>Can someone please kill me now? I'm two issues in, and even though I'm kinda figuring a few things out here & there, I'm getting no concrete evidence to back it up. I got that there was a war that good lost, and evil won. Though they never clearly state that it's between the New Gods & Apokolips, or the Gods as a whole & some unknown force. Any surviving Gods, good or evil, fell to Earth. I'm assuming devoid of physical form, though again, they never clearly say. I'm not even sure we're on OUR Earth half the time, since characters are popping up I've never heard of. If that's the case, why won't they say so? Turpin's is Darkseid, but doesn't know it. He knew where the children were, now he doesn't. "Christ-on-a-Stick"!! Time bullets. Kraken is Granny. The Reverend is Granny. Batman's captured. And Barry Allen returns. WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING?????? Ok maybe issue #3 will clear things up more, and relieve this super headache I'm getting.
This guys review of Final Crisis is golden.
http://leagueofcomicgeeks.com/profile/n3rdog/reviews/248518/final-crisis-3
>We open to Frankenstein, and an armed squad with the word S.H.A.D.E. on their vests...(ok, sure. Why not.)...trying to capture the Question who's found a dead guy. Who is he? I have know idea. Who killed him, and why? Don't know. And in all honesty, I don't think I ever will. "Know Evil" is written in blood, with a digitized finger looking like it was what put it there. Oookkaaay? Montoya runs across a crowd who found the dying body of.... WHO IS THAT??? The dying chick's saying something... IN GERMAN???? Ok, I didn't think I'd need my Google Translation App to read this. Montoya's taken into custody by S.H.A.D.E. WELL, WHO ARE THEY???
JESUS CHRIST. It feels like I'm watching one of those Marvel reviews for Multiversity 1.
>>77698815
>>77698827
Really? They have a hard time following FC?
>So we go to Metropolis, where Lois is all fucked up!!! The only one "this" fucked up! Ok. And the Monitor stalker lady appears,and offers Clark one chance to save her, but it requires leaving Earth. And with Gods getting murdered, Hal Jordan being arrested, Batman missing, and life on the planet getting more & more fucked, Superman leaves. Of course, he does. Because in his mind, the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many. Of course, he leaves.
It would not surprise me if he was a fan of the unbeatable squirrel girl.
I don't even know why it rustled me so much.
>I got my pen and paper out.
>Plot holes
>>77698915
What a dumb asshole.
>>77698815
>WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING?????? Ok maybe issue #3 will clear things up more, and relieve this super headache I'm getting.
Some people just aren't prepared for the Hypercrisis
>>77698915
>only read one issue
>WHY HAVEN'T THEY EXPLAINED LITERALLY EVERYTHING WAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>>77698915
HOW CAN ONE PERSON BE THIS AMAZING RETARDED
>>77699077
>>77699039
>>77699002
>>77698973
Part 2.
The issue was rated 2/5.
>>77698827
>one of those Marvel reviews for Multiversity 1.
I'd hate to ask for an example.
>>77699168
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3yK-wFVOaE
It's my pleasure.
I doubt it's yours.
he's right though
>>77699226
No he's actually retarded.
>>77699145
>>77699145
>admits that he doesn't expect everything to be answered immediately
>everything he has a problem with is explained later in the series
I can't imagine what was happening here on /co/ when the series was still coming out and you didn't know how it was going to be explained in the story.
>>77699226
Literally everything he's bitching about is explained in the book later on. He's complaining about plot holes after only reading TWO ISSUES.
>>77699145
So he doesn't know what a plothole is.
>>77699198
>>77699168
Holy shit I'm rewatching it. The bit where they insult Flash gets me everytime. Triggered.
Triggered.
Triggered.
>>77699198
>intro
>HEY EVERYBODY
>improv afterwards
I hate it when reviewers do that. There's literally nothing wrong with taking notes and compiling your thoughts together.
Though now I wonder if they reviewed any of the later entries in the series.
>>77699198
I ain't watching that shit.
>>77699245
Really? Was Kamandi explained? I don't quite remember it was.
>>77699198
>Grant Morrison is hurting comics by making these books.
What faggots. All three of them.
Their shirts are shit too.
>>77698815
stupid people who don't know to google shit when they need to learn something are stupid what a surprise
>>77699329
I don't know what you mean "explained." His presence in Final Crisis is effectively a reboot/reintroduction of the character. He goes off with the tigermen following Tawny in the last (?) issue to resettle the destroyed Earth-51.
I think it's the "same" Kamandi in Multiversity that discovers the empty tomb of Darkseid, the "great disaster" of the past being the lead-in to Final Crisis.
>>77699198
So Grant Morrison is hurting the industry by making cerebral books?
What have they given a good score?
>>77699428
Yeah but he has no purpose in the story other than to be reintroduced, right?
I read Final Crisis when it came out so I may be remembering incorrectly but he does nothing of value other than appearing, right?
>>77699198
This shit is maddening. They're angry that it's different and incomprehensible, but they actually DO understand it, but the fact that they have to TRY for a split second to understand it just breaks their spirit so they get angry and dismissive.
>>77699473
Correct. He is not an important player in the narrative at all.
>>77699198
Wonder what they think of it now that it's all out.
>>77699679
I checked their YT for any other reviews of Multiversity, and it came up with nothing but the first issue.
>>77698815
>Reverend is Granny
Glorious Godfrey.
triggered
It seems that either knowing nothing about the DC universe or knowing everything about the DC universe are the best ways to approach Final Crisis/Multiversity.
So many complaint about the two Ive read complain that 'who are these characters? should i know who they are??' where my reaction was just 'ok so theyre space police, theyre a cult of some kind'
I dont think Final Crisis is a masterpiece by any means, but I think its trying something interesting that doesnt quite get the credit it deserves.
>>77699198
Why these guys aren't facing the non stop rage of /co/?
>>77700114
We get angry at everything, we only have so much to go around in a day.
To be fair to the guy Final Crisis is confusing as shit. somewhat intentionally so.
Great story though
>>77700020
>Seven Soldiers - Mister Miracle is uneven and, at the time, seemingly pointless compared to the other minis.
>Final Crisis - Superman Beyond, Batman tie-ins, and Submit are unarguably necessary and should have been incorporated into the Final Crisis series proper.
>Multiversity - "Series of #1's" leaves some of the ideas feeling a little half-baked
Seven Soldiers, Final Crisis and Multiversity are somehow simultaneously overwhelming and insufficient. I don't know if it's editorial, Grant getting too ambitious/not planning well enough, or what, but there always seem to be some serious structural issues once all is said and done. Final Crisis is the worst offender by far. SS and Multiveristy are pretty stellar overall.
Also, I read Multiversity before either of the others. I loved it, and it gave me some serious "oh wow" moments in Final Crisis.
>>77698815
Fuck off with your shilling shitty blogs.
>>77700287
>Final Crisis - Superman Beyond, Batman tie-ins, and Submit are unarguably necessary and should have been incorporated into the Final Crisis series proper.
They're collected in the softcover version of the event that I bought.
>>77700287
Makes sense, FC is a big line wide event and the other two are basically vanity projects
also Morrison probably intended others to pick up the baton from 7S and Multiversity so he intentionally left stuff open
>>77699198
Why are comics fans so effeminate?
>>77700287
I think that if Morrison had his way he'd be the head of a small cult of devote, psychedelic writers and artists that all existed to only write volumes and volumes of Hypercrisis-related stories.
But he's not, it's just him and DC can't/won't devote enough resources to help him achieve his grand vision. The ideas are really interesting, but it just seems like we're only able to see a small part of the image Morrison is really trying to paint.
>>77700343
It's not about the collection as much as the narrative/pace resulting from having two, two-part issues taking place "separately" from the main event, but otherwise completely inextricable.
>>77700355
>Line-wide event
And honestly, when you put it that way, I have less of a problem with a Superman two parter and a Batman two parter sitting in the middle of the event.
It is confusing though, especially for people who know NOTHING of the DC universe. New Gods, Kamandi out of nowhere, all the Monitor squabble, Superman travels to limbo, Superman 4D suddenly battles the great evil that plagues us all, a recollection of Batman memories which are feeding a parademon (Was that what it was? I forget).
Like it or not, as overprotective as you can get, Final Crisis IS confusing.
>>77700575
>a recollection of Batman memories which are feeding a parademon (Was that what it was? I forget).
They were basically trying to use Batman's mind as the template to create an army of perfect soldiers, only for it to backfire spectacularly.
>>77700575
>Like it or not, as overprotective as you can get, Final Crisis IS confusing.
Final Crisis is definitely something that would've frustrated the hell out of me had I read it in a vacuum without seeing any commentary or discussion of it here on /co/ or elsewhere (by people who actually knew their shit).
Ultimately, you have to sit down and take another look not just at the artwork and writing itself, but also how everything is connected in terms of where arcs and individual perspectives begin and end, how panels are arranged, things like that.
>>77699198
>All those Marvel comics in the background
Maybe I'm just paranoid
>>77700575
>>77700575
Guy, do you think it was any different for me when I picked up CoIE after watching Superfirends reruns at 8 and being a JL/TT fan at 13?
>not distinctly remembering the plight of The Lump
>not readin Mister Miracle mini where a version of the same thing happens to Omega and Shiloh Norman
>>77700575
>It is confusing though, especially for people who know NOTHING of the DC universe
Final Crisis isn't for them and never was. It would be the same as reading the last chapter of a book and complaining you have no idea what's going on
>>77700691
I read it when I was pretty new to the DCU and wasn't THAT ost.
>These are evil gods who want to destroy the world and have a presence on both the material and metaphysical layers of the universe, which is fucking with all kinds of shit
>These guys are space cops, one of them is secretly one of those evil gods which is why they can't do shit
>Batman is a hardcore motherfucker who is prepared for everything
>Now all the heroes team up to punch the incarnation(s) of evil in their fat fucking faces
Really the only things that lost me were the Kamandi connections, how the Flashes tied into everything, and a lot of the Multiversal implications of Superman Beyond.
>>77699245
Final Crisis, batman & robin and return of bruce wayne were amazing, the annotations and dissection of the comic page by page was a great experience, really dense threads, searching for references, trying to figure out what those that random shape in the background means, Superman 3d. etc,
>>77700691
>>77700677
>>77700631
I am in no way justifying the people that say it's bad for not understanding it but WE must understand that it is reasonable for some to simply not understand it fully and not be able to properly enjoy it. People CAN not understand it.
I mean, really, did any of you (if you read it as it came out) know who the hell Sonny Sumo was? I remember being in a loop and having to google him only to find he was a one-off character from one arc back in the 70s.
Also, yeah, I forgot the Lump. I am really sorry about that.
>>77700812
>I mean, really, did any of you (if you read it as it came out) know who the hell Sonny Sumo was?
/co/ told me. /co/ will never be as hype as when the Batrun and FC were coming out month-to-month. Dem red hair Jason outrage threads were a thing to behold.
>>77700575
>Like it or not, as overprotective as you can get, Final Crisis IS confusing.
Only if you are really dumb. It's just a comic, there's nothing complex about it. The problem is that most capereaders only like to read straightforward action or comedy, Morrison isn't doing something that experimental or dense, but you guys are so lazy and so used to Johns, Bendis, millar or loeb that any change in narrative it's taken as something weird.
Morrison is fast food, he may be a more "home made" version of fast food, and not burger king as most writters but there's nothing confusing about his capework, Many of you seems to want saturday morning cartoons in comic form.
Please don't call me dumb but I never got why Turpin went to see Darkseid, found the kids but then he's out and about again and gets found by Reverend Good to be taken to Darkseid's facility.
Can someone explain that? Did they set him free with Darkseid already inside him to let him come back to them again?
>>77701044
>Can someone explain that? Did they set him free with Darkseid already inside him to let him come back to them again?
That's the impression I got too. Let him stew in the despair for a bit before they proceed.
>>77700927
>Many of you seems to want saturday morning cartoons in comic form.
But that would be an improvement
>>77700114
WAIT IS THAT A FEM-SONIC?
>>77699198
Seriously fuck these guys for saying that the book is bad because it's not easily accessible. It's stupid fucks like these that prevent cool things like Dial H or Metal Men from happening
I'm sorry to do this to you, /co/...
http://channelawesome.com/comic-book-issues-batman-inc-1-2/
>>77703810
>The Last Angry Geek
Is this guy better or worse than Linkara? That's all I need to know.
>>77703862
Worse.
>>77703883
Well I'm not looking at that video then
>>77699198
Is there a way to watch this without giving them any views?
>>77699198
These people should not be allowed to read comics.
Restrict them to the weeb shit.
>>77698827
>I have know idea
Do people really get paid to write such drivel?
>>77699263
Not only that, but he's complaining that the comic book doesn't explain everything through word balloons and doesn't like the fact that sometimes they pictures are telling the story.
SOMEONE DISCUSS WITH ME ON HOW "What The Butler Saw" IS THE GOAT BATMAN STORY
>>77706922
Nothing to discuss, it simply is.
>>77699198
>Are these text messages?
>I think that's their way of showing you his thought bubbles
Are these guys retarded? Is the concept of a thought box that complex that they can't wrap their heads around it?
>>77706928
THANK YOU
I'm actually a little annoyed by this.
Like, at least read some of the supplementary material.
>>77703150
Maybe.
>>77700114
Because while that person's opinions are awful, I don't think he's an SJW. There's nothing wrong with having shitty opinions as long as those opinions don't push an agenda that seeks the cultural genocide of all straight white men.
>>77700575
Final Crisis was the first comic book I ever read, It's not that hard to understand.
>>77709344
This.
I don't think people want to put in the effort to understand Morrison's works. There's some very real symbolism, deep, layered storytelling, non-linear storytelling, with very real themes in there as well. His storytelling is very meta, very post-modern, and people don't like that. People want traditional, shallow superhero stories.
>>77700927
Ehh I wouldn't say he's fast food. Maybe like fast casual like 5 Guys or Chipotle.
>>77703431
It's disappointing to look into the true face of your fellow comic book fan. Faggotron sperglords like them are the reason I make my trips to the LCS as brief as possible. At least I have you guys here in /co/ to talk to
>>77709498
I can't believe that people like think that we are the cancer killing comic books. I'm not the one buying 1:100 Variants and pre-ordering those Rap Album Variants.
>>77709344
You can fully get once you understand that it's a story being told in a kind of in media res. You aren't supposed to get the whole picture from the first issue and you also aren't supposed to be clear about what "questions" you are supposed to be asking yourself from the first look.
You can deduce a lot of Morrison's stories through character stereotypes, since he likes to treat characters as their "symbolic" ideal, and not as characters (at least the bigger legacy characters).
Personally, I don't like Final Crisis due to mostly the character writing. And I digg what Morrison is trying to do with wanting to create a kind of unified "DC Mythology" or "lore", but (and this may be because I'm a weeb) I don't really see the point in it. The original Crisis on Infite Earth's objective was to fix "continuity", and it just seems to be retreading the same thing over and over just for the sake of being meta and elevating the already mythological characters into full blown Gods, both in their world and our own. But again, I mostly read /a/ stuff so the whole point of having a unified canon for the multiverse just seems needless to me.
>>77710091
Thing is, you need the mythos and lore. American comics are long running and therefore require recurring ideas in them. DC Heroes are like the demigods of ancient Greece in a sense that they need a whole lore around them so that many people can create stories with them.
In contrast, a manga ends after its story is told. Some mangas tend to forget which story they want to tell and drag on (see most Shonen in Shonen Jump) but that's still its principle: Tell a story and its done. For American comics, there is no definite story to tell, just infinite possibilites created using the established lore, which is why we need events like Final Crisis to create this lore.
>>77710222
But why not just tell a story?
Why the need to fit everything into a neat little "canon"?
It's not like the characters you are reading about are even close to the characters the original writers came up with. Hell, they aren't even like the more prominent writers wrote them.
You can't tell me Millar's Joker is anything like Miller's or Morrison's or even Moore's, so why even pretent they are the same person, or an other universe version of that person?
It's not like this mythos matters, you are just trying to write gospel and dogma for something that isn't a religion (at least not for us, maybe for Morrison it is).
>>77710426
>You can't tell me Millar's Joker is anything like Miller's or Morrison's or even Moore's, so why even pretent they are the same person, or an other universe version of that person?
Canon is a restriction, and restriction breeds innovation. Moore couldn't use Charlton heroes, so we got Watchmen.
Somebody at some point notices all of the different versions of the Joker or Brainiac or Hawkman running around, and it needs to be explained with hokey comic science. But cool ideas emerge in the process.
Like the Joker is so fucking crazy he can rebuild his persona to suit the story. Distinct for the story/era/writer, but technically the same character across depictions. Morrison taking this to eleven to canonize every era of Batman is...really, really cool if you're a Batman fan.
Or all the crazy Brainiac stand-ins you've had for 20 years are really just the probes of Brainiac Prime. And then because of that idea, different writers can pile on and expand the idea to the multiversal Brainiac.
If Captain Marvel copyright shit doesn't go down with the English publications, Marvelman doesn't get to be around to be revived years later to usher in superhero deconstruction.
>>77710426
>why not just tell a story?
Are you seriously asking why not all of sequential art follows the same format?
I don't know man, why don't Sunday funnies just tell a story too?
>>77710841
I mean with Morrison's obsession with building this Multiverse and it's mythos.
Fuck, I already have The History of the DC Universe right next to me as I type this, but he seems to just like conecting more dots in this "web" of the multiverse. And again, I get it and think it's cool, but why does he need this canon?
I guess >>77710749 could be an explanation, he does seem interested in te concept of "adding to the myth instead of subtracting from it", like more canon universe reset like the original Crisis on Infinite Earths and the whole "everything did happen and not happen at the same time due to the multiverse, hypertime and the Speed Force" seems to add instead of subtract.
>>77711022
> but why does he need this canon?
because expanding on an established universe is really fucking cool. There doesn't need to be a reason.
You seem like a manga fan to me, who prefers the style of story where there is a beginning, middle and end and that's it, no more story.
Now there is nothing wrong with that, except the fact that you haven't realized that comics and manga are completely different mediums.
All I've got from your posts is that you are afraid of change, which is not surprising considering where we are.
> adding to the myth instead of subtracting from it
> could be an explanation
> could be
Mate, you really don't get morrison do you? That's his whole fucking thing. If you need some random anon to explain this stuff to you, perhaps you should stick to the same, safe, unchanging plebshit that marvel pumps out.
>>77709213
I hope I never get this paranoid.
>>77711022
Have you read Morrison's Animal Man? Ignoring that one part where he inserts himself, there is an amazing one, still one of my favourites in all of comics, where the Psycho Pirate remembers the old way things were and the characters that existed and starts making them appear.
Now that's cool. You can only do that if you take reboots and all these executive decisions as something bigger that encompasses everything, even us.They're not just editorial mandates to simplify the canon, they're the restructuring of a possibly real universe.
Maybe the executives acted out that way because a monitor thought that's how it should be, who knows? We are all part of the Hypercrisis.
If you don't think that's cool get the fuck out of here.
>>77711022
you need to lurk hypercrisis threads for a while, expand your understanding.
You're sounding too happy in your complacency and it's making you negative toward different ideas.
>>77699198
So, Grant Morrison is dangerous to comics, but not these idiots who shit on a comic that dares not to hold the reader's hand are totally helping the industry?
>>77710222
>Some mangas tend to forget which story they want to tell and drag on
Like Naruto?
>>77712159
Pretty much most Shonen stuff do this, but yeah: Naruto is a fucking mess.
>>77710426
Several writers use the long convoluted histories of these characters in their stories. Morrison's Batman run is based on the huge variety of Batman throughout the years. King uses bits and pieces of canon and brings them together to strengthen the history and perceived depth of the characters. Hell Spencer uses the long and convoluted history to make jokes and bring up long forgotten z-listers
>>77699198
>there are 52 earths
>is that a coincidence, does that have anything to do with the New 52?
NO IT'S THE GODDAMN POINT YOU-
