So what are the motavations of female characters
Making female characters i know you make them like any person,
>>77852110
what
>>77852168 do female characters have different motavations?
What are they
My phone was fucking up
>>77852110
>So what are the motavations of female characters
being stronk while either keeping it soft and classy or you can be a hack and make them smack fat pervs
>>77852110
Wealth, power, fame, sex, love, justice, vengeance, holiday cheer. You know, whatever.
>>77852110
>>77852217
Ah yes but have you ever decided to want go do look more like?
Try to make a good character, one with strengths, weaknesses, desires, goals, fears, etc. The "female" should come secondary - if the fact that she is a woman comes up first in your description of her then you did not design her properly.
>>77852110
>So what are the motavations of female characters
>Making female characters i know you make them like any person, do female characters have different motavations?
fixed that for you?
>>77852446
This entirely.
Unless you really want her gender to define her character.
>>77852415
>>77852217
Your phone ain't the only thing fucking up.
>>77852217
>Do female characters have different motivations?
No. There's only so many different forces that serve to motivate someone. You're an idiot, and you need to learn how people work.
>>77852110
What ever is the motivation of anyone at all, real or fictional? What objective reason there is not to just in bed all day?
>>77852490
No bed sores? Food?
You gotta take a piss and don't want to have to clean your sheets later?
>>77852525
Boco, I have been wearing the same pee-stained pants for like a whole month.
You shut the fuck up.
Depends on the female character.
>>77852446
Society does treat men and women differently, so just like race, physical fitness, hobbies, career, and so on, it's something that probably shouldn't be decided arbitrarily, and it should play into how the character developed into the person they are.
>>77852446
This, pretty much.
>>77852485
Taking it pretty aggresively anon
There's a 90% chance a female's backstory involves rape, as opposed to only a 30% chance a male's does. [/Millar]
>>77852904
>WAAAAH, SOMEONE IS BEING AGGRESSIVE ON 4CHAN
>MOOOOOOOOOOOOM
Shut your fucking mouth, you crybaby piece of shit.
>>77853295
Nice projecting
>>77852446
>>77852472
>>77852799
I don't care how many times you say it. At no point in the history of fucking ever has that ever worked and the only people who thinks it works or makes any sense are idiots.
>>77853374
give us some examples
>>77853403
Examples of people doing the "make character first make it a female second" or what.
I dont' understand.
Are you actually trying to ask a rhetorical question?
>>77853374
But those are what make a good character. If they have traits people like or even relate as well as have a mind of their own they are good characters. If they are female then the character is a good female character, why is this so hard to understand?
>>77852678
Gotta agree with this guy. It shouldn't be secondary to her motivations, her motivations should be a consequence to the life she has led and her background in general.
Let her goals/motivations then flow out of that.
>>77853374
>>77853469
>apes out and yells "YOU'RE ALL WRONG"
>pussies out when someone tells you to prove your "point"
>>77853469
>At no point in the history of fucking ever has that ever worked
Examples of when the specific method that you are arguing against does not give the results that first anon claimed. Examples of that not working, as you described.
Just make a character like >>77852446 said and then switch the gender to female. Boom, you've written a good female character and people will ask "but how?"
That's my secret, captain. I'm always writing male characters.
>>77853490
No a good character isn't a fist full of cheap as fuck traits. That's a checklist.
A good character grows organically from the story you want to tell.
Or changes as the story needs.
You're not designing good characters, you're designing a product meant to sell. And anyone who follows that line of reasoning is doing a piss poor job of it.
>>77853616
>No a good character isn't a fist full of cheap as fuck traits.
That's not what Anon described.
>>77853534
>>77853556
>>77853598
For all of the times I've heard you guys say this shit, you've never, not once shown a single fucking instance of it working. Not once.
You want me to show you an instance of it not working? Korra, Toph, the graveyard or AWESOME TUFF FEMALES that is 99% of all women in sci-fantasy today.
Go on, show me an example of this shit working. Bonus points if they aren't a silent stand in for the reader/viewer/player.
>>77853374
Except pretty much every good female character ever.
Gender can affect a character, but it never works well when it's his/her defining trait.
>>77853717
>Go on, show me an example of this shit working.
It's hard to name well-written female characters in general. Try to name a good one that IS strongly affected by her gender.
Also, Toph was fine. Good, even. She had her own opinions, morivations, faults, and insecurities. Korra would have been a great character if her story didn't bend over to accomodate her failures instead of forcing her to overcome them.
>>77853717
>Korra, Toph, the graveyard or AWESOME TUFF FEMALES that is 99% of all women in sci-fantasy today.
This is subjective as I think Toph is fine (don't see a problem with her), but here's the thing. You have to show us a situation in which that method has been used. Meaning, show us a time where you know that a creator made traits, backstory, personality, etc, first, and then made that character female. That's what we're saying. I guess it's a bit unfair since we're asking you not to look at the shows themselves but the making of them as well. But when you make overarching assumptions like that you put yourself on the spot. It sounds like you're just mad at "strong female characters." And to be fair, Korra was a bad character period.
>Go on, show me an example of this shit working. Bonus points if they aren't a silent stand in for the reader/viewer/player.
I would say Toph, since she was a male first and kept most of her personality and traits. Almost all, if not all characters from FMA, and I'm confident in that remark. I'm other anons will have some more
>>77853929
>Almost all, if not all characters from FMA
Aw shit, we got an anon with good taste! Mah nigga.
>>77853901
>>77853777
>>77853712
Write some traits down
Say it's a woman
Character finished. Time to collect my pacheck and accolades from the audience.
>>77853901
You can't fucking name ONE. What does that say.
Secondly Toph fucking sucked and was only accepted because she was the poor little blind loli who's super tuff! A cheap archetype that fucking losers love and was rendered a dull as fuck trope decades ago.
Korra? She's toph except as a sighted young woman. What's that? People hate her?
Well holy shit!
That was totally unexpected.
Oh and people hated adult Toph too? WOOOOOOOW
>>77853929
Toph was not liked by the target audience and only sad queers with a wierd boner for wierd tomboyish and bitchy preteen and teen girls here dug her.
Think I'm kidding? How many people liked adult toph or posts pictures of her here.
How many people like teen toph aka korra.
NONE WOOOOOOOW
And here's the thing, I held up MY end of the fucking bargain. You even admit it. YOU have to show me examples of this being done and working.
Else it's just some retarded feminist meme that wannabe loser writers on the net keep flinging around
>>77852485
>>77852904
You responded to a really obvious troll. You should be ashamed.
>>77853717
>For all of the times I've heard you guys say this shit, you've never, not once shown a single fucking instance of it working. Not once.
Ellen Ripley.
>>77854297
>Toph was not liked by the target audience
You keep saying these things you're so sure of, yet provide no proof of what you say. Where is the proof that this was the case? If your proof is 4chan pictures, then you need to broaden your scope.
>You even admit it.
No, I said we were asking for a lot from you, but that's the argument you chose.
>YOU have to show me examples of this being done and working.
I can and have provided one example where it did work (Toph) and another example where I am assuming that that what's the creator did, because, like I said, you can't really know how a character was conceived unless you do some digging. I know Toph was male originally, which supports my argument. I don't know if Arakawa made her characters trait-first.
I don't know what the fuck you're trying to say but their motivation is getting into other female characters' pants.
...ok I'm kidding, but look really, you're best of writing a male character and switching them to female at the end, especially for a lot of cartoons there's no difference and it's actually better if you assume there's no difference. If you're writing about a woman in the early 1900s fighting for the right to vote or something sure, there, gender matters, but for most things? It doesn't fucking matter.
Airbender genderswapped Toph and Azula at the last minute and look how much praise they got for that. Also look at how much it doesn't matter what the fuck gender those characters were.
>>77852485
You're wrong. There are plenty of stories in which femininity is a motivation.
>>77852110
They need to do way instain mother
>>77853523
It all depends on how you want to write it really. If it's important you have a selfish, petty character you can easily go back and figure what background makes them so.
>>77854297
Ripley is easily one of the most beloved/iconic female protagonists of all time and people LOVE Toph, she was pretty much the most popular character when the show was airing, and Azula was very, very well received too. I don't know what the fuck you're on about.
>>77855124
I can't tell what he's after here honestly. Just arguing to argue I suppose.
>>77855214
Probably.
I am so frustrated at how often this subject comes up without people realizing the answer.
Give Goku boobs.
Change nothing about his story arc or character, except making Chichi a guy all of a sudden (or you could leave her as a girl; whatever.)
Bam. You have the coveted strong female character.
It's simplicity itself.
>But Goku's a dumb-dumb thoooo
SO FUCKING WHAT. You want a character that is invincible from social justice mob criticism? You'll never attain that. Why are you seeking it, stupid?
>>77854531
That's not the same thing.
See, they decided to use ellen ripley from the alien movie instead of the guy she ends up banging...what's his face.
That's not doing what you said. That's replacing one character with another character.
By the way, every single fucking alien movie after that BOMBED.
>>77854662
You keep saying that da kids love toph, when i've never not once heard or seen anyone even mention this character outside of adults and loser internet queers.
And those adults fell for the tuff loli archetype that she fell into. Not the character herself. Think I'm kidding?
No one liked adult Toph.
No one liked Korra and she's just Toph but she can see now.
>>77855124
Only on the net and with losers. Once she grew out of cute loli/pedo bait form the freaks who liked her scattered.
No one gives a shit about Azula either.
>>77853616
you do realize what I said covers all of what you are implying?
>>77855660
>No one gives a shit about Azula either.
Dude, stop. Just stop. This is getting kind of sad now.
>>77855660
>No one gives a shit about Azula either.
Don't tell me you're serious.
>>77853717
Fine. Tina Belcher.
>>77852110
>make character
>foes gender matter to this character?
>if yes chooae said gender
>if no then just choose who feels aestheticly appealing
Wallah
Git gud op
>>77853374
this
every good character is affected by his/her gender if you don`t put that in the equation you get a really weak character
>>77853901
>Try to name a good one that IS strongly affected by her gender.
Lyta Hall.
>>77857417
>good character
>her
There's no such thing as a good female character.
Females are inherently uninteresting.
>>77855124
>Ripley
>beloved
Xenomorphs are beloved. Ripley was hot in the first movie.
>>77857417
That's a pretty sweeping statement, especially in genre fiction where a character might have no gender or gender might mean something vastly different because the character is a robot/alien/robot alien or whatever.
This is a case by case basis thing.
The issue is people are different. Also female characters written by men and male characters written by women get a lot of flack because they're based on an outsider's stereotype of the opposite gender and they don't ring true.
But really, no one character is going to reflect the exerpiences of everyone of the gender. You might say something about kids is a women thing, but it's increasingly common for women not to have kids, meanwhile of course some men want to be dads, it all depends.
You'll find the most success trying to write characters as individuals first. That goes for other races or whatever else too.
You could ask if, say, Toph is effected by her gender. Maybe? Because her parents might be more protective of her because she's a girl. But ironically in that case her blindness, her disability is a much bigger factor. But also not her defining factor. Why did they character work?
Just make it a good character, no matter what gender/race they are apart of. I'm sick of people thinking female characters need to be
>Absolutely TUFF
>"I ain't need no man!"
>"OH MY GOD, AND SHE WAS LIKE"
and other stereotypical bullshit. It's not that hard guys. A good character is shaped by their traits, flaws, and quirks. Not by which gender they are. Just think how you would write a strong guy character. While a female character may look different and have some minor different views, it's pretty much the same thing. Just make them cool. That's all dat mattahs.
>>77853403
i'm not that anon but i can give a few
madam bovary
tenar- earthsea
halima- alamut
rosaura_life is dream
i can be all day but we can also include every female character in kierkegaard, sartre, wilde, calderon, etc etc
>>77854297
>Write some traits down
>Say it's a woman
>Character finished. Time to collect my pacheck and accolades from the audience.
Skip the second step and the result is the same. A shit character is a shit character, a good one is a good one. Gender is inconsequential.
As for examples, the only good female characters I can think of off the top of my head are the cast of SU, and Pearl's the only one who's traditionally feminine at all. And even then, she's a gay soldier.
>>77857709
All are shit.
Let's be honest, the only good characters in classic literature are all male.
>bovary
This is fucking bait.
>>77857845
>rosaura
>shit
please leave
>>77857895
>liking a shitty character like Rosaura
Yep, this is definitely bait.
>>77858004
you don't even know who she is right?
>>77855279
>Give Goku boobs.
Sounds great.
>making Chichi a guy all of a sudden (or you could leave her as a girl; whatever.)
Chichi's primary motivation is to breed herself with a physically powerful man, and raise one son to be a genius. She would not be gay with Goku.
>But Goku's a dumb-dumb thoooo
He's a bumpkin. He was home schooled how to fight, farm, and read, and that's it. He's of average intelligence.
>>77858053
>HURR U CRITICIZE MUH CHARACTER U DUN KNOW WHO SHE IS
She's an incredibly bland character. But of course a shit-eater who likes Madame Bovary would like her.
>>77858126
>She's an incredibly bland character
yeah you don't know who she is
>>77857594
That's not a sweeping statement.
That's a fucking fact.
Period.
You bringing up instances where a character doesn't have a gender means nothing. They are the exceptions not the rules. Even in the work you're citing.
Okay then.
What gender is Mystique. It was born as a blue boy, changed to a blue female when it gained it's mutant shape shifting abilities and has been every sex(yeah yeah I know just go with it) and is 100% pansexual.
What gender is it?
>>77858156
>y-you just don't know
Fuck off already, idiot.
If that's your definition of "good female character" I'm glad males get so much spotlight.
>>77858164
>It was born as a blue boy
wait a fucking second! mystique was born a boy?!!
>>77858217
>Fuck off already, idiot.
don't get mad bro, chill out ,tell us why rosaura is a bland character
>>77858243
Mystique can impregnate women with her powers, and get pregnant. What is she?
>>77858348
Would be too damn hard, because I find easier to remember interesting personality traits which she doesn't have. Or any personality traits beyond the most generic at all for that matter.
>>77858348
he doesn`t know who she is, only spaniards read la vida es sueño
>>77858449
i don`t know, but if she was born male, to me she's a trans guy who can make funtional wombs, wich is freaky as fuck
>>77858643
Only Amerikekolds assume people didn't read things based on nationality
>people seriously imply women could ever be interesting
The only time women are good in literature is when they are secondary characters who don't take up too much time.
All the best characters in all of fiction are male and that's an axiom. Males allow for better stories, more varied and believable characterizations and could actually be charming and appealing to the reader, something women are incapable of.
Deal with it, you know it to be true.
>>77858499
no one will think less of you if you don`t know who rosaura is anon, you don`t have to keep lying
>>77858834
C'mon man, I don't like throwing the s-word around that often but that is incredibly sexist. If that were true then the Hunger Games trilogy wouldn't have done as well as it would have.
>>77858834
I admire your edginess, but there are indeed good female characters.
>>77858915
>keeps riding that shitty meme
She is bland, motherfucker.
Admit it, you have shit taste. You believe Madame Bovary has good characters and that any Earthsea (why would anyone even read that beyond wanting to know how bad it is, anyway?) garbage character is even remotely good.
You just have shit taste.
>>77858934
Fuck off, Crapper.
>>77858998
>edginess
Yeah. Any opinion you don't agree with is "edgy"
Males can be anyone. ANY-FUCKING-ONE Prince Myshkin, Kris Kelvin, Vladimir Dubrovsky, Wilhelm Tell, Judge Holden, etc and it would always feel natural.
Women can either be waifubait/writer's wish fullfillment or bland/obnoxious characters.
>>77859111
This material is getting kind of stale.
>>77852110
You said it yourself. The same ones you give a man. The uniquely female motivations like "get a rich husband" would just make your character unlikable.
>>77859216
>le bait meme
Keep running from the truth.
This is such a /v/ thread
On /v/ it would be "Why do you prefer to play as female?" with a smug anime girl in the OP
>>77857536
Who the fuck loves xenomorphs? They're one of the shittiest villains in all of cinema, if not all of fiction.
>HURR THEY JUST MINDLESS BEASTS SO SCARY
The Thing did it better anyway.
>>77861810
Have a look.
https://desustorage.org/_/search/boards/aco.co/text/xeno/type/op/order/asc/
>>77861865
Waifufags are not human.
>>77859384
>This is such a /v/ thread
There's the aspie shitposters, there's the tripfags and namefags, there's bait posts, shitty opinions, and SJW/sexism name calling
I think we're all set
>>77853374
>At no point in the history of fucking ever has that ever worked
Female Commander Shepard.
>>77863026
*Saints Row 2 Boss.
FTFY
>>77857417
I can't think of a single good character who was notably affected by his/her gender.
Is it sexist that I made a character who is a mother, first and foremost? Her whole main agenda is giving her young son a chance to grow up happy and away from a terrible influence. Oh, and she also happens to be a scientist.
>>77863471
Not at all.
>>77863471
depends how many other women are in your story.
If every woman in your story is defined by traditionally feminine things, seems like you've got an agenda.
If you got a breadth of women each with their own goals and interests, you'll be more than fine
>>77863471
>>77863553
Being a parent isn't tied to gender, anyway.
I offer no solutions, but I find this topic interesting, /co/ is way more progressive than /a/, a board that is inherently sexist and misogynistic, yet they have a lot less trouble with the theme of "strong female characters," as whole in comparison.
![[Coalgirls]_Serial_Experiments_Lain_08_(1008x720_Blu-Ray_FLAC)_[2E0ED7B4].mkv_snapshot_19.22_[2010.11.26_22.24.07].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/eNM89zk.jpg "[Coalgirls]_Serial_Experiments_Lain_08_(1008x720_Blu-Ray_FLAC)_[2E0ED7B4].mkv_snapshot_19.22_[2010.11.26_22.24.07].jpg")
>>77863771
you need less commas and either a period or a semicolon
assuming i read your wannabe run-on sentence correctly, anime has more strong females because most Japanese boys identify with girl characters anyway
>>77852110
Why do girls pretend to like comic books and cartoons?
>>77863906
No, no. Anime has more strong females because Japan is better at fetishizing them than we are (with less backlash for doing so).
>>77864908
Nah. Japan has really regressive female roles which are demanded by retarded beta babies. Look at any shounen title how female characters are always ground down into stereotupes and sidelined over time. Most start out fairly egalitarian but end up with insurmountable power-level differences that effectively remove female characters.
>>77863632
Parents are mostly not so interesting, though. They are mostly mundane and limited, or they are not primarily parents.
>>77852110
>>77852217
>do female characters have different motavations?
Possibly, not always.
There are motivations that are more typical for men or women, but most of them are pretty unisex.
>>77855124
Ripley for instance is written slightly differently than a male would, I believe, her badasness is protective and not aggressive, and added to the whole "Impregnated by an alien" thing, it gives a maternal vibe, which makes her a quite typically female action hero.
Toph on the other hand was literally written as a guy and then genderswapped.
>>77853717
>Korra
>AWESOME TUFF FEMALE
You could have at least tried to watch the show. Korra has a lot of issues in terms of likability, but overcompetence is certainly not one of them.
>>77853717
>Korra, Toph
You and your opinions are garbage.
>>77855279
>except making Chichi a guy all of a sudden
Do you really think the harassment she subjected Goku to would go over well if she was a guy?
>>77863358
You're not paying attention then.
Please give a couple of examples of what you consider to be a good character, so that I don't speak for nothing, and I'll try to show you how their gender impacts their character.
>>77865654
One example to your point is probably Brienne of Tarth, although she is not so much shaped by being a woman as she is by not being a man.
>>77865769
GoT is not my cup of tea so I'll believe you on that.
But most characters are (partly) shaped by their gender, or at least by the traditionnal role of their gender in their society. Be it by playing that role or by subverting it, it will impact them and how they interact with their surroundings. I don't think you can entirely ignore that and have a well-written character.
That's especially true in societies where gender roles are widely assymmetric, which is where most character in history have been written.
>>77852472
>>77852110
>>77852446
Basically, this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmFMFzXN0js
Take it from me, anon. Women simply cannot see when a woman is getting away with too much. And if they do, throw the empowerment card to them while you escape.
>>77865816
I was not contradicting you. Brienne is shaped by being terrible at everything a princess of Tarth needs to be. She is taller and stronger than most knights, elegant as a hippo and so terribly insecure she can't hold polite conversation for more than five minutes. Were she her father's son, she would have been a fabled knight. But she is a woman and nobody ever lets her forget how much of a disappointment she is. Until she hooks up with the most gallant knight in the realm. Well, sorta. This is aSoIaF, so nothing is ever easy.
>>77865585
That's not true. Parent/child is a unique relationship that a lot can be done with.
>>77865654The Crystal Gems.
>>77857451
>>77858834
I admire your temerity, anon. I, too, dream of a future where women don't exist, plebeian sexual gratification is replaced by direct stimulation of the pleasure centers, and all sons are grown as perfect, blue-eyed test tube babies unmarred by the genetic stupidity currently responsible for the cancer that is liberalism.
>>77869514
>let me attach a strawman to these statements to justify my social justice-oriented sensibilities
>that will show those mean Republicans!
I don't even agree with the guy, but he didn't say any of that, you mongoloid.
And if you want to counter-point him, just cite Miyazaki, War & Peace, and aSoIaF.
>>77870768
>this guy said something too edgy XD
>must be a strawman!
God forbid anyone have any viewpoints or convictions these days. I MUST be a social justice degenerate just because my views are "too extreme." Go fuck yourself.
>>77852678
This, depending on your setting.
If it's a realistic setting with modern American culture values, then there are going to be some slight differences in psyche.
>>77858834
By that logic, men are so mentally simplistic and easily manipulated by their surroundings that they make for blank slates anyone can project onto.
But, you know, that would be a stupid statement.
>>77870768
>>77871587
Also:
>Miyazaki
Boring overrated weeaboo shit for children. Of course tumblrites like you are going to think his characters are good. Little servant girl has adventures in fairyland? Bitch raised with wolves antagonizes noble industrialists before falling in love with a beta faggot? The mayor woman of Irontown admittedly might've been decent if she didn't eventually fall for the hippie bullshit.
>War & Peace
Men were the movers and important characters in W&P; the women were just boring garnish.
>aSoIaF
Overrated meme books and show filled with pathetic tumblr heroines that occasionally succeed only because of Martin's raging boner for his chick characters and the nonsense plot contrivances and ~magic~ that thus ensue. It does at least accurately portray the position and talents of the women he doesn't fantasize about.
>>77871999
>>77872334
Go ahead and post your shitty meme instead of repudiating me, retard.
>>77872469
It doesn't really help when you're the embodiment of a shitty meme
>>77872521
>haha I really got him good, reddit! XD
>any politics I disagree with are just a /pol/lack meme!
>>77865467
>Look at any shounen title
But does that apply to everything else? You can't really draw your conclusion when you focus on just one demographic, and even with that there's FMA, and Kangoh Bancho among others written for this demo that doesn't sideline its females.
>>77872469
Why would I want to? It's pretty clear that you're either a dedicated troll or have taste so shitty that your mother laments ever shoving you out of her sinful fish cavern. It's clear that you are absolutely stuck in your own mindset, so nothing I say is ever going to change it.
And that's fine with me, because it really doesn't matter whether or not some guy with a keyboard likes what I do.
