This is the Webcomicker.
Note his blank, thoughtless stare, his willingness to meekly pander to any who would pay him any mind, and his general oafishness.
This is the beast the hugbox of eternal praise and the notion that every word of criticism is trolling breeds.
The is the sum of all your sins, /co/.
Why?
>>77354719
So that we may never forget
>>77354674
Why is it so hard for people on /co/ to let others enjoy what they don't like?
Why is it so hard to understand that something being "objectively" bad is ridiculous by its own nature?
Why must /co/ be so hypocritical and have so little self criticism that they blame anyone that is tired of this bulshit of being an ass kisser?
Is the hand staber a bad artist? Yes, most likely.
Does it affect anyone, ever, who doesn't actively goes out of his way to follow what he draws?
Who would ever know; Not at all.
Furthermore, try writing a story one page at a time, one page almost everyday.
It doesn't matter that it goes slowly, or even that some people don't like it, myself included to be fair. It is really hard, and it is more that anyone on /co/ is ever going to do, let alone be successful enough to make a living out of it
So excuse me if I see this threads as a sad "Wha wha whaaa, that guy makes money doing something I think I would do better if I actually tried, but I won't"
Fuck it, really.
>>77354674
What'd he do?
>>77356170
He makes a lot of money off a mediocre webcomic.
>>77356170
Become more successful than the NEET faggots that hate him.
>>77354674
>10k a month
>to be a fat autistic sack of shit
>that moved to canada to get a sex change
>that had to come back to America to get it done
>>77355682
leave, Dobson
What is it about webcomic artists that make us want to assassinate their character?
Is it a drive to dissect them through their art? (this is the self insert character, this represents their break up with their girlfriend, etc) or is it the amount of self-promotion and general nonsense writing they do on social media?
There are so few webcomic artists that /co/ doesn't seem to revel in tearing to shreds...
>>77356899
I love how some people on /co/ feel like they are somewhat superior to their hated webcomic authors, when in truth they are as bad or worst. Even Dobson can actually take criticism better than the average /co/'s anon.
>>77355682
>writing a story
There are no stories in QC, it's a roving series of nonsense that goes nowhere, ever.
Stories have endings.
>>77356872
Wait, what?
I need details about the last two.
>>77356170
Renact a scene from Evil Dead 2
>>77357162
>Even Dobson can actually take criticism better than the average /co/'s anon.
>>77357112
True. Only the guy from K6BD is safe. For now.
The guy who writes Paranatural was all good until the Hitball saga become too stagnant
>>77357112
As a medium, webcomics have no quality control and webcomic artists are generally the lowest common denominator of creator.
>>77354674
>gauged ears
Of fucking course.
>>77357216
I had seen Dobson actually accept criticism and even said he would try to tone down the Strawmen. I would love to see an anon accept that much even once.
I mean, look at this; You can't even accept you can't accept criticism, you would rather think people are baiting you, or change the subject back to Dobson being shit.
It's ridiculous how the irony seems to be invisible to most.
>>77357278
>anon criticizing anon
You have problems, anon. Unlike me.
>>77357112
>What is it about webcomic artists that make us want to assassinate their character
Most of the Webcomickers /co/ hate do it well enough by themselves.
People like Dobson, Willis, Jacques, and Diaz do nothing more than swing their opinionated cocks around and berate their fans.
>>77357175
Anything can be an story, to assume that it needs to have a clear beginning or end is ridiculous.
You are heavily confusing liking something or not with that being qualified as a story or not. You don't decide anon, neither does 4chan, not even the internet.
If there are people out there actually paying him to write, then you can rest assured that his story is at the very least interesting enough to charm some people, and that's more than you can say about some actually published materials.
Why is so fucking hard to accept that there is no cit them all concept of good or bad?
Why is so hard to accept that what you enjoy is not what is good for others?
>>77357112
We aren't assassinating shit. They're doing it themselves. We just point and laugh.
>>77357278
>I would love to see an anon accept that much even once.
Perhaps you should try the the boards in which content is created like /i/ or /ic/ or where people who seek upon a profession or skill like /ck/ in their challenge threads.
But that's okay keep using "anon" as if it's someone you can point fingers at and feel superior with your. Careful not toinflateyour ego.
>>77357351
>Why is so fucking hard to accept that there is no cit them all concept of good or bad
I don't deny that.
>Why is so hard to accept that what you enjoy is not what is good for others
I don't deny that some people could possibly like QC unironically, but please tell me why the fact that someone could like it means that I cannot criticize it at all?
If you like it, like it. Go ahead and frolic about in it if you like it so much, but expecting people to ignore something just because someone else likes it is silly.
It'd be like me telling you to stop posting in this thread because some people like bashing hacques.
That's the point I wanted to make about Jeph and his odious ilk. They're like you, they want people who don't like the comic or think it can be improved to go away.
They ignore discourse about the quality of their work and they suffer for it.
>>77357195
Jeph moved to Canada a few months back, don't really know why. Last week he was back in the US to get some weird ear growth..thing...looked at.
>>77357412
Is that really what you get from what I am saying?
I can't even talk back at all this shit without the cardumen just moving away and pretending they are not part of it.
I inflate my ego by trying to tell people that they actually aren't really entitled to force their opinions down others throats, without at least having the courtesy to take the backslash like a man I mean, and I inflate my ego because I use the wolrd anon to refer to those that so often and so commonly refer to Jeffs as a hack for actually doing something, be it good or not.
Thanks for the lesson. Next explain to me how I could ever do that while being on anonymous board. I might aswell talk to myself in the mirror and feel superior If I actually wanted to waste my time and was that easy to please.
But seriously fuck this. This threads always get on my nervs.
This is just jealous people, is it that hard to grasp?
This guy makes money because he actually tried, get over it.
>>77357493
Oh so the sex change part was the usual /co/ bulshit.
>>77357493
>don't really know why
To go be with his internet girlfriend.
Literally the same thing his main character did and regretted.
>>77357477
>I don't deny that some people could possibly like QC unironically, but please tell me why the fact that someone could like it means that I cannot criticize it at all?
Criticism is constructive, calling somebody a Hack and pretending it is criticism is ridiculous.
I called what I said criticism because I am actually trying to make peope see they are being ridiculous, but If I were to call you all a bunch of faggs and then call it a day that would not be criticism.
Furthermore, the moment you show your opinion on the internet you are supposed to be open to criticism. I am criticism your reviews, they are ridiculous and based on nothing but personal preferences, plus they are only you saying "this guy is a hack" so there is much to complain about.
So what, you can lash but you are not supposed to receive?
What if Jeff, or whoever, were to say he makes his stuff because he has the right to, would you have to shut up to not be an huge iprocrate?
And how the fuck does this guy suffer because he ignores fuckers that confuse insults with constructive criticism? He is still making 10k a month.
>>77357608
>And how the fuck does this guy suffer
Stabbing his own hand is a sign that he lets online stress affect his real life. So yeah.
>>77355682
Jeph/Diaz/Willis/Gigi plz leave.
>>77357519
Good grief.
>I might aswell talk to myself in the mirror and feel superior If I actually wanted to waste my time and was that easy to please.
Yes that is the equivalent of trying to be the voice of reason on 4chan which makes you seem like a holier than thou faggot especially when you, as you say, "Try to tell people they aren't entitled to force their opinion" on a site where that is the norm for most arguments; One person trying to convince he is right and the other isn't.
>>77357608
Jeph Jacques is hugely adverse to criticism, anon.
He calls his Fora and his Subreddit toxic because they don't give him unanimous praise.
Let me break this down for you: his reddit and his fora are incredibly supportive of him and only off minor, if any, criticisms.
That's how thin his skin is.
Also, /co/ is a wash in constructive criticism concerning Jacques. The look at his art, talk about how he can improve it; they talk about how his stories are bland, repetitive, and lack any semblance of tact and suggest ways he could improve them easily.
Even the QC General on 4chan generally liked Jacques at one point.
I'm really the only exception, and they hate me.
Hell, even I've suggested a few different things Jeph could do to instantly improve his writing, and I think his comic is terrible and a half.
>>77357608
jeff plz leave
>>77357641
That's hardly, and I mean absolutely not, related to him not accepting criticism. If anyone who ever had stress problems had them because he didn't take criticism, then there must be a shit ton of people out there very busy giving unwanted advice to people. It is also relevant to the topic to say, once again, that criticism is not telling people to go fuck themselves, or that it was this outlet criticism, of pointing at others and laughing for the sake of feeling better about oneself, that drove the fucker to self injury. Making this all the more ridiculous an argument.
>>77357669
Make me faggot, I am here to say what you don't want to hear. The more the better.
>>77357681
Well isn't that the whole point of what I am saying?
You can look at me with those eyes, but can't tell how much it is the same to look at others from a fake pedestal made out of self righteousness.
I am not specially fixed on this topic, I am just obsessive compulsive, and I believe this is without a shadow of doubt the very definition of hypocrisy.
So what If I believe an anon can be better than that? Fuck it if people want to believe I do it for anything other than the inability to accept anyone would ever want to go against logic consciously.
>>77357525
he's self inserting really hard on the tranny character lately, so there's fairly good odds he wants to be a pretty pretty princess
>>77357812
Did he really unironically use the "cheeto dust neckbeard" thing against someone who doesn't like piercings
>>77357846
his twitter is full of comedy gold
>>77357828
>That's hardly, and I mean absolutely not, related to him not accepting criticism.
You don't know him. He isn't here. Stop defending him. He doesn't need it. Go to bed.
>>77357812
Your Tattoos look bad because you're a fucking tool who thinks they'll give you a personality, you hack.
>>77357812
>What? someone said something not nice about me? Better put this faceless stranger on blast on my social media page!
Don't kid yourselves. If most of you too could make money of out mediocre stories that you enjoyed doing, and that somehow a lot of people liked and paid for, you'd go for it all the way. Whether you realize it or not, you're envious.
>>77357769
>He calls his Fora and his Subreddit toxic because they don't give him unanimous praise.
So what? That means you are entitled to call him names and then claim you are protected under the safe criticism treaty?
>Also, /co/ is a wash in constructive criticism concerning Jacques. The look at his art, talk about how he can improve it; they talk about how his stories are bland, repetitive, and lack any semblance of tact and suggest ways he could improve them easily.
Had you ever actually been on a QC thread? Because I can't help but think you hadn't. This is so much not what a QC thread is like it is almost ridiculous.
A QC thread is 1 dash of people that complain by saying "10k a month", a big spoon of people that say the drawing are bad, not in any particular way other than just saying it or claiming the drwaing were getting better up to "x" day, a mouthful of people that both say the story goes nowhere and that Jeph is always pulling shit up, some actuall discussion of the topic, that amounts mostly to hating all characters, a good serving of porn, and ofcourse then a ton of Tranny talk.
>>77357812
>>77357862
So he is a shitty person, who gives A SHIT. Why is it such an obsession if not because of jealousy? And do you not notice how adversely people are reacting to me barely talking against what they believe, how would you react to a shit ton of people talking shit about you all day? I am not saying he is justified, I am just saying that it is easy to blame whatever you don't like for your problems, and probably the easiest way to escape self loathing.
Furthermore, this thread reminds me of a bunch of old ladies on neighbor talking trash about the gal that married a rich dude. You are like a bunch of old wives, I swear.
>>77357112
Im guessing their character just oozes through their work because it's often also their soapbox.
When the work isn't obvious masturbation, it's way harder to do that.
>>77357245
Nobody ever disses the kind people at Oglaf.
>>77357278
>you're in denial
>no I'm not
>see?
Really?
>>77357862
>Please don't humor my self pity
>But I'm going to whine on twitter because I secretly want the gratification
>>77357890
Meh, I don't really care about how much moneys Jeph's fans give him. Stupid people deserve to have their money go to slightly less stupid people who can exploit them.
I'm not going to go on huge rants about how Patreon should be shut down because people like Hacques and Diaz profiteer off it.
I prefer to look at the good in it, like the fact that tom Siddell and Ashley Cope can make money off their comics. I wish they made more than Jeph and Willis, but, hey, pandering pays.
>>77357905
>So what? That means you are entitled to call him names and then claim you are protected under the safe criticism treaty
No, I can call him names because I can say anything I like, Justified or not.
That's part'o muh fredums.
I only said that to show you that jeph is entirely thin skinned even against people with legitimate criticisms who actually like, and still like, his works.
Those are the people he acknowledges as toxic to him, the ones that actually like him.
He can't even fathom people like 4chan who generally think any decent art coming out of him stopped years ago.
>>77357519
I'm sure the irony here escapes you entirely.
>>77357608
Everybody has the right to write what they want, it doesn't have to be good or please me, and everybody else has the right to say what they want about that piece, it doesn't have to meet your standards for what you consider to be good criticism.
It's funny how things work, eh?
I don't like QC but Jeph doesn't deserve to be lumped in with Dobson, B^uckley, or other insufferable webcomic artists. He actually used to be cool (we were online acquaintances).
Jeph, Ryan North, KC Green and a lot of other webcomic artists just basically had to shift to the crazy PC/anti-criticism mindset to stay relevant. Now they are all obviously trapped in that mindset and are terrified of the SJWs turning on them, which naturally leads to them adopting the SJW way of thinking.
I used to enjoy his stuff but now ugh. I can't stand this guy, seriously.
All that blatant self-inserting and pandering and really, really shitty art.
It doesn't seem like it should be too hard to not be hated on the internet.
All it seems like people want is a little humility.
>>77358089
Is like talking to a wall. All that matters is that you want to talk shit about somebody, so logic be damned, and anyone that speaks against it is being hypocritical.
I mean, otherwise define Irony, because this clearly doesn't fit. All I am telling you is that this doesn't make sense, and I am not about to let anyone here think they are making sense if they are not.
So what? By telling people they are making no sense with their fake criticism I am inquiring in irony. How mutherfucker? explain properly too.
I never said you are not allowed to criticise people, not in any of the multiple answer I wasted my time writing, just that claiming baseless arguments are real criticism is ridiculous, or that attacking somebody out of jealousy and believe you have the higher ground is not something one should do consciously.
>>77358036
>No, I can call him names because I can say anything I like, Justified or not.
This I can accept and even celebrate, so long as people acep they are talking shit for the simple sake of talking shit. Who gives a crap anyway.
>>77358152
What are you? Stupid?
Because it comes down to that if that's all you can say about this topic.
To begin with with that logic I can go ahead and talk shit about you over this topic all the same, and by censuring or ignoring me you are being hypocritical on your principles, but what really ticks here is that there is difference on claiming you have some sort of superior point of view without real logic to back it up and to simply say whatever you want about somebody.
Don't expect people to just agree with you if you actually want to offer and opinion, I don't agree with this crazy custom of talking shit while believing to have some sort of truth backing you up.
>>77358025
Funny how you use a Strawmen against that argument. Real funny.
>>77357890
Is that really the whole argument? "This comic isn't bad because (insert ad hominem about critics)"?
Let me tell you this fellow anons of /co/. Fuck you all. I won't ever back down on my conviction that it is childish and pathetic to make public enemy out of somebody that doesn't even know you exist, specially out clear as fuck jealousy.
But I do work 7 days a week, so I will go to sleep and let a bunch of comments that ignore the base point of the argument be made to keep on justifying a ridiculous endeavor such as a witch hunt.
Enjoy your evening.
>>77358165
>He actually used to be cool
That used to is very important.
>>77358211
Look at Tom Siddell, Ashley Cope, Katie Tiedrich, Ronnie, or Tracy Butler.
All you need is not to be a huge, opinionated dickwad who can't take the banter, especially when the banter is legitimate criticism.
People who defend Willis, Jeph, and all the other retards who think drawing a crappy comics makes them infallible gods, say that /co/ shits on every webcomicker out of jealousy or creative impotence forgets that /co/ tends to only hate the assholes while liking those who make good comics and are amiable towards their fanbases.
It only seems that way because talking about things that are bad is a lot easier than maintaining praise for something that's good.
It's why there are a million Bendis threads a year, and only a handful of Mignola ones.
>>77358286
sweet dreams, jeff. don't let the handstabs bite
>>77358286
The important thing is that may manage to feel superior to both by just sitting on the fence, senpai.
>>77358237
The irony being that you are very much keen on jamming your opinion down our throats with use of insults, an opinion about how people should express themselves and what is a proper expression of opinion.
If you can't see the irony in that by yourself, I can't help you.
Now stop with the projection, it ain't healthy.
>>77358237
Of course you can talk shit to me on this topic, this was heavily implied. You seem to be the only one here struggling with that notion.
I'm not censoring or ignoring you, I'm disagreeing.
Nigga seriously read your posts, the hypocrisy is staggering. I sincerely hope you're at least partially conscious of that.
>>77356335
>Become more successful than the NEET faggots that hate him.
Underrated post.
>>77357968
>Why is it such an obsession if not because of jealousy?
Because this place isn't a hugbox and we shit on people.
Don't like it nigga close the thread. Nigga walk away.
>>77358286
I have literally never criticized that webcomic artist, but I'll definitely defend the right of my /co/mrades to say wtv the fuck they want about him.
Go fuck yourself.
>>77358473
You're a genuine freedom fighter, Anon.
I tip my Guy Fawkes mask to you.
>people are genuinely upset that we call spades spades
Doing it for free, folks.
>>77358545
Good for you, nice meme.
Shitty artist as he is, I kinda like deathm0le.
>>77358599
Eh, Deathm0le sounds like the stock music you'd find under the Heavy Metal folder of a built in OS movie maker
>>77355682
>Why is it so hard for people on /co/ to let others enjoy what they don't like?
Like shitting on some worthless fatso for drawing a garbage comic
If you think his comic isn't garbage, then by your own logic you don't have to join in, but keep your retarded mouth shut you fucking faggot
I don't know who this is. But he's fat, so I already don't like him.
>>77357342
What a fucking prick. The fact that he gets money for his equally shitty web comic is beyond me.
>>77355682
>>77357342
The fact that diaz doesn't have an ED article to himself yet is a waste, he'd have a public tantrum the instant it comes up in his daily google self-search
>>77354674
He needs to lose at least like 30lbs. God fat people are disgusting.
>>77358447
>this place isn't a hugbox
Have a read through the Prequel thread and try saying that with a straight face.
>>77354674
He looks like a middle aged dad who's trying to do an undercover sting operation at his kids' high school to see who's on the drugs.
>>77355682
>Why is it so hard for people on /co/ to let others enjoy what they don't like?
Why is it so hard for you to let us enjoy what we like, mocking hacks?
>There is no bad publicity
>Shit-talk contributes to these people's exposure
>Sarkeesian built a career out of it
Fueling controversy is exactly what they want, you're making them richer.
>>77354674
Moloch whose mind is pure kekoldry!
Moloch whose twitter is taunting replies!
Moloch whose teeth are ten thousand RSS feeds!
Moloch whose stare is blank and thoughtless!
Moloch whose body is rolled t-shirts!
Moloch of the self-inflicted stigmata!
Pandering Moloch! Talentless Moloch! Uninspired Moloch whose account I troll lonely!
>>77357216
>That's just bait
>Default /co answer to all criticism
You just proved his point, you do get that right?
Webcomic people are among the worst parasites on this world. Pretty much any of us could write (and draw) better comics than they do but wouldn't get paid nearly as much pareon bux by the SJW snowflakes because we wouldn't steep as low as to shoehorn trannies and various fags into every possible part of the "story".
>>77363709
>Webcomic people are among the worst parasites on this world. Pretty much any of us could write (and draw) better comics than they do but wouldn't get paid nearly as much pareon bux by the SJW snowflakes because we wouldn't steep as low as to shoehorn trannies and various fags into every possible part of the "story".
At this point talking shit about webcomic artists equals talking shit on comic artists. There isn't just QC and CAD.
>>77361669
I'm with you in Northampton
where the signal boosts don't reach
I'm with you in Northampton
where The Bitter End is a burnt husk
I'm with you in Northampton
where the ambulance raced towards your shame
>>77361471
So how come Dobson's getting poorer?
>>77364097
Probably because people are starting to not give a shit.
>>77354674
I dislike his comic, seems unfunny and pointless.
But I love more seeing 4chan mad, than I hate his comic, so I wish he becomes very sucefull.
>>77357278
>I would love to see an anon accept that much even once.
Looking at /hyw/, "anons" tend to be very good at accepting criticism with two exceptions that come to mind
What would happen if they collaborated?
>>77354674
10k/month.
>/co/ will NEVER stop giving these hacks attention
Even /v/ learned to ignore people, why can't this place?
>>77365887
Spitefags truly are the bottom of the barrel creatures.
>>77366065
I am just spiteful to a different thing than you.
>>77366065
I love seeing you this mad.
>>77354674
>Note his blank, thoughtless stare
>blank
>not seeing the grief and despair
>>77358293
>Bendis
Bendis? The cartoonist, Bendis?
>>77367651
The Radiohead album you silly
>>77368056
Oh, Radiohead, the band Radiohead. Radiohead? The band?
>>77368192
Yes, the band, not The Band.
>>77368192
...the Bender?
>>77366034
/v/ doesn't ignore anyone.
Anyone with any negative opinion about those people is purged.
It's literally the origin ofeight-chan.
You literally can't even write 8(nospacehere)chan
Jeph Jacques is making well over twice 10k a month, and he's been doing so for over 8 years. He isn't going away, just like George Lucas wouldn't go away if you ignored the prequels.
He's here, he's shit, and it deserves to be noted.
>>77358286
Truth. When it comes to hating on webcomics they deem shit, /co/ only seems to get exceptionally salty when the webcomic creators get success and/or money from it. The jealously is palatable.
>>77358473
lol. Mate, this is an anonymous image board. No one is gonna stop that Anon from saying what they want to say, but that doesn't mean an Anon (or anonymous attitudes) can't be criticized.
>>77368512
>The jealously is palatable
You've let your ignorance blind you, my son.
Not only does /co/ feel good when its favorite writers, like these guys in >>77358293, get moneys, they also hate douchebags who make like zero money.
People like Jack Chick, and Dobson, who makes less than 150 USD on Patreon.
But by all means, ignore that and continue to push your ignorant narrative.
>>77355682
>Why is it so hard for people on /co/ to let others enjoy what they don't like?
Who is doing this and how? How does anything that /co/ does prevent anyone from being able to enjoy what they enjoy?
>Why is it so hard to understand that something being "objectively" bad is ridiculous by its own nature?
A fairly universal consensus is pretty much as best to an objective truth you can get when it comes to art, but then that's the word you chose to use, just a general consensus is not anyone saying it's objective truth.
>Why must /co/ be so hypocritical and have so little self criticism that they blame anyone that is tired of this bulshit of being an ass kisser?
What the hell are you talking about, self criticism, in what regards?
>Does it affect anyone, ever, who doesn't actively goes out of his way to follow what he draws?
What are you saying here? You could say the same thing about almost all other content discussed on /co/.
So criticism should be based on how easily avoided something is?
>>77366034
>Even /v/ learned to ignore people
no they didn't.
>>77355682
Well said, I personally tip my hat to anyone who makes a living drawing anthro animals in diapers or webcomics about anthros playing video games or LGBT issues.
Well met, good sirs.
I wonder when your parents will stop sighing whenever you walk into the room.
>>77361471
>showing him attention on 4chan will make him richer
>implying 4chan matters
You give us too much credit. There are plenty of things /co/ gives a lot of attention without much effect.
>>77357812
can somebody plz find my sides. I have misplaced them
>>77371828
...irony not one of his strong points I take it.
>>77371873
nope.
>>77357968
I'm just here for the edits.
>>77371828
Or he'll call you a faggot and you'll stab your own hand like a mongoloid
>>77371828
I imagine if you tell anybody their opinion doesn't matter based on the colour of their skin they aren't going to be very happy with you.
Man, the rising number of mentally ill self-hating white guys is depressing.
>>77371828
Jeph, your opinion isn't welcome.
>>77354674
Every time I see somebody with piercings I can't help but hope they walk near an extremely powerful magnet.
How many years/months/days til Handstabby comes out as trans?
>>77355682
People like you are the reason /co/ has the lowest standards of any board.
>>77368566
Yeah that was pretty much my point.
>>77372488
Is it really a problem we don't pretend to hate everything like /v/ does?
I mean we already pretend to hate a lot of stuff.
This thread is gold, thank you OP.
Seeing this shit staring smugly and in poor taste fashion gives me hope for the webcomic series I want to start.
Pandering is the last thing I want to do. I think the best way to go about releasing content is to keep it real and you can't do that by being a kekold.
>>77354674
That description is pretty good for a friend whos an actual webcomic'er....
stop being spooky, /co/
>>77368740
>fucking channers, they ruin everything! That girl that drew steven universe stuff attempted suicide because of 4chan trolls!
>>77373278
Wait, they tried to blame 4chan for what TUMBLR did?
>>77357838
>face drawn from the same angle
>in each cell
Holy shit
Eh.
The only reason I'm starting a webcomic is because no editors so I don't see your point.
>trying to live off your webcomic's ads
iLaugh
>>77359404
Why not start one?
