![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/K2dSyYf.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
What does /co/ feel about Johns bringing Barry back?
I personally have mixed feelings. I can see how bringing him back might undermine Wally's character growth but at the same time it seemed like wally was a complete character by the time they brought him back, also it's not like Barry was there for long considering he reconned the entire universe.
it wasn't like they did with hal, where kyle and the rest still had roles
everybody started sucking barry off as fucking jesus and it really did push wally back, then nu52 happened and wally got fridged forever
he was a family man, he had a good wife (interracial) and kids who were starting to grow into the next generation (which is the thing about the flash: legacy). it's like it's some stupid comic law that the only happy family can be the F4.
instead we got MUH UNSOLVED MURDERS, MUH I TRIPPED DOWN THE STAIRS WHEN I WAS 6 BUT THAT WAS ZOOM, MUH TORMENT
one of johns' biggest misfires
>>77359389
Bringing back Barry isn't a horrible idea on its own merits, but Johns kind of fucked it up.
Which is a shame because I like pretty much everything else I've read that he's done.
>>77359457
This, honestly the comic should have been a Flash Family comic with stories focusing on Wally, Barry, Bart, Wally's kids, Jay, and Jessie
Then we should have gotten that Zoom corps event with Mara Thawne but no, fuck New 52.
![15820833533_11e6228110_o[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/8AEGq7b.jpg "15820833533_11e6228110_o[1].jpg")
I am more of a Barryfag but I see how this hurt wally. Especially since they basically killed him and replaced him with pick related.
>That horrible design
I don't rally entirely blame Johns. Yeah Rebirth was a celebration of Barry but despite that I felt like Johns himself was pushing for the importance of all the speedsters and was trying to set up storylines that would use all of them even though Barry was meant to be the main character. The only thing Johns is really guilty of in my eyes is failing to fight DC's bad Flash ideas. Even going back further than the lead up Flashpoint (when it started to become obvious that something was off even though we didn't know a reboot was coming), if he and Waid had succeeded at stopping them 10 years ago on the "hurr let's make Bart the Flash" shit probably none of this would have happened.
Alas.
>>77359389
I love Wally but Barry is THE Flash, just like Hal is THE Green Lantern.
it'd be like if Kyle stayed as GL. nobody would like that.
I like Barry a lot and I am glad he came back but I wish they hadn't thrown Wally under the bus to do it
Flash Family beyond Barry, Jay and Wally is gay and retarded
Rebirth was bad, especially because of how big the family had gotten
>>77360123
>Flash Family beyond Barry, Jay and Wally is gay and retarded
>Johnny and Jessie Quick
>Max motherfucking Mercury THE ZEN MASTER OF SPEED
>gay and retarded
>>77360123
>>77360173
Different anon but considering how powerful the Speed force is I didn't like how many Speedsters eventually joined.
It makes Barry and Wally seem less special.
>>77359729
You realize in Rebirth Wally was getting his shit kicked in by Lady fucking Savitar while Barry easily disabled her with one hand? Or that Thawne beat the piss out of Wally like he wasn't there while Barry was the only one who could match him?
The only thing Wally did in the entirety of Rebirth was tell Barry how to time travel without a treadmill (which Barry was instantly better than him at) and make clothes.
>>77360123
How can only opinion be this wrong?
>>77360209
Wally's entire run as The Flash is characterized by the extended cast of speedsters around him and he was made no less special for it.
>>77360236
That' actually the one thing I didn't like about the Wally run is how many Speedsters there were, especially when there were villain speedsters.
Personally I would never make it more than 4 speedsters at a time. So while Barry was gone I would have
>Wally, Jay
>Johny, Max
>>77360219
Yes I acknowledged that with
>Rebirth was a celebration of Barry
My point is that I feel as though Johns still had plans for the others too and I do not blame him or Barry being back for those plots not coming to fruition.
>>77360236
>everyone and their mom is a speedster
>he still thinks Wally is special
We literally had a speed cult of hundreds (thousands?) of people. Everyone had super speed, what was the point?
>>77360282
but Bart in the comic and in Impulse was fucking awesome. Why rob us of Bart?
>>77360297
He clearly had plans for others. He and Kollins wrote and drew two issues of "Speed Force" that were meant to be backups in the Main Flash book and eventually move into its own solo.
Then DC said no, threw away those two issues and said that now that Barry was back he was the only speedster who could be focused on. They said this because Rebirth's sales were REALLY bad. Sold half as much as they expected. They thought the problem was the Flash family when it turns out it was just not many people being interested in Barry coming back.
Go figure.
>>77360370
Do you think the ONLY important thing in the comic was who has what powers? If so then you're missing the point.
Wally became boring at the end. Honestly I couldn't bear his children and his MUH LINDA
>>77360575
No, you're missing the point.
Super speed was incredibly overused to the point where it was entirely unremarkable.
>>77359752
I would
>>77360659
Wally did have a relatively complete journey, as complete as a big two character can get anyway, so to be honest I don't miss him THAT much
But the way he just kind of got shoved to the side and didn't show up much was pretty lame, and when they did the reboot they should probably have just reverted him to Kid Flash and written him similar to Young Justice, I don't know what they were thinking with the way they've handled Bart and Wally since then
>>77360675
Good thing Superspeed isn't his only power you fucking loon.
>>77360659
Yeah, I wasn't a big fan of Johns' Linda (or really his Wally, either). Waid's Linda was great, though.
>>77359457
>it's like it's some stupid comic law that the only happy family can be the F4.
Because the writers only define Sue as "Reed's wife" and if they're going to go that far, they might as well have kids.
In fact, most women in comics are a variation of the "Amazon", "mother", or "love interest" archetype. That's not say that's bad per se, but when it's the only character trait it's really sexist and two-dimensional.
>inb4 spooky scary skelly
>>77360928
In fact, most men in comics are a variation of the "Spartan", "genius", or "billionaire playboy" archetype. That's not say that's bad per se, but when it's the only character trait it's really sexist and two-dimensional.
>>77361148
It is, and also a reason why comics are shit.
Peter Parker isn't allowed to be a husband or a father, the writers only let him be a swinging tomcat and now he's a billionaire playboy.
>>77360659
I've found Wally's MUH LINDA really annoying ever since they started dating, unfortunately.
>>77363005
DING DING DING
I love Wally in Morrison and Kelly JLA but never really enjoyed him in a solo.
>>77361148
This is true. Both things are true, neither are really sexist more than they are absolute dogshit writing enforced by editorial
>>77360677
Then you've got shitty taste in lanterns.
I think Johns was intending for his Flash run to be longer but DC basically fucked it up with the reboot.
Flashpoint wasn't even suppose to be a reboot device. It was just the big Flash event for Johns's run ala Blackest Night for Green Lantern. DC pretty much forced the reboot device into it with that Pandora page.
>>77363105
Johns had already teased future storyarcs and characters by posting about them on forums, so he definitely had actual plans to continue working on the book.
>>77359752
>it'd be like if Kyle stayed as GL. nobody would like that.
Kyle was more popular than Hal up until 2009.
In fact hal was usually third in popularity in all "the source" polls, only being more popular than John.
>>77360297
Johns doesnt know how to "celebrate" a character without shitting on others that's probably his worst trait as a writer.
>>77359389
Morrison brought back Wally, not Johns, Johns was just the editorial slut that ruined the flash family while lying to the fans.
>>77363317
Johns was the one who pitched Barry coming back, Morrison just wrote him into Final Crisis. As was said in Rebirth, Wally would've filled the role (and to some degree did) in Final Crisis even if Barry wasn't there. They both did the deed.
Johns pitched Flash Rebirth shortly after GL Rebirth was a success. Didio turned it down at first but then The Flash became bad because of TERRIBLE editorial teams and Ethan Van Sciver badgered Didio enough to get it to go through. Johns and EVS are 100% to blame, Johns for pitching the script and EVS for non stop bothering Didio until he went through with it.
To some degree Didio is also at fault and he certainly didn't seem to give a shit about it when he spent literal years mocking and insulting Wally fans after Rebirth.
>>77363047
>>77363005
You guys are crazy. The Flash solo was gold for like 10 years.
>>77363617
You like it, you like it, not for me m8. I dunno, day to day life stuff for a guy who I've seen run perpendicular to time and shit, just don't do it for me.
>>77363617
Waid managed to hit a whole bunch of sour notes for me, unfortunately. I know most people love it and I don't begrudge them that, but it really rubs me the wrong way.
>>77360236
That's not true, his comic was completely speedster-less until Waid took over.
Well, apart from 'kinda fast' Speed demon who didn't use his powers once he became supporting cast.
>>77359389
My problem was how Barry's was treated like the second coming of Jesus, the most awesomest person that ever existed. Heroes kept heaping him with unearned praise in a blatant attempt to get readers who aren't used to Barry Allen to like him.
>>77363768
Remembered this when in the latest ep Jay says, "You're better than I ever was or ever will be."
Fucking Johns.
>>77363717
Right, his comic was speedsterless until the best run started.
>>77363768
Jay "I wouldn't really be a hero if Barry Allen hadn't shown me what it's like to be a true hero" Garrick
Fuck Johns forever, seriously what the fucking christ
>>77363768
And I thought Hal Jordan punching Batman in GL: Rebirth and Batman being jealous of Hal for being so awesome was bad
>>77364009
>Batman being jealous of Hal for being so awesome was bad
When was that?
>>77359578
What's worse is it's specifically designed to showcase the fact that he's black.
>>77363768
He was treated as such when he was dead too, you moron.
>>77364032
In GL: Rebirth. It turns out the reason Batman never liked Hal was because Hal "overcomes fear" whereas all Batman can do is "instill fear"
>>77364060
Yea but if he's dead following the CoIE death, that's fine and deserved.
>>77363768
I know pretty much everybody realizes how devastating keeping the resurrected Barry on such a huge pedestal was for the rest of The Flash family. But I just want to add that it's actually been pretty detrimental to Barry's character as well.
Like, Barry Allen isn't supposed to be "special". Back in the day he was an almost proto-Peter Parker figure, just without the snark or melodrama. Barry's at his best when he's just a regular guy. A slightly nerdy, big hearted everyman that's thrown in to absolute bonkers conflicts with telepathic gorilla tyrants and time traveling doppelgangers. Treating him as THE BESTEST FLASH EVER YOU GUYS and the most important man in the universe to the point where he's basically a fucking black hole is incredibly backwards and does nothing but weigh him down.
The TV show is far from perfect, but it really benefits from being able to take Barry out of that context and take an almost back to basics approach to his character.
>>77359578
My only issue is the silver.
New 52 had to completely rewrite Wally because they made Bart Allen the Kid Flash in Teen Titans. They just drew him like Young Justice Wally and ran with it.
I like Black Wally because they've cemented the Original Wally as untouchable, the ultimate hero. Wally's arch is way more amazing than Barry's Jesus powers could be because its more human.
Let Black Wally show us what he can do, and maybe he'll step up.
>>77360209
Most of those speedster, like Bart, Iris, and Jae, are descended from other speedsters, though, and it had already been established that metagenes are heritable. None of the younger speedsters were very powerful or experienced, so as long as things were kept like that or Young Justice, in which Barry was light speed and episode 1 Wally was too inexperienced to even run up walls, I don't see power dilution being a problem. It's not like having multiple people with Class 1 super strength is going to make Superman or the Hulk less special.
>>77364139
Proto Peter Parker is how I describe Barry to everyone.
This is also what works with the early New 52 Flash comics.
I'm not clear on whether he recalls resetting the universe, but his world is SSOOOOO Peter Parker it's crazy.
>>77364139
>being able to take Barry out of that context and take an almost back to basics approach to Wally West's character
FTFY
>>77364009
that was actually hilarious, especially Guy's face, beside Bruce got to punch Hal back in Hal's ongoin
