So Marjorie Liu's work has been good for the most part, and Chelsea Cain has completely shit the bed with Mockingbird.
What do you guys think about hiring romance authors to write comics?
Fine by me. I don't think it has that much bearing on their work and it is nice to see actual professionals rather than ascended fanboys in the field.
I think Liu has written comic books with established characters in a way that makes sense in their setting and largely succeeded.
I think Cain came in with an agenda and didn't care if it made sense for the character, the setting, or even the story she was writing.
It's not a matter of what their writing background was. One came in to do a good job for the fans, the other came in to do a good job for her side in the culture wars. It's no shock that one has produced generally good work and the other is probably going to have her book cancelled.Also, Liu's comic Monstress helps prove she's got amazing range outside of both superheroes and romance novels, so she's just a better writer.
>>84582980
>Chelsea Cain has completely shit the bed with Mockingbird.
Only one issue. The first two were great.
>>84583037
Didn't she leave her lover tied up in his apartment with no way to get help in one of those?
That's the kind of shit people who practice BDSM have nightmares about. Like, wake up screaming nightmares. It's sexual abuse and you can die horribly over a period of days from it and it was played for laughs. Fuck those issues.
>>84583059
Are you serious?
Liu's astonishing was terrific, doesn't get the appreciation it deserves
>>84583095
It's kind of a button for me. My friend went missing for like 36 hours in college and then it turned out her girlfriend had tied her to a bed and then gone to a concert for the weekend thinking that was what bondage entitled her to do. She needed to be hospitalized.
I know you think I'm being a pussy but people die from this shit every year.
>>84583059
>>84583095
>>84583153
I wasn't mad but it was pretty gross how it was played as empowering to do that instead of at all a dick move.
>>84583153
You have to understand that not all people see it that way, and there are effective jokes where people do much worse.
The problem is the protagonist (for example) isn't anywhere near a Deadpool on the edgy nonchalance/complete moral bankruptcy scale, so it doesn't work as a joke.
>>84583216
It was happening to a straight white man, so it was presented as an acceptable target. But in a superhero comic there aren't acceptable targets for sexual abuse.
Well, unless you're writing an antihero comic. Bueno...
>>84583153
>waaaah bad things happen to people don't make jokes about it
Fuck off
>>84583211
>>84583216
How was it played as empowering exactly? She was forced to leave before sex cause she has to go to the doctor all the time.
It wasn't even edgy or anything it was completely nonchalant and the tone stayed light.
Christ you people are as easily triggered as tumblr.
>>84583283
She left him tied to the bed against his will and smiled about it with the tone staying light, even though that's a fucked-up thing for the heroine to do to a sexual partner and really unsafe BDSM.
I know it's hard to imagine why that would be scary for you since you never have to worry about trusting sex partners, but in the real world it's not cool.
>>84583037
As was the 4th and the one-shot that the series spun out of. Really, only the 3rd issue has been bad or pushed the "SJW agenda" or what have you.
>>84582980
Wasn't there same thread yesterday?
>Majorie Liu
>Good
To use the classic phrase: Pick one.
C'mon, guys. A former fanfic writer turned 'pro.'
>>84583375
Has she written anything particularly bad?
Black Widow, Dark Wolverine, X-23 were all good.
Only Astonishing X-Men was underwhelming, but it was still okay.
>>84583333
>but in the real world it's not cool.
So? In the real world I wouldn't be entertained by a gunfight but I can still enjoy die hard. My dad's house got shot at a month ago but I still like Boys in the Hood. My older brother killed himself but I've laughed at a joke about suicide or two. It's not that serious. Quit being a fucking pussy.
>>84583036
>probably going to have her book cancelled.
it's already cancelled
>>84583456
I'm not saying she's Mark Millar but just because the competition is worse doesn't mean she's good, either.
Everything I've read from her screams mediocrity and fangirl.
In other words, she's a less qualified version of Geoff Johns. Shit.
And I like Geoff Johns usually. Except for his Green Lantern run.
>>84583502
Shocking.
>I'm not saying she's Mark Millar
Read Starlight.
>>84583351
>Really, only the 3rd issue has been bad or pushed the "SJW agenda" or what have you
While we're on the subject I just thought the story was really fucking awkward "SJW" shit aside. That girl got her superpowers and panicking and just trying to not hurt her friends and then she blows up some news copter and maybe kills a bunch of people on the street and when Mockingbird gets off her ass finally and catches the girl's friends from out the air they all pose into the camera. What the fuck? All these people just died and the super powered girl's fate is left completely up in the air. It was a complete fucking disaster while Mockingbird goes on about how much of a hero she is.
>>84583456
>Astonishing X-Men was underwhelming
it had what was probably the best Iceman story in...the character's history. Very good Karma stories too.
>>84582980
Caín first 3 issues of mockingtits were good, the 4 was kinda meh/bad but that more to do with the message and the way the were trying to tell it
>>84582980
14 IAFD credits
>>84583538
>Everything I've read from her screams mediocrity and fangirl.
I could see that from /maybe/ X-23, but her Black Widow was fantastic and I didn't get that vibe from it at all.
But okay.
>>84583571
>it had what was probably the best Iceman story in...the character's history.
And we're all remember Iceman for story that came later.
I love the fact that marjorie liu enjoys Cecilia Reyes so much
>>84583283
>It wasn't even edgy or anything it was completely nonchalant and the tone stayed light.
That's the point I was making. She isn't have an edgy twist or complete lack of scruples, so it isn't funny like if Deadpool did it.
It didn't OFFEND me, mind you. It was just flat.
>>84583698
It wasn't supposed to be that big of a deal in the first place.
>>84583729
That's the point, why bother?
>>84583776
Cause it was some cutesy ass shit in a cutesy ass book in an issue predominately about BDSM.
>>84583816
If you do an issue about BDSM and get it that wrong then your work is as useful as 50 Shades of Grey.
>>84583729
And, again, that nonchalance with nothing to offset it means it's unfunny. It's just an unkind thing that happened without a strong punchline.
It's like the difference between knocking over someone's glass without saying anything and grabbing a child's sippy cup and throwing it on the ground. The latter is cruel in a funny way while the other is just indifferent. If it occurs in a way that doesn't appear intentional and the character has no history of excessive cruelty or absentmindedness, it just makes the audience think the character is a jerk instead of laughing at the misfortune.
>>84582980
Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were romance authors (Kirby invented romance comics, Lee brought a ton of romance comic tropes to superheroes). It can work.
>>84583838
Its a superhero comic not a fucking guidebook for bdsm.
>>84583843
Tone matters. No it wasn't a funny punchline but it wasn't as serious as you're trying to make it out to be.
>>84583969
If a joke isn't funny then you have to examine the dry facts, which were unpleasant.
>>84584082
Umm no. Like I said tone matters. That's the difference between leaving someone hanging and locking someone in a rape dungeon. If the guy had been crying and screaming for help you'd have a point but what we got was a pretty run of the mill "hey where'd you go?" gag.
>>84583969
>it wasn't as serious as you're trying to make it out to be.
I'm not saying it's serious at all. As I've told you TWICE, the tone is part of why it's unfunny. It isn't played up or taken advantage of. It doesn't even feel like a joke. If your point doesn't come across for most people, it's usually bad writing.
>>84584183
If someone hesitates but leaves someone tied up because the thing they have to do is more important, or does it to spite them, or is INCREDIBLY absent-minded and forgot about them, that's funny.
There's CHARACTER and RELATABLE CIRCUMSTANCES. Someone does a bad thing because of a negative character trait and you find humor in your pity for the other party.
If someone's left strung up and there's nothing more to it, it's unfunny and makes the character look bad. The "lighthearted" tone or nonchalance doesn't change that: it exacerbates it.
Personally, I don't really care about it much, but it is shitty writing in so much as the writer not understanding how to properly manipulate their audience.
>>84584993
>I'm not saying it's serious at all
You said it reflects poorly on the character which it only does if you're taking this shit seriously and there isn't any reason to.
>>84585207
>The "lighthearted" tone or nonchalance doesn't change that: it exacerbates it.
Why? According to the tone its easy to understand that the guy is probably just fine and the handcuffs are actually probably not a big deal. Again its just a run off the mill gag. Not particularly funny but no big deal.
>>84582980
Liu is perfect and her ice-man arc was the best.
>>84582980
She a qt.
>>84583153
>her girlfriend
Well, what did she expect?
>>84583027
>Romance novelists
>Professionals
Liu's written some good, bad, and mediocre comics, but I lost respect for her when she jumped on the "I totally wrote Bobby as in the closet in my Astonishing run" bandwagon for progressive points.
>wanted an Asian to play Iron Fist
She's retarded
>>84587008
His entire premise relies on orientalism, it's not that retarded to want an Asian Iron Fist.
Romance as a genre is retarded, as a supplement to another story it's okay.
>>84587085
It is when Shang Chi already exists and an Asian Iron Fist situation would only lead to "Asians are always stereotyped as martial artists or scientists" complaints, making it a no-win situation.
>>84583570
The cover of a later issue implies that the girl is going to be back, at least going by the bubbles.
>>84587176
You're right, I'm just saying she had a somewhat relevant reason for wanting that rather than, to use an example, making a well-known character black just to capitalize on the current social/political situation.
I haven't read Mockingbird, what's so bad about it?
>>84582980
>So Marjorie Liu's work has been good for the most part
I seriously hope you're kidding.
>>84588463
>just to capitalize on the current social/political situation.
You're talking about the person that after Bendis made Iceman gay she came out and said "oh yeah, I was totally wrote him as gay too"
