>You fought in the Clone Wars?
>Yes. I was once a Jedi Knight, the same as your father.
>That reminds me. Luke, did I ever tell you that in our prime (which happened to be a mere 20 years ago), the Jedi had Dragon Ball Z powers and could destroy armies single-handedly, run at lightning fast speed, deflect blaster bolts with stunning precision, jump tens of thousands of feet in the air, and hover around for prolonged periods of time? "Crouching Jedi, Hidden Sith" sums up that era well.
>Now that I'm an old man, I can't do any of that anymore. Time is not a good friend.
This show did make me wonder, at what point in their training did Padawans learn the Fist of the North Star?
>>78045683
Vader does some cool shit, he can block lasers with his hands, choke out people from super far off.
I don't get people hating the Jedis having superpowers.
This was your fathers lightsaber he used it to murder a room filled with kids
>>78046146
Don't forget the dreaded Sheev Spin
>>78046146
I think the difference is Vader has some cool tricks, but you don't get the sense that he could take on an army with them. For all his power it still seems like if enough dudes opened fire on him they could take him down.
Clone Wars jedis basically just fly all over the place and destroy armies single handedly though.
>>78046192
>Clone Wars jedis basically just fly all over the place and destroy armies single handedly though.
Which also makes it sorta hard to believe that nearly all of them were exterminated by just having Clone Troopers catch them by surprise.
Gendy shorts weren't even canon before everything else got uncanoned
>>78045683
>(which happened to be a mere 20 years ago)
This is the only actual problem.
>>78046192
We see a decrepit Yoda lift an X wing, we find out Vader is a cyborg cripple. And we see what happens when people open fire on Vader.
I definitely agree there was powercreep and the story wouldn't have suffered if Jedis were never made as powerful as they are, but I think it fits into the lore.
>>78046215
no, this is also a problem v
>>78046212
this was probably the absolute low point of the prequel series. Jedi Masters getting cut down by a laser blast or two.
>>78046212
This is my main problem. I can see it happening to the Jedi on the battlefield, but how could it possibly happen to anyone else?
>>78046114
Before its necessary, after they die.
>>78046192
"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force."
>>78046212
That's the problem I have, we see Jedi all of kinds fight they way throughout enemies, robotic or not and survive. But a few clone troopers can't be detected by the force. You think the force would give them a warning or something?
>>78046192
luke could jump 100s of feet in the air nothing was that crazy about the clone wars, there was some over the top stuff but most made sense.
>>78046271
>insignificant next to the power of the force
>nigga cant even jump 2 feet into the air
vader plz
Funny how practically the first thing Obi-Wan says to Luke is a lie.
>>78046271
Immediately after this line was uttered an Imperial Officer scoffed at him. Vader choked him, yes, but other than Yoda lifting the X-Wing and Cheev's fireworks display on Luke, we didn't see much as to the actual imposing threat of the Force.
>>78046311
The force isn't shit in TCW OT and PT
So where does all this ALL MIGHTY FORCE shit come from?
>>78045683
Not canon now so it doesn't matter
>>78046271
TELL ME ABOUT BANE WHY DOES HE WEAR THE MASK
>>78045683
I like super hero Jedi and Sith
>>78046278
>luke could jump 100s of feet in the air
When did this happen? He jumped maybe fifteen-ish feet during his duel with Vader and that's all I can remember.
>>78047138
ROTJ that scene near the sarlac pit
>>78045683
Eh OP that's not really true. Everything in the SW universe was better during the Clone Wars. Even technology stagnates during the Empire era because Shev hoards new inventions.
The Empire Obi was facing was just as much of a shadow left by the clone wars as we was. Why wouldn't he get weaker when even his enemy weakened. Also only a few few Jedi actually had goku powers, most Jedi were barely more capable than an elite storm trooper.
then Luke isn't a proper Jedi, and Vader is in an even worse state than Obi by the time of New Hope. Their power levels are surprisingly well thought out.
This is added to the fact that Jedi / Sith themselves aren't even 5% as powerful as they were during the Old Republic, back when being a Jedi / Sith master was basically like being Grand Wizard Goku. Hell, the the Sith Emperor could kill the whole galaxy with the force given enough time.
>>78046192
To be fair with the new comic Vader can take out a small army by himself. Sure it's not brute force and there's some trickery, but still seemed like a hundred guys and few tanks left after the grenade trick.
>>78046962
Orbalisk was in vogue at the time.
>>78047541
Isn't it also possible that the force itself is in a fragile state after being buttfucked by the slaughter of the Jedi order?
>Luke, did I ever tell you about my good friends? They were good friends
>>78045683
Say what you will, but this bullshit ruined Star Wars for me.
Everyone and their mum knows how to handle the fucking light sabre (not to mention two at once) even though in looks so goddamn awkward in the movies, like it was supposed to be the very last resort weapon on a few whackos dared to ever use, but noooooo muh 1k light sabres simultaneously on screen FUCK!
The Force ain't no mystic mumbo-jumbo people have to tune into by ascesis and whatnot, but a goofy set of green-screens that allow its user to fly, run super fast and turn super sayian FUCK!
>Luke, did I ever tell you about how I thought Star Wars was a bunch of fairy-tale rubbish and I only did it because Fox paid me half a mint to do it? Good times.
>>78047703
If there was a jedi order why wouldn't its members all know how to do the tricks of the trade and wield lightsabers?
It'd be like hey let's make all these guys priests but not teach them any theology. Okay sure we did that for a time, but people realized "okay that's dumb" after a while.
Hell you act like if magic was real we wouldn't have already made it as efficient a process as possible.
>>78047731
>original movies
>light sabres awkward as all fuck alas the few can "naturally" handle them
>new movies
>MUH CHOREOGRAPHY MUH NUMBERS MUH LETS SWING THEM LIGHT SABRES AROUND LEL
>original movies
>mystical voodoo shit
>new movies
>MUH POWER LEVELS MUH MICRO CHLORIANS KEK
>original movies
>the duels are about the character, force jumps do exist but are never abused since they serve a point
>newer movies
>MUH SMB HACK JUMPIN JACK BULLSHIT MUH YODA MANLET GLITCHING AROUND ALL THE TIME LIKE A FUCKING FORCE ERROR WITH HIS MINI LIGHT SABRE HE TOOK OFF SOME KID LMAO
Not to mention literally no one remembers that bullshit in the original movies. Maybe if the "Clone Wars" was some fake shit fought in the remote parts of the galaxy that only served as a leverage for Palpie or whatever, but someone went way overboard with his shitty ideas.
The Force was handled wrong in the prequels and you can not say otherwise. That's a fact.
It being the point that ruined the whole thing for me is an opinion.
Cheers.
>>78046271
>>78046311
That might've been about the power of influence, but why would there be the Rebellion* if this was the case?
*Some of it should, to farther the "fear" agendas, but definitely not as successful as it was. Way too big and well organised.
>>78047873
To me the force was always vague retarded bullshit, as someone pointed out Vader says the death star is nothing compared to the power of the force. Deathbed Yoda can lift a fucking spaceship.
Clearly there was room for the force to be super powerful.
The prequels sucked, but I don't know if the basic concept of force being more powerful than it was when 5 people were using it, 4 senior citizens/cripples is the main issue.
The original movies aren't that good either.
>>78047873
>>original movies
>>light sabres awkward as all fuck alas the few can "naturally" handle them
>>new movies
>>MUH CHOREOGRAPHY MUH NUMBERS MUH LETS SWING THEM LIGHT SABRES AROUND LEL
It's almost like by the time the Prequels were made technology had advanced to the point that they could do the awesome shit they always wanted to in the Original Trilogy.
>>78047873
The fights were only like that because of technological limitations. Hell Lucas even said that before he went crazy since at that point he still maintained that Yoda wasn't a fighter.
>>78048106
>technological limitations
aka "old man versus guy in bulky rubber suit"
>>78046274
They were on a battlefield and had an army at their backs supporting them what they felt for danger was probably the droid army in thought. The last thing they would expect would be an entire army suddenly dropping their sights on them.
Well, when you consider the fact that Lucas based a large part of the Jedi off Samurai, maybe he just decided to switch from the realistic interpretation to Asian cinema's more 'elaborate' takes on the samurai for the prequels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmjaWn-pVvI
The Force Unleashed was billed as how the force would actually work without the OT's technical limitations, even though Starkiller is pretty top-tier.
>>78048338
Too bad the game was shit then.
>>78047541
Palpatine is called the strongest Sith to have ever existed by about six or seven different Legends sources (granted, all of them were before TOR was a thing, but still).
The idea that the newer generations of Jedi and Sith aren't shit compared to the old masters is purely a Kreia-ism.
>>78048355
It was pretty good
>>78048519
Not "strongest". "Most powerful." There is a difference.
>>78048731
Yes, but now you're arguing semantics. He's clearly supposed to be the strongest Sith ever.
“Yoda went after Palpatine in the empty Senate chamber, but could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history.”(The New Essential Chronology, page 84 )
The Emperor had known it would be thus, of course [that the Rebel Alliance would be troublesome]; the resistance had not been a surprise to him. The Emperor was completely in concert with the dark side of the Force. He was the most powerful Sith who had ever existed.” (Death Star, page 76)
“Vader imagined the power that could be his if he crushed Palpatine and established his own rule over the Empire. But first, he would need his own apprentice. By himself, he could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord the galaxy had ever known.” (Vader: the Ultimate Guide, page 19)
"Palpatine has spent decades studying the most arcane and esoteric Jedi disciplines. It is believed that he has mastered nearly all the known powers, previously unknown powers, and devises new ones at his pleasure"-- The Dark Empire Sourcebook.
“[The Galactic Emperor] had succeeded where all others failed in taming the Dark Side. He would journey across the universe, spreading the shadow of his rule, blotting out the stars themselves, and taking his Dark Rule to other helpless galaxies.”-- The Dark Side Sourcebook.
”Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time.”-- The Complete Visual Dictionary.
"The Sith Order, in hiding for a millennium, had awaited the birth of one who was powerful enough to return the Order to prominence. Darth Sidious was the fulfillment of that prophecy, capable of exacting the Sith's revenge on the Jedi for having nearly eradicated the practitioners of the dark side of the Force." -- the Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia.
>>78048787
But would he be stronger/more powerfull than Madara Uchiha?
>>78048887
Is this a meme?
>>78048934
Kinda, Madara is basically magic ninja Satan who works on playground rules
>>78048328
>1:30
>He even does the Sheev Spin
Confirmed.
>>78046213
Gendy shorts are also the only good thing about the Clone Wars era when the movies were out.
I'd rather have kung fu jedis with kick ass animation and an actually cool, if not a bit simple plot than whatever the FUCK were the prequels.
>>78047703
>Everyone and their mum knows how to handle the fucking light sabre
That's because the "everyone" you're looking at is now primarily Jedi and Sith (and one cyborg warrior trained by a Sith) rather than Imperial soldiers, smugglers and Rebels. What you're experiencing is an end-user problem with your inability to perceive a change in context or scale.
> it was supposed to be the very last resort weapon on a few whackos dared to ever use
It's specifically described as "the weapon of a Jedi Knight". Again, end-user problem, you're the one assuming Jedi considered their lightsaber a last resort weapon rather than a primary.
> that allow its user to fly, run super fast and turn super sayian FUCK!
Did you even watch Return of the Jedi (which was still basically the showing of what would amount to a hastily-trained Padawan Learner in the old days) or are you basing your perceptions solely on the Obi-Wan/Vader duel of Star Wars itself, which even Lucas described as a fight between a "cripple in an iron lung and an old man"?
>>78045683
The unbalance in the force is weakening the Jedi's ties to the force and therefore their powers.
Jedi bullshit in the prequels was made way too flashy and quick, but Jedi were supposed to be an unstoppable force.
Vader watches a space station blow up a whole fucking planet and goes "eh, not as strong as the force."
Luke walks into Jabba's Palace without completing his training and just goes "look, man, I'm a Jedi. There's nothing you can do to stop me, so just give me what I want and I won't have to slice you stem to stern"
>>78048328
>that kid who double jumped on his sword
>>78048328
WHY JUMP IF YOU CAN FLY?
>>78045683
I'm watching this right now. The action fluctuates between fucking cool and fucking terrible wildly.
Most of the clone stuff fighting the droids is great but it seems to shit itself whenever a lightsabre is involved.
Fucking Mace Windu's fighting an army of droids by himself and they just walk right up to him without firing their lasers and politely wait for him to slice them up.
Why is this so inconsistent?
>>78049953
To be a little fair, shooting lasers at jedi armed with lightsabers tends to be a really bad move.
>>78050091
Worked for the clones.
I think the idea that the feats in the original trilogy are less impressive because of some kind of spiritual degradation on the part of the characters kind of laughable or at least unnecessary.
The reality is that the prequels just upped up the action because Lucas is tasteless and the Clone Wars animated series was simply very stylized and exaggerated (just like Samurai Jack was). By the time of Return of the Jedi Luke was some hot shit even if it doesn't look that way compared to the dull flippy shenanigans of Revenge of the Sith or Mace Windu's Force karate.
It's a change in presentation and that's about it. I don't know why people fixate on it so much.
>>78050290
you're asking one of the most autistic fanbase on the entire world (if not the most autistic) to not fixate on details. Think about it.
I thought one of the ideas in the original is that people have lost touch with the force which is why the Jedi Knight order is basically dead on top of being hunted to death by the Sith.
Makes sense that Luke has to grimace at something for 5 minutes to get it to move because nobody is teaching force techniques let alone taught him any, so its amazing he can do anything at all.
And besides, its the clone wars. they're a bunch of shorts created to reel in 12 year old boys, what makes you think any of that shit is canon?
I only know the 2d shorts kept me more hooked than the 3d animated series. Turned that one off mid third episode cause it bored me too much and the dialogue was cringy as fuck.
>>78050537
With all due respect.
>>78048787
>“[The Galactic Emperor] had succeeded where all others failed in taming the Dark Side. He would journey across the universe, spreading the shadow of his rule, blotting out the stars themselves, and taking his Dark Rule to other helpless galaxies.”-- The Dark Side Sourcebook.
JESUS CHRIST THIS IS C'TON TIER SHIT
>>78050693
C'Tan?
>>78050713
Yeah, I fucked that up.
>>78046311
I choose to think this was a respect thing.
He loved that hunk of metal. He'd never own it.
>>78048787
I thought the idea was that Vader was literally the most powerful Force user to ever exist, but The Emperors mastery of the Dark Side allowed him to control Vader, inspite of being weaker both physically and in "power" uses of the Force.
I mean not to get shit like power levels into this. Starting to do that ruins things even faster than normal.
>>78050861
Vader had the potential but, cybernetic parts do hinder him.
>>78046192
Funny you should say that, Vader Down addressed that scenario this very month
>>78050815
I was actually referring to Obi-Wan Kenobi being a name he hadn't used since before Luke's birth.
>>78050861
Most of all, Sheev is a wise and tricky old geezer, he manipulated Vader rather than control him, he put him deliberately in a position, when Anakin's only hope was to learn the deeper secrets of the Dark Side, to overcome the physical limitations that hindered him. And Palpatine was a sole teacher available.
>>78050929
Damn, is it worth reading?
I watched the prequel trilogy and OP's pic for the first time last week, I'm happy people are talking about it.
Really loved Sheev in the cartoon, he was like an old king messing with everyone at once and knew that he'd win no matter what setbacks occurred, any other Sheev stories comparable?
Also, I asked a friend why JarJar is mostly written out after the first movie and he sent me a Reddit post that described many reasons why he was supposed to be the original villain of the prequels, very interesting stuff.
>>78050980
I think the new Vader comics are pretty good. Vader talks too much though
>>78050899
I think he was more hindered psychologically.
>>78051062
I'm pretty sure it was established somewhere that he couldn't use force lighting without actual limbs. Not that it has anything to do with his overall powerlevel, but noteworthy
>>78051021
That JarJar stuff is pure bullshit. He was largely written out because even Lucas knew people fucking hated him.
>>78051140
Supposedly the loss of his limbs/injuries weakened his abilities with the force; there was a comic where he came in contact with a dark side amplifier that let him use lightning. Another part of it is that given how much he relies on machinery to live, the lightning could kill him if it rebounded.
>>78045683
Why can't you keep your epin maymays on /tv/?
>>78050929
Comics Vader never really gave a fuck about armies or being outnumbered. Pretty sure there's a panel from Ghost Prison I can't find where he just wades into a sea of traitorous cadets like it ain't no thing
>>78050693
I remember that mission in Star Wars: Empire At War where you just control Sheev as he goes around Bothawui and smokes everyone.
>>78048555
>God of War: Star Wars Edition with double the quick time events
>good
>>78045683
In space, nobody had arthritis medication.
Will this meme ever get old and die?
>>78051021
go watch the redlettermedia reviews of episodes 1 2 and 3
>>78053851
>go join the biggest bandwagon in history
Why you say such mean things to anon?
>>78047541
Even as a fan of TOR, I would highly debate Force Users being stronger back then.
>All 3 TOR-era games have force users standing awkwardly in one place, repeatedly smacking things with light-nerf-bats because apparently cortosis weave is the new cotton
>With the rare leaps across expanses or dashes towards an enemy
I guess this is why I liked playing Sniper in TOR, it's where 'standing on place spamming a few attacks' makes perfect sense and doesn't feel awkward.
I feel like my BH should be flying around more (or just flying at all), smugglers should be... Okay they're fine too, troopers should be moving around more and so should Force Users. I mean the lightsaber fighting tends to be stiffer than Original Trilogy.
>>78047612
>Wearing force-eating parasites on your body
Uggh. Could the man seriously not just don some pure cortosis platting on key parts of his armor something? What about Phrink? seriously, there's a billion better options for lightsaber resistant materials.
>>78047138
>>78047144
to be fair, the sarlacc jump scene seemed more like an eight meter jump. Still impressive.
>>78046645
like most things in the EU: heavily extrapolated from off-hand comments by characters like Darth Vader saying "The death star is nothing compared to The Force".
>>78050929
How much did they tone down the force in new canon?
>>78047665
>that thing on the bottom right
Why
>>78047703
Show us on the Ewok doll where the Jedi touched you, Anon...
>>78045683
Hehe . . . meme
>>78054274
>Uggh. Could the man seriously not just don some pure cortosis platting on key parts of his armor something? What about Phrink? seriously, there's a billion better options for lightsaber resistant materials.
Orbalisks were plan B. He tripped a trap in a temple on Dxun and they all fell on him. Sort of a happy accident, since they grant you tremendous strength in exchange for excruciating pain, which fuels the dark side anyways, and eating some of your force power. Of course when he wanted to make a holocron he had to ditch em.
>>78047703(You)
>>78049701
>Luke walks into Jabba's Palace without completing his training and just goes "look, man, I'm a Jedi. There's nothing you can do to stop me, so just give me what I want and I won't have to slice you stem to stern"
Difference between standing strong in front of some gangsters and taking on a goddamn army. Nigga still was afraid of the Rancor.
>>78050861
Vader had the potential to be more powerful, but after his injuries on Mustafar, he'd never be capable of what he previously had the potential for.
Lucas said that Anakin had the potential to be twice as powerful as Palpatine, but after he sustained those injuries on Mustafar he'd only ever be capable of about 80% of what Palpatine is capable of.
Which is still fucking ridiculously powerful, more than pretty much every other Force user.
>>78055011
It's not as ridiculous as the EU was at its peak, but it's not weak. If you've watched TCW, you've got a basic idea of how strong most Force users are, and with Lords of the Sith we see how Vader and Palpatine are pretty much on a completely different level.
gb2>>>/tv/
>>78050929
did he died?
>>78050929
How the hell do you end up being surrounded by so many soldiers
>>78045683
>That reminds me. Luke, did I ever tell you that in our prime
They weren't in their prime, the opposite. Wish people would be more aware of that already.
>Lowest their number had been in millennia at 10k.
>Their powers were greatly weakened due to the Sith shrine on Coruscant
>The imbalance in the Force on top of that.
Also Genndy Wars was officially meant to be a propaganda piece made by the Republic which is why it was so over the top with the Jedi, you were supposed to just shut up and enjoy it instead of being a dummy.
>>78046311
>When I first met him, your father was already a great pilot. But I was amazed how strongly the Force was with him. I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi.
Bullshit, he wasn't really a pilot at all and you didn't just take it upon yourself to train him either.
Fuck you, Lucas.
>>78050929
God, that was fucking glorious
>>78058211
Spoilers if somebody else plans to read
>Vader goes to planet looking for Luke in his TIE fighter
>turns out a whole ton of rebels are there and its one of their bases
>Vader destroys a ton of Rebel fighters that attack him until Luke crashes into him forcing both to crashland on the planet
>while Luke explores shit, Vader gets surrounded
>>78058192
If by he you mean every rebel in the frame, then yes
>>78058754
Did they talk to each other again?
>>78058921
Luke and Vader? I don't think so but I don't remember exactly
>>78047665
I used to think Panaka was a cool dude until I found out he became a Moff.
>>78058938
I don't think they've met since Vader discovered Luke's his son, but the most recent issue ends with Vader running into Leia. Han, Luke Chewy and R2 are off dealing with Aphra and the murder droids
>>78045683
It's really sad when you think about it:
Obi is an old,warburned veteran,Vader is a cripple,half functioning walking cyborg...and Lordie Palpatine is also a scar filled living carcase...and don't make me start on good ol' Yoda.
You can't go around asking for cool battle aerobatics from a bunch of phisically ruined fellas.
>>78046212
presumably Palp was working some serious Sith sorcery that day and jammed up everybody's spider-sense
I always hated that Jedi got turned into superheroes. Took away some of their mystic magic, you know? And if you're gonna go full Hong Kong Action on this shit at least commit to it, don't give me guys who're useless without a fucking lightsaber if they can telekinetically impregnate a woman from across a star system.
The power creep is so ludicrous it just ruins whatever immersion you have with the existing characters. That and Star Wars has a godawful habit of attributing the characteristics and skills of cool characters to their entire respective species or cultures. So instead of Boba Fett being a unique bounty hunter suddenly there's a whole planet of Boba Fetts with the same armor and jetpack as his. Instead of Jabba the Hutt being this really slimy, unique space gangster there's a whole planet of Jabba the Hutts who're exactly the same as he is. That combined with the new movie explicitly featuring yet another fucking Death Star has killed any hope I had for Star Wars experiencing a comeback.
>>78050929
So how did Vader get out of this? Seriously, if all the rebels shot him at once, I can't see him deflecting ALL of their fire. And even if he could kill any one of them in seconds, he's still surrounded by enough troops that it would take minutes to kill them all, during which time they can all keep firing at him. Did he basically just Superman his way out of this because fuck it, he's Darth Vader?
>>78046192
>>78046146
Look, the fact of the matter is Special Effects were limited back in the day. And even then, Vader and Palpy pulled off some impressive stunts. A Force Sensitive is capable of some crazy shit, not "dragonball z" level but they're good.
There's a reason the clones had to catch them off guard in the middle of the night.
>>78061464
It's Star Wars, nobody can ever hit a Jedi/Sith with a blaster rifle unless the narrative demands it.
Bullshit plot armor is a staple of the franchise, there's no point questioning it now.
>>78061140
>That and Star Wars has a godawful habit of attributing the characteristics and skills of cool characters to their entire respective species or cultures.
I don't get that complaint. You're asking a little too much of sci fi writers to give every last character and species a completely unique personality or culture.
>>78061635
This
Remember that part in A New Hope where the Stormtroopers can shoot Luke Skywalker or any of his chums even in a narrow corridor? I've honestly just come to the conclusion that blasters are a, just automatic muskets and b, the force pretty much likes to play fate with everything at it's whim.
>>78061140
I'm okay with multiple Hutts (though they are far less interesting the more they show up), but I've got to agree with you on the power creep.
The power creep pushes all non-Jedi into the background. The droid army is hardly a threat when Jedi wipe the floor with them so handily, and when the only thing that can really threaten them in the plot is another Jedi, and the struggle of the Rebels vs the Empire feels ludicrous when "super special space mystics" destroy battleships and superweapons like they're styrofoam props.
>>78061635
Movie version:
ANAKIN: No one can kill a Jedi!
QUI-GON: I wish that were true.
EU version:
ANAKIN: No one can kill a Jedi!
QUI-GON: Fuck yeah, we're invincible, feels good man.
>>78061764
Tbh senpai, Jedi/Sith should be the most important groups in Star Wars. They're one of the most iconic things in all of fiction. Including them in anything, and not making them important is at best ballsy and at worst the kiss of death for that particular story.
Not saying you can't focus on other things, but you can't have a Force Sensitive be there as just a background character
>>78061786
But even that's better than what actually happens.
No one can kill a Jedi, apart from Grievous who singlehandedly takes out 3-4 at a time, or clone troopers withing 2 minutes of hearing the words "Execute Order 66."
On those very specific occasions, Jedi go down like bowling pins.
>>78061647
That's not what I'm asking, though. There's a difference between "Make an entire planet of Boba Fetts" and "Boba Fett happens to come from this planet."
Get it?
>>78061764
See how that works? The concept of Jedi as space knights or space samurai gets a bit stale when their abilities outpace the established setting.
>>78061464
During his speech he activated the grenades of nearby soldiers, then he just dove into the nearest group so they couldn't all shoot. Then he deflected the tank shot, and summoned a sandstorm. With the sandstorm in play the rebels were blind but with the force Vader just cut them down.
>>78061958
To be fair to Grievous he lightsaber skills would have given most Jedi a lot of trouble, and few jedi immediately think "Ah Fuck it force choke"
The clones were pure jobbing. At least I can buy the ones who got blown up by tanks and shit cause maybe their senses just thought it was an imminent droid attack.
>>78045683
Man the EU makes Han Solo's skepticism of the force make no sense, especially if he has travelled all over the galaxy and found no evidence the jedi or the force are real
>>78061464
In canon explanation is: if you are powerful enough in the force you can figure out exactly how to move to be in the perfect position each time. Its not just your lightsaber, its your entire physical and spiritual essence moving in perfect sync to get the result you need. It is why Obi-wan and Vader were fighting so slow in A New Hope, because they weren't trying to out move each other, they were focusing their awareness to try to defeat the other person's perfect defense, while foreseeing what the other person would do to try to defeat theirs.
It was basically two solar exalts using perfect defenses until one of them ran out of juice and the other could capitalize.
>>78061737
I like that one fan theory that everything that happened on the Deathstar was on purpose to allow them to escape so that they could lead the empire to the rebel base. It would explain why a military force that has been indoctrinated to serve the empire and is renown for their accuracy couldn't hit anything.
>>78046181
I saw him kill... Younglings.... On the security hologram
Did /tv/ just now get around to watching Plinkett's reviews? Why is this meme being forced?
>>78063533
What do you mean?
>>78063212
The problem is that the Trilogy viewed the force as a stand-in for faith and divine power, Luke is figuratively ascending to godhood when he becomes a Jedi. It is why Luke never actually helps the rebels in the third movie, but you know for a FACT that they would never have won if he hadn't defeated the emperor.
Jedi and Sith are forces of the universe, a combination of luck, faith, karma, and oracle.
But in the prequels and EU, Jedi and Sith became stand-ins for having Superpowers. Jedi and Sith are pretty much superheroes and villains from cape comics. Imagine if the X-men all got lightsabers when they joined an X-team, or the Avengers, or the Justice League.
What it is to be a Jedi or Sith was lessened and made more common, a literary version of the inverse-ninja rule.
>>78063533
/tv/ forcing memes has nothing to do with when they watch things. Do you think anyone actually watches DKR anymore. Aside from maybe the plane scene? Hell I haven't see it in ages and I could still word for word it given all the memes.
>>78063414
>>78063339
Actually really digging these
>>78063613
I like Jedi and Sith as superheroes tho. with great power comes great responsibility and that shit
>>78061635
I can stomach plot armor if the story at least shows main character putting effort into getting out of a jam. That scene in Vader Down was good because Vader uses cunning along with his powers to take down the rebels. A lazy writer would just show Vader tanking every shot and Force choking everyone all at once, or even skipping all of that for a page of him standing on a pile of bodies.
>>78054274
>Even as a fan of TOR, I would highly debate Force Users being stronger back then.
>>All 3 TOR-era games have force users standing awkwardly in one place, repeatedly smacking things with light-nerf-bats because apparently cortosis weave is the new cotton
>>With the rare leaps across expanses or dashes towards an enemy
>I guess this is why I liked playing Sniper in TOR, it's where 'standing on place spamming a few attacks' makes perfect sense and doesn't feel awkward.
>I feel like my BH should be flying around more (or just flying at all), smugglers should be... Okay they're fine too, troopers should be moving around more and so should Force Users. I mean the lightsaber fighting tends to be stiffer than Original Trilogy.
You put way more thought into the fighting mechanics than Bioware did. KOTOR 1 and 2 are just D&D rules with some generic Star Wars animations. And TOR combat is WoW with lightsabers.
>>78047662
>Isn't it also possible that the force itself is in a fragile state after being buttfucked by the slaughter of the Jedi order?
The Force is nothing but a bunch of micro organisms that give you super powers if you have enough of them in your blood.
The number of Jedi and Sith in the universe wouldn't have any effect on a person's Force abilities. The only thing that affects a person's Force abilities is the quantity of Midichlorians in their bloodstream (the more you have, the stronger you are) and how much training you've had to exploit the powers they give you.
>>78061886
They honestly work best as space wizards, and like normal wizards, you don't want them to do everything by themselves because that gets boring as shit.
>>78045683
Which animated series was this?
>>78064090
>skipping all of that for a page of him standing on a pile of bodies
That's why I hate I Hate Fairyland.
>>78064842
Genndy's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVk9lPotcW4
>>78063414
It's not a fan theory. It's directly stated in the film, both by Tarkin and by Leia.
>>78064414
I agree. But ever since KOTOR 2 introduced the edgy idea that the Force is bad, people have been trying to prove how shit Jedi are and I find that annoying.
>>78064396
Midiclorians aren't canon.
>>78065829
yeah its like the trend in media where we can't have real heroes anymore
>>78066059
Yes, yes they are
>>78066059
Yes they are.
>prequels aren't canon meme
Just because you don't like the movies doesn't mean they aren't canon.
>>78064396
I know midis are part of the mythos now because it was in one of the main movies and can never be gotten rid of.
But is this how they actually work? Jedi are only as powerful as the number of bacteria in their systems and that's it?
>>78062471
>but with the force
with the Force, Vader should never have been surrounded in the first place.
>>78066172
Midichlorians are attracted to the Force. They are markers for how connected a person is to the force. So in a way, yes, they are only as powerful as the number of midis their force connection draws in.
>>78045683
>>78047703
>>78047873
Like this guy said
>>78047541
It's DELIBERATE. The Republic was a Golden Age camelot, it was time of glory and might. In the OT, all we see from force users are Old out of shape men, barely trained boys, and fucked up half people.
A major thematic through line was the Fall from the republic. It's why we went from Space Vietnam to Space WW2, the scale in the PT is ramped up to show the massive galaxy and mighty of the republic only hinted at in the ot.
Like, how do you miss a point so obvious?
>>78064396
>>78066172
>>78066235
The midichlorians just process the force like chloroplasts do the sun. They made that pretty explicit.
>>78066172
>Jedi are only as powerful as the number of bacteria in their systems and that's it?
Honestly the only people who are bothered by this are "BURNING JUSTICE I MUST SUCCEED" fags. The kind who think that "believing in yourself" and "summoning the will power in the heat of battle" should actually make you stronger and tip the scale in your favor.
But no, that's not how things work. Midiclorians put a cap on how powerful a Jedi can be and they can never be any better than their midi count. Jedis aren't Super Saiyans you faggots.
>>78066172
The exact connection between count and power level is never really made clear.
There's the Living Force, which is generated (as you'd imagine) by all living things. When they die, the Living Force is fed back into the Cosmic Force, which is what binds the galaxy together as Yoda told Luke.
The Cosmic Force begets the Living Force, and the Living Force feeds the Cosmic Force.
Midichlorians are the middle-man in this cycle, the link between the two.
>>78066351
>The exact connection between count and power level is never really made clear.
>power level
Jesus Christ, this is Star Wars not Dragonball Z. Go back to /a/
>>78045683
I like to pretend the prequel movies are taken from Anakin's diary for the most part.
>>78066387
Considering the movies (and George in interviews and commentary) make pretty clear statements on the level of power certain characters have... perhaps your autism would best be served by going back to /tv/.
>>78066314
yeah. they even named them a combination of mitochondria and chloroplasts. it's supposed to be mitochlorians. They're just how well your cells work to turn the force from magic into something your meat body can actually use
Fuck, the way they phrased it, it might just be a SIDE-EFFECT of the force
>>78066503
>I absolutely have to put a numerical power level on a character so I can rank them in order of strongest to weakest
I think you are the one who is crippled with autism. Maybe you should step away from the keyboard and get a juice box.
>>78066653
Anon, I never said that.
Besides, you really can't actually give numbers for anybody except Anakin, Yoda, and Sheev. The rest are vague as fuck.
>>78045683
I honestly believe this is less a change in power and more a change of aesthetic.
Leaping around and all the acrobatic shit looks impressive, but acrobatics leaves you very open from a tactical perspective. Jedi in the original have shown themselves capable of great feats of power and agility through the force, but they were reserved for when they'd be useful. You don't need to leap 100 feet in the air to fight a dude next to you, and frankly doing that is how Vader lost his limbs against Obi Wan.
Hell, the shift might be planned. Lets examine Obi's change in combat style over the prequals. All three constitute the 'new era' of more flash so a change in how the movies are made isn't the cause. When he's a Padawan, he and his master both use far more acrobatics. Acrobatics that got his master killed against Maul. After his death, Obi Wan loses a lot of his more exaggerated sabre play, and he uses a lot less leaps in combat. He adopts a very defense orriented style compared to most other Jedi. Likely precisely because his master died to how bad an idea leaping mid combat is.
Anikin has a shift as well. He loss against count Dooku had a small shift. Of course we can't see him fight in the prequals after he loses all his limbs against Obi, but in theory the further distilling of his own style is precisely because he tried to be flashy and paid a very high price for it. As Vader, he's very aggressive but his style is very deliberate with it's application of force.
I put forth the loss of flash and acrobatics was because that era of Jedi was marked by a large time of peace beforehand. In which the vast majority of Jedi had never been in a legitimate sabre duel. The ones that experienced it noticeably ditched a bunch of their flashier movements afterward.
Granted the prequals as a whole are far more flashy at their base.
>>78066227
>with the Force, Vader should never have been surrounded in the first place.
That way they were all in reach.
>>78048994
but for some reason he's vulnerable to being punched in the face
>>78066786
Yeah, and Mace Windu gets away with all of his bullshit because he's Samuel L. Jackson
Why don't they just use bullets to kill Jedi?
>>78067898
The only bullets are plasma and rockets.
>>78067196
you can't outbullshit a punch. There's no bullshit to work with, it's just a punch.
>>78067898
Like some kind of primitive?
>>78067898
The jedi can BLOCK bullets. Hell, most games allow THEM to fucking deflect FIRE and sound waves. Jedi are GODS. GODS don't fear the tools of mortals unless they run out of PLOT ARMOR.
>>78068118
Obito tried pretty fucking hard
>>78066786
Too bad the new movies will have everyone leaping about and completely murder your sound argument.
But, we can jump that hurdle when we get to it.
>>78068255
There are barely any force users in the new movies. We have roughly seven untrained Sith fanboys calling themselves the Knights of Ren. Luke is a Jedi. Leia might have some small amount of training, but it appears that she's become a general instead of a Jedi.
It's unconfirmed if any of the new protagonists are force sensitive, but rumors indicate Rey is and Finn is not, and none of them have any training.
>>78068373
And that will stop the characters from flipping around with lightsabers for the sake of being over the top and flashy, how?
I didn't watch much of the new star wars stuff, but i did catch an episode of the cartoon where a random schmuck with no force abilities picked up a lightsaber and dueled jedi while being just as flippy and all over the place as them.
Being "untrained" won't stop the characters in the movie from featuring the same style of choreography we've seen in everything since the prequel triology.
>>78068505
It may have been the case that said 'random schmuck' was either actually a force sensitive person or an alien creature who by virtue of genetics could flippy floppy.
>>78068505
I think you're being overly negative.
>>78065620
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUd4cRR4yeU&index=2&list=PLh53CQ1FFu0NDz8F--4p4zWRw3kyPhAUw
I finished watching The Clone Wars today and after holding out for ten years, I finally watched Episode III.
A friend said that the show makes the movie a little better. And, yes, the Order 66 scene had a stronger emotional impact, but it makes me inconsolably sad that this movie was always to be the epilogue to such a great show.
>>78063339
>ran out of juice
is the force like magic in games where you're only allowed so much mana before you tap out?
that would explain why yoda didn't use the force to grab his lightsaber at the start of the sheev fight like he did with dooku, like he was saving all the force mana he had for more practical use against sheev
>>78068194
Wouldn't bullets just melt and burn the Jedi instead of being deflected?
>>78066227
This >>78066887
Vader was even willing to accept a surrender.
>>78070111
This is not a sound argument. If that was how lightsabers worked when Jedi cut through anything they'd be showered in molten material as it passed through the beam.
This lightsaber bickering reminds me about how Filoni made George keep the NTSC trace lines and stopmotion effects for dejarik in TCW because they were part of the style.
George just was like 'we just didn't have smooth animation at the time man'.
>>78070111
I imagine that the metal in the bullets would evaporate upon contact with the lightsaber
>>78068194
my theory is that while bullets might be effective, they are solid pieces of metal that need to be manufactured and transported, if you have a large army that needs to be supplied across an entire galaxy its more convenient for each soldier to carry weapons that don't use solid ammunition, a Jedi might block those but what are the chances the average soldier will encounter them?
Plus laser weapons seem to work underwater and in space, so I think they are a lot more convenient that bullets.
>>78070111
Dunno about now, but lightsabers originally did not emit heat. They were closer to a colored disintegration field than a beam.
They have also been shown to block bullets, fire and sound waves on various videogames and novels.
Watch out for that vicious bounty hunter Boba Fett, Luke. Did I ever tell you I fought his dad? He was hired to assassinate a senator me and your father were guarding. We kept bringing her around open windows and public areas in order to draw the would-be assassin out because we knew he had too much pride to just shoot her from long range. He had used his payment to hire another bounty hunter to kill the senator for him while he sent us on a wild bantha chase. Also the 2nd assassin used her payment to buy a robot to assassinate the senator for her. Did I mention the 2nd assassin was a shapeshifter? She could have been a good friend in disguise and just shot the senator for all we knew! Then the robot used its payment to buy poisonous bugs to release into the senator's room while she slept after lasering a hole through the window. It could have just lasered her too after that because we we weren't watching her at all, but it already bought the bugs. So we sense the hostile life forms (not the robot) in the room and rush in and save the senator in the nick of time! Then I jumped out the window to chase the robot back to its owner! Luckily it didn't have a self-destruct function. Then we found the 2nd assassin and chased her across the planet, and caught her when she tried to kill us instead of shapeshifting and escaping. But to our surprise, Jango Fett was watching the whole thing instead of going to kill the senator while we were away chasing the bugs chasing the robot chasing the shapeshifter. He shot her with a poisonous dart instead of sniper blaster, and only her instead of shooting all of us or blowing all of us with a rocket or something, then he escaped with his tiny jetpack. Luckily for the senator, my good friend Dexterr Jettster owned a 50s dinner on Courscant that had Republic secrets on the menu along with cheeseburgers and malt shakes. We found the assassin and Mace Window killed him later, right in front of Boba. And he was a good friend.
>>78070551
>A bounty hunter hired another bounty hunter to put scary bugs in Padme's bed
The laughs never stop with the PT.
>>78070538
Laser weapons in the Star Wars universe eventually need to be recharged, but that takes a LOT of shots before that happens.
I forget the exacts on how blasters are recharged, but I figured this is an important detail to point out.
>>78070603
You switch the tibana gas/power cell thingamabob that looks like a magazine.
>>78070538
Slugthrowers were said to be completely ineffective against Star Wars armor of any kind, which is why blasters.
>>78046146
>Choking people really far away = pulling off manoeuvres that would tear your body apart if you tried it, like said thousand feet leaps
Also, it kind of overshadows the whole "War does not make one great" speech, when it turns out that the Jedi could casually wipe out entire civilisations of they put their mind to it, but were conveniently too weak to defeat the lab grown soldiers whose tactics and fighting style they knew in and out, on account of fighting along them.
And let's not even bother with the "Can block laser with his hand" bit. He's a freaking cyborg. That hand is made out of metal AND protected by the best armour the Empire has. Han taking a shot at him in the first place with that blaster pistol was about as threatening to the guy as someone going after an armoured medieval knight with a knife back in the OT.
>>78070593
And then said bounty hunter showed up to help fight against the republic, for which he gave his genes to have an army made out of.
Did they hire him to do it?
Why was he there?
Why did he want to kill the Jedi who had no proof against him being the assassin sent agains the senator, and only figured out that there was a clone army that would be given to the Jedi anyway?
Who knows!
The Fetts really have a run of being the worst imaginable bounty hunters in the galaxy as far as the movies go.
>Luke, did I ever tell you about Anakin Skywalker? Imagine being me in the Jedi Temple and having to be all like "damn, Anakin, you fuckin' edgy, all brooding with your angry eyes and horrific androgynous monster hair. I would totally train you, both as your master and your friend." when all I really want to do is train a different youngling in the practice chamber. Like seriously imagine having to be me and not only sit in my Council chair while Anakin flaunts his disgusting pride in front of me, the favorable opinions of the other masters barely concealing his childish incompetence and hatred of sand, and just sit there, meeting after meeting, hour after hour, while he perfected that glare. Not only having to tolerate his monstrous fucking visage but his haughty attitude as everyone in the council chamber tells him he's THE CHOSEN ONE and DAMN, ANAKIN ACTS LIKE *THAT*?? because they're not the ones who have to sit there and watch his smug fucking gundark face contort into types of grimaces you didn't even know existed before that day. You've been training nothing but a healthy set of Padawans and Knights and later murdered younglings for your ENTIRE CAREER coming straight out of the boonies on Stewjon. You've never even seen anything this fucking cringey before, and now you swear you can taste the sweat that's breaking out on his boyish face as he tries to frown angrily at you, smugly assured that you are enjoying the opportunity to sit there and revel in his "destined (for that is what his calls himself)" purpose, the purpose he worked so hard for by winning podraces in the previous years. And then Master Yoda calls for another meeting, and you know you could kill every single person in the chamber before the Council could put you down, but you sit there and endure, because I'm fucking Obi-Wan. I'm not going to lose my future Tatooine retirement over this. Just bear it. Hide my face and bear it.
He was a good friend
>>78045683
>Been trying to get IMAX tickets for TFA for the last six hours.
>Been trying on chrome, firefox, and the fucking mobile app
>Fandango either keeps spewing out 502 errors when I try to assign seats or "problem with your order" message whenever I get far enough into finalize my order.
>Movie probably won't be anywhere good enough to justify all this bullshit.
>But I still keep trying.
Sorry to blog like a fag but this is just frustrating.
>>78072140
>Spending more time on getting into a movie, than watching it.
Welcome to the new age of cinema.
What a time to be alive.
>>78047665
what did kit fisto do wrong again?>>78047665
>>78070551
>what are police, what are private security guards, what are detectives
it's not like the Jedi were the only people the BHs had to deal with.
You can't just shoot missiles at peoples windows on Courscant. You'd be dead before you even started. Their security forces are brutal, hell the Empire got it's logo from the Courscant police force.
>>78058531
Anakin could fly a podracer, something a non force sensitive human couldn't pull off and won a race. He then proceeded to blow up a space station with a single startfighter. He was a great pilot
>>78050537
The 3d series got a lot better in the later seasons, but I can understand why you'd drop it
>>78072250
He was a good friend
>>78046271
tell me, why does he wear the mask?
>>78070551
>>78046212
The best way to sum this up is the scene where the one twilek gets gunned down. She sees the clones raise their weapons and instead of responding to fight the clones, she turns her back to them to try and see what they were aiming at. The force didn't know what to make of that shit.
Besides that, clones are way more competent than those retarded do nothing made of tin foil droids. As for why didn't a good number escape? A good number did according to a large amount of canon and legends EU. The problem is their entire system was dismembered from there on and only one message really got out as far as communication goes.
>>78058489
>>Their powers were greatly weakened due to the Sith shrine on Coruscant
the what now
>>78072250
he went up against Palpy
>>78072777
It's from Tarkin. Apparently the Jedi temple was built on a Sith shrine, and over thousands of years it was weakening the Jedi and making them dumb.
But like most things in that book it was stupid and not worth paying attention to.
Why did the Empire stop using clones?
Were they to expensive?
Did the Emperor say these clones are hot shit better stop using them or the might rebel and I'll get a real problem?
>>78068505
>And that will stop the characters from flipping around with lightsabers for the sake of being over the top and flashy, how?
It probably won't, but frankly, you'll probably have to watch the new movies to see if JJ is going to adhere to the OT style of lightsaber dueling or ditch it for a PT style of lightsaber fighting. Given that JJ has a hard-on for the Original Trilogy, though, I think that he might opt to preserve the OT style of lightsaber fighting. Outside of a bunch of trailers, I think it's too early to make the call on whether you'll have Jedi flipping around acrobatically fighting wuxia style.
>>78070551
>Then the robot used its payment to buy poisonous bugs to release into the senator's room while she slept after lasering a hole through the window
My sides
>>78072867
I think it's said somewhere that they weren't efficient in the long run since they take a while to produce and then accelerated aging kills them off in a couple of years.
>>78072867
Presumably it was a combination of clones being expensive and the cloners overusing Jango's DNA, degrading it to the point that new clones were coming out all autistic and gangly.
Of course, in Attack of the Clones we see literally thousands of babies being grown, and we know it takes 10 years for clones to be fully grown, so by the time of Rebels there should still be lots of clones in service.
When you look at it like that, all those The Clone Wars episodes about the Republic wanting to order more clones come off as kind of pointless since the war would be long over before any of them would see service.
I've also heard that the reason the clones were done away with was because Palpatine was afraid they were getting too independent and would turn against him. Of course, that is a crock of shit since the clones were designed to be completely loyal and less individualistic than Jango.
The real reason they stopped using clones is because the Stormtroopers weren't clones in A New Hope, and Clone Troopers are competent while Stormtroopers are not, so they have to write them out somehow. Which is funny considering Lucas' original plan for the Stormtroopers was that they were an army of clones beneath their armor. Seems like it'd be easy to say that clones are still in service, they've just been made a minority due to recruiting, but Filoni gonna Filoni, and so all clones were decommissioned because Palpatine said so because reasons.
>>78058971
Whoa whoa wait what?
>>78072941
This is so fucking retarded.
>>78045683
>Dragon Ball Z
>That reminds me. Luke, did I ever tell you about Dragonball Z?
>>78070430
why do you think they all wear those thick-ass robes
>>78072941
I thought it was implied that they did it because the Clones didn't like having control chips in their brains.
Also the old EU explanation was that either the rebels or the empire ended up destroying the all the cloning facilities to prevent the enemy from getting to them.
>>78058531
But that's wrong, you idiot.
>>78073336
It was moreso that the Jedi gave the clones an independent streak, and also because clones are ridiculously expensive and time-consuming to create and train (along with the "stretching" issues they were having).
Meanwhile, they can pretty much brainwash the stormtrooper recruits to become extremely loyal without having to resort to implants.
The reason for Obi Wan's deteriation of skills is obvious due to his age and lack of combat to keep him in shape.This is all aside from the technological limitations of the 70s.
Vader was more machine than man, he was bulky as fuck and couldn't do all that jedi shit anymore, so he compensates by using very powerful blows with his suit enhancing his strength.
Luke wasn't trained in the forms of Lightsaber techniques until after the original trilogy. So of course he is going to use basic techniques. Also it seems Luke copies his daddy's fighting style of aggressive swings.
Basically most forms represented in the OT were form V, this is an aggressive form, and the style of V used focuses on strength and rage. In contrast the new movies use pretty much all but form V. Ataruu is the most agile form and we see Yoda use it.
Of course once again it needs to be stated that sci-fi movies before Star Wars were shit, and although technologically advanced for the time, it sill had many limitations.
>>78048328
It's funny how for about the first 30 seconds of that you can actually see them do things inspired by the traditional forms for Katana and Yen, and then they just abandon it for the impossible to follow flying around bits.
>>78074522
And I apparently didn't know how to spell Jian, but whatever. I'd only ever heard it said.
