Watched the DVD documentary on this today.
Christ am I sad. There was so much effort and quality put into it, but nobody gave a shit because "hurr black princess" "hurr she turns into a frog". Now we're stuck with formulaic Dreamworks-lite movies with lifeless bland CG animation.
>>78113163
>There was so much effort and quality put into it
That movie fucking sucked though
>>78113232
I'd take it 4352,23456,463464 times over stuff like Frozen any day
>>78113163
nobody gave a shit because it was boring
i mean it was better than anything else disney put out between lion king and tangled (or since tangled), but that's not saying anything. it felt pointless. nothing new happened aside from one pretty fantastic villain. i didn't care about anyone but him. I mean cajun firefly guy was okay and the chubby blonde was mildly amusing, but that's it. the story was nothing.. i mean fuck, entrepreneurialism? that's great, but it's boring.
that and it was hyped up like OMG FIRST BLACK PRINCESS and i had to actually think hard to be sure there hadnt been one before. sure seemed like there had. but (not that there should be) there was nothing black about her or anything else. it was just a new orleans movie, but it barely even showcased any jazz or anything interesting. we got a little houdou but not much. got one good musical number..
if you told me "make a disney movie with black people in it" i'd adapt Untombinde or something. Untombinde is awesome. she doesn't give a fuck if monsters attack her, even in the middle of bathing. she stands her ground and waits for the men to show up and fight it.
>>78113163
Tangled and Frozen were a millions time better. I'm glad Princess Frog failed
>>78113163
Disney played it too safe it was almost like they just made it to say "okay we got all the ethics their movie lets get back to own blondie" i want so much to like the movie but damn it it boring. I like Tangled better. The scenery is beyond beautiful, the songs are good but there is no effort in Tiana beyond I gotta work. And Niven fell just too quickly for me. I guess they wanted the dude to fall first to be different but it felt weird.
Soo much potential and they played it too safe.
>>78113163
There seems to be a negative correlation between disney staff's enjoyment of making a film and its return at the box office.
>>78113163
>There was so much effort and quality put into it
>copy the design of the musical alligator from All Dogs go to Heaven for your musical alligator
>copy the design of the French "Frog Prince" from the Swan Princess cartoon for your French Frog Prince.
>make it with animation far below the quality of your older traditionally animated films because you fired all your good animators years ago to switch to CGI
>>78113398
because you're a contrarian who thinks if it's traditionally animated it MUST be better than anything CG. The only thing that matters is a decent story with characters you care about. PatF didn't do a bad job, but it dragged too much and Tiana was way too single-minded. I feel the lack of a love song hurt the movie since it WAS a Disney movie and that's kinda their thing.
Not saying Frozen was any better, but CG or Hand drawn doesn't matter for crap.
>>78113163
I fucking loved this movie. Can't understand why people hate it.
>>78113163
>give her too many black facial features, people complain she's a caricature
>give her less, now they complain she's just a blackwashed white
there was no winning, so they just kept her a frog for most of the movie.
>>78116786
I've never seen anyone saying they "hate it" they just are "meh" about it. The animation was beautiful, but that was about it. Everything else fell flat.
>Muh black princess
>Spends 90% of runtime as a frog.
>Is a boring character
>Is a boring movie
>Actually had a good villain and wasted him on this weak ass plot
I mean really he can make deals with the dead but can't ask for a glass jar with a few holes punched in the lid so the prince doesn't escape?
>>78113163
It just wasn't as good a movie, to be quite honest. Boring and badly paced.
>>78114502
I like Tangled, but Frozen was kind of meh to me. Princess and the Frog was a good movie.
>>78114502
>>78119110
Tangled was almost a Disney version of Shrek. The plot would've been a witch magically transporting a guy and girl from modern new york into a fairy tale to prove love at first sight is a myth. The boy was rumored to be played by Jack Black. The whole thing wouldv'e been lampshading fairy tale tropes while making awful pop culture references.
Thankfully, Glen Keane had no stomach for it and decided to totally scrap that idea and start all over.
Oh, and the real Rapunzel would've been stuck in a chipmunk's body while the girl from new york inhabited Rapunzel's body.
>>78114502
>not muh precious moeblob bugeyed animu princess
just kill yourself, people like you killed both the western and the japanese animation industry
>>78119183
>people like you killed both the western and the japanese animation industry
It's funny, I didn't know dead industries could produce 1.2 billion dollar movies. I know what you mean, but your choice of words was poor.
>>78119137
Bless Glen Keane.
Also, he's the only animator that had enough pull at Disney to have his Princesses pull "ugly" expressions in order to properly covey emotion.
Seriously, watch Little Mermaid and then BatB and it's weird just how unemotional Belle is with her facial expressions.
>>78119206
marketing has nothing to do with creativity
>>78119340
Dead industries don't make money. It's why they say they're "dead." Your choice of words was poor. Nothing "killed" the animation industry because it's not dead. It's thriving. Just because it's making movies you don't like doesn't mean it's dead.
Besides, Disney hasn't made a truly artistic movie without concern for profit since Sleeping Beauty.
>There was so much effort and quality put into it, but nobody gave a shit because "hurr black princess" "hurr she turns into a frog"
Yeah no, it failed because the movie had a shit plot and (I've been saying this for years now) DISNEY FUCKING RELEASE A 2D MOVIE TWO WEEKS BEFORE JAMES CAMERON'S AVATAR WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU EXPECT!?
Like other anons said Dr. Facilier was great and Charlotte was decent but they alone couldn't save the plot or make Tiana (who has to be the most "safe" disney princess I've seen) stand out character wise.
>>78113163
Dude it failed because 2d animation had run its course and disney stupidly released it in a competitive time.
Her being black had nothing to do with it.
>>78113163
The ending is probably the cleverest of any Disney film. I really hope someone received a large bonus for that
>>78119473
>DISNEY FUCKING RELEASE A 2D MOVIE TWO WEEKS BEFORE JAMES CAMERON'S AVATAR WHAT THE FUCK DID YOU EXPECT!?
Well, I think most people were expecting Avatar to be a Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within-grade bomb right up until it inexplicably became the most successful movie of all time.
>>78119548
You mean where her speakeasy gets busted by the feds? Or when Naveen gets drafted in WWII and is killed? Or when the KKK trashes her restaurant in the 50s? Or when Hurricane Katrina wipes it off the map and she has to file for bankruptcy because FEMA won't reimburse her?
>>78119570
I don't see how that could've happen though, this is the same guy who produced Aliens, Titanic and Terminator 2.
Unlike Square, James knows how to make and sell movies. So either Disney purposly release princess and the frog for it to die (this would not surprise me) or they went retarded at time.
>>78119670
Releasing against Avatar wasn't the problem. Two different target audiences. Frozen released against a Hunger Games movie in it's second week and two weeks later a Hobbit movie released.Wreck-it Ralph released a week before Skyfall and Big Hero 6 released against Interstellar, then 2 weeks later another Hunger Games dropped. They all did well enough. It wasn't what it was up against, it was just that PatF wasn't that good.
>>78119548
Shrek did it better
>>78119670
>The guy who made all these beloved sci-fi films is coming back to do a new movie! He keeps talking about how his revolutionary computer graphics will change movies forever!
Come on, we saw this go wrong before.
It failed because the focus groups and the special interest lobbyists got involved because
>First black princess
Example: Prince Naveen - what fucking race is Naveen? Does anyone know?
Naveen was going to be a white east europe prince but
>Nuh uh! That would make Tianna a race traitor! Does that bitch think she's too good for her own kind?
So how about black african prince?
>Nuh uh! Segregation, what, blacks can only marry blacks amirite? Tianna clearly isn't good enough for pure aryan husband!
So we get a slightly brown foreign prince
The entire movie was basically this: whatever original stuff the scriptwriters wanted to put in got watcered down until it was as bland as fuck.
That's why its mediocre. Not shit, but just not that good either.
>>78119739
>Two different target audiences
The key word here is "target", while Disney may have just been targeting kids, families and blacks. James Cameron was targeting pretty much everyone over the age of 12 (see pg-13 rating). Which is a huge overlap in audience demographics between those two movies.
>>78119745
Unlike George Lucas, James Cameron didn't bank on established franchises much just cliches and typecasting. So while he may have had a big head about his product he wasn't completely blind about it's appeal and marketing.
And honestly the Star Wars prequels did pretty good in the box office. It's just that since it was an already established franchise the audience could be more critical of it and fuck with it's future marketability.
You can't do the same with Avatar since it wasn't an established franchise nor was James Cameron a single genre movie producer. All you knew was the guy who made Titanic, Terminator and Aliens was doing a movie and you better not miss out on the party.
>>78120116
Please take your James Cameron masturbation back to /tv/ where it belongs.
>Dr Faciliers song
>Straight up tells the prince hes going to turn him into a frog
>"You dont want to be tied down, you just want to hop from place to place"
>Flips card over revealing the prince laying on a lillipad
>"For your future its the green I see"
>Even crosses his arms so his right hand shakes Lawrence's and his left shakes the Prince's signaling a deal being struck and betrayal, simultaneously
>"Cmon boys, wont you shake a poor sinners hand?"
He was GOAT
>>78120157
>masturbation
It's not masturbation, it's the fucking truth. Disney knew exactly what they were dealing with here and instead of giving their movie a real chance at the box office they sent it on a suicide mission.
I'm not even saying Avatar was good, it's just stupid to release a movie during that particular time.
>>78114232
>nobody gave a shit because it was boring
This. A movie's worst crime is being so boring no one wants to even bash it. Even Disney's Cinderella was more amusing than this because of the mice antics.
>>78120275
Hold on one fucking minute. Cajun frog hunter slapstick is easily more amusing than mice running around collecting anal beads.
>>78116772
If you agree with him then why did you go on an unrelated tangent?Just to be difficult.
>There are people who fail to notice that Tiana was actually a strong and empowering Disney heroine as opposed to moeblob Rapunzel and whiny Elsa along with slut sister Anna.
>>78121260
a male nerds biggest nightmare
>>78121260
>>78121352
Honestly it legit does annoy me that Frozen is so revered for having positive female role models but PATF isn't.
Like, Frozen did something interesting in making the prince the manipulative jerkoff villain, I appreciate that. That's cool. But Tiana doesn't even really end up a Princess, she ended up running a restaurant, like she wanted.
She very clearly had the pants in that relationship.
I know that feel OP the songs were great and the main cast was cute. Only negative for me was side characters were forgettable.
Also why is there so much hate on Tiana? She was great and was brimming with personality.
>>78121423
From what I've heard, the complaint from most people is legitimately that they set up her up in an interesting fashion in new orleans, and then she turns into a frog and spends most of the movie in the swamp.
I don't really have a problem with a decent transformation story, but I can understand why some people were annoyed with the swamp bits. I can remember Louis, but I couldn't give you a single line of his dialogue. Something something, I want to be a trumpet player. Something something.
>>78121407
Unfortunately it all chalks up to different standards and lack of interest. Adults can appreciate Tiana's resolve and situation she had to deal with (economically low class, farther served and died in a world war, wanted to fufill the dream of owning a business in his stead). But kids didn't and I can't blame them, you could blame the advocaters who do push the Frozen princesses but in truth it would be tough because,
A. Tiana's life is not glamorous.
B. Her Dreams are niche (most kids/girls do not dream of owning a restaurant)
C. By having most of her journey as frog disconnect sets in and depreciates character development.
D. Tiana's brand of female empowerment is more akin to rosie the riveter than it is modern female empowerment.
She's just not that marketable. which explains why they made her a frog for a chunck of the movie to increase her marketability.
I dare say Princess and the frog would have been better off as a live action film.
>>78122486
And what do you think qualifies as modern female empowerment?
>>78113163
>"hurr black princess"
at first I thought they were forcing a black disney princess but I think the actual problem was the fucking marketing for this movie
I decided to watch the movie after it had been out for like two years and my expectations were totally different from the final product
it was one of the best disney movies I have seen for years
>that atmosphere
>that use of sets and characters
none of that was seen in the trailers. they rather focused on the frog storyline shit instead of giving an overview of that fantastic scenery
>>78113163
I still say that the #1 fuckup was giving the music duties to Randy Newman, who is a shit lyricist, when Disney musicals live and die on the catchiness of their lyrics. There was no LET'S GET DOWN TO BUSINESS, no PART OF YOUR WORLD, no ONE BLANKS LIKE GASTON. "Friends on the Other Side" was the only song that got close, and despite it being pretty compelling, its structure meant that there was no chorus for listeners to latch on to. The rest of the songs are completely forgettable (even though Almost There backs a beautifully-conceptualized and animated sequence).
They should have forced him to work with... I dunno, one of the Marsalis brothers or Cee Lo Green or something. Forget the bonafides; Randy Newman is "quaint Southern shit," but "quaint Southern shit" is the white part of the South. It didn't fit at all.
And yes, they should have spent more time with her being a human.
No, nobody gave a shit because of a cool but underwhelming villain, Avatar, a white prince turned black, and side characters more interesting than the main characters.
>>78123157
>its structure meant that there was no chorus for listeners to latch on to
This right here pissed me off. Goddammit, Facilier, stop having talking interludes and sing the whole damn song!
>>78122593
Personally modern female empowerment seems to be more about rectifying social cues than just simply addressing economic/ property rights issues. Aimming more towards philosophical ideas and owning ones image instead of simply being a muse.
Basically it feels more like a revisit of the existentialism movement but exclusively focused on women.
>>78113163
>"hurr black princess" "hurr she turns into a frog". Now we're stuck with formulaic Dreamworks-lite movies with lifeless bland CG animation.
Those CG movies aren't bad, just popular so you can be contrarian. I do love Princess and the Frog, but the main issue with it was the marketing.
No one will take their sons to see a movie with "Princess" in the title. It's just not going to happen. At least with Frozen and Tangled you could trick your son into thinking it's not for girls.
Princess and the Frog > Frozen.
Better written, much better animation, didn't suffer from sameface, better characters and the songs weren't annoying.
Also Keith David.
>>78113163
>There was so much effort put into it
Yeah, because its animation
Unless its Titanic 2, animation requires a ton of effort for anything to look kind of good.
Doesn't mean the movie is automatically good
>>78113163
I spoke with the writer,cool dude, told him how much I dug the color scheme and the brilliance of a disney film built on hard work getting you shit instead of magic.
