So many times I've seen the idiots on this board call Korra a bad character, when in reality she just has character flaws, like a properly written character (as opposed to almost every character fíom A:TLA).
But why can't people see this? Why are Avatar fans so stupid that they interpret every instance of a main character not immediately succeeding at everything as bad writing?
Do they equate the idea of "well written character" with "Mary Sue" or something?
>>77424939
Can you list Korra's successes?
She just doesn't seem to change very much, OP. She doesn't seem to learn anything and she doesn't seem to actually score any victories, verbal or physical, without someone else bailing her out.
>>77424939
nah you're the idiot
>>77424939
I agree with you OP, though she does border on being unlikable in season 2.
As for why people criticize her for it, I agree that it is a mistake to dislike a character for failure, but I imagine anti-Korra folks would say that the reason they don't like the failures is because the execution is bad, not the idea itself.
I personally really enjoy Korra as a character and think her flaws give her a depth that Aang doesn't necessarily have. I don't think one is better than the other, but I like that they chose to tell different kinds of stories in the two series
>>77425023
I disagree. I think that Korra in season 1 is a very different person than Korra at the end of the series. I also disagree that she gets bailed out. I would argue that she works with a team, as Aang did, and anything Team Avatar accomplishes she plays a pivotal role in.
Plus her fight with the red lotus was fucking insane
It's not because she fails, its because she rarely ever succeeds
>>77425060
>Korra
>more depth than Aang
Aang fucked up things about as bad as Korra most of the time, but then he tried to learn from it. He grows as a person that way.
Korra fucked up shit, didn't learn a thing, the show acts like she is in the right anyway when in universe it would be a stretch.
What you see as a "flaw" is actually presented as a heroic trait of her character.
>>77425203
I think Aang had to deal with feelings of inadequacy, but never got dealt as many harsh blows as Korra did.
I don't think Korra loses so much as only achieve very costly victories. I think Korra becomes much more humble over the course of the series and has Spidey level willpower.
I like both, but honestly prefer Korra of the two.sokka is best overall though
>>77425154
She had a fight with the Red Lotus?
All I remember was a Looney Tunes chase scene with Zaheer that accomplished nothing.
>>77425338
To each their own anon. I just never understood the hate for this series
>>77424939
>she just has character flaws, like a properly written character (as opposed to almost every character fíom A:TLA).
>(as opposed to almost every character fíom A:TLA).
The fuck are you talking about?
>>77425356
I was being a little glib, but seriously, did she have a real fight with the Red Lotus, and maybe I just forgot.
Because all I remember is her breaking free of her chains and chasing Zaheer. It was kinda visually impressive, but nothing really happened.
>>77424939
I wasn't a fan of how she had to backtrack on development for the sake of season 2's sudden announcement, but I agree that I appreciated her character arc by the end of the series.
Woman has flaws = bad character
Woman doesn't have flaws = bad character
>>77425469
That depends on the flaws and the execution
Korra is not a bad character. But she's still written badly. She doesn't actually develop, she just blunders through obstacles until time comes to wrap things up and plot just solves everything for and she learns nothing.
Aang had similar issue, just not as obvious.
>>77425060
Korra is fine as a character but, as a lot of people say, she never really changed.
>>77425154
As this person pointed out, she is different, but not much. Korra's not pouting or shouting all the time anymore, but she's still this headstrong person from S1 to S4. She never really sat down with anyone and discussed problems, she just punched them. Closest we got as with Zaheer in the Spirit World in S3, which was more of an exposition scene since Korra didn't try to convince Zaheer, and with Zaheer in S4, which was so rushed it might as well not have been there. Granted, Korra does get training from Toph (who's another bag of worms), but all she gets out of it is that she didn't punch good. Yes, there was the whole thing about Korra dealing with PTSD, but never felt handled well. Really, it felt like a sub-plot to a bigger, weaker plot since the PTSD was resolved with Zaheer just saying, "lmao let it go". Hell, this same sub-plot was dealt with in S2 with fucking Iroh telling her the same shit in the spirit world. Korra had a strong foundation to build on after losing her powers (S1 & S4), but it never went anywhere and ended with Korra getting those powers back.
I think another problem is that Korra never really expressed many opinions outside of S1 when she wanted to fuck around in Republic City without the White Lotus babysitting her, and her reluctance about joining that police raid on those non-benders. Yeah, S2 Korra chewed out Tonraq and Tenzin in favor for Unaloq, but really what other alternative did the writers give her? Have her forgive the White Lotus, right then and there, for taking away her childhood? It also didn't help that Unalaq was so obviously evil that it made Korra look like an idiot for listening to anything he ever said. At least Varrick could hide behind his charisma. Everything else was people telling Korra what to do and then her doing them. The most egregious of this was Korra fighting Kuvira because the Beifongs told her.
Korra has flaws but rarely do those flaws lead to character growth or even consequences. Korra is fine, conceptually, but the actual execution of that concept is wonky at best
>>77424939
>when in reality she just has character flaws, like a properly written character
No, that's really not it at all.
There is nothing wrong with character flaws generally speaking. But Korra is a bad character because the entire world revolves around her and her flaws.
For the last time, neither character flaws nor realism equate to "a good character" and a "properly-written" boring person is just as boring as the real version.
Korra's an insecure meat-head with an inferiority complex almost as big as her entitlement complex (not to overuse a popular catch-all, but pretty much every time she can't do anything right away her response is to bemoan how she should have been able to do it right away because she's the avatar) who does nothing but infuriate the rational people around her, including the audience.
>>77425299
>never got the harsh blows Korra got
Nigga has his entire element wiped out. His story is a story of redemption, naivety and staying true to himself. They're polar opposites as characters, he adapts to things quick, is laid back, has issues with confidence and being too naive. His story is a coming of age one.
She is a stubborn hothead who has problems with her over confidence. Her constant defeats slowly humble her until she does a full 360 and comes back around to her confidence.
She slowly changes over the series but she isn't written that well Tbh.
>(as opposed to almost every character from A;TLA)
They all had flaws. Katara's blood lust for revenge, Sokka's man issues, Aang's growing up too quick issues, Toph's stubbornness, Zuko, Iroh's history of tragedy.
>>77424939
You're wring in some ways, wrong in others.
You're correct in that it's wrong of /co/ to think Korra is a bad character because of her flaws.
But Korra's problem was that her flaws never actually caused her any problems. The only time she had any actual consequences (end of Book 3), it was not a consequence of any character flaws at all but the result of a heroic sacrifice.
A good story should target a character's weaknesses and force them to overcome them. Korra's stories did not.
Also:
>as opposed to almost every character fíom A:TLA
This is just plain false. All of ATLA's main characters had plenty of flaws. Though Aang had the same problem as Korra, in that the story bend around him instead of forcing him to adapt.
>>77425154
>I think that Korra in season 1 is a very different person than Korra at the end of the series.
It's a very messy character arc. From day one her core weaknesses are shown to be aggression, overconfidence, and reliance on brute force. Only this second one is really addressed.
>I also disagree that she gets bailed out.
She gets bailed out a lot.
Book 1 and 2 had it the worst:
>Airbending unlock for no reason
>Aang hands her all her bending PLUS the Avatar State PLUS the ability to give people they're bending back
>Grow giant powers from nowhere
>Jinora doing...whatever the fuck that was.
In Book 3 it's a plot point that she fails, which I can't hold against the story, but in Book 4 (the only time she remotely earns her victory) her friends do almost all of the work.
>>77425405
That was intentional. Zaheer knew he had no chance in a fight, so he relied on his flight and the poison already in Korra to get the job done.
>>77424939
She has too many flaws. No one likes a Mary Sue, but then there's the other end of the spectrum where there is literally nothing likeable about her, simply because she has too many flaws. She has toxic romantic notions, is honestly terrible and careless at bending, makes poor life decisions, is short tempered... There's honestly little redeeming qualities about her except she's Asami's little bitch and is delicious brown skin, which are honestly just so superficial. A well written character has strengths and flaws, but she has little to no strengths to begin with, to the point we're left wondering "why IS she the "heroine" of the story?". To top it all off, despite being completely without merit, she doesn't even learn from season to season, growing more stupid every episode. In season 2, when she single handedly loses connection to the spirit world, and yet Tenzin comes up to her and says "I'm proud of you", most of the audience is cringing at how pathetic a consolation this is. If anything, the ability to repeatedly fail and yet still garner ANY kind of support and sympathy, from anybody, and even worse, continuously claim victory via pure Deus Ex Machina makes HER a Mary Sue, as opposed to anybody from ATLA.
Suspension of disbelief is one thing, which sometimes you had to do in ATLA, but in Korra, you gotta suspend it so hard it might as well be able to run a maglev train.
At least, that's what I felt when I watched Korra's seasons.
The one thing I am thankful towards the existence of this show is that taught /co/ to properly contribute discerning criticism in discussion as opposed to /v/ tier shitposting. This show and Man of Steel.
>>77426144
>The most egregious of this was Korra fighting Kuvira because the Beifongs told her.
You mean when Korra tried to mediate between Suyin and Kuvira, then Suyin, after agreeing to a ceasefire, tried to assassinate Kuvira, failed and then Korra tried to bail her dumb ass out?
>>77426901
She did decide to fight Kuvira right after that, though, pretty much just because Opal said so.
>>77425154
First thing Korra did in S04 is let everyone worried by not saying where she was. She didn't learn at all.
>>77425203
When was it that Aang let a spirit that could destroy the entire planet go free?
>>77424939
Flaws don't turn people off the way you think they do, otherwise shows with protagonists that aren't necessarily good people would never be popular.
There's usually a catharsis achieved when a character that's beaten down or has fucked up finally overcomes what was holding them down and claws out a victory for themselves, sometimes by the skin of their teeth. But LoK rarely managed these kinds of satisfying moments for Korra for one reason or another, even though the opportunity was there. I think that's where people get frustrated.
>>77426878I disagree, I think the shitposting just reached critical mass.There are legitimate points of criticism, but overall I think this was a good show.
>>77427201
Read up on storytelling principles.
Most people don't want to have to think when watching this show Op. Its that simple. If there is a clear or decisive winner then it confused most anons
>>77427298
what the hell is this post even trying to say
It's not that Korra herself was a bad character, she has the same problem as Miss Martian; her problems and faults are acknowledged by no one or when they are, nothing happens.
>>77427609
Miss Martian was called out on her flaws, though. Superboy dumped her for her mindraping, and she had to make up for mindraping Aqualad.
>>77424939
>muh "flaws = well-written character"
Take off your first year Lit hat and actually look at the way things played out before spouting that dogma. Korra was hardly a character at all compared to everyone else in the series, let alone Avatar as a whole. She was ineffectual to the point of absurdity.
Civil Unrest in the republic? Eh, it'll work itself out. Ruin your circle of friends because you can't keep your hormones in check? It'll work itself out. Lose your bending? Aang will work it out for you. Loose your unused connection to the wisdom of previous Avatars? That's the next Avatar's problem. Humans aren't prepared to deal with the spiritual world? It'll work out. Poisoned? It'll work itself out, after three years of sulking that is.
Now, one could argue the merits of having an ineffectual protagonist in a failing position of power in an ensemble piece; but as I doubt the title "Legend of Korra" was meant to be ironic, I don't think the series was supposed to be that kind of character study.
>>77424939
Because /co/'s idea of good writing is cape comics.
Not that Lok is well written, but Korra is a fine character, just not fit for your classic hero's journey, which is what avatarfags wanted from this show.
>>77425203
And then there's this faggot.
>>77428473
I haven't seen many people expect a heroes journey from LoK. Considering that a lot of the critizism is about how they fucked up the political themes like equality, spirituality, anarchy and totalitarianism.
Actually it feels like a lot of people really hated how they treated every villains as if it was a heroes journey story.
>>77427177
When was it that Korra had everyone she knew murdered?
>>77428565
Would Aang have died if he'd stayed?
I mean, Katara says he would have, and the Sozin assumed he would. But then again, Gyatso was able to take down dozens of comet-powered Firebenders WITHOUT Avatar power.
>>77424939
She is the definition of a bad character. A bad character comes from when a writer wants one thing but does the opposite. They presented a fighter and wrote a little bitch.
>you hate me but I know you want to fuck me
>>77424939
>when in reality she just has character flaws
we all know that, the problem is how the writers handle her flaws
>>77428591
Even Sokka took out like three comet-powered firebenders.
>>77428614
So Aang is a bad character too then?
They presented a pacifist but wrote a fighter.
Korra's a nominal hero and they do a really bad job of showcasing how she makes the world better for her presence. And more importantly, they do a worse job of explaining why the bad guys are wrong and how the problems they present are actually rectified.
Hell, even Bryke can't explain what the fuck happened at the end of Spirits. That should tell you something. It's their show and they just go "Yeah Jinora did...something. Whatever."
>>77429458
When the world is arguably worse off than it was before due to the actions of your protagonist, you fucked up, unless that was part of the plan but in LoK it clearly wasnt
>>77424939
I was agreeing with your premise right up until:
>as opposed to almost every character fíom A:TLA
Yeah, keep your shitty taste anon.
>>77429487
>When the world is arguably worse off than it was before due to the actions of your protagonist, you fucked up,
To be fair an unfortunately large amount of fiction is guilty of this primarily because of the sheer number of heroes that create their villains because somehow that's like pottery.
To their credit, Korra's exempt from that, But she still doesn't actually solve the root problems, and root problems stop being problems once she sides with them.
Like, Amon was fake, but his beef was still legitimate and Korra did fuck all to address it beyond "I'm going to fight Amon" and even then she does a really crappy job of it. She never mentions the fact that hey, Sato is a non bender and he's ridiculously successful, so maybe Amon's movement is full of crap. The actual resolution (disbanding the council, electing a non bender president) is completely time skipped over in between seasons too; so we have no idea if she had a hand in it or not.
Season 2 is an even bigger mess. "I know the bad guy said that we should open the spirit world gate and merge the two like, five minutes ago and it was a terrible idea then because of undisclosed reasons, but now I'm going to do it and it's 100% the right choice because of even less defined reasons."
What happened to Wan Shi Tong and Koh the Face Stealer? Hell, even Hei Bai and the ocean spirit had body counts and they were arguably "good". It's freaking weird how the rules changed in order for Korra to be in the right there.
Korra is, when all is said and all is done, boring.
More boring than Asami, and Asami didn't do nothing important
>>77424939
My theory is that the hate come from that she's not Aang.
>>77431094
I hate more that they tried to make her like Aang in season 4 finale.
>>77424939
Can't hear you over the pandering.
>>77424939
I take issue with this, anon. Failure is fine. Aang failed all over the place and grew as a person for it. Arguably the case should be the same for Korra here. But if you remember, the biggest criticism of AtLA was during the last battle with Ozai. Instead of Aang having to find a third way out himself, he hits a rock which unlocks all of his power, and then uses a technique taught to him by a giant spirit turtle thing that suddenly was a thing with very little build up. It was called out as a cop-out. Arguably the better route would have been for Aang to have been given the pieces of the puzzle for finding that third way and then putting them together in the heat of battle. Then he would have earned his victory.
With Korra, the problem isn't that she fails. Its that she seems to have this karmic safety net. Either the universe makes sure she succeeds or else that people don't criticize her dumb choices. Or when, in the rare chance that people get to call her out on her shit, they're portrayed as wrong for reasons. Korra isn't held back from being a good character by her mistakes. She's held back by terrible writing.
>>77425203
Did you watch season 4? Korra sees the situation with Kuvira and wants to talk with her. Korra from season 1 would've charged right in there and tried (and failed) to kick her ass. The whole thing with Kuvira got so out of hand basically entirely because of Suyin.
>>77433173
>Korra sees the situation with Kuvira and wants to talk with her.
And it only took her three whole seasons to learn not to be a brazen, punch-happy lunkhead, by which time it was already late and Kuvira had already annexed almost all of the kingdom into her empire, all while Korra spent her days getting beaten up at every fight club possible, leaving her family and friends worried sick.
>>77424939
>no character development
>horrible progression, poorly written dialogue
The only saving grace of the character is the art and voice acting. The rest is trash
>>77429546
>Hell, even Hei Bai
Hei Bai never killed anyone tho.
>ocean spirit had body counts and they were arguably "good".
Having a body count also dont make you evil. They had just killed hiss wife, that is also the manifestation of the fucking moon, and it was a battle on a WAR.
But hell, the writters should have treated the spirits better on Korra, like, actually making them act like spirits on chinese and japanese folklore.
>>77424939
The only thing I can legitimately say she kinda did right was saving that jumper who was trying to kill himself...and even then that backfired.
