Why have so few cartoons portrayed a gay character as respectfully and likable as The Simpsons did 25 years ago? Even later episodes of The Simpsons made gay characters walking stereotypes.
>>78007107
>Even later episodes of The Simpsons made gay characters walking stereotypes.
Granted, that was kind of the point of that episode.
>>78007107
You sure do treat your comedy cartoons like serious business.
>>78007107
Most cartoons are either for kids which can't show gays (because think of the children) or are comedies, usually more interested in a cheap laugh than anything more complex.
>>78007107
They actually asked Karl's VA to come back and reprise the character. he refused when he saw that they only wanted Karl back so he could become Homer's Gay friend
>>78007107
Good Writing.
>>78008007
What does that have to do with anything?
Everything with gay characters is as good as everything else with gay characters. Shame on you for implying otherwise.
>>78007107
you know you can kiss a guy and pat his ass without being gay right
>>78007107
He was gay?
>>78007107
Why does a gay character *need* to be portrayed respectfully or likeable? Gays can be ignorant and unlikable dicks too.
I think a lot of it had to do with Harvey Fierstein having an unreasonably-intimidating voice.
>>78008683
It's not so much that they NEED to it's just that there really aren't many.
>>78008683
I think he was getting at portrayed as more 3 dimensional than what we see now where all the gays are like stereotypes out of a bad rom com
>>78007171
Aqui viene lo bueno jovenes!
I'm not american but it seems that gay culture itself has taken a turn for the flagrant and loud nature, so I guess the show wanted to reflect that. If rainbow parades consisted of refined properly dressed gentlemen even I'd go see it.
>>78009124
I'm pretty sure fragrant and loud has been the stereotype for gays since the 30s.
>>78009159
I think scared and in denial sounds more common.
>>78008683
Now that I think about it has there ever been a cartoon with a completely unlikable gay cartoon? The only example I can think of is Mr.Garrison from South Park.
>>78009159
until the AIDS panic it made gays outright trendy
>>78009213
Roger from American Dad is pure agony every second he's on screen.
>>78009213
The gay couple on American Dad
>>78007495
Good call, him being a one off made him feel better, like Hank Scorpio. Which is weird that they made a new villain for the movie, but with the same VA.
>>78009213
>>78009261
Neither of those characters are really gay though. Both their sexual orientation and gender change pretty much depending on what's funniest at the time.
Karl was a good character who we had to be told was gay, rather than being a good gay character.
Back then it was easier to do that without their sexuality being a defining trait. It's worse now, because you feel like that has to be such a big part of who they are, not necessarily for comedic effect, but to announce to everyone you have a gay person and it's a good thing.
Look at Smithers. His homosexuality, and lust for his elderly boss, was fairly muted at first before he became more of a token gay. Same with Mr. Largo, who showed virtually no signs of it.
>>78007107
A lot of characters don't have their sexual preference come up so who's to say that they aren't gay? You're assuming all the non-flamboyant characters are straight and spreading your heteronormative agenda shitlord
Because cartoons are either for kids or comedy.
If it's for kids they're probably not bringing up gays in the first place.
If it's a comedy they're obviously going to make gay jokes.
>>78007107
Because people like stereotypes.
Its the sad reality of modern society. I saw it last year when my country had a referendum on gay marriage. The way it was sold to the public was "be nice to gays because they're all camp and lovely" and it stuck.
ITs the same with race relations, "black twitter" and "ghetto memes" are have permeated, white, middle class culture while black music took decades to be accepted.
The fact remains, if you want your social/political/ethnic group to be accepted by the wider community then you must learn to embrace crude stereotypes, even if it means sacrificing integrity on the alter of public opinion.
>>78009312
not as weird as having Arnorld in the movie instead of Reinier Wolfcastle
>>78009426
I always chose to ignore that.
>>78009312
>tfw when you'll never have a boss/friend like Hank Scorpio
why live
>>78009418
Unfortunately the next step up from being demonised is being belittled
Did Danny DeVito ever come back for a third Herb appearance? His story had a great loop with just two
>>78007495
It was worse than that. They wanted him to introduce Homer to the three stereotypical gays from the episode.
Harvey Fierstein asked, "why not iust have Homer move in with Karl and his partner?" before realizing they just wanted a real gays stamp of approval for their shitty episode.
>>78008366
Is that what your dad told you to make sure you wouldn't snitch on him?
because the average gay is a limp-wrist prissy milquetoast fat assed fruitcake who talks like they never had a dad growing up
not respectable
>>78009643
He left a voicemail on Homers machine in a later episode.
>Homer, its Herb. I'm broke again. Send money.
And that was it.
>>78009818
ah, so ruined in a very efficient manner then
>>78009124
The parades don't involve those gays. They sit at home in their jumpers and make homemade jam.
There's a lot of resentment from certain groups towards the flamboyant sections of the gay community which are from a time where it was important to exert identity and sexuality against repression. It's a dinosaur. Hence traditional gay clubs dying out, that and Grindr.
>>78009818
I thought it was they needed some place to send the kids and when they called Herb he was all: Yeah, I'd love too! Just so you know, I'm not rich any more...
>>78007195
>Most cartoons are either for kids which can't show gays (because think of the children)
lol okay disney and nickelodeon if you say so
>>78009124
>If rainbow parades consisted of refined properly dressed gentlemen even I'd go see it.
Well uh.
Then it wouldn't a parade.
>>78009606
Everybody is to be belittled sooner or later, the sooner it comes the easier it's to laugh at yourself
>>78009887
>The parades don't involve those gays. They sit at home in their jumpers and make homemade jam.
>There's a lot of resentment from certain groups towards the flamboyant sections of the gay community which are from a time where it was important to exert identity and sexuality against repression. It's a dinosaur. Hence traditional gay clubs dying out, that and Grindr.
Bull. Shit. If you look at pics of gay rights marches from the 60s, it was just normal-looking people walking around and waving protest signs. You didn't see the Folsom Street Fair shit happen until a later date.
>>78009085
Trabajamos, Y NOS DIVERTIMOS
>>78009085
>¡Todos ustedes están enfermos!
>Y no es gripa, gordito
>>78007171
As much as I like that episode, it was contrived as all hell.
>>78008683
He more means portraying them as normal people, rather than using their homosexuality as their defining trait.
>>78015359
It's their own damn fault by basing their entire identity as a person around who they fuck.
>>78008683
>Why does a gay character *need* to be portrayed respectfully or likeable?
Because it's racism to do otherwise. Or sexism. Or transphobia.
Whichever of those.
Now, Hollywood has done a very good job of selling a lot of people (especially women) a coat of brainwash that all gays are nice cutesy monogamous couples who live in an overdecorated apartment with a Shi Tzu when if you knew what they really do with each other, you'd lose your lunch.
>>78007107
>>78007495
Karl pretty much is a walking stereotype, just not one OP is familiar with.
What made the character work was that he wasn't sidelined or used for comedy like Smithers or whoever, he was just given a thoughtful storyline in which he was a central figure. His sexuality played no part in that story.
>>78009418
That's the way everything is sold. You don't say "vote for us because we'd sell your bones for glue and then steal the glue and huff the glue while we raped your loved ones to death in a pay livestream", because you'd never get elected. You make like you're nice and people forget to look up all the shitty things you undoubtedly said again and again before you were trying to win an election.
Heck, you don't say "Lucky Charms are garbage that aren't even pleasant to eat and will give you the diabeetus as part of a balanced diet because you'll never balance your diet you stupid fuck you never even look at that app you installed", you say "Pink hearts, yellow moons, even whoit doimonds!" instead. And every other cereal that's the exact same crap with different moldings and box art says something equally ludicrous.
Life's a turd. You're a dung beetle.
>>78009213
Mr Garrison is a likeable character, just not a person you'd want to know in real life
>>78015491
So I lived with this girl in college who got this package one day, and she wasn't there so I signed for it and when she got in, I pointed it out to her and she launched straight into opening it up. It was a six-inch buttplug. I don't mean long (it probably was that long) and I don't mean circumference - I mean diameter. A six-inch diameter buttplug. The whole time she's opening it up she's talking and I'm not really listening until I see this thing and I'm like "what is that horrible blue plastic lump" and then I saw the big ol' thing of lube she'd ordered with it and the last couple of minutes kind of swam into focus.
Apparently her boyfriend was super into anal, but the last buttplug wasn't satisfying any more. I never asked if it was for him or for her.
tl;dr If you really knew what anybody was doing you'd lose you lunch. There's a rapist living in your town. There's only-just teen prostitutes, male and female and indeterminate (at least to look) probably within 20 miles of you. If you live in a city, they're no more than a couple of miles away. Someone probably owns them. There's restaurants where slaves serve your food and work in the kitchens; a guy I was at school with was convicted of trafficking human beings a few years back, along with his brother and about six other people. The only reason I know is because I happened to see the trial report. Nobody else ever mentioned it, and yeah, it did make me feel sick to think this guy I'd been buddies with was a slaver irl.
Everything is broken when you look at it long and hard enough.
>>78017529
>>78017529
Everyone's kinda fucked up basically
>>78017683
Also, one man's nightmarish fucked up-edness is another man's casual Friday night.
>>78009331
Eh, Mr Garrison could easily be pansexual.
True about Roger, though.
>>78013720
>Folsom Street Fair
I still don't get how that thing even gets allowed. Like from a porn perspective it's pretty hot but in actuality that's not something that should be happening in public.
>>78019180
>I still don't get how that thing even gets allowed
It's San Franpsycho. A few years ago, Nancy Pelosi said that she didn't see any problem with the FSF. Now this is a woman who also back in the early 2000s attended a Gay Pride Week rally in SF that featured NAMBLA banners.
But then, she does have to cater to her main voting constituents.
>>78013720
>if you look at pics of gay rights marches from the 60s, it was just normal-looking people walking around and waving protest signs
We had a gay parade in my hometown in Italy last summer and it was just regular people in street clothes waving a rainbow flag. The leather degeneracy parade stuff must be unique to America.
>>78013720
Gays back then wanted to be tolerated. Now they demand you embrace them.
>>78019180
>>78019271
As someone who lived in both New Orleans and SF, there's nothing that happened at Folsom Street Fair that didn't happen during Mardi Gras.
He was gay? I thought he just wanted Homer to succeed?
>>78019953
Fags gonna fag no matter where they are.
> Zzzzzzzzz-ap!
>>78009213
>implying you can stump the garrison
Found the shilldog.
>>78020258
>We work hard. We play hard.
>>78007107
>Even later episodes of The Simpsons made gay characters walking stereotypes.
Because gays made big stereotype spectacles out of themselves, they complete abandoned the perception of being normal and respectful.
>>78017529
There are some straight people who are degenerates, however the biggest slut on the planet can't top the typical fag for sheer number of partners and participation in extreme sex acts.
>>78009353
>Look at Smithers. His homosexuality, and lust for his elderly boss, was fairly muted at first before he became more of a token gay
To be fair, it started out as an exaggeration of the typical corporate sycophant. Gradually it became less "hah, typical suckup... okay, he's going too far" and more "yep he's definitely gay for him"
>>78017393
N I C E !
>>78007107
because homosexuality is a psycho-sexual disorder
>>78009788
Say that shit around my hood and you're gonna get your dick sucked.
>>78017529
>so sheltered they put sex toys and androgynous people on the same level as rapists and human traffickers
>>78007107
For the respectfully part, writers have no reason to make characters gay, except to make gay jokes
>>78009213
They make the point that there's a big difference between him and gay people though.
Besides he then becomes trans and then a lesbian and then a dude with an undetermined sexual orientation.
>>78017529
>in your town
My "town"?
Anon, I live in a big city, not some arcadian paradise in the middle of nowhere, like you may think. Every hour is rush hour, rats flood the streets like it were the Middle Ages and crime rates are ever on the rise like a perpetual motion machine. What, am I supposed to be impressed by anything you posted?
>town
don't give me that bucolic crap
Because cartoons aimed at adults can't waste time developing a gay character, otherwise they'd lose the majority of their gay jokes. Adult animation is overwhelmingly centered around comedy of a cruder variety nowadays, and the average adult cartoon watcher watches for absurdity and crassness. Well-written gay characters like Raymond Holt from B99 won't work in animation, because that's not what the audience wants. So producers never bother to try. Fucking hell, the Simpsons did an episode tackling fat acceptance that was nothing more than an excuse to make fat jokes for 15+ minutes of the runtime, rather than actually discussing the concept or its practitioners.
>>78017393
>Karl pretty much is a walking stereotype
>>78008683
>>78008971
definitely. I like Captain Holt from Nine-Nine like this, his first furthermost trait is the fact he's a serious stick in the mud.
>>78009213
Mr. Garrison wants to fuck all the immigrants to death.....he's a GOAT character to say the least.
>>78020067
He was, but again he didn't really make a big deal out of that. That's what we liked about Karl.
