I just watched the 1967 Jungle Book again for the first time since I was like, 5 or 6, just so I could watch the new one and see where they got some of their inspiration from and what they changed.
However, in the end, I was left with one... 'burning'... question: why did this bastard want man's red fire so much? Did he secretly fear the wrath of Shere Khan? Did he think that because he, as an orangutan, might be in the tiger's line of fire, being a genetic relative of man? Or was he afraid that his affinity for human culture had reached the vile ear of the Khan? Was he looking past the tyrant tiger instead, and wanting to create a feudal state in the jungle? Was he actually looking to increase his despotism beyond the peasantry of mere monkeys, and dictate the will of all other forms of life in the forest? Could Khan have been his only obstacle on the road to absolute power, and hence he required fire to drive out this striped menace?
There seems to be a left unexplored in this film regarding the ape's plans for conquest.
How will they play this in the 2016 movie? Surely he won't need man's red fire to drive out Shere Khan, he's 12 feet tall and could easily rip the cat in half with minimal effort. I just found out, also, that he's a fucking Giganthopithecus in this movie, instead of an orangutan (which I suppose is better since it was bothering me that orangutans aren't native to Mowgli's homeland of India).
Any thoughts on these matters?
>>81571612
>not listening to the song
He wanted fire so he could be a man. He wanted out of the jungle and into human civilization.
>>81571994
I listened to the song. Why fire specifically? What made him want to be out of the jungle and and become a man?
And I feel like the connection between Shere Khan's one fear being man's red fire and Louie's need to obtain the secrets of it are too good to be a coincidence. Did the news of Khan's return drive him to push towards humanity, tired of being dictated by a feline? I guess what I meant to imply in the OP was did he want the fire to be like a man, "being a man" meaning to spread his power across the land? Did he think that his close ancestors, the humans, better represented his ideals as a 'king', and decided that joining their ranks would overall increase his influence in the jungle, as all creatures in the forest fear man, and fear their fire, especially a potential adversary that he saw in Shere Khan?
>>81572361
you might understand it better if you think of him as being "uppity"the whole bit and theme is said to be racist
>>81572481
I can hardly picture him as being 'uppity'. He seems more like a master strategist who hides his powerlevel under the guise of being a laid-back groove-junkie. He is an ape, after all.
And I've heard about the racism accusations before. Bullshit, does anybody actually think that these people where trying to be racist doing this chucklefuck of a kid's musical? There might have been certain themes underneath the joyful tones (including reasons why Louie wanted man's red fire), but it certainly wasn't the nine old men just hating on the negroes. Do anything in popular media that involves an ape or monkey and people who need some dumb shit to bitch about (SJWs, PC dicksuckers, etc.) will call it "racist". I guess that makes them the fucking racists after all.
>>81572361
It's a pretty common idea that fire is what defined man
>>81572361
The secret of creating fire is something unique to man, and traditionally it's believed that man discovering how to create and control fire is what led to the development of human civilization. That's also what inspired the story of Prometheus.
>>81572361
You seem autistic or at the very least stupid seeing as how you're going this in-depth for a kids movie.
If you want your questions answered go read the book.
>>81573071
King Louie doesn't exist in the book. The monkeys didn't have any central leader.
>>81571612
Read the book.
>>81573004
>>81573065
And we're sure that his need for man's red fire, alongside being the trait that separated humans from animals, had nothing to do with Khan's return to the forest?
>>81573071
>go read the book
>doesn't even know that King Louie was made just for the movie
and here you call me autistic
>>81571612
He explains it in the song. He kept wanting to be more and more untiln he was leader of the monkeys and could not go any higher. He wanted to be bigger than that. And the only way to do that is to have man's advantage over all the animals.
He wanted to be king of the world eventually.
If he knew what fire was (and wasn't) then he probably wouldn't need to be told how to make it. To him, fire is some kind of magical, mystical secret and if he were to be given that secret then he would be as man.
He didn't want to strengthen his strangle-hold on the jungle for (at least in his eyes) he already controlled the jungle. He wanted to ascend to greater heights (the heights of man).
>>81573199
>>81573071
>>81573276
>And we're sure that his need for man's red fire, alongside being the trait that separated humans from animals, had nothing to do with Khan's return to the forest?
There's a thematic connection, but Louie's motivation has nothing to do with Khan.
>>81573371
I'm thinking they might have more questions about Louie's motivation after reading it.
Like...was there one...was there a Louie....did anyone ever talk about fire at all?
>>81572481
It's not supposed to be racist. King Louis is based on his voice actor Louis Prima, down to his manurisms and there's even a joke to his fondness for fat women when Baloo dresses up. Prima is Italian. There's nothing about him that's supposed to be a caricature of black people. It's just people looking into things too much
Did any of these book people ever wonder why Louie has such a westernized name?
>>81573276
It's only thematic.
They use him and his song to establish fire as being 'the thing man can use', setting up for the ending. Anything further is headcanon (which is fine, just gotta be aware that the writers didnt intend it).
>>81573306
>>81573316
>>81573422
All solid points, thank you for engaging in actual conversation instead of throwing insults and buzzwords.
Now let's settle something about what would happen if King Louie did gain the power of man's red fire. I've composed a crude formula:
man+fire > ape
man-fire < ape
ape+fire >>> man
Could any force on Earth stop King Louie if he gained the power of fire?
>>81572361
Are you autistic?
He was a stupid monkey who probably didn't even know what he was going to do with the fire, just that it would get him more power if he had it.
And given the rest of the film, his talk about wanting to become more like a human was bullshit. He just didn't want to tell Mowgli "teach me fire so I can have more power".
>>81573613
Probably the exact reason why the gods did not want primitive humans to have it. They cannot be trusted to be able to control it at all and likely burn everything down and kill the whole jungle.
Did anybody watch the animated series? I mean it was made decades after the movie and by different people but I think Louie was the main protagonist and a lot of episodes dealt with his training to become king.
>in the books, Kaa was one of Mowgli's mentors and best friends
>Disney was afraid people wouldn't accept a heroic snake
>in the book Kaa danced to hypnotize the Bangar-Lur
>Disney made him have hypno-eyes
>in the book Kaa was the most feared and respected creature in the jungle
>Disney made him an ineffective creator of hypnosis and vore fetishes
Disney sucks.
>>81573672
No, he's being somewhat honest about that. Humans are the king big shits of the world, and Louie wants to be more powerful, therefore imitating humans is the way to go.
Naturally, he hasn't really thought this through, since he expects a jungle-raised human to know how to make fire.
>>81574071
On a positive note, I really like how Kaa was animated in that movie. So smooth and flowey... and I think the hypnosis thing may have come from the myth that people used to believe in that large constrictors had to hypnotize their prey because they were too big and arm-less to overwhelm and catch it themselves.
At least I recall hearing that at one point, not sure if it's true
>>81574735
Many animals freeze when they sense danger, which gave rise to the idea that snakes can hypnotize prey into standing still waiting to be eaten.
I agree that Kaa does look and move amazingly in the new movie, and is so huge that she's theatening. I just hope she's not a villain this time, though with Louie being in it they likely will emulate Disney more than the books.
>>81573613
>Could any force on Earth stop King Louie if he gained the power of fire?
1 billion lions
>>81571612
It seems to me it works on multiple levels.
Louie has reached the top as an ape and thinks if he learns the secret of fire, he can be like a man, and advance still further.
He also knows Shere Khan hates man with a vengeance, and achieving his goal of being like a man would likely draw the tiger's ire. But if he becomes like a man through mastering fire, Louie and his people now have the power the tiger fears and are safe from his wrath.
>>81574071
I also did like how they described fighting Kaa as like being attacked by a battering ram or a lance with a cool, calculating brain driving it. Kaa was a frigging badass.
>>81573988
Damn I completely forgot about this show.
>>81571612
Distant relatives?
>>81573850
http://www.outdoorhub.com/news/2016/02/10/study-birds-are-setting-forests-aflame-by-using-fire-for-hunting/
>>81571994
This
/thread
>>81575469
Maybe.
I don't know how you can be old enough to browse this site and not understand something so basic. He literally tells you everything you need to know.
He's hot shit in the jungle, but he's reached the ceiling as far as animals go and knows that he's only hot garbage compared to man. He's aware of man's ability to create fire and, to him, that distinguishes man and elevates him above all other creatures. His logic is if you can make fire, you are a man, and conversely if you are a man, you can make fire, which is why he assumes Mowgli can do it. Ergo, learn to make fire, become a man, elevate yourself. It doesn't make sense but he's a dumb animal. That's the point.
>>81575044
But can one billion lions beat one of every Pokemon?
>>81571612
Anyone else terrified of Louie? For all his rhythmic buffoonery he was actually really threatening. Just grabbing Mowgli and swinging him around like a doll. It didn't help that the song sounds the most sinister when he does this. He could have effortlessly torn that kid to pieces.
>>81573613
Madara Uchiha
>>81576647
Whoever is making the new Jungle Book movie seems to have gotten that memo.
>>81576750
The way we are shown Mowgly barely biting a papaya too big for him and then Louie throwing several papayas inside his mouth like they are popcorn was disturbing.
Would you teach him to make fire, /co/?
Would you fear what he may do to the jungle if you agree?
Would you fear what he may do to you if you refuse?
>>81577395
Louie is a dumb monkey. You don't actually have to teach him anything, just distract him long enough to get away or brain him with a rock. Tell him he can make fire by jumping off a cliff. He'd probably do it, the absolute mad-ape.
Advance reviews have confirmed Christopher Walken sings I Wanna Be Like You in-film.
Didn't Louie's VA's wife stonewall any and all future appearances of Louie after he was in Tale Spin and she didn't get royalties from the new VA doing a good impression of her husband?
>>81578148
I'd pay full price to see that scene alone.
>>81573613
The sun on vacation to earth.
