Norman and Octavius both messed with Spiderman and Peter's personal life. All things considered, who is the better villain?
>>77662187
Personally I go with Ock because he almost wiped out humanity and finally killed Spider-man
>>77662187
Doc Ock
Because Green Goblin keeps losing and yet somehow surviving, whereas Doc Ock ACTUALLY WON, he just gave his win back to Petey when he realized it was the right thing to do.
>>77663089
he won cuz of slott. slott hates Peter
>>77663099
I guess but one way or another, Superior Spider-Man started off strong, so I don't mind. It's the second half that's kinda shit and the fact that they lobotomized Spidey's supporting cast just to make this thing work INSTEAD of writing a convincing Doc Ock pretending to be peter.
>>77662187
Norman has probably outright fucked with Peters life more.
Ock is getting there though. Superior was a pretty big moment for him.
I'm going to be VERY curious if Ock is going to remember Peter is Spider-man when he shows up again. (I could easily see them easily saying Ock cloned himself and the clone doesn't have the most recent memories before his original body died.)
Norman is the Joker to Peters Bats. He's a madman obsessed with Pete
Otto is more of a Mister Freeze, he's evil but sometimes can be/is redeemed
>>77662187
norman is the incomprehensible darkness, the final boss
otto is peter if he never had an uncle ben
both are easy enough to write, but nobody does ock justice and tends to turn him into a joke because he's an angry nerd
>>77663099
no, slott loves peter. that's why instead of actually ending superior spider-man he had doc ock give up and tell peter to save the day even though peter didn't do anything that ock already tried
norman just ran away
>>77662187
I prefer Doc, mostly because I usually prefer villains with motivation to 'I'm crazy' villains.
>tfw Swarm will never be an A-list Spidey villain
I still love you nazi bee skeleton man.
Norman without a doubt. While Ock has certainly done some damage, including killing Spider-Man himself, that's small potatoes compared to Norman. While killing the hero might've been a big accomplishment back in the day, nowadays it's just something that passes over within a year or so. It's not permanent damage and will be forgotten about as a minor event used to push sales.
The Goblin has had more lasting impact. Gwen Stacy is still dead, no matter how much marvel tries to push Spider-Gwen and Gwenpool, 616 Gwen is still dead. Even if Marvel is stupid enough to bring her back, she's been dead for about 40 or so years. That's a long time. Not to mention Norman has had impact on Peter's friends, especially Harry.
Don't get me wrong, I love Ock. Ock is a great villain too but Norman just has a greater weight when he appears. It IS a bit tiresome to see Norman constantly getting away with everything, though. One of the best parts of a villain like him is to see everything he's planned unraveling and biting him in the ass. He needs some comeuppance but he just gets a pat on the ass and walks away relatively unharmed. Even if it weren't permanent, I want to see Spidey going all out on him again like he did in the '70s and in the Raimi movie.
But who's the most popular among everybody as a whole?Venom.
Not even a debate.
>>77662187
Doc Ock for me! I like "funhouse" reflections of the hero. Otto is pretty much the "anti-Peter!"
>>77662187
Goblin is Spider-Man's Joker. Doc Oc is more like the Riddler or something.
They're both serious enemies when they want to be and they're both more or less obsessed with the hero, but while Norman is an irredeemable psycho shitbag, Otto tends to court the grey area a bit more because he realises there's more to life than messing with Peter.
And the whole Superior Spider-Man arc wasn't even about messing with Peter as proving he's better than him, which is classic Riddler stuff.
>>77665022
>I like "funhouse" reflections of the hero.
I think that's what I like about the core 3 Spider-Man villains. Each of them are darker reflections of Peter in their own ways.
>>77662187
Venom is.
He's also the only one that realistically is an actual challenge for Spider-Man.
>>77664652
>Otto is Peter without uncle Ben
That's always a good point. If you go back to ASM #1 Peter thought of some edgy stuff. "I can't wait till I show you how powerful I am Flash! Prove you wrong and make you eat your words!" You know, the stuff nerdy kids think when they get bullied. If he didn't have some guiding event, he could of just become angry at the world and become like doc ock. Probably even more dangerous.
I think I even remember ultimate spider-man touching on that. Fury had built defense protocols to take down Spider-Man because his life sucked. Fury anticipated someone with Peter's brain, powers, and the shit he has gone through would almost justify becoming a villain. And then he goes on to say, and even still, you didn't Peter. I was wrong. Or however it is Fury apologizes.
>>77665512
Didn't Otto grow up without a dad, and with an insane, selfish, and domineering mother?
>>77665936
Nope. His dad was the abusive and alive one.
Ock is pathetic
>>77665967
Googled it, his dad was abusive, but predeceased his controlling and selfish mother.
>>77662187
Norman. How can this even be a question? Slott pls go.
>>77662187
Norman
Otto's greatest achievement is having sexy-times with Pete's body
He's a Skip-tier villain
Norman fucked peters shit up hard. Like who the fuck does peter hang out with who isnt a super hero these days?
>>77662187
Otto is just a man driven to crime because he had a shit Mom and employers.
Norman has too many issues to count and is true evil. He is Spidermans arch for a reason.
Otto!
>>77662187
Doc Ock if you want someone who challenges Spider-Man's genius, Green Goblin if you want someone who challenges Spider-Man's identity.
