What do you guys think of the new Gods?
I like half of it a lot (New Gods proper and Mr. Miracle)and can not get into the other half at all (Superman's Pal, Forever People)
I really don't like the direction those characters have taken and what they have come to represent in DCU and the only really great use of them after was Simonson's Orion series.
>>84447070
Kirby, Byrne, and Morrison are the only ones who have a clue what to do with them
>>84447132
>Byrne
N O P E
Morrison too has some problems. Turpin getting corrupted's a definte statement, but it's one that flies in the face of what Kirby was working toward in New Gods.
I wish Kirby could have finished New Gods the way he wanted to. Growing older, learning more about the man and his philosophy that he was putting into comics and the messages he was sending (don't be afraid of the new generation, facism is anti-life, perserverance will truimph over oppression and upbringing will overcome "destiny") it's incredible ahead of it's time.
>>84447070
I liked Moore's brief dabble with them, I liked Kirby's stuff, and I love Morrison's stuff.
I wasn't really a fan of their use outside of their own series though, they always feel much less "godlike" when they have to play villains or support characters to mainstream DC stuff.
>>84447239
The biggest problem I have with Morrison's approach is the whole 5th World thing.
>>84447239
>implying couch-surfing hobo Darkseid isn't best Darkseid, and that Sleez isn't the best porno director in the DCU
Byrne's New Gods stuff was fun as hell
>>84447132
>Byrne
softly trolled
More people need to read Orion
>>84447362
Sleeze wasn't a porn director, he was a talent scout and producer. Crack open a Byrne book much? It don't sound like ya do!
>>84447070
I think they're fascinating but hard to love, like a lot of Kirby's solo stuff. I can admire the ideas and imagination but I don't feel the emotional connection with them that I feel for Kirby/Lee (i.e. Kirby's vision diluted for the masses).
>>84447070
A comic where you need time to read and comprehend it.
>>84447329
Another example of Morrison, and a lot of writers, bending these characters to fit a specific peg
>>84447445
Also it is a really gross example of this creative enterprise by one guy with a history of being screwed over by comics having one of his largest legacies turned into the Pre-Cursors for Corporate Superheroes.
Also being the history for characters 30 years old then this work.
>>84447522
Morrison's kind of a chowderhead at times. Like the stuff he said about Siegel and Shuster when his Action 52 stuff was coming out
>>84447404
I've been checked. I'm honestly impressed that you knew the specifics of that scene well enough to call me out. And evidence to back it up. Nice.
>tfw I've been incorrectly thinking Sleeze was the director for years
>>84447132
>Byrne
>Not Simonson
C'mon, Anon
>>84447070
Amazing. I own some of the omnibuses. I love Jack Kirby's work and I hate that most of the attention the New Gods get is focused on Darkseid and Apokolips. I read that the JL movie will take inspiration from Kirby so I hope to god Orion appears.
Kirby's Fourth World is very big to me. It's important to me.
>>84447563
What'd he say? I remember him just glowing about them in an interview many years ago...did he change his tune?
>>84447099
Pretty much this. It's a shame that most comic creators don't get New Gods.
>>84447445
Can someone explain what specifically Morrison got so wrong, and what Kirby was trying to say that Morrison missed?
I'm curious, 'cause I like both takes on the New Gods, but I didn't really see them as conflicting too hard.
>>84447613
The big thing to me is Darkseid
Morrison's Darkseid is this big capital F FINAL VILLAIN and Kirby's is way more laid back and mellow and banal
>>84447613
>but I didn't really see them as conflicting too hard
Because it's...not.
Kirby's version comes down to "Even gods must die. The universe goes on" which is kinda what Morrison was trying to do with FC, it's hopeful and Kirby was a hopeful person. It's definitely the least conflicting take out of anyone that's tackled the New Gods.
>>84447590
This explains it really well for me
Morrison himself says it in Supergods(AVOID) and some Interviews I can't find right now
>“Like so many artists, musicians, and entertainers,” Morrison tells us, “they were creating a product to sell,” and once the ink hit the back of that check any immorality on the part of the buyer was no longer of consequence. To Morrison, Siegel and Shuster seem to be romantic bits of history, not actual ruined lives. Superman clearly matters more to him, and the idea that he might be in the wrong for participating in the continued unethical use of the character is never brought up. Over the course of the book, however, it becomes clear that someone as smart and self-promoting as Morrison is incapable of playing ignorant for too long. As any good writer would be, Morrison sees the tragedy of Siegel and Shuster — and simply refuses to care. “Leaving his fathers far behind on the doomed planet Poverty,” a memorable passage runs, “Superman… flew into the hands of anyone who could afford to hire him.” This might sound like a call to arms if it was coming from anyone but a beneficiary of the events being detailed, but for Morrison it’s just another dramatically potent tidbit to drop into the latest bestseller. When the fact that the total amount Siegel and Shuster were ever paid for their creation is about as much as today’s big-name comics writers make in a week, it’s cited not as something the industry deserves to be ashamed of, but “an example of how far the business has come”.
>>84447646
Kirby's is more laid-back, but I don't think Kirby's intention was for the character to get so nerfed Batman could kick his ass. That's part of what Morrison was trying to undo with his version, and I think it fits well with Kirby's ideas. Darkseid may have a slightly different personality, but both Morrison and Kirby make him out to be an awesome, incomprehensibly powerful being
>>84447646
That is true, though from reading Kirby's stuff, I always figured that thing would happen once Darkseid found the ALE that he was always looking for.
>>84447686
>>84447708
That was my thoughts.
>>84447697
Supergods is great, fuck off.
Orion is GOAT. I don't like most Fourth World designs, including Orion's sky segway.
>>84447646
I actually thought that Morrison nailed the idea of an impotent God of Evil who could not capitalize on his Empire of Control in a very Kirbyesque fashion. Kirby always had Darkseid playing the manipulator but he showed the God's inertia and failure to ever destroy the light.
>>84447613
It's mainly about how strigent Kirby was with his message of triumph over adversity. Like HL said, the New Gods fail and have to be saved by the DC heroes, Orion falls, Turpin is corrupted, stuff like that that dips into hopelessness that, while overly optimistic, painted a lot of Kirby's themes
>>84447741
Supergods is a great biography on Morrison's methods. It's a hack philosophy book though
>>84447697
What I was thinking of. Along similar lines from a CBR interview
>You look at the people who created those characters, and they’re all dead. But the characters will still be around in 50 years probably – at least the best of them will. So I try not to concern myself with that. These are deals made in times before I was even born. I can say from experience that young creative people tend to sell rights to things because they want to get noticed. They want to sell their work and to be commercial. Then when they grow up and get a bit smarter, they suddenly realize it maybe wasn’t so good and that the adults have it real nice. [Laughs] But still, it’s kind of the world. I wouldn’t want to comment on that because it was something I wasn’t around for. I can’t tell why they decided to do what they did. Obviously Bob Kane came in at the same age and got a very different deal and profited hugely from Batman’s success. So who knows? They were boys of the same age, but maybe some of them were more keen to sell the rights than others. It all just takes a different business head.
>>84447404
>talent scout
Why superman? Plastic man or Green Lantern seem to be a better alternative.
>>84447818
Because he was there at the time and convience is mission one for sex traffickers like sleeze
>>84447401
>non-kirby fifth world
>>84447952
It is your loss anon, not mine.
>>84447998
More liek DC's loss
>>84447818
Why did One Night In Paris sell so well, when it's a pretty shit video? It's the draw of a celebrity. Skilled scouts like Sleeze understand getting a big name is worth it in the end. And a Plastic Man porno seems like it'd be a niche fetish item anyway, probably not worth the effort it'd take to produce. GL would be more mainstream, but still, he's a clear step below Superman in the public consciousness. Maybe a GL tape would sell like hotcakes in Coast City, but a Superman tape would bring in big money not just in Metropolis, but in every city. The international markets would take to a porno staring America's most recognizable hero much more voraciously than they would a porno starring a well-known-but-not-ubiquitous hero like GL. Presumably Sleeze is aware of the DC porno-market data, and chooses his stars accordingly. That's why he's a professional--he thinks things through and works hard to deliver a quality product that will increase shareholder value. We could all learn a bit from him.
>>84448041
>when it's a pretty shit video?
Clearly you missed Paris' Jenna Haze tier power blowjob
It doesn't count really as New Gods comics but when Darkseid would show up in Giffen comics in like 5 Years Later Legion and stuff that was pretty good.
>>84447329
I actually like the idea of them existing in a kind of dream time where their stories repeat. Makes them very god like.
I want someone to bring them back and have them continue the cosmic Cold War on Earth. I want the Obrian mob to fight Intergang. I want Superman to vacation in Supertown with Lois. I want the DNA project to change the world for the better and basically be what Quantum and his friends were in All Star Superman. I want Himon to teach kids in Suicide Row how to make Mother Boxes.
There's so much potential untapped. The New Gods need to have a world where they can really interact with the world.
>>84448071
please nigger, that video was hot garbage. The blowjob was probably the best part of the whole thing. Kim K's sex tape was better, and you could have simulated that by bashing together 2 prone army men
I wish so much of the stuff he did after New Gods wasn't such a trainwreck.
Or what seems like taking advantage of comic fans by putting "An Idea by Jack Kirby" on the cover of a comic and giving it to an artist and writer who were very meh.
There was good stuff Captain Victory is dope, and there is some Simonson and Ditko art in there
And also this,
Come Along let us see what could have been.
>>84448702
ok I'm game
Darkseid? Who is that I don't know who you are talking about.
>>84447998
It's not that good.
>>84449092
We are gonna disagree about that.
No other issue ever came out.
The 'Kirbyverse' ended here until all that Genesis stuff
>>84448230
Couldn't disagree more. It was awful and one of the lowest points in that run.
Silver Star and Captain Victory though both have some really great late period Kirby art.
>>84449158
I just really like him drawn in that era Giffen style.
>>84449188
I mean who doesn't but the content beyond it left much to be desired
>>84449158
Agreed.
>>84447808
>maybe some of them were more keen to sell the rights than others
The difference is that Bob Kane had his father come on and handle the contracts for him. Anyone with any amount of experience in business or the law would look at those contracts and laugh. So the best targets were young men desperate for work
Dynamite is still doing this by hiring artists straight out of school who largely don't know how shitty the contracts being put in front of them are
>>84448702
I'm curious if you've read Godland and what your thought on it were. I love Scioli's Kirby style on American Barbarian and Transformers vs GI Joe
>>84450011
I do enjoy Godland. I haven't gone back to it since TF/Joe got into full swing so I am not sure how well it holds up.
Casey's work is very hit and miss that way.
>>84450037
>Casey's work is very hit and miss that way.
I thought it was all miss until I checked out Captain Victory
>>84449944
Plus it doesn't even natter because DC never actually fulfilled any of the contractual obligation to Siegel and Shuster anyways, so the whole "they got paid" rhetoric is bunk
>>84450265
They those old contracts got overturned in that 70's I think. Neal Adams and a bunch of other pros made a big public stink about it and got media attention which led to them getting credit and a pension from DC
I'm interested on the New Gods.
What should I read?
>>84451227
It's a pittance to what they should have got and Shuster's ailing health and both their ages played a factor in taking a paltry deal
>>84451307
New Gods # 1
