Tony is clearly in the wrong here. If he wants to walk a different path in life, quit the Avengers, take all of his resources and fold himself into the government and operate as a part of their structure, that's fine and totally his right to do so. Where he crosses the line is demanding that Steve also follow this path. He has no right to impose his will on any of the other Avengers.
Tony is really the only one who has proven significantly irresponsible to the point of needing supervision under the government to begin with. Steve has more than proven himself worthy of autonomy in his operations
But Tony is completely in the right this time.
The Avengers shouldn't be allowed to ignore international law and wage their own private wars, hopping into other countries and attacking who they deem "bad guys". It's only the fact that we, as a movie audience, have seen things from their perspective that we know THIS particular MSF is led by generally good people. Even then, they need to be held accountable for what they do.
Superpowers don't give you extra rights.
>>78194718
>He has no right to impose his will on any of the other Avengers.
The Avengers have no right to do any of the shit they do. Everything about their operations are extremely illegal.
>>78195410
Anon, all registration would do is give the authority over the most powerful people on earth to the American government so they could then wage private wars in other countries like they already do.
It's preferable that the Avengers is its own society of super human types that operates on its own authority. At least with them it's just a colorful bunch of eccentric characters by themselves, rather than the CIA setting up operations to commit political assassinations and fund proxy rebel uprisings in the name of peace keeping
>>78195428
They've earned the privilege of having more rights than everyone else.
>>78195614
That sets a terrible precedent that says anyone with enough power can go around attacking whoever they deem bad with no repercussions.
We don't let PMCs wage their own wars for this very reason.
>>78195674
>That sets a terrible precedent that says anyone with enough power can go around attacking whoever they deem bad with no repercussions.
You mean like regular countries already do?
>>78195643
Earned it how? Most superhumans got their powers in accidents, or were born with them. And even for those who obtained their power through their own merits, obtaining power doesn't mean you deserve to wield it however you want.
> Vision leaves due to his Mind Gem problems (obviously can't control it if, as is likely, it unlocked SW's latent powers and thus caused the deaths early in the movie)
> Scarlet Witch leaves due to needing to control and understand new mystic powers which are beyond science before returning
> Hawkeye goes back into retirement
> Rhodey will take a while to recover
So, the argument becomes moot as there are barely any Avengers left at the end of this conflict.
Iron Man and Black Widow are pretty much on their own with Bucky and Falcon maybe being Secret Avengers.
>>78195699
and you think this is fine? The UN, although entirely ineffective, exists for a reason.
>>78195699
Regular countries have to deal with international law, which the Avengers ignore.
And regular countries can't have their armies go into other nations and shoot people up unless they want that country all over their ass.
>>78195674
There will most certainly be many people who try. All that do will be met by the Avengers, who exist to stand against such forces in the world.
>>78195745
>>78195749
I mean, why not have it handled exactly the way it's handled already?
I mean, in DC the Justice League is basically it's own nation.
>>78194718
If it was like the comics then I'd agree with you ,but how is Tony not wanting his parent's murderer to go unpublished just because of the un regulated power of his fellow superheroes bad?The movie version is not in the wrong.(Unless he does that weird interdimensional prison or whatever)
>>78195717
By saving the world countless times and facing threats most people can't. It's not just their powers that make these figures great, it's their inner quality as a person.
>>78195790
The Avengers have saved the world twice, but one of those times they were directly responsible for the disaster in the first place.
Also, that's like claiming that the US should be able to do whatever it wants because it helped the allies win WWII.
>>78195785
That's an issue separate from registration. He's even wrong about Bucky though
>>78195758
And what if one such group overpowers the Avengers? Should we not interfere with them?
>>78195845
Tony is the only one directly responsible for Ultron. He is the only one who should be under the authority of the government. Steve and his Avengers should he left alone.
>>78195874
I doubt we would be able to succeed against such a force.
>>78195790
That description also applies to SHIELD pre-TWS. Why should we stand in their way when they want to build helicarriers that can kill anyone on the planet instantly? They've proven their hearts are in the right place!
>>78195878
Leaving them lone UNTIL they do something wrong is how Ultron happened in the first place.
>>78195410
>>78195428
>>78195674
Did everyone forget that in the MCU the Avengers were created by and operated as a SHIELD strikeforce until SHIELD was dismantled in TWS? And afterwards continued doing its same mission using private funding, ostensibly with the approval and support of the UN going by dialogue in AoU? And that as of the end of AoU, SHIELD is back and working with the Avengers again? Not to mention that three of the Avengers members were SHIELD agents, one was a SHIELD contractor, and one worked for the contractor.
>>78195785
Tony commits extensive crimes using the Iron Man suit while intervening in foreign conflicts, Black Widow is an ex-Russian assassin who spent a period of time as a hired killer, Hawkeye led an attack on the SHIELD helicarrier that resulted in the deaths of several SHIELD operatives, Scarlet Witch was a terrorist. Tony is being hypocritical in the extreme.
>>78195932
Captain America doesn't take drastic preemptive measures like that. He doesn't try to end wars that haven't begun. He's proven that he doesn't have the desire to reach that far. He knows there will always be evil in the world, and he'll be there to face it when it arises.
>>78195932
Reminder that Tony helped build those helicarriers.
>>78195999
I would have more faith in Steve Rogers being the watchful authority over this than any government official
>>78196062
And yet look at him now, letting a known war criminal who could relapse into murder mode and could easily still be a sleeper agent join the team and operate with total freedom.
>>78195783
And the avengers are not
>>78196036
He can still make dangerously bad judgement calls, especially when muh Bucky is involved.
>>78196062
That's only because you've watched him as an audience member. From any actual person's perspective there is no reason to know this.
>>78195785
Wanda might have something to say about Tony wanting justice for his dead parents, yet expecting her to forget her own.
The Bucky issue is morally murky, though. How much control did he have over his actions? Can he be proven to have been under influence?
You can't have people running around the globe doing as they please, that's a recipe for disaster. But being lectured on that by a US General is like Hitler telling you off for making a joke about black guys.
>>78196102
It's his best friend. The fact that he's willing to lay his life on the line out of loyalty to his brother makes me trust him more
>>78196127
Nobody is beyond error. This doesn't make me trust Captain America any less
>>78196251
>It's his best friend.
So he's entirely biased and letting his personal feelings cloud his judgement. He ought to recuse himself.
>>78196154
He died saving America from annihilation in WWII.
>>78196251
Putting personal feelings before reason is not something you want the guy in charge of the world's most powerful army (one which ignores all international law) to have.
Like, if the President handed over nuclear launch codes to his best friend, that would not be something to applaud.
>>78194718
If you think the Avengers should just be given free rein then you're an idiot. That goes double for the MCU Avengers. You need to look at this from a different perspective. We have the benefit of knowing all the intimate details but the MCU government and public do not. Imagine if you were caught in the crossfire in their fight with the aliens. Imagine that your parents were killed in a green monster's rampage while they were on vacation. Imagine that you were just walking down the street and a droid army dropped out of the sky and physically barred your way and told you to fuck off. Imagine that a certain group of heroes created a murderbot that came within a hair's breadth of destroying the world. Imagine that you were a government official that had to handle all the fear and damage caused by these superpowered individuals flipping off the law and doing whatever the hell they wanted. You'd be all for registration then.
>>78196279
He values loyalty to his loved ones over bureaucracy. Steve is a man fighting for his brother. The judgement of the government in this matter will be no less corrupt than in all of its other doings
>>78196192
Especially considering said general conducted two military operations on US soil for the express purpose of violating a man's civil and human rights. And who used his connections and clearances to access a failed military experiment whose use resulted in the creation of a sociopathic rampage monster that killed several people and tore up a chunk of NYC.
>>78196299
And Tony Stark saved New York from a nuke. Doesn't mean letting him do whatever he thinks was best for the world was a good idea.
>>78196347
In putting his personal feelings over the greater good, Steve himself is corrupt.
>>78196349
>violating a man's civil and human rights.
Is arresting a criminal a violation of civil rights?
>>78196338
He isn't making an irrational decision. Killing Bucky is not the light of reason. He knows that he can't trust the government officials in the way that they're asking him too. We haven't had a president in decades that hasn't committed acts of corruption that are outright malicious, compared to Steve fighting for the life of his best friend
>>78196360
Tony is a sociopath who also built Ultron. Steve has never abused his power is such a way
>>78196412
It's not between killing and not killing Bucky. It's between detaining an extremely dangerous individual vs. handing him a badge and putting him on the police force.
>>78196385
There is no greater good. There has never been a time that the concept of the greater good hasn't been used to justify evil
>>78196441
Tony hadn't abused power in such a way before that point. He was the guy who was willing to sacrifice himself to save the city.
You're talking with the benefit of hindsight. Steve being a good person so far doesn't mean he'll never make any mistake ever.
>>78196453
No, it's between killing him and not killing him. Nobody is going to let Bucky live. They aren't trying to arrest him. The world wants him dead
>>78196412
You know what they say about good intentions.
It creates killer AIs.
Tony sucks ass. He always gets the most focus but always seems like the least characterized and wishy washy with hits IM A GENIUS LET ME DO THINGS and IM A GENIUS YOU CANT DO THOSE THINGS!
Atleast in the movies. Really boring to watch.
>>78196483
Tony abused his power literally constantly before Ultron. He proved time and time again to be an unstable, irresponsible narcissist
>>78196488
Why should Bucky be allowed to live?
>>78196463
What about Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
Or putting down a rabid dog? Or giving Penders the rights to his OCs?
>>78196409
Yes, the military arresting a civilian for the express purpose of detaining him indefinitely to run human experimentation on him is a pretty blatant rights violation. It's unconstitutional as well. It's also interesting to note that the creation, and subsequent destruction caused by the creation, of the Hulk was an unforeseen accident and that any legal liability would also fall on Ross, as he was aware of and approved the project.
>>78196522
Because he was mentally abused for decades and robbed of his soul. He deserves a chance at redemption. Steve has to fight for this chance
>>78196512
This post reeks of bias.
>>78196512
Like when?
>>78196541
Each is more of a lesser evil than greater good
>>78196614
That's the same fucking thing.
>>78196553
Ditch the emotional plea and logically explain to me why a dangerous and unstable criminal should be allowed to live, even though it'll spark a conflict that could potentially get innocent people killed.
>>78196566
His narcissism, arrogance and irresponsiblity are literally the definitive qualities of RDJ's portrayal. It's why people liked it in the first place.
>>78196568
All of Iron Man 2, and the first Avengers. Both movies prove that he has a massive God complex and loves building giant monuments to himself. In both Avengers movies, the main crisis is caused by someone turning something Tony built against the world
>>78196767
>In both Avengers movies, the main crisis is caused by someone turning something Tony built against the world
Tony built the Tessaract?
>>78196647
This isn't a matter of logic, it's a matter of higher ideals and honor. Steve can't betray his loyalty to his brother. They're with each other til the end if the line. Loyalty like that is worth fighting for. Bucky doesn't deserve to die for what happened to him.
>>78196798
Tony built his giant arc reactor power plant tower in the middle of the city which was used on the lamest iteration of the Cosmic Cube ever written to open a wormhole
>>78196832
All it literally served as was a tall building. Loki would have just used the next tallest building if it weren't there.
>>78196767
>All of Iron Man 2
How did he abuse his power here? By shooting fruit and trying to keep dangerous technology away from the military?
Superior tech
>>78196629
Seriously though, sometimes it's worth taking the harder and more arduous path, even at great cost so you don't have to incinerate thousands of children in nuclear fire
>>78196808
If Steve is putting his best friend before the safety of the world then he shouldn't be in charge of making decisions with people's safety at stake.
It's a form of selfishness.
>>78196845
He specifically needed power of the energy source that Tony's tower was generating
>>78196867
Depends on how many more innocents die because you took the harder path.
>>78196853
By building a massive foundation with his expo that served as a platform inviting people to build armies of robots
>>78196872
He's actually fighting to keep the world safer, as he knows the government will abuse the authority they are given as they have proven time and time again
>>78196808
So that loyalty is worth splitting up the world's first line of defense as well as causing untold collateral damage and possible bloodshed? This is why people like you should never be in power.
>>78196934
But the Avengers will never abuse theirs?
At least the Government (nominally) answer to the people. The Avengers answer to no one. If they make a bad judgement call, the rest of the world has no choice but to shut up and accept it.
>>78196901
Once you start weighing people's lives in that way, you've gone too far. This kind of thinking requires an almost sociopathic detachment from the act.
>>78196887
>>78196912
Tony isn't directly responsible for either of these. It's like blaming a car owner because someone stole their car and proceeded to hit a kid with it.
>>78196935
Without loyalty, the alliance of these heroes is worthless. It's people like you that allow corrupt manipulators to gain power in society.
All this system does is give General Ross the superhuman task force he's wanted since Incredible Hulk
>>78196934
You think that the government could coerce the Avengers to do something unjust?
>>78196958
Captain America has worked with the established authorities without any issue in every conflict he's been in so far without having to be under their thumb. He's proven himself capable of autonomy. The masses on the other hand have proven irrational, fickle and prone to ignorance. Why should the Avengers answer to the screeching masses?
>>78196984
He is directly responsible, as he knows the things he builds are easily used for massively destructive purposes, yet he does it anyway. Tony has the mind of a villain himself
>>78197029
They would at the very least try to
>>78196962
If you make a choice that results in people dying, then you're responsible for those deaths, regardless of your motives.
>>78196995
You have a childish mindset. Keep trying to justify death and destruction over law and order.
>>78197036
See:
>>78196154
If it's okay when Cap does it, then where do you draw the line on who can? At what point are they no longer sufficiently infallible?
If the trailer is any indication, Cap very much is capable of making poor decisions, especially when strong personal relationships are involved.
>>78197082
Ross probably strokes himself off thinking of what he could do with the likes of Hulk, Scarlet Witch, and Vision as his bitches.
In the case of Black Widowits for different reasons
>>78197087
People die in the conflicts the Avengers fight. They aren't perfect, they're going to make mistakes. They will fail to save people and have to make hard choices. This is the nature of their choice to step up to the responsibility to facing these threats. They don't deserve to have guilt imposed on them by the bitter, amoral masses who cast vitriol at anyone in a position of power. It's their burden to bear, and they accept that
>>78197057
He literally built both of those things for altruistic purposes. You are absurdly biased.
>>78197152
But if they make a choice that results in more people dying than if they had chosen otherwise, then it IS their fault. Good intentions or not.
Also you are starting to sound awfully Randian.
>>78197119
Keep thinking that your institutions of law and order aren't deeply corrupt with no real foundation and aren't easily bought. These institutions don't come with any less death or destruction. Just more hypocrisy and lies
>>78197122
When they've proven themselves as righteous as Captain America has proven himself.
>>78196995
Loyalty is one way of saying nepotism.
>>78197161
One of the themes of Iron Man 3 is how innovative creations are built with the vision of altruism, they still in the end are made malevolent. This is again reflected in Ultron
>>78197036
>Captain America has worked with the established authorities without any issue in every conflict he's been in so far without having to be under their thumb
>literally a soldier in the army
>literally directly under Fury's command
The only time he was not under a thumb was in AoU, and we saw how that turned out. I'd say the Avengers are in dire need of a thumb.
>>78197190
Oh god you are a child.
>>78197178
There is no real way of knowing what could have happened in a situation that didn't actually occur.
This thread is Gold
>>78197266
But anon, you're the one with the naive faith in a system that has proven to be corrupt throughout our entire civilization. Law is not founded on morality, it's founded on a total lack of morality in the human condition.
>>78197240
It turned out pretty great, as Steve cleaned up the mess fairly efficiently and opposed Ultron from the beginning. It's only Tony that makes these devestating mistakes
>>78197274
Not quite true, There are many scenarios where deaths could be clearly avoided.
>>78197302
Please stop.
>>78197332
I'd trust Captain America to make this judgment above any government official or bureaucracy
>>78194718
Tony was clearly wrong in the comic so I guess it's all pottery.
>>78197340
If you don't have anything to say, you don't have to keep posting
>>78197330
>It turned out pretty great
>massive death toll
>world was nearly destroyed
>entire city literally ripped out of the ground
>>78197387
Then why are you posting?
>>78197371
Yeah, I'm sure arming the guy who could easily be a sleeper agent or on the brink of relapse and letting him run around in combat scenarios full of innocent people isn't a bad idea at all.
>>78197391
Yeah, and the Avengers were the only ones even close to being capable of stopping it. They saved the world again.
Ultron also only killed Strucker. Nobody else got killed except Ulysses Klaus men
>>78197432
There is now literally an entire nation of homeless people.
>>78197419
It will be worth the risk once he is redeemed in the end and an innocent man gets back the life that was stolen from him
>>78197451
There is also still a planet full of human life rather than a devestated wasteland where only Ultron exists
>>78197432
The Avengers caused it, and there were plenty of civilian deaths.
>>78197408
I have a lot to say
>>78197464
It should be worth the risk before it fucking happens you idiot.
>>78197488
Think about this: Steve isn't the only Avenger. If Tony can create Ultron while Steven is leading the team, how do we know similar disasters won't happen in the future with Wanda or Vision? And that's not even getting into Bucky.
>>78197492
Only Tony caused it. Steve opposed it from the beginning.
>>78197504
Emotional pleas aren't worth the air they're spoken with.
>>78197464
Or maybe a shit ton of people die because Steve wasn't willing to admit that his best friend might be dangerous.
>>78197523
It is. That's why Steve is taking that risk for his friend
>>78194718
>accords pass
>tony agrees, joins up
>steve doesn't, they clearly let him stop being captain america (taking away the shield scene)
>kill order placed on bucky
>cap goes to find/save bucky
Why are you talking about Tony forcing Cap to superhero for the military?
Why do you think Tony is forcing his will on anyone? He'd have to be on orders since he's following the accords.
>>78197532
>Only Tony caused it
And he's an Avenger. Bruce also helped.
>>78197532
But he didn't stop it. And Bucky, Vision, or Wanda could just as easily cause a similar disaster because "Trust us, Steve's got it handled".
>>78197549
Steve is not omniscient. The Russos have said themselves he isn't objectively right in this movie.
>>78197524
You don't. The future is uncertain for all of us. Putting the Avengers under the supervision of General Ross doesn't make it any less uncertain or these potential threats less likely to happen
>>78197549
>the "soul" of one man is worth confirmed destruction and possible civilian casualties
>>78197451
I don't think the Sokovians are terribly happy with Wanda running off and being an Avenger. Her government is probably on her ass 24/7.
They probably feel she should be helping her countrymen not saving other nationalities.
>>78197585
Yes it fucking does. Ultron would never have gotten off the ground if the Avengers were operating with supervision and tighter control.
That's like saying we shouldn't have police, and should just hope that no one is able to murder or steal from us.
>>78197565
Only Iron Man and Hulk should be removed from the Avengers then. General Ross has dreamed of having Iron Man and Hulk under his authority for years now anyway. Might as well finally give it to him
>>78197545
Have I told you about Bucky? He was brainwashed by Hydra and murdered a loads of people; you name them, he put more caps in asses than a keyboard stuck on caps lock. Bucky didn't mean to he just killed people with his fabulous arm He was a good friend.
>>78197635
Please, the government would have absolutely supported Ultron. They would adore a weapon like that
>>78197586
Higher ideals are worth fighting for, yes
>>78197569
Founding the Avengers on such a level of distrust will only end in ruin
>>78197744
You heard it here first. "Who cares about death and destruction so long as Captain America gets his boyfriend back?"
-Anonymous, December 15, 2015 3:06 AM
>>78197793
Caution isn't distrust. Dd you think Batman was wrong in JL: Doom?
>>78197828
You're the one advocating that Bucky be executed, and the Avengers submit to the authority of General Ross and the American military for all further operations
>>78197865
>the Avengers submit to the authority of General Ross and the American military for all further operations
Is that what's in the Sokovia accord?
>>78197850
Yeah, Batman was kind of in the wrong for plotting to kill all of his friends secretly. You're forgetting that Batman is an actual psychopath.
>>78197915
Yes, why do you think Thunderbolt Ross is leading it?
>>78197793
Putting absolute trust in anybody, especially just because they have more power than you, is a recipe for disaster.
>>78197931
This tells me all I need to know. GG you win there is no reason for you to keep posting.
>>78198004
The fact that trust is so rare in this world and so fragile is all the more reason Steve should fight for Bucky.
>>78198016
Batman is literally an insane person who was secretly filling up a note book in his basement with plots of how he could kill all of his friends
>>78198079
Anon you win please stop, your unbiased and logical points are too much.
>>78198117
The human experience does not operate under logical systems. In fact, logic runs counter to the human experience
>>78198158
I concede defeat, can't you read?
>>78198202
I figured you were being facetious
Steve is trying to protect an assassin.
>b-but muh friendship
nigga he kills people
>>78198254
He was MK Ultra'd though
>>78198239
Oh I am. You're retarded.
>>78198254
He didn't consent to killing those people, it was rape-murder
>>78198306
Oh god Bucky raped them too? That makes Steve a rape apologist!
>>78198291
How am I retarded if I figured correctly?
>>78198325
You didn't figure correctly.
>>78195428
The Avengers work as an extension to handle problems the basic law enforcement entities can't. However, too much government control would do nothing but make the Avengers propaganda weapons as opposed to simply a deterrent for the more powerful threats.
>>78195999
The best solution would be to monitor the Avengers' missions, and simply ask for an update every mission just to clarify what was fought and how. No government control, but instead letting the nations know what was prevented and possibly avoid Tony's dumb shit like Ultron.
>>78198254
In this instance Bucky's innocent. He was forced into the program and had his mind warped by HYDRA. It's not really fair to say that Bucky is Winter Soldier, even.
Cap just needs to negotiate a deal where Bucky undergoes psychiatric evaluation and healing if they can. The man was brainwashed, he deserves a chance at redemption.
>>78196025
>Tony commits extensive crimes using the Iron Man suit while intervening in foreign conflicts
No he did not commit any crimes at all, he stopped terrorist who were rounding up and prepared to murder innocent non combatant citizens.
> Black Widow is an ex-Russian assassin who spent a period of time as a hired killer.
Irrelevant, she defected and is not a agent for the good guys, there is thing call redemption fucker.
> Hawkeye led an attack on the SHIELD helicarrier that resulted in the deaths of several SHIELD operatives
BRAINWASHING MOTHER FUCKER!!!
>>78194718
Normally I'd agree, but isn't Steve literally government property or something? I don't think they unthawed him out of the kindness of their hearts.
>>78200695
>if the government saves the life of a citizen, they are now property of the government
Not how America works bro.
>>78196867
Except in the case of the atomic bombs many VASTLY more children would die of starvation and assisted suicide by their own parents if we and the soviets had invaded instead of using the bombs...
>>78196962
>Once you start weighing people's lives in that way, you've gone too far. This kind of thinking requires an almost sociopathic detachment from the act.
No, it fucking does not.
When you KNOW for a fact people will die no matter what, you are morally, ethically, emotionally and logically fucking obligated to pick the choice that will result in the least numbers dead. A sociopath would not fucking care how many die.
>>78198306
>>78198278
>>78200139
There's no way of knowing if he's out of murder mode, though.
>>78194718
>the whole point is that neither is objectively in the right for this movie
>THIS GUY IS RIGHT THIS GUY IS WRONG
Guys. Please.
>>78198079
Trust is not an inherently good thing. Steve trusting Bucky does not in any way make him right.
They are a group of vigilantes who have been operating with absolute impunity, while possessing extreme power.
What's stopping them from going to a nursery to murder babies?
What's stopping them from toppling governments?
What's stopping from from creating chaos in this world?
How are you people okay with this?
>>78202511
>What's stopping them from going to a nursery to murder babies?
>What's stopping them from toppling governments?
>What's stopping from from creating chaos in this world?
We know they have morals and will do what is right!
>>78202591
>We know they have morals and will do what is right!
Blind naivety.
They have already laid waste to New York and caused a city to fall out of the sky.
They need to answer to authority.
>>78197865
I'm advocating that a dangerous war criminal be dealt with by the justice system.
And General Ross did nothing wrong.
>>78202808
>They have already laid waste to New York and caused a city to fall out of the sky.
They didn't lay waste to anything, they repelled a invasion, if a riot breaks out are the police responsible for the damage the rioters do?
This thread is gold. It seems full of twelve years old children intent on trying to justify their hero moral with ridiculous reasons like "I trust "him" more than my government".
>>78203200
If they blow up an entire nation to stop a robot that they built...
Tony was never supposed to be an Avenger in the first place, he is an alcoholic, is losing his mind to paranoia and almost destroyed the Earth with Ultron. He can just about fuck off at this point.
>>78203861
That doesn't mean his current position is wrong. The character of the arguer is not relevant to the argument itself.
>>78203829
Said robot was built by 2 of them without any of the others knowing and said town was going to be destroyed no matter what...
>>78203169
For starters, Bucky isn't a war criminal. Secondly, first you'll have to start with Black Widow and her, as of TWS, openly known history as a freelance assassin, then you'll have to grab Hawkeye, who led an assault on the SHIELD helicarrier, then add on Scarlet Witch, the willing HYDRA terrorist, and, why the hell not, add in Erik Selvig, who built a machine to allow aliens to invade Earth. If Bucky is morally and legally culpable for his actions taken as the Winter Soldier, then so are they.
And General Ross committed at least two constitutional violations.
>>78203861
It's a bullshit. Tony has put the money and resourses, without him Avengers would not even born, but that's not the point.
The point is that the Avenger is a center of power capable of conquering a nation alone. No government would be willing to accept the existence of such a force, no matter how good are the people who run it.
Also the world is quite disunited. American interests may not coincide with the interests of other countries , and so, the whole team may be constantly in conflict of interest for any operation in a foreign land.
when Cap fuck everything at the start of Civil war , someone rightly asks for the bill (as it should be for Tony). Of course it is a way to control their power, but the fact that the mistake was all on Tony, until now, does not rule out that one day Steve could go totally wrong too.
You can not have a similar power force and "hope" that they remain a force for good.
>>78198254
>wanting a trial
>bad
>>78197850
Considering what his plans lead to, yeah he was pretty wrong.
>>78202808
What makes this perceived authority a greater moral paragon in your mind?
>>78203790
What's ridiculous about trusting Captain America more than the government?
>>78203950
The difference is that Bucky isn't clearly reformed or even sane.
>>78195745
>although ineffective
So you want to take the Avengers and put them under the same rules and authority that you acknowledge are ineffective and unenforced?
>>78208147
So execute him?
If MCU Bucky should be hunted down and prosecuted for assassinating people while under mind-control, so should Hawkeye.
