Why does this make you so angry /co/?
>>78420616
Because the character being a girl doesn't automatically make them a good character. Too many girl characters don't have an identity beyond they are a girl so everything comes back to that.
When you write a character they have more than their gender or skin or religion as an identity and too many writers are just, ",Look a girl, buy our comic, videogame, book, movie"
And that's worse than objectifying or not even having them, because it just makes them look bad because they aren't important and do nothing.
It doesn't?
dont bait plz
where is that sentiment directed towards. can't you create female characters on your own?
Are they implying their own characters aren't good
>>78420639
This, the people demanding women or minority characters don't actually want them.
If so they would be trying to get NEW characters, the latest have just be people passing the mantle and then the characters do nothing the previous person would do.
Look at Miles Morales, he has no reason to exist, because he's always trying to be Peter. If the person changes but the way they act doesn't, what was the point of the change.
And the biggest fault is they refuse to buy Comics for the female or minority characters, Birds of Prey was one of the best examples of why these people don't care beyond being outraged.
It was a series entirely about female Heroes being competent on their own, no one bought it and it died. She Hulk, had an AMAZING run, no one bought it so it died.
They don't actually care about women characters, they just want to be outraged all the time, eespecially when they add them and shout, "Its unrealistic"
If you want more stories about women, make them, if you want them about minorities make them, don't get mad when someone else does because you don't like it and don't get mad if someone doesn't, because they are not required to make art to your liking.
>>78420616
Gender is a social construct.
>>78420635
>Because the character being a girl doesn't automatically make them a good character.
That's the point Anon.
>create some decent girl characters
>>78420616
because tokenism never worked for anyone
>>78420616
because she still has clothes on while we video chat on omegle
;-)
>>78420616
Flawed female characters draw way more ire than just not having many female characters in the first place so it's always a tossup between having an interesting cast with barely any females or having a realistically gendered cast but most of the females are mary sues because women can't stand themselves being depicted as anything other than flawless goddesses.
>That Episode of Arthur when Buster's mom catches him wearing a dress and castrates him
>>78420726
you are starting to give me a boner anon
>you wouldn't like me when I have a boner
>>78420684
well what happens is the same people that want those "real characters" just end up writing those "no character beyond being a woman" types
then critics lament there arent any decent female characters and the people writing the cardboard cutouts join in even though theyre part of the problem
the real solution is to write a good character that happens to be a woman, same way you make decent gay characters (i.e. good characters that just happen to be gay)
unless the focus of the plot is gender or sexuality, gender and sexuality are irrelevant and should be considered as such. this isnt to say "hurr well if gender doesnt matter why cant they be men" but more to point out that it shouldnt be any harder to write a female or gay character than male or straight
>>78420726
>That episode of Arthur where Fern dyes her hair and tells Mr. Ratburn the way he teaches the class is too "problematic" and "oppresive" for the students of color
Let's talk about the real issues in Arthur.
Did they fuck?
>>78420616
>Ad populum
There are already a great deal of well conceived women characters though.
>>78420848
Did these two fuck
>>78420684
>Just make a decent female character!
Female characters will always be under multiple layers of scrutiny in terms of characterization and presentation. There's such a thing as a female character being TOO aggressive and heroic, since that would imply the only way to make a female hero is to make her like a male hero. At the same time, feminine traits are demonized as signs of weakness, so trying to make distinctions from the male hero mold is still going to be met with resistance.
I still think it's important for creators to try to make good female characters, but I think a lot of people just don't want to deal with the politics involved when they could just write about another dude.
>>78420879
They're both autistic so it's more than likely
>>78420616
Because turning almost every new female character into Mary Sue's is cheap and should honestly be insulting to women given how much they hate to be held to impossible standards.
Take your bait and go to reddit, faggot.
>>78420882
>Feminist Frequency
Even on /co/ I can't escape this cunt and her cuck overlord
>>78420818
Which is why they're saying create some decent girl characters. Do you understand yet?
Regardless of whether or not more diversity in comics/cartoons is a good thing, the people who are actually vocal about supporting it are a terrible audience to cater to.
>>78420909
It was merely an example of the indecisiveness of "feminists" (Anita is not feminist in the slightest) on one subject of female character design.
>>78420898
decent girl ≠mary sue
Let a chick write them. Then if they turn out to be shit, it's not our fault. Chicks do write comics, ya know.
But it will still be our fault.
>>78420931
Yeah, but that is kinda their point.
Claiming Sexismus no matter what is happening.
Their worst bane is their own success, though.
Because it means people get more careful to not offend, which destroys Anita's business model.
So she is forced to develop a response for every eventuality, making it impossible to satisfy her demands.
She is not indecisive, she depends on being capable of righteous bluster.
I'm sort of fed up with people asking for specific things to be a part of some piece of media in general.
Whether it's whining that the chick in the Dragon's Lair movie will not be as sexy or whether it's whining that this grrrl character isn't power enough, they can all go fuck themselves for all I care.
Be happy or unhappy with the media you consume but ffs don't try to direct the creative process, it's not like there aren't tons of shit that already pander to your specific favored fetishes, political leanings or >tropes.
There's only two ways to respond to this:
>It wouldn't make me money
>You write it
Feminism that relies on asking men to do things that for some reason women are incapable of doing for themselves is a phallic fallacy.
>>78420916
Except, it doesn't matter if the character is Male or female, they just need to be good characters. So people bitching that they need more female characters needs to get off their lazy ass and make them themselves.
Don't put it on other people to make the characters you want, I don't tell an artist what to make unless I'm paying them, if I want something specific I pay the person to make it for me or I do it myself.
This is a bunch of whining bitches who aren't even buying the product that they say they want.
If they can just as easily make a female characters but made a male, that's their choice and if you don't like it, do it yourself.
>>78420909
If your audience doesn't include women, is it possible to just straight up come out as a misogynist and still do well?
>>78421061
yes, this is what comedians have been doing for years
>>78421000
>>78421004
That is nonsense.
That is like telling people who want less poison in their food to grow their own, or to tell people demanding safety measures for cars to build it by themselves.
It's just not feasible to do so.
You can't just do by yourself whatever you would like to have.
Especially when there are giant industries on the job anyway.
No matter what you cobble together, you can't rival Disney's releases. Let alone break into big budget productions with a decent chance of being seen by anyone.
It is far easier to gather support among consumers and ask for changes to the product because that is the side you have leverage with.
Companies depend on consumers so changes in the interest of sales numbers are hard to resist.
And once consumer interests are established, companies will take them into account on their own.
This has happened ever since the industrialization.
The problem now is professional complainers with no real interest in the product. How do you tell legitimate points from bullshit claims?
And with participation being a click away, creators now face contradictory demands on all sides.
So now we see bad compromise and confused reactions in an attempt to meet criticism that comes from people who do criticism for a living and can never be satisfied lest they need to find another job.
The problem is not consumer demands being articulated but professional victimhood.
>>78421121
>That is like telling people who want less poison in their food to grow their own
false equivalence
>>78421061
Cerebus.
>>78421121
Except it has nothing to do with safety, but entirely with personal preference. There's no reason to enforce personal preference like there is safety.
>>78421121
>How do you tell legitimate points from bullshit claims?
Market research, probably.
>you can't rival Disney's releasesCorporate shill.
>That is like telling people who want less poison in their food to grow their own, or to tell people demanding safety measures for cars to build it by themselves.
Except comics and cartoons are not necessary. One is free to stop consuming them if one does not like them. This idea that you HAVE to consume something is what creates problems.
>>78421145
It is not.
It's brushing off consumer demand by telling them to make their own when the attempt will predictably fail or prove too costly.
Also there are women who managed to get into positions and are producing media by now, but that is a process taking decades of development to bring about substantial change on the systemic level.
It is absolutely reasonable to ask for some concessions to 50% of the population in the meantime.
Again, this doesn't mean I condone bending good characters out of shape or following unreasonable demands.
Yet, asking for more female Avengers in the movies is not unreasonable or hard to follow up on, for example.
It's all just a question of how you ask, what you ask for and whether you are satisfied if your demands are met.
ENTERTAINERS SERVING A MARKET THAT ALREADY SUPPORTS THEM HAVE TO CHANGE WHAT THEY DO TO CATER TO ME. I AM ENTITLED TO THIS BECAUSE I HAVE A VAGINA GOD DAMNIT
>>78420931
>anita is not feminist in the slightest
no true scotsman, not all feminists are like that, etc.
>>78421266
you can make whatever you want and put it on tumblr and da. that's how creativity works.
you can't have a big budget franchise customized to someone's standards. that's true for nobody.
"let's toss in a character for each audience segment" results in a lame, artificial work. there should be a reason for each character to actually be there.
>>78420882
The only female character feminists like is "I'M A STRON INDERPENDENT WOMNAN WHO NO NEED NO MAN!!!"
It creates the least drama, so that's why they write them.
>>78420709
>>78420616
But half of the people on Earth aren't girls, actually. China has like what, 11 boys for every 10 girls right now? Some other country has 5 boys for every 4 girls, but that is some country where women are property or something, like in the Middle East. Countries that have men being more important in society have more men.
Actually, after asking Google, there are around 107 men for every 100 girls. Thanks for killing chicks for simply not being a guy, China and other countries. Some men are just destined to never get married or have a girlfriend from that point of view.
>>78421170
>>78421194
An interest is an interest.
Just because it doesn't kill you doesn't mean you can't question something.
It would be a very valid cause to petition for Squirrel Girl to be made less shit.
Cyberbullying the artist is another thing, but you can always try and voice your concerns collectively.
If you think there are not enough white dudes in comics, you can ask for more Dick, no problem. Companies produce for consumers, you are one. Pleasing you is what you pay them for.
I fail to see the problem, really. It's not like Marvel or DC are about free artistic expression or anything so lofty.
>>78421273
Don't be a bitch. When you see evil, slay it.
>>78421266
Consumer demand exists to make a company money, in the eyes of the company. So if this so called demand doesn't lead to money, then it can be outright ignored, unless it has some affect on the target market.
If you truly care about something, you'll slave for it and outlast others for it. You won't put it into the hands of someone who begrudgingly accepts it, because you're going to end up with shit.
>>78421309
It's not that women are property, it's that they're expensive. In China, for example, boys are expected to become self-sufficient in young adulthood, whereas parents are expected to take care of their girls at that age if need be. Also, men have the responsibility of caring for their parents when they get older, and women don't. You'll notice female infanticide is more common in the poorer populations, because they have the hardest time taking care of females.
>>78421266
i don't think you know what false equivalence is, potentially dying isn't the same thing as not getting what you want
>>78421121
you have no clue how demographics and target audiences work
Say I want to write a short story about WW1 trench soldiers. There are no women in it. Is this wrong? Should I add a female soldier for diversity's sake, despite it being historically inaccurate? Should I shoehorn in a segment where they meet a farm girl and make her a huge part of the story where she takes down enemy soldiers with her wit and charm? Or can I just write the story I want?
To go one step further, say I'm writing a fantasy story now. It's the same tone as the historically accurate WW1 story, so I want it to just be about guys being guys. Does there need to be women? Because it's "fantasy", am I forced to add women in it, despite wanting to focus specifically on male camaraderie?
I'm not a /pol/-tard. I don't want to be problematic, but at the same time I'd like the freedom to write about whatever the hell I want without having to go through a checklist first.
>>78421348
>I'd like the freedom to write about whatever the hell I want
You have that freedom. The question is will you trade that freedom for cash?
>>78421363
There is no cash in appealing to tumbler
As said before, all attempts are financial failures
They don't really read in great numbers, they just poke their heads in to complain
>>78421294
I did not claim anything to the contrary.
Of course demands do not automatically warrant you meeting them. The companies obviously must weigh them.
But if you think there is something wrong, why should you not just for change? Maybe you will be heard.
>>78421329
No need to be so dramatic. You don't need to dedicate your life to everything you think is in need of doing.
Just organising a group and formulating your demands will mostly do.
That is not the prerogative of SJWs.
And companies are full of people who are often happy enough to talk to reasonable people with reasonable petitions.
>>78421348
Of course you can make an all-male story if you want (though you could easily throw in a nurse or a cook or an ambulance driver if you wanted to, or have a scene on the home front)
But if you want to make a story set in a modern day high school or office, having no female characters will be odd to say the least.
On topic: it's really both weird and sad how few truly well written and interesting female characters there are, in all of media.
just let artists do what they know, if you make them write something they're not familiar with its going to end up like shit
>>78420616
It doesn't?
What are you even talking about, what's even the context, why am I supposed to be upset?
>>78421403
If you never practice, you'll never get better
>>78421348
Frankly, most logical people would understand that in a fictional or historic environment with little to no women, there will be little to no women.
Yeah, you'll get the odd stark raving lunatic who thinks history can and should be rewritten and that all fiction exists to be a soapbox. They're not everywhere, they're just much louder than other people.
If you're a creator, create what you want. Just know that there are dumb fucks and you will need to defend yourself from them, no matter what you do.
>>78421121
>That is nonsense.
>That is like telling people who want less poison in their food to grow their own, or to tell people demanding safety measures for cars to build it by themselves.
>It's just not feasible to do so.
Telling women to make their own characters is also like telling Jews to defend themselves from the Nazis. Or Or telling raped women to attack their rapists. Or telling slaves to rebel against their slavers.
See, people? This is how evil you are by not including female characters. Now put more girls there or I'll dial up the hyperbole.
>>78421408
if you're not interested you won't learn
>>78421340
Oh, that was what you meant. I was exclusively thinking about how people can't build and install them by themselves for the most part.
>>78421346
I did not even mention those.
Obviously the intended demographic would be part of the internal considerations when deliberating any petitions and demands.
>>78421363
That is irrelevant, the argument is not about cash. Blockbusters seldom pass the Bechdel test.
>>78421399
It's not odd at all to have a story about school kids be all about boys. Of course you will have lots of female characters, but you can make all of the major ones male easily.
>it's really both weird and sad how few truly well written and interesting female characters there are, in all of media.
The thing is a lot of writers have subconscious different standards for female characters. They will often not have female characters be forced to take personal responsibility for mistakes or have (intended) personality flaws, and often their arcs are about things being done to them rather than them doing shit.
Feminism just takes all of those biases and turns them up to 11 to be honest. It's not a new view on gender at all, it's just taking the traditional views to an extreme.
>>78421426
What, have multiple women not talking about men?
If they're talking about girly things, feminitzis will bitch
If they're talking about masculine things, they'll bitch they're just men with vaginas
>>78421415
But anon, artist have a responsibility and an obligation to improve society!
>>78421348
I guess you've heard what happened with the Witcher 3
>Here's a fantasy world based on medieval Poland
>Where's all the black people?
>Well, there weren't many black people in medieval Poland...
>Actually there were many PoCs in Europe but white power doesn't want you to know. Moors invented personal hygiene even!
>I consulted historians and they disagree
>Ugh, but it's a fantasy world, you're only using realism to hide your racism!
And so on
I do wonder if they'll ever start bitching about the lack of women in historical war movies
>>78421458
Yes, all art is political, comrade, and the media shapes society, certainly not the other way around!
>>78421121
>>78421266
You're forgetting that with modern epublishing the entry barrier for written works is minuscule.
>>78421426
Which says absolutely nothing.
Because depending on the structure of the movie, the arbitrary condition may or may not be met even with many well-written female characters. And any lesbo porn passes easily.
>>78421432
The problem with feminists is that they often demand female characters to be safe and sacrosanct, leading to exactly the stereotypes you described.
...Do you think the EP 7 director's cut will include how they throw Phasma into the trash compactor? I want to see that.
>>78421467
Poor CD Projekt had a rough time with Witcher 3. Happy it all died down and they had a good release.
>I do wonder if they'll ever start bitching about the lack of women in historical war movies
A few have.
I'm not sure whether to say they're more extreme than others, or more delusional, or more something else.
But yeah there are a few of them who think that history should be rewritten when necessary if it will furthertheir idea ofsocial justice
>>78421467
Why are you even playing medieval RPGs which feminists agree only serve to legitimize white supremacy?
>>78421472
For webcomics nobody reads.
Of which there are thousands.
But if you want any influence on culturally relevant animation features, you will have to bother Disney or something.
These days you will kinda have to go that no matter the medium.
Fucking monster of a company.
>>78421485
They've already rewritten a lot of history in the minds of a good portion of the public with their ''women were chattel before feminism'' nonsense.
Many people fully believe that women were horribly oppressed throughout most of human history. I used to believe it too.
>>78421508
Considering the world is desperate beyond measure for well written feminist characters, I'm sure that your webcomic would fill that niche and become famous overnight. So get started, anon.
>>78421528
But I want well-written characters.
Why the fuck would I include Feminist nonsense?
Ellen Ripley is my favorite character of all time, in any medium. I love good female characters, and often find them more interesting than similar male characters simply because I am a guy and enjoy different points of view. Well written female characters are amazing. Any well written character is amazing, actually.
I think the problem with comics and cartoons in their writing, generally, is they have a lot of male creatives. Obviously not all are male, there are numerous prominent female creators in both fields. But it's not just the gender, it's the level of talent. There are just not a lot of super talented writers in comics willing to write good characters. The good writers flock to literature, film, and television because they're much more widely respected mediums in the mainstream with bigger opportunities for success.
So who's left for comics or cartoons? The people who enjoy them, mostly. And how many of you anons are actually good writers? Not many. Sure, you do exist, but there aren't many. Making it in either of these fields is hard enough but mostly you're allowed more chances if you write popular stuff. Well written things aren't popular, lowest common denominator is.
Comics and cartoons are sadly just not well respected. Neither are video games. That's why there aren't very many great writers capable of well written characters in either of these fields. It's sad, but I think that's the underlying cause here. It's not necessarily sexism though that surely also plays some part in it too, history is wildly dominated by every -ism you can imagine and will forever because people are awful. But it's the lack of genuinely well gifted writers. There are a lot out there but they don't get exposure in the mainstream because the masses don't give a shit, they just want what's comfortable to read for a few minutes. And there's no end to the list of people who only write for that which includes weak female characters.
>>78421542
You sound as if you're scared of the feminist label, anon. Are you some sort or Reddit Gamergate MRA? For fuck's sake, it's 2015.
>>78421329
I see evil
its name is /co/umblr
>>78421565
Rebecca Sugar and Gwen Wilson for the mainstream would be who I respect.
Kaoru Mori and Ashley Cope for manga and webcomics.
>>78421577
Less the label. More the insane harpies.
>>78421577
We don't want male allies, you shitlord. #killallmen
>>78421467
>I do wonder if they'll ever start bitching about the lack of women in historical war movies
They are doing a remake of Dad's Army next year and adding in a bunch of female characters.
>>78421650
Yes, but Dad's Army was far from accurate and they were part of then Home Guard. It's not like they were in the bloody trenches.
>>78421399
>Nurse
That's a sexist stereotype! Women don't just exist to be comforting and support the ebul mensfolk!
>Cook
Ugh! I can't even right now!
>Ambulance driver
Yet more women being shoe horned into social constructs. Come on, it's 2015!
>Home front
Oh. So now women can't be on the front lines, but have to be relegated to awaiting sweethearts and weeping widows? That's really fucking toxic, you fucking sexist racist ableist pissbaby shitbag, check your masculinism privilege then kill yourself rah rah wymyn pywyr hear me roar.
>>78420616
It...doesn't?
My favorite cartoon is [REDACTED - verboten on this board], and the main cast is six women, and that's just scratching the surface.
I find the show to be pretty well-written, and most of the characters to be nicely fleshed-out and interesting, feeling like real people, if somewhat exaggerated as all fictional characters tend to be.
I don't object to decent girl characters. If anything, I want more.
I just don't want Nu-Thor type garbage.
Come to think of it, wouldn't that sort of shit, if it went the other way, be considered Cultural Appropriation or something?
>>78421485
It's such a fallacy, the notion of contemporary fiction means it has to be authentic, but not the things I don't like. And the whole dictating what an artist can and can't create. I hate it.
>>78421761
There's a kind of desperation to create well written, well liked women in fiction that's come about recently, mostly in response to complaining and in the notion that money could be made off these characters. Unfortunately, it's really hard to write a good character, let alone a universally loved character, so committies tend to look at the list of things people want, rather than an individual creating a real character, based on their own genuine experiences. The result is a level of censorship and characters like Ray, Phasma and fem-thor, who aren't really characters in their own rights, but packaged commodities the people are supposed to love because why wouldn't they?
>>78420675
They want female characters, they their nerdy selves will relate to. None of them are going to relate to a sexy lawyer who turns into a sexy green amazonian. They want more SpiderGwen because her outfit looks cute and she's nerdy. Why do you think we're getting shit like GwenPool? Girls like cutesy bullshit.
>>78420882
To be fair, they were talking about a female MC Link, not a DLC character for a non-canon game. Though there's no need for them to get upset over it. They're not gonna suddenly redo the game they're working on and make Link female. That would be stupid.
>>78421121
There's a fundamental difference between being hurt by someone else and not getting what you want from someone else.
>>78421974
Why is it so important for them to steal/change male/white main characters?
Why is Linkle, a new character that nonetheless is functionally Fem!Link, not good enough?
They don't want women characters. They want women to win and men to lose.
Men can be flawed as hell: alcoholics, druggies, cowards, mentally ill, and all sorts of shit and nobody gives a shit. But if a woman is anything other than a Mary Sue power fantasy, then its "sexist bullshit".
>>78420909
Even on /co/ I can't escape this faggot and his frogpost.
>>78420616
The truth is that no matter how a female character is written,people will complain.Writers should write female characters that appeal to their personality because everyone else will find some reason to complain about the female character.
>>78421988
>Why is Linkle, a new character that nonetheless is functionally Fem!Link, not good enough?
Because she's not the main character of her own game. Having her as a DLC of a non-canon game isn't the same and I understand that. But if they wanted an honest to true female Link they better be prepared for a silent, blank slate of a character with little to no personality outside of "they do what they think is right" because all Links are like that. If they complained then, then they never cared about the Zelda games because that's how it's always been.
>>78421992
I don't know how many bored alcoholic housewife characters I have seen pass.
>>78420882
I can understand the difference here though.
They wanted a character that is equivalent to Link, not an exact copy of Link.
Kinda like how people go like "we need more female superheroes" and then make batgirl or spidergirl.
How about making a character that is something on their own.
No one gives a shit about Wonderboy, the guy version of Wonder-woman.
>>78422111
In such cases the female character is usually portrayed as a victim though
>>78420616
Fucking let people make what they want to make. You want a female character? Go fucking make one. Go support a person that makes one. Don't bitch at a Chinese place because they don't make Japanese food. Make the world you want to live in, don't just sit behind your desk whining all day for people to do shit for you. Don't be an entitled little brat.
I don't want to be pandered to. I don't want to have this guuuurl power shit. Fuck everyone that perpetuates it instead of just having characters and oh some of them are female, and they're just people instead of being a strong gurl who don't need no man.
Stop trying to dictate creativity. Stop trying to force people to pander. Let people make what they want to make, or at least admit that by asking people to do this you're really saying "Do this for me because I'm a lazy shit".
I know this is bait but I had to reply.
>>78422155
>How about making a character that is something on their own.
You're right. The number of female superheroes that aren't copies of male characters is virtually non-existant, and if they made a new one, it's guaranteed that she'll sell extremely well.
>>78422155
Ironically, they're complaining that it isn't an exact copy of Link sans penis
>>78422155
just because they're an extension of an already established hero doesn't mean they can't be their own person or character.
>>78422155
Well, here's an hypothetical situation.
Imagine if profit whores, progressive-pandering companies like Marvel did create new, original superheroines. But they didn't sell well because nobody gives a fuck about them, because they don't sell outrage. And that's why you haven't heard of them.
Just kidding, this isn't true. The simple truth about the lack of original superheroines is that the comics industry hates women.
>>78421405
Tell that to this entire thread lel.
>>78422155
But that's not what's happening. There's no new female characters being made. They're simply replacing male heroes like Captain Marvel and Thor.
>>78422257
They don't hate women. They know it's a small market to to cater to.
>>78420616
Because it's a dumb attempt at shaming.
It's not an especially bad problem just because half of the human population is female. If it were a 60/40 split in favor of men, it'd still be a hack thing to do. If it were the same split in favor of women, it'd still be a hack thing to do. And 9 times out of 10, this sort of half-assed criticism is made about a character that IS decent, but who doesn't fit into the critic's favorite abstract political theory.
>Problematic thread
>over 100 replies
>>78421298
>Implying
Bitch's only character fault that isn't a sue-tier non-fault is being fucking stupid. Literally worst character, Venus should have stayed leader.
>>78420616
Wait, so the logic here is that because half the people on the world are girls, we should make more good female characters, yes?
So since gay people are a proportionately small demographic, does that mean we shouldn't have many good gay characters?
Shouldn't the takeaway be "write better characters of all kinds" and not "write better women because there are a lot of us"?
>>78422257
>The simple truth about the lack of original superheroines is that the comics industry hates women.
it's because original super heros are a gambit no matter the gender.
Like with movies, it's much safer to take an already established name and run with that than it is to make a completely new super hero.
>>78422155
>They wanted a character that is equivalent to Link, not an exact copy of Link
There are precious few ways to interpret the phrase "female version of Link" that doesn't imply that the result would be largely the same with the main difference being a vagina.
>>78422372
She is much better in the manga, in which she's a suicidal fuckup.
>>78421389
>companies are full of people who are often happy enough to talk to reasonable people with reasonable petitions.
Nah, that doesn't sound right.
In theory I agree with that statement, OP.
However people are too afraid to write good characters who aren't white heterosexual men in this day and age.
My biggest problem is that creators are afraid of backlash. No one is willing to write a character that is anything other than a bland role model out of fear of being accused of racist, sexist, homophobic, etc so they don't try.
We need to create a culture where it becomes acceptable for content creators to throw anything and everything at the wall without unending backlash.
On another note I hate the "well why don't you create it?" mentality. That seems to only exist when talking about minority characters. You never see it used against any other complaints.
>>78421061
Worked for Frank Miller
>>78420882
Left = male link. Without a penis.
>>78421298
Are you agreeing with a pic of Serena/Usagi saluting or citing her as a counterargument?
>>78424515
Why don't you do it yourself you lazy fucking retard
>oh but mean white men don't want to and they only respond with that when I bitch!
Fuck you, America only exists because John Smith told fuckers they had to work if they wanted to benefit from the farms around Jamestown. Otherwise those dumb fucks would have eventually starved to death from their own laziness.
You want good female characters?
Beverly Crusher in TNG. Susan Ivanova in Babylon 5. Samantha Carter in Stargate SG-1.
Why is it that good sci-fi writers are capable of writing good women characters?
>>78420616
Every attempt they make at it leads to a smaller percentage of good female characters. Setting out to make a good female character solely because WE NEED MORE WOMEN seems to always lead to failure.
Here's what should be done in most pieces of fiction.
>write the story and several likable characters with many flaws and traits and perks
>THEN make them girls or people of color
If the second step comes first, then people will make their color or gender the focal point of their traits and perks, instead of it just being a part of them. Take for instance:
>story writes about someone down on their luck, but they do some hard work, learn some lessons, and make friends with another person down on their luck
>then you decide "hey, one should be black man, another should be a mexican woman"
This is what happens in reality.
>decide that you'll have a black and mexican woman in your story
>"oh noes, I can't have them face adversity, that would make me look racist! I better have them start off well already". "Crap, I Can't give them character flaws, that would be stereotyping!"
And so on.
>>78421121
>That is like telling people who want less poison in their food to grow their own,
Tons of people have their own organic microgardens.
Female characters are rapidly becoming more trouble than they're worth. In the west, at least.
>>78421508
That's where Disney started. Stan and Jack started with a dying publishing company that couldn't keep the lights on.
What, do you want relevancy handed to you on a silver platter? Work. Work like a fucking rock star. Take drugs that damage your body and soul so you can work more. Ruin your personal life, so there's more time for work. And you'll still probably fail because that's the business.
There's a reason hollywood's obsessed with itself, because its a bizarre combination of endless soul destroying work schedules and sheer dumb luck that gets them there.
>>78421565
"Just write better guys omhigod" really.
>>78422284
They tried making new female characters for nearly a DECADE before this. Very few of them stuck, none of them kept solo books going.
>>78424803
Because when you make any other criticism in media, it's just accepted. It seems to be only when it comes to minority characters do people throw their arms out to create their own.
Why don't I create my own?
Because that's not what I'm doing with my life, you wrongly smug faggot. Being able to criticize and being able to create are two separate skills.
Furthermore even when people DO go through the system and create their own characters, /co/ will bitch and moan about "SJWS ARE RUINING MUH COMICS".
There's absolutely no winning.
Because for all the talk about diversity and how everyone wants well written female characters what we end up with is Babsgirl; a whiny smartphone addicted know it all that just sort of lucks into winning all the time because otherwise it'd be offensive.
The finer details might change but female characters these days are pretty much within that wheelhouse and no others and the ones that manage to be unique or good get ignored because then what would assholes complain about?
All the people bitching about the lack of a Black Widow movie should've gone to see Dredd.
And also can we stop acting like white women are a fucking minority please?
>>78425652
>a whiny smartphone addicted know it all that just sort of lucks into winning all the time because otherwise it'd be offensive.Just like women irl
>>78424889
>If the second step comes first, then people will make their color or gender the focal point of their traits and perks
You can do step one or two first. Race and color can matter. A black man in the 1950's will be a different person with different attributes and experiences than a white guy in 1950's.
in general though, people need to get the fuck over what color the heros skin is.
Captain marvel or whoever is black now. Who cares why they did it?
However if a creator does do that and they start loud mouthing about how progressive they are and smug, that you can right call out because that's stupid as fuck.
>>78426325
>A black man in the 1950's will be a different person with different attributes and experiences than a white guy in 1950's.
In general I advocate a scientific approach to creating characters, such as this.But then again, I hate fun.
