead.
>>78095507
But so are Barry's, and Sonic's. Clearly one does not need living parents in order to achieve gotta go fast.
>>78093093
The thing is that it doesnt make sence, it's a decent elseworld, but a terrible alternative timeline since they are THE SAME CHARACTERS, the same people. Johns SAME TIMELINE misses the point of the characters, The nail and House of M were superior to this. I mean Martha wayne being the Joker?
>>78095489
This.
>>78095520
Barry has a living dad
>>78093117
>His rogues are all twisted maniacs with little to no hope for redemption
Bruce paid a shitload to get Harvey help in DKR, Selena flips back and forth between criminal and hero, Penguin's just a criminal, Riddler has helped Batman before, Ra's thinks he's doing it to save the world, Croc's some times just a victim of circumstance.
I'd put Bruce down as hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst.
>>78095534
>>78095489
See this kind of annoys me because it gives hope that Joker could be rehabilitated. Which in universe, yeah I think he could be. But DC would never allow for such a thing, at least not for very long.
>>78095489
Some people, usually people that think batman is a paranoid jerk, had never touched a batman comic in their life.
>>78095559
Hello
>>78094808
>>78095423
He might have considered them scumbags, but when Heat Wave reformed they became friends and he even let him stay at his house once. Barry obviously trusted him.
>>78095575
I'm well aware that that happened. But it literally just happened. I doubt it will last.
>>78095587
We'll always have Europa
>>78095534
Bullshit. Batman snapped his neck after he told that joke.
>>78095576
Puff. That's nothing compared with Bruce letting Bane live in the manor
>>78095629
Grant, you're drunk. Go home.
Could Hitler change? Would people forgive him even if he did?
Can suicide bomber change? Well minus the suicide part, would you let say the Boston bomber keep bombing?
Admittedly this also has to do with the incompetence Gotham's justice system if Joker keeps coming out for any reason and no lucky police officer manages to shoot him as real ones are more than willing to be trigger happy.
Am I analyzing Bats too much?
>>78095639
>for you, Bane
>>78095644
YOURE NOT MY DAD!
>>78093093
I don't see what's wrong with the ripple explanation. It wasn't the cause-and-effect of what Barry did when he went back in time that changed the future, but it was the way he moved backwards in time which created an earthquake-like phenomenon throughout spacetime that changed all sorts of shit at different places and different times. That's pretty much a sci-fi blank check to change whatever you want. You can call it a cop-out, I call it the premise of the story Geoff wanted to write.
>>78093117
I think Batman comes off more like that in ensemble material than his personal stuff, what with keeping kryptonite in his belt and creating contingency plans in case anyone in JL goes rogue, etc.
I'd say it's because he knows how things work in Gotham, but not so much outside of Gotham. Which means, in a sense, that he trusts Joker more than most of JL
>>78095683
Yeah. The whole premise is basic butterfly effect, but with a slightly better explanation.
>>78095647
>Could Hitler change? Would people forgive him even if he did?
Hitler was not worse than truman or churchill
>Can suicide bomber change? Well minus the suicide part, would you let say the Boston bomber keep bombing?
Yes, they can change.
>Admittedly this also has to do with the incompetence Gotham's justice system if Joker keeps coming out for any reason and no lucky police officer manages to shoot him as real ones are more than willing to be trigger happy.
They shoot him all the time. He just continues to comeback. But you are such a pleb you had never read a batman comic, not even Morrison's epic. That start with that.
>Am I analyzing Bats too much?
No you are just an idiot.
>>78095703
> Churchill
explain
>>78095683
Is not. Johns tried to do his own HOUSE OF M and failed. It was an excuse to have toys and DLC for the games, it's not a good excuse, we had a lot of alternative timelines before flashpoint, at the end of the day Johns gave us terrible personalities, characters that never acted as the characters they are suppose to be (Why would Captain Marvel be affected? Why would the joker be a woman?Reality warpers have a excuse, alternative universes have different rules, but this was the same universe.
Someone told Johns: we need more toys, make a story about that.
And that's it.
>>78095639
I wasn't comparing Barry to Bruce, just refuting that guy's claim that Barry despised his Rogues and didn't help them reform.
>>78095693
Or he is a human that prepares for EVERYTHING since being a human he is vulnerable, Superman ASKED HIM to keep the ring. Seriously how many times has the league been controlled? From Starro to max lord. Batman having plans to fight back is not being paranoid. Going to camp with a swiss knife is not the same as hiding a gun in your bathroom in case ninjas attack you while you are taking a shit.
>>78095703
>Hitler was not worse than truman or churchill
Churchill was basically Donald Trump but still not quite as bad as Hitler.
>>78090993
He just wanted an excuse to bring up his dead parents.
>>78095758
Never said he was irrationally paranoid about non-Gotham stuff. But he is paranoid.
>>78095773
>But he is paranoid.
He is not. There's nothing paranoid about him. And you can't show me ONE example of him being paranoid and irrational.
>"Barry is the kind of man that I would've hoped to become if my parents hadn't been murdered."
When the fuck did he say that?
You're full of shit until proven otherwise. I can kinda picture Batman saying something like that, but context is needed.
>>78095773
Paranoia is by definition, irrational.
>>78095528
>I mean Martha wayne being the Joker?
That is not Johns though, you fucking idiot.
And no House of M wasn't better than this. It was also complete shit. In fact, it's even worse because of Scarlet Witch bullshit.
>>78095862
Unh... not really. You're an idiot.
Paranoia CAN BE irrational. But it's a very logical defense mechanism.
>>78095882
>That is not Johns though
>Johnsfags
Johns was in charge of all guidelines
>>78095888
http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/137550?redirectedFrom=paranoia#eid
2. More generally: any unjustified or excessive sense of fear; esp. an unreasonable fear of the actions or motives of others.
>>78095888
>But it's a very logical defense mechanism.
Except Paranoia is a mental disorder, and batman doesnt have it.
Just like me calling you a retard, you are not really a retard, you are just stupid, just like batman is not paranoid, but you call him that way just for planning.
>this entire thread
When will this shitty meme becomes a bannable offense?
Is batman paranoid?
>Suspects, without sufficient basis, that others are exploiting, harming, or deceiving him or her
Kek no. There's more than sufficient basis
>Is preoccupied with unjustified doubts about the loyalty or trustworthiness of friends or associates
Not from paranoia, but from a really shitty life experience growing up, the years he should had been making friends he was learning weird stuff and training. He trust people like Kyle Rayner with his life.
>Is reluctant to confide in others because of unwarranted fear that the information will be used maliciously against him or her
Just like every superhero
>Reads hidden demeaning or threatening meanings into benign remarks or events
Nope
>Persistently bears grudges (i.e., is unforgiving of insults, injuries, or slights)
He can be unforgiven, but only with inmediate family like the robins.
>Perceives attacks on his or her character or reputation that are not apparent to others, and is quick to react angrily or to counterattack
Not at all, the only reputation he cares about is his skill as a martial artist and that is pure egocentrism
>Has recurrent suspicions, without justification, regarding fidelity of spouse or sexual partner
Nope
Anyone thinking Bruce is paranoid is stupid.
>>78095703
>Hitler was not worse than truman or churchill
>>/pol/
>>78095998
>politicians hate capes, but are sneaky
>implying that' isn't unjustified
>fails to refute the point
>is constantly on the lookout for the latest riddler game
>has never forgiven anyone he can't control or manipulate
>sees gotham as an extension of himself and takes offence to every slight aganst it
>always assumes catwoman is lying to him
>>78096074
You are joking right?
