Are the Star Wars movies holding the IP back? Could something better be done with it without having to constrain events to fit the movies (which didn't really plan ahead - or behind)? Would you prefer an unconstrained and rich expanded universe across all media or a movie trilogy every ~20 years?
I only watch the movies, therefore they're what I care about.
The EU is nice but people put too much stock in it. The OT is still the best work from the entire franchise, it's the best blending off all of Lucas' disparate concepts and influences into one work. The focus a movie trilogy gives is what made the originals so spectacular. I don't think any other work in the entire franchise has ever combined Japanese samurai movies, 1940's serials and German expressionist cinema in the right balances like the OT did, and this includes the Prequel Trilogy.
I really enjoy the EU, but people who argue its somehow better then the original trilogy just seem like lunatics to me.
>>77945080
>an unconstrained and rich expanded universe across all media
Yes.
>>77945183
The fat bisexual NEET has spoken.
>>77945080
No, what I like about the SW universe is having a fixed timeline instead of reboots/alternative universes/remakes etc.
I would love a Star Wars video game based on McQuarrie's art, with an extremely shallow plot where Vader is just a big bad you need to defeat and the troopers are just cannon fodder for you to mow down, with no clones or prophesied Jesus-parallels. Maybe with low poly models and really tight 60FPS gameplay/swordplay/gunplay.
>>77945080
makes me want a star wars film done by ridley scott
>>77945249
Where the bad guy looks like Handsome Squidward?
>this meme image portrays a better Obi-Wan and Anakin relationship than the entire prequel trilogy
EU please
>>77945080
We already have both.
We have scores of novels, dozens of video games, tabletop & role playing games, comics, cartoons in 2D & 3D, and enough merchandise to suffocate a Sarlacc.
Nothing is being held back.
Also nothing is canon. Who decides that?
Lucas? The man who has been selling out since Christmas 1977, ruined the franchise last decade, and has no creative control anymore?
Disney? The multi-headed corporate beast that bought the band wagon for billions in hopes of earning billions more?
I say just pick out what pieces you like and be happy with them.
No no, you've got that entirely backwards.
The Star Wars IP is holding the movies back. Well, not holding back, but constraining. And not just the movies, but the comics, shows, and video games. Things need to be sufficiently 'Star Wars-y' So there's little room for new directions or creative decisions. Sometimes the cartoons or a game will manage to pull away from the Star Wars brand, and slip something weird and interesting under the radar, but not very often.
The movies don't really have the room to try this, or maybe a better way to put it, can't afford to take as many risks.
Also, dear god I love those concept art light sabers.
>>77945585
>Darth Maul is quite an enemy in the comics
>only lasts a fucking movie
>Grievous is a fucking badass in the cartoon
>dies like a bitch in the movie
Nah.
>>77945080
>Are the Star Wars movies holding the IP back?
If anything, it's the other things that aren't the movie holding it back.
The general public only sees the movies (and maybe the TV shows)
>>77945216
I'd play the shit out of Star Wars: Galactic Heroes
>>77945080
Might as well start an entirely new IP
>>77945080
>Are the Star Wars movies holding the IP back?
The Star Wars movies are the IP. Everything else is vestigial.
Only in the sense that the slavish need to intersect and wiggle with the movies is what drags down the quality of the comics and video games.
>Could something better be done with it without having to constrain events to fit the movies (which didn't really plan ahead - or behind)? Would you prefer an unconstrained and rich expanded universe across all media or a movie trilogy every ~20 years?
lol, Disney is going to give us a new Star Wars every other year for the next twenty years.
EUs are always troublesome because they expand too quickly, and end up byzantine and impenetrable.
What I would truly like is a nice reconceived Star Wars, not set in a particular timeline, not related to any movie characters, simply telling an original story with the concept of Jedi knights, light sabers, set in space long long ago, in a galaxy far far away.
>>77945080
The EU was full of dumb shit because there was almost no constraint. You had all these authors coming in who shat up the place because they didn't know what stories actually worked with Star Wars.
I still maintain that this experimental stuff should be played out as AU stories. Kotor already felt like one and frankly would do better not being shoved into the primary timeline as it is.
>>77945585
I'm waiting for the day some Star Wars movie comes along and the writers want to try such and such plot point, and the story group starts shooting them down because such and such bullshit was established in this comic or that book or, fuck, even the cartoon. A completely consistant universe is nice in theory, but I think before too long Lucasfilm will have to reinstate the tiered canon system. Anything less isn't feasible.
>>77947180
What bothers me are the rules and elements accidentally brought on by the movies:
>Obi-Wan and Yoda's outfits from the original trilogy are the Jedi "uniforms"
>all Sith lords have red lightsabers and their names begin with Darth
>the Force is used mostly for choking and lightning
There are more but these are the main offenders. Surely you wouldn't want them (to some degree) in your reimagining, but they have become the Star Wars staple due to the movies, and it can limit creative vision.
>>77947180
>What I would truly like is a nice reconceived Star Wars, not set in a particular timeline, not related to any movie characters, simply telling an original story with the concept of Jedi knights, light sabers, set in space long long ago, in a galaxy far far away.
That's what Tales of the Jedi tried to be. Though after KotoR that time period started to borrow more and more form the movies.
>>77947963
I don't know if any other franchise as self-derivative as Star Wars. It's a little silly how all Mandalorians are armored bounty hunter badasses because of Boba Fett, or how all Corellians are smugglers and daredevil pilots like Han Solo. But Lucas really did take it to an entirely new level in the prequels.
>>77948107
Honestly though, in the context of the original trilogy, even the Jedi are just one element of the story, and not the central pillar of it.
>>77947041
who'd give a shit if it didn't have lightsabers?
If there's anything unbelievably stupid in the Star Wars universe that limits the stories, then it's the Rule of Two. It'd be worth rebooting the entire IP over it. Don't know if it remained canon though.
>>77949514
Also post more Vader.
>>77949594
>>77949625
>>77949641
>>77949652
>>77947963
>>Obi-Wan and Yoda's outfits from the original trilogy are the Jedi "uniforms"
>>all Sith lords have red lightsabers and their names begin with Darth
>>the Force is used mostly for choking and lightning
Hell, the Emperor in the original trilogy disdainfully refers to lightsabers as a "jedi weapon" the implication being that Darth Vader only had one as a former Jedi, and not that all dark side force users would have one.
>>77945585
>Sometimes the cartoons or a game will manage to pull away from the Star Wars brand, and slip something weird and interesting under the radar, but not very often.
I'm interested in what you're referring to, do you happen to have any specific examples?
>>77948111
>It's a little silly how all Mandalorians are armored bounty hunter badasses
Uh, I think you need to watch some certain episodes of TCW
I would love to have seen a starwars universe evolve without the expanded universe. Something that properly borrows from it's pulpy inspirations. Something similar to the Hyboria where despite there being a definitive timeline, places and groups, much of it is still left to the imagination. Anything can happen and very little is every explained in depth but it's all bound together by a distinctive style.
>>77950960
Right, and the villains in those episodes was literally an army of Boba Fett clones.
Pre-New Hope should be the most bad-ass crazy shit that could ever possibly exist
>Entire wars fought over between an army of cloned warriors and a group of laser-sword wielding super-knights who can bend reality to their bidding
>Space-cruisers and battleships would have been only recently invented, forcing most battles to happen on entire planets turning worlds into battlegrounds or in space with clone ships by the thousands against the single group of space popes who manage to get a cruiser
>Everybody hates both Sword-Wizards and Clone Armies because every time they fight somebody's home is destroyed
>Out of the blue comes the Emperor, a man who's mastered all the powers of this universe yet has chosen to use them for personal gain by warping the minds of kings and politicians so that they can all be unified under the rule of a single Empire and the ultimate equalizer, the Death Star
>Shit's so expensive that every planet goes into severe debt making a galactic version of the Depression forcing millions to quit their jobs so they can become smugglers and traders in hope of striking gold in the farthest reaches of space while Robots start coming in to pick up the rest of humanity's slack
>The Emperor's won, but steals some old guy's prodigy student and turns him into a kick-ass cyborg warrior to instill fear throughout the ranks of his conquered universe as a final Middle Finger to everybody
But nope, fuck you, instead we get Jar Jar Binks and Hayden Christensen murdering babies
>>77952031
Hayden was an okay choice. Everything else was bad though.
>>77952723
I'd like that pic a lot better without the Instagram filter.
>>77952031
The basic outline and setting of the prequels is fine, better than that retarded Dune/DBZ hybrid you suggested. They only really fell apart with writing and acting, but Tartakovsky's Clone Wars and The Clone Wars, as well as a tonne of comics prove the setting was bretty good.
>>77952723
On the other hand, if "he doesn't look like Luke" was the biggest complaint one could make about the prequels, we'd have better movies.
>>77945080
I dunno, but I find it hilarious how EU writers tried to make sense of the nonsense technobabble in the first movie by coming up with courses where fast ships can take shorter routes due to gravity or something and a rating system for engines where lower means faster.
>>77952827
>the setting was bretty good
(not that anon) I personally didn't feel that an artificial war orchestrated by an old guy, between expendable armies of identical clones versus expendable armies of identical droids, was as monumental as it's made out to be. Yes I'm oversimplifying but I didn't feel tension at all, it could have been handled a lot better. (i.e. a lot differently)
>>77953153
That was more so because the prequels were fucking everywhere. Not to mention Episode I is a waste of a movie. However, if Lucas had taken the time to give the Clones personalities in the films like they did in TCW and the Comics, the audience would have been able to get more invested easier.
>this guy's honeymoon was on this guy's home planet
Kinda makes them look silly.
>>77945080
You know, I wish Disney would let Lucas at least give a little creative output.
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>>77953514
For all the shit Star Wars neckbeards give Lucas he did come up with three of the greatest movies of all time
>>77946655
DoubleDubs cant lie
>>77953425
What's silly is how huge the helmet looks on that not-Prowse body.
>>77953633
Nobody gives him shit about the OT, even though he only directed one and had a lot of people who helped make it work in the first place.
>>77953633
Only Empire is even close to that level, and thats the one Lucas had the least involvement with
>>77947821
>Kotor already felt like one and frankly would do better not being shoved into the primary timeline as it is.
for me it's the exact opposite, I love Kotor because it's nothing like the things that came before. I rather have hundreds of different ideas that don't match up together than a single lame idea that just gets recycled over and over and over again.
>>77951516
Which is funny because Boba Fett isn't even Mandalorian.
>>77954154
Isn't Mandalorian just an ideal anyway? Not a species but a set of values
>>77953719
ROTJ is the best
ESB didn't have these
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfcg7BfsM90
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghVK7iVr-Jc
>>77953694
I'm talking more about the faggots who wind up saying dumb shit like "I wish Lucas was never born"
>>77945336
Young Obi-Wan was the best things about the prequels
>>77954334
>ROTJ is the best
lolno
>>77954473
The ending was the best, though it was brought down by the lacklustre ground confrontation and especially the Ewoks. The Ewoks did more than just hurt RoTJ, they made Stormtroopers into dickless incompetents.
>>77954334
In terms of pure filmmaking ROTJ is mediocre.
>>77954574
The Ewoks weren't the only weird/silly thing about those movies. Still don't see why that of all things wound up ruining the movie for people.
>>77954611
>>77954473
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRY5dl_oxvo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPZigWFyK2o
>Pure filmmaking
I ain't a goddamn film student, I'm a nigga who likes cool shit
And apart from the weird insertion of Hayden Christiansen it's got a better ending too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiM5zEEI_Jo
Movies fans, call me the day we see Quinlan Vos and/or Ostrander's Villie on the big screen.
>>77954687
>I ain't a goddamn film student, I'm a nigga who likes cool shit
Nothing wrong with that subjectively, but when you look at it objectively Empire is a much better film, but it doesn't even break the Greatest films of all time list.
>>77954696
>Quinlan Vos
Quinlan Vos appears in TPM
>>77945205
I bet in some decades there will be a reeboot.
>>77945336
How bad would the prequels have been if anyone but Ewan McGregor had been cast as Obi-Wan?
>>77954696
>>77947953
I think this is why they aren't letting anyone touch anything more than a year or so after RotJ
>>77955278
Empire would make a Greatest American Films of All Time list.
>>77945471
I think what Disney is doing is pretty cool. They basically did a soft reboot. They can pull any part of the old canon into the new canon if they want. And they have a cohesive universe now. It's more like comics when you think about it. Though given the recent trend of rebooting every year that is arguably a bad thing.
>>77960600
>Aftermath
>cohesive
>>77955337
He does??
>>77954154
>>77954202
It's gone back and forth until Lucas decided he wasn't.
>>77960834
Aftermath is cohesive in terms of its narrative. It's just written incredibly badly.
And ironically, there will be a disconnect of sorts. Chuck is going to have more and more homosexuals show up in subsequent books as revenge for people not loving Aftermath (he's said as much in his crazy rants). But it's unlikely every other nu-EU writer will do the same thing, so his books are going to come off like they're happening in a different universe altogether. One where 50% of the populace is gay for reasons.
>>77965902
All of the gays in the book were of no consequence. You wouldn't even notice they were gay unless you paid attention to the shitty writing. The interludes were all more interesting than the story itself.
Lords of the Sith had a gay guy that mattered, who's sexuality was used against him as blackmail in order for him to help the soon-to-be rebels try and kill the emperor.
>>77960600
Disney is riding the nostalgia train too hard for me to get really interested in anything coming from them.
>>77968532
>Lords of the Sith had a gay guy that mattered, who's sexuality was used against him as blackmail in order for him to help the soon-to-be rebels try and kill the emperor.
I think you're remembering that incorrectly. Belkor Dray wasn't gay, that was Mors, the woman he was conspiring to replace as Moff of Ryloth. Belkor was already helping Cham and his rebel movement on Ryloth so her could discredit Mors and take her place Then when Belkor tried to back out, Cham threatened to release evidence that Belkor was helping him, thus exposing him as traitor.
The Empire doesn't give a shit abut sexuality, hell Moff Mors was married until her wife died in some kind of accident.
>>77968532
>>77969238
gay pandering has no place in Star Wars
>>77969274
I know this is just shitposting and bait, but Mors hardly counts as pandering. She's lazy and hedonistic, spending most of her time getting high off of spice, chatting with Hutt crime lords, and diddling her Twi'lek slave girls, rather than actually running Ryloth, which she leaves to Belkor. I'm surprised tumblr wasn't crying out for Kemp's severed balls for such a problematic portrayal of an LGBT person.
>>77969460
I also forgot to mention speciesist. Mors selects all of her Twi'lek slaves based on a certain color, so that they match the decor of her palace.
>>77952723
Given that Natalie Portman, who has proven herself to be a Decent to perhaps even Fairly Good actress in her other work, turned in a shit performance in the Original Trilogy, I feel confident in saying that the bad acting in the prequels was not the result of bad actors, but a director who wasn't doing his fucking job combined with a ton of green screen and a bizarre script. Few people could act their way out of that minefield, I don't hold it against Hayden Christensen for being shit in the prequels.
>>77945336
>>77955541
Would have been pretty fucking rough. He carries a fuck of a lot of II and III purely on his love of Star Wars alone. I'm glad his spirit hasn't even been utterly broken to it either; we may yet get an Obi-Wan anthology movie. Hell, that scene on the train and a lot of his goofy banter with Anakin at the beginning of the movie made me think "Holy shit, it's actually fucking STAR WARS" and not "PREQUELS" for the first time. They actually felt like old bros who had been through some shit together and not some dude wrangling an edgelord.
>>77952723
Ok, thank you. I thought I was the only motherfucker who got creeped out by just how much he was looking like Mark Hamill during Ep. III.
>>77945080
Fuck off, EU is a fucking mess written by hundreds of people all of varying skill levels. Some of it is just dumb, some contradicts the movies directly. And dumb.
>>77968532
Given that it's trendy to have to explain and call out that a character is gay in the most obvious way, what would really stop Daala from old EU from being gay? It'd still be a character from a shitty book but hey, at least it'd be like Chuck's.
>>77945196
Wow, you really had a problem with one anon's opinion.
>>77969274
>he didn't actually read LOTS
>>77965902
The entire Aftermath thing was even more retarded when the whole "First Gay Characters In Star Wars" thing was just patently false.
Ferus Olin was created YEARS before Aftermath was even a thing, and had the nice bonus of genuinely good writing behind him.
>>77945080
>Are the Star Wars movies holding the IP back?
Not really. Darkhorse did stuff like Infinities and The Starwars and comedy comics. I see no reason why Marvel could not do the same or tell new stories set in the "Legends" universe. Keep one cannon with the new movies and do other stuff on the side.
>>77963836
>>77945183
KOTOR 2 is legit better than the OT.
