Why is the Marvel Universe so shit?
Serious question, literally no two characters work well together, none of them have any chemistry and all work better in their own self contained books/stories
Ever crossover has rotten foundations so that's the real reason every event is a disaster
X-mem logic dies as soon as other metas are involved
Spiderman/Wolverine have no business on Avengers teams (not strong/smart enough)
Thor looks pathetic not being even the member with the 3rd highest standing anymore considering he was a fucking king and could BTFO the rest of the team
Cap being worshipped like God/Superman is nonsensical considering their are heroes better at him at literally everything, have stronger/purer morals and are more relevant irl
>>77689655
I'm an X-men fan and I agree with the OP. X-men would work 1000000000% better if it was completely self-contained.
>>77689655
HE DIDN'T EVEN PUT ANY BAIT ON THIS LURE! COME ON!
>>77689505
because they based themselves as ff dc and that foundation is rotten to the core
>>77689505
>literally no two characters work well together
Human Torch/Spider-Man
Spider-Man/Daredevil
Daredevil/Punisher
Wolverine/Spider-Man
Captain America/Daredevil
Iron Fist/Power Man
Wonder Man/Beast
Just immediately off the top of my head. Like I think Marvel's turned to hell in a handbasket lately for sure but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater
>>77689505
>Spiderman/Wolverine have no business on Avengers teams (not strong/smart enough)
Bendis.
>serious question
>company war
>hyperboles
>short-sighted points
>powerlevels
>>77691098
They literally wouldn't work without other metas.
X-Men fans are idiots if you're any indication.
>>77689505
I mean, I will definitely admit most crossovers (other than minor, non-universe changing runs, guest appearances, or some Avengers team runs) are a disaster but a lot of what you're saying is just kind of...off base.
-X-Men logic would work better if self-contained, I agree. But you also have to keep in mind that mutants happen relatively randomly and can be born of non-mutant parents, which almost seems to be the case for mutant births more often than not. The fear of mutants is sort of a "oh no our own biological inferiority, we are going to die out" fear. I realize that isn't very clean but it still "works".
-Spider-Man/Wolverine not belonging on The Avengers? I understand thinking they are over saturated characters (they are, despite being two of my favorites), but they certainly fit in with The Avengers. Wolverine was borderline immortal until his regeneration was weakened and is an incredibly tough fighter. Spider-Man is also incredibly powerful, he just caps his own power so he doesn't end up killing or hurting people too terribly. He is also incredibly intelligent in the fields of biology and technology. Have you ever read Spidey?
-Thor I can agree with for the most part. His power has fluctuated wildly over the years and it gets bothersome. I don't read much Thor but definitely think he deserves to be OP like he once was.
-I also agree with Cap but he is, like, a figurehead. People remember him beating on Nazis and being one of the original super heroes, representing a lot of jingoism and morality and what have you. That said, he has had a character arc that has matched the States. As we get shadier, more hypocritical, angrier, etc. so does Cap but most people in-universe are blinded by what he once was and by merit of not really "knowing him". He's become a far more interesting character.
>>77691318
The logic of X-Men doesn't work without other metas damnit, because that logic was never that hating mutants was entirely rational.
>>77689505
>Ever crossover has rotten foundations so that's the real reason every event is a disaster
Except that is factually false, Secret Wars has the entire superb Hickman runs of Avengers and New Avengers and Spencer's Avengers world as a base.
>>77691098
It was almost completely self contained during the 90s and guess what: it was shit.
>>77691392
>>77691264
Stop posting, you rmouthbreathing cunt. You have no clue what you're talking about.
>>77691449
Pretty sure that's you and whoever the fuck popularized that stupid meme.
For as long as the X-Men have been hated, it's always been presented as a relatively irrational hate.
People saying "it's irrational to hate mutants in a universe with other meta, so the mutants don't work" are missing the point incredibly impressively. Again, the point never was that it makes total sense to hate mutants and not other metas.
Now that may be shallow and uninteresting, but mutant hate is fucking supposed to be irrational.
>>77691098
>>77689505
>hurr durr x-men logic does not work when other metas
this just shows how little you know about the marvel universe, the reason mutants have been feared
more than mutates is because of the idea that mutants are the next stage of human evolution
and that they are going to out-breed the human population or wipe out humanity all together.
Mutant supremacist groups like the brotherhood
of mutants are not helping the matters ether.
I agree op. Its almost as garbage as the DC universe.
>>77689505
The Marvel Universe as we know it was built by roughly six people, in descending order of importance.
Stan Lee
Jack Kirby
Chris Claremont
Walt Simonson
Frank Miller
Steve Ditko
The DC Universe however is a menagerie of the best of the best of a variety of different voices and ideas. Marvel's more consistent, but the sacrifice is that in the 5 plus decades since FF 1 people have been riffing on the same characters and motifs of Lee (Spider-Man, a little bit of everything else), Kirby (almost everything, but primarily Thor and FF), and Claremont (X-books). Miller and Simonson in the 80s added in new dimensions, though Simonson was in many ways continuing the ideas of Kirby, but there has been nothing to the degree of say, DC buying Charleton.
There have been attempts, yes: the Guardians, Greg Pak's Planet Hulk stuff, etc, but what Marvel needs most is someone who's outside the ken of those six to add a new color palette, so to speak.
>>77691098
Nah. Mutants work much better as one of many potential ways to get superpowers that is unreasonably hated more than the rest. People complain that it doesn't make sense, but it's not supposed to. It's supposed to be an irrational fear/hatred, that's the point. The Mutants have always been an analog for equality so having them present in a world full of other types of powered people who are for the most part more accepted works in favor of showing how stupid racists/homophobes/etc. are.
>>77691823
It's actually a pretty progressive move of Jameson that he's never tried to paint Spider-Man as a mutant. That would seal the deal for a lot of people and he's never done it.
>>77691823
Well they weren't always supposed to be that (Lee/Kirby didn't really have that aspect), but they were that as soon as they became hated.
>>77691740
>Miller over Ditko
>>77691861
He has.
>>77691098
They basically are
AvX was weird
>>77691171
Spiderman works "well" with most since he's treated as a joke and the other guy plays the straight man
Except it's not and you are faggot
>>77691986
He has? Where?
>>77691318
Spiderman is always a joke and mostly ignored since he joined the avengers
He makes no contribution and obviously isn't as smart as Tony or Reed
>>77691945
Romita senior did more to establish what Spider-Man was like then Ditko did and as amazing as Ditko's art for Dr. Strange is, other people have gone further with the character.
>>77691403
Secret Avengers was shit
Miss me, /co/?
>>77691740
Miller had strong impacts on characters but that isn't reflected when they crossover
>>77692571
I just remember it vaguely from when I was a kid, but a quick search says in "How I created Spider-Man". Although it was more off-hand as a possible origin for Spidey's powers, and not a fill-in smear campaign.
>>77692643
SOMEONE didn't read Ellis' issues.
>>77692752
>Cap condoning torture
>>77692752
Didn't like the concept, too fanfic
>>77692519
When Spider-Man teams up withj Deadpool you get the interesting role reversal of him having to be the straight man alongside an even wackier version of himself.
>>77691180
Yeah, Hawkeye is real strong and smart
>>77692656
He always went where the money was. And nowadays the money is on Bendis, diversity and nerdrage.
