>>77979278
Alias and Jessica Drew are an example of that. You have this goofy silver age mind control villian but his effects on people is real hardcore shit.

I love Alan Moore's writing. It's utterly fantastic.

>>77979278
I didn't catch the last thread regretfully. I think both extremes have their place today. Sometimes I want to read the mindless exploitations of silver age heroes or pop culture icons. Sometimes I want to read something that challenges my thinking in a new way. People normally wouldn't attribute the latter to comics. But comics have become a good medium to explore the consequences of what I consider very pulpy science fiction topics. They can take really silly things, drop them into the real world, and then explore the consequences very seriously.

Speaking of Moore, I've finally been reading before watchmen and the minuteman line had some really dark introspective and scary topics. Poor nite owl is just an average Joe who's life becomes tormented over time simply because he wants to help people. It's really depressing and simultaneously really turns me off from reading things like justice league or superman.

A couple of points: in regards to Bond, Fleming presentshim as a cold thug and a necessary evil. Moore seems to have misread him in more or less the same way as fans who sympathize with Rorshack misread that character.
As far as Tarzan goes, he is raised by apes who dance and have rituals and shit. His inherant nobility is no more far fetched than that. I mean sure you can toss the whole thing out as absurd, but picking and choosing the elements you want to remove to suit your political agenda is kind of bullshit, imo.
But when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

>>77979278
Has Moore never read any 007? His analysis of Bond is very shallow, to say the least. You only need to read the prologue of Goldfinger to see that Bond is indeed just a gun who could think about the implications of his actions but would rather not. Flemming himself already says this in the actual novel, Moore.

>>77979568
Moore seems to be commenting more on the films/there perception remember, only a few years after he wrote this we have M calling a relic of the cold war and folks asking if he can drown away all the blood in women and martinis.

It's a very Yes And attitude, you respect the original work, not by i ver writing it, but treating it as it is.

Like how totally Fucking horrific Clone Wars was.

>>77979568

How would dancing and rituals and shit perclude them from ape Fucking and eating non ape meat like any other apes, including ourselves?

I mean, Tarzan was probably swimming in ape cooze

>>77979800
It presents them as having a higher level of culture. It doesn't preclude that stuff, but it doesn't make that stuff automatic either. In fact, it increases the possibility that Tarzan woukd be more thoughtful. There are dudes on this very board who have turned down sex with humans, after all, and lots of kids who won't eat random shit for all manner of reasons.
Nothing is automatic.

>>77980053
To take it a bit further, apes, chimps and Gorrilas are far, far stronger physically than humans. This has nothing to do with their living conditions. It is all down to the way their muscles work. There is no way that a human could over power an ape of similar size,,even if he was raised by them. So if we're going to "get real" why not focus on the physical absurdity of Tarzan? as I said Tarzan is just fucking absurd, picking and choosing which elements of that absurdity to condenm him with is a purely political activity.
I mean why not talk about the bulshit way he tought himself to read?

>>77980053
But I do think it's right to actually go off the raised by apes thing rather than just use it as a plot excuse and not actually deal with the cultural differences he has.

I mean, ape culture is a real thing, and it is very rich, and yes it is full of ape Fucking.

I mean, having Tarzan as a five ever alone because he is pink and ugly and can't pull in any ape stacies is a good way to work it, but also given Humans have an evolved larger penises and mating times he could be the Hyper Chad Thunder dicklord of all apes.

>>77980218
Sure. I don't disagree. I just think Moore has a pretty simplistic view of things.
I guess I don't see Tarzan's abstinence from ape sex as any more crazy than him kicking a lion's ass with hus bare hands or visiting the Earth's Core.

>>77980212
Wasn't Tarzan weaker than apes but stronger than humans?

Also wasn't his higher human intellect letting him Batman through fights with tougher opponents?

Also he would be really good at ape Fucking. He would quickly monopolize sex leading to tribe population decreasing a bit because once you go Human there aint no other doing

>>77980312
Yeah, he pulls a couple of bullshit wrestling moves, to beat the ape leader, iirc.
I am not saying you're wrong, but as you point out we could comeup with a ton of reasons why Tarzan is the ape fuck king or the ape wizard. Sophistication has nothing to do with it. It is all bullshit,realisticallu they would have eathen his limey ass before he could even walk.

>>77980417
*ugh sorry for the typos. I'm on a tablet.

>>77980417
the fact we even think of.it IS the sophistication. it's the same attitude that got Furman and Hama all out on toy commercial s

>>77980212
>I mean why not talk about the bulshit way he tought himself to read?

Moore doesn't say it in the forward where OP's quote comes from, but Philip Jose Farmer was a huge Tarzan fan. Farmer did a lot of stories involving either Tarzan or a Tarzan stand-in. And sometimes when he used a stand-in it was to cast a critical eye when he really couldn't do it with Tarzan. The part Moore talked about, for example, was done with a Tarzan analogue instead.

Farmer's book Lord Tyger had a jungle man Ras Tyger (who appears to have a backstory with similarties to Tarzan) slowly finding out his world is not what it seems. The twist is it turns out his whole life had been manipulated by a crazy Tarzan fanboy/millionaire who was so obsessed with making a real-life Tarzan, that he kidnapped the kid of a noble couple (three times. even) and have him raised in the jungle. First attempt: Kid dies of pneumonia. Second attempt: Apes don't have a spoken language so the second kid grows up to be mentally disabled. Third attempt: the millionaire just hires circus midgets and dresses them up as apes and tell them to raise the third kid, who eventually became Ras Tyger.

There was even a part where the fanboy tries to recreate the part where Tarzan learned how to read by leaving books out in the ruined house, but when Ras looked at the books, he got more interested in the pictures and tried to learn how to draw. So the fanboy just agreed to let the midgets teach Ras how to read and write instead.

>>77981252
were can .read this onlne sounds based

>>77981007
No more so than any other examination of the suspension of disbelif, which predates Tarzan.

>>77981556
Lord Tyger has a digital edition up on Amazon, but I'm not sure where else to find it online.

>>77981715
so does he fuck the ape midgets?

>>77981735
Moore liked the book apparently, so it is a safe bet.

>>77981735
>>77981794

No, that didn't happen in Ras Tyger. There was sex in Ras Tyger but I don't recall it involving the midgets.

But the actual book that Moore might be referring to is A Feast Unknown, which has a different Tarzan analogue named Lord Grandrith. The book also has a Doc Savage analogue, Doc Caliban. (Doc Savage is Farmer's second favorite pulp hero, I'd guess)

A Feast Unknown is that there's a secret cabal of nine immortals, and they have a serum that extends life, but there are periods where the serum-taker goes mad for a temporary period. One of the people who took the serum becomes Jack the Ripper. He goes on to rape his sister-in-law. That sister-in-law gives birth to Lord Grandrith while in the jungle with her husband. The guy who became Jack the Ripper comes to his senses as the side effect passes, and he felt so guilty over his crimes that he fled to America and changed his name to Caliban, and has a son named James Caliban Jr whom he instills zealous moral values. Caliban Jr fights crime as Doc Caliban. So yes, this makes Grandrith and Caliban half-brothers.

When Grandrith and Caliban are adults, the nine approach them and give them the immortality serum. What they don't know is that the nine were secretly manipulating things so that Grandrith and Caliban would eventually fight one another to the death--They make Caliban think his cousin was killed by Grandrith to drive Caliban to kill the jungle lord.

A Feast Unknown is really, really over the top with the sex and violence. At one point, Grandrith, who's on the run, kills a guy who was trying to kill him. Grandrith guts the guy and eats his liver or something like that. I think that's what Moore was referring to in the quote above. Another part in the book is Grandrith talking briefly about his relationship with his female leopard pet while away from his wife for so long.

>>77982378
Also when Farmer wrote the biographies of Tarzan and Doc Savage sometime later, he didn't really use stuff from A Feast Unknown. For starters Savage and Tarzan are cousins according to Farmer's Wold Newton family tree, as opposed to half-brothers like Caliban and Grandrith. And Farmer names a character from a Sherlock Holmes story as being Doc Savage's father, so Clark Savage Sr isn't Jack the Ripper.

>>77984696
I mean, in a way they're still cousins, but by law

>>77982378
My googlesays the billuonare was disgusted with Tigers sexuality. who was he Fucking

>>77982378
>Eating the liver of a non Herbivore

You Fucking die of iron posioning