Just finished this. What went so horribly horribly wrong?
>>84358510
1) Zoom was a much less interesting villain than Reverse Flash.
2) Writers wrote themselves into a corner and had to use time remnants to fix it.
All in all still not a bad show in my opinion, probably 6/10 (compared to the first season which I'd rate 7.5/10).
>>84358510
Rehashing season 1, wasting Jay Garrick, and making everyone drop 50 IQ points?
>>84358510
They shouldn't have done the similar twist with "Jay" (Hunter) being the main villain all along. They should never have tried to flesh Zoom out as a character. He was fine as just a force of nature or demon. It made his "ultimate goal" of destroying the multiverse stupid.
Also there should have been more Rogues, but that couldn't have been helped because of Legends of Tomorrow. We should have gotten Mirror Master and lastly, we should have gotten more of Reverse Flash (Matt Letscher's Eobard Thawne) though that's probably going to be rectified during Season 3 if they are using Flashpoint to start the Season.
>>84358510
>attempt to recreate the dynamics of season one with another evil speedster mentor, but Zoom's actor was terrible and they did nothing to make it feel organic
>Zoom himself did pretty much nothing and has a paper thin motivation to begin with
>set up for LoT took up a decent amount of time
>Patty's actress left the sinking ship
>Barry himself was still portrayed as a moron when it came to his powers, "learning" stuff he literally knew in season 1
>taking his dad out of jail kills a really heartfelt and tragic subplot, yet they did nothing with him once he actually got out so it was pointless
>Wally's characterization was pretty weak overall and on top of that he's literally a secret crackbaby son which is as soap opera as you can get
>Harry, despite being played by Cavanaugh, wasn't very interesting and he's just doing an angry whisper in almost every scene
I mean, it's not on Arrow's level yet, but goddamn are they trying. Personally I'm gonna drop it if the first couple eps of season 3 don't show promise. Flashpoint isn't filling me with hope to be honest.
EXPECTO PATRONUM
People always go on and on about shows with a continuing story instead of single episode stories, but it was so much more interesting when Flash fought different metas each week instead of trying and failing to stop Zoom again and again.
>>84358690
Agreed. I didn't care about how long the Zoom plot dragged. They were better at balancing the big bad and the metas/ Rogues in Season 1. I enjoyed both that season. In Season 2 I much preferred the metas/ Rogue episodes (though were only two episodes that really focused on the Rogues).
It will never match the first season hype.
This lacked all emotion. They tried so hard and it was just non-stop cringe. Especially the b-plot.
It was fine. 7/10.
/co/ exaggerates its flaws, really.
I thought the show would be more tolerable if the CGI wasn't absolute shit
Iris dropping her whole "lol barry u nerd loser lol i luv u but ur such a nerd lol" thing from the first few episodes is a good sign the writers actually care what the fans think and are likely to take criticism into consideration, right?
I'd take that as a good sign for season 3. But then, I just thought season 2 was "not as good as season 1," not bad by any stretch.
>>84358510
zoom didn't get enough time for character development. probably too evil and too OP, but the writers don't know how to handle it properly. but it's still a decent show that doesn't impede you to watch S3. just please, no more speedster big bad.except if it's letscher's thawne
>>84360014
After "no more speedster big bad" can we add "for a season or two?" I don't NEVER want another speedster villain. Hell, I want Reverse Flash again eventually, but I'd really like something way out there for the next season.What if Barry gets back from the past and the Rogues have taken over Central City in what's basically a ripoff of Batman: No Man's Land?
>>84360079>Let's ripoff Batman some more
No.
>you knew her doppelganger
>we didn't just know her, we loved her
>>84358510
It had the misfortune of being a second season of American broadcast television. I can't think of one show where season 2 was better than the first.
>>84360162
Agents of Shield
>>84360102
>no speedster villain ever again
>season 10
>show has improved drastically but they're running on dry
>"What if we have another speedster villain?"
>"We can't! A decade ago, an anonymous poster on a Vietnamese calligraphy forum said not to!"
>>84360140
Yeah, that was awkward. Pretty sure they only barely knew her.
>>84360162
Arrow. Season 1 was mediocre, season 2 was decent, then from 3 onward it went down the shitter.
>>84360173
>>84360234
Do their first seasons even count as television? It might just be a massive bad dream we all shared.
So, overall, what do you all think of Cisco?
>>84360162
Gotham? Fish watered down, hugo strange, azrael, batshota and whatnot.
>>84360388
He's great. Probably the biggest character progression aside from Barry himself.
Looking forward to full Vibe.
>>84360181
You're clearly not reading the spoiler text. I'm not saying no more speedster villains.
>>84360604
Ohhh, yeah, I have a dark theme and didn't see there was spoiler text.
Anyway, I'm just trying to think how world-breaking this Flashpoint can be. It's not like we can have Wonder Woman and Aquaman at war as a result, or Thomas Wayne as Batman.
>>84360818
The cast Superman for Supergirl, John's got the Embargo lifted
>>84360818
I like the idea of the Rogues being (one of) the big baddies for season 3, but pleaseArrow has ripped enough from Batman.
>>84360940
No, he didn't.
"Supergirl" always had the clearance to use Superman. CBS just didn't want to do because they thought he'd steal the spotlight just by being there, while the CW has no such concerns.
What the fuck he goes back in time and saves his mom?! what the fuck was the point of season one?! Although, I suppose this gets reversed since they still haven't explained the Barry that stopped Barry from saving his mom. It just feels incredibly forced. Why are all the CW shows utter shit?
>>84361602
People decide things and then later change their minds. There are problems with season 2. The mere fact that Barry decided in a moment of desperation to save his mother is not one of them, and could lead to some interesting things.
>>84360345
It'll never be this good again!
>>84360818
Grant Gustin has already said that "Flashpoint" won't be the same as the comics/movie. I suspect that it will involve some generic catastrophe instead of a superhero war.
>>84362679
Yeah, but I want major status quo changes or what's the point?
Obviously it wont' be the same as the comics/movie. It can't. But it can be more than an earthquake.
My guess is the beaten-up Reverse Flash who failed to kill Barry's mother doesn't possess Wells, and Eddie doesn't shoot himself. So we get Eobard, the real Earth One wells, and Eddie all in season 3.
Even if he is a speedster, I feel like this could be totally different than seasons 1/2 because he's not close to Barry, and Barry doesn't trust him at all. Might be closer to the comics. A few singles, a few two-parters, a couple longer arcs, and maybe one big one a the end, without a need to drag out one long story the whole time beyond maybe some ongoing side plots like Cisco's development into Vibe.
Who is the fastest Flash btw?
I'm voting for Barry
/co/ tries to hate the flash
>Season 1
Eobard Thawne
>Season 2
E2 Harrison Wells
>Season 3
Pre-Eobard E1 Harrison Wells
>Season 4
????
Is he the best actor currently on television? He's literally played 3 characters so far.
>>84360162
Seinfeld!
The problem is simple:
They tried to go too big with their threat and their story, and it collapsed in itself when it became clear that didn't have the resources -- the money, writing/directing talent, the ACTING talent, the time, even the permission -- to handle it.
Zoom was a mistake as soon as they went all-in with "Zoom is this guy named Hunter Zolomon." It's so stupid because it's clear that that Zoom was *intended* to be Edward Clariss. It's clear in "Trajectory", clear in everything up to the second half of the season. I mean, hell, even the twist is clear -- rather than the two of them being doppelgangers, they'd just be twins of some sort, and rather than being the comic books' Zoom (as one would expect), he'd be the comic books' Rival. Something simple like that.
I imagine the only reason they didn't go with it is that it wasn't "big" enough, wasn't "epic" enough...which is stupid, given how relatively non-epic the end of the first season was and given how fantastic it was.
The need to go "BIGGER" and "BOLDER" is one of the many reasons Arrow is now awful. Being unable to craft compelling drama through genuine, deep characterizations of heroes and villains -- that is how you lose quality and audience interest.
>>84364091
Wellsobard.
>>84358510
>You wouldn't believe me if I told you
>Tells you a pretty simple story that wasn't worth the hype at all
I'm still mad, also
>You can't lock up the darkness
>We never find out what the darkness is
>>84358510
They way, WAY over did it on the time travel
>>84360102
You're thinking of Arrow
>>84364091
>>84367199
I'm pretty sure Barry is one of the slowest speedsters. Think about how he's beaten the other speedsters:
1) He captured RF by bringing Arrow and Firestorm; he'd already been shown to be unable to defeat RF alone.
2) He was about to be killed by RF until Eddie shot himself.
3) He continually got wrecked by Zoom until he summoned Time Wraiths to eat him.
4) Trajectory was faster until she disintegrated.
5) We don't know about the real Jay Garrick, although Zoom defeated him.
Barry wins by being clever and having friends.
>>84358510
Zoom pretending to be Jay Garrick was really gimmick and forced.
>>84367452
>I'm pretty sure Barry is one of the slowest speedsters
Barry was faster than Zoom with the tachyon enhancement for a moment but after he lost his powers the writers forgot that.
>>84367562
Yeah true
He was also faster than RF in the Thawne origin story episode but that was a younger Thawne so I guess we can't be sure there.
>>84358510
I never felt connection with the characters up until like last 3 episodes which I found amazing.
Earth 2 was also shit and the ultimate "Barry goes full retarded" arc.
I rate it 6/10 overall, at least it was watchable
>>84358510
>What went so horribly horribly wrong?
Not enough Felicity.
