So this really seemed to upset people.
That Batman stopped short of killing Superman when he asked Bats to save Martha.
They complain that the motivation is " Der my mum's name is yur mums name no kill!"
Am i the only one who took it as the surprise from hearing his mother's name come out of this alien's mouth shocking him into stopping short of murder? Something he didn't want to do in the first place?
And then it was further defused when Lois showed up and started talking all this shit that humanized Superman.
That's how i saw it anyway
The idea was that Batman viewed Superman as an alien monster, and in that moment he realized Superman is a normal person who loves his mother and that she was in danger, a situation that Batman alson identified with.
It was just really really poorly directed. Plus Batman's transition is excessively abrupt.
Also, I'll have to call bullshit on him not wanting to kill Superman deep down. He wanted it. He's a certified murderer in the Snyderverse.
>>84128337
Ah i'm not sure he wanted it. I think it was a hard choice but once he made his mind up he got ready to do it right
>>84128337
There's that, but it's also the fact that with Superman at his mercy and about to be killed, Supes is begging for his MOTHER'S life rather than his own.
I think it's a really great way to break Batman's preconceived notions and assumptions about Superman's fundamental character, but yeah the whole "WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAAAAAME" bit is pretty silly and breaks a lot of the tension in the moment.
>Also, I'll have to call bullshit on him not wanting to kill Superman deep down. He wanted it. He's a certified murderer in the Snyderverse.
As you say, Batman assumed he was alien and operating on alien morality that did not take into account the value of human life. Assuming that this alien morality makes a threat that is unable to be reasoned with, the only way to end that threat is to put it down through force. At the end of the movie, Bruce comes to see Superman (and really the other "metas" he finds through Lex's files and Wondy's help) as allies rather than threats to stopped.
>>84128434
He was enjoying it all the way through. He was even savoring the moment by ragdolling Superman and slashing his cheek first.
>>84128224
The only thing that scene made me think about was the fact that their mom's did share a first name. Like, pretty crazy stuff, bro, who would've thought that the two biggest heroes mothers share a first name. Pretty small world, huh?
>>84128497
BvS basically plays Batman as a foil to Lex, mirroring Lex's own obsession with destroying Superman and callous disregard for anyone else that comes in between him and that goal.
>>84128527
Travel back to 1939 and tell them not to make their mothers have the same name.
>>84128476
That doesn't mean he's not a murderer. He needlessly kills people throughout the movie, in cruel ways, even.
I tried to do a head count of how many people he directly kills, lost interest after I tallied 15 men and counting.
>>84128224
>Am i the only one who took it as the surprise from hearing his mother's name come out of this alien's mouth shocking him into stopping short of murder?
Nah, there are plenty of other Potatoes in America.
>>84128547
They didn't, Superman's mother was originally named "Sarah Kent". They changed it later.
Jonathan was also originally named "Eben".
>>84128549
Are you talking about Batman or Superman here?
Because yeah, Batman kills people that's one of the elements of his character in the movie, that he does not give a shit about the lives of the criminals he fights anymore. Remember that line about comparing them to "weeds"? He's so jaded about his mission to try and protect Gotham that it's shifted from that mission itself to "punish criminals" because he's convinced that nothing else he does has any positive effect on the world around him.
>>84128575
I guess it's just more fun to assume it was shitty writing than it is to spend two seconds thinking about it...
>>84128224
>Something he didn't want to do in the first place?
Batman spent the whole movie hellbent on killing Superman for no good reason.
>>84128607
Yet still hasn't killed his most murderous and pervasively criminal rogues.
How convenient.
I suppose this only applies to nameless mooks and not his "special playmates".
>>84128650
>mfw Batman kills everyone BUT the Joker.
>>84128497
>>84128529
>>84128224
It felt forced and unnatural. Here's this armored psycho totally enjoying beating superman to death suddenly stopped by a word. did he think aliens didn't have moms? It highlights the uncomfortable fact that the Snyder batman is mentally unwell even by batman standards and is in no way heroic.
He was gung ho on killing this guy on a suspicion, without even sitting down and hearing his side of the story, and the sudden realization that the alien has a mom stops him.
Did he think all those criminals he killed didn't have moms? I can't see any superhero not trying to lock up batman for being crazy.
>>84128607
They tried to justify it, while also trying to excuse it, and it was rather poor, much like everything else.
>>84128650
yeah turns out batman is crazy
who knew lol
>>84128224
>It never crossed Batman's mind that Superman could have a mother
>the world's greatest detective didnt do any research on Superman at all, in the slightest
>devoted years of his life to "thinking" about killing Superman and then it changes on a whim
Yeah no. This is shit writing.
Why the fuck would Clark say "Martha" instead of "my mom"?
Also, why the fuck should it matter what his mom's name is? If Darkseid tells Batman that his mom's name is Marthaseid, is Bats going to let him go?
>>84128630
It's not that things aren't "explained" in Snyder films, it's that the explanations are incredibly fucking stupid.
That was such a stupid fight. Superman could have literally ended the battle anytime he wanted and forced Batman to listen.
>>84128650
>lol why doesn't he just kill the Joker
>why don't we just kill the single most popular villain Batman's Rogues Gallery
Yeah congratufuckinglations, here's a cookie for pointing out something that we've been complaining about in the comics for years.
>>84128689
Depends, has Batman been raped by this point?
>>84128683
>>84128689
>>84128709
All this. All fucking this.
Who wants to bet Joker is still alive because he asked Batman to save Jonathan?
>>84128720
Of course. But as always in these fight superman forgets that he has any ability beyond strongness
>>84128671
I agree.
The fact one second before Batman was shit-talking Superman's parents doesn't help the case.
>>84128735
It's worth an extra complaint when it's no longer "No-Kill" Batman and is instead Punisherbats.
>>84128224
It's so fucking dumb though. Just having Batman be able to murder Superman in like 4 minutes is so fucking terrible from a plot perspective that to have him stop literally as he's about to deliver the killing blow for any reason is about 35 times as terrible. You want Batman and Superman to fight? Whatever, I think that's dumb but I get that many Superhero team ups start with a fight. You want Batman out to stop Superman with murderous intent, whatever, I think that's dumb but I didn't write the film and it's not irredeemable. But to have it get to that point and end on that fucking note is just everything bad about that idea combined into the worst scene possible.
>>84128720
He tried to talk Batman down, and then got hit by Kryptonite gas and it all went to shit because at that point he was fighting for his life.
And also "ending a battle by force" is something that Batman sure as hell would've interpreted as a a threat necessary for lethal force and then we'd be in the same problem.
>>84128709
That's where we disagree.
>>84128587
Kek don't use Wikipedia it lies. Her original name was Mary Kent. Later redacted to Sarah then Molly then finally decided upon as Martha.
>>84128689
>Why the fuck would Clark say "Martha" instead of "my mom"?
That I can't excuse.
And it would've been so easy to have Superman instead ask Batman "save Martha Kent".
Makes Superman appear more selfless and gets the point across rather than his awkward attempt at guilt-tripping Batman.
>>84128763
>is just everything bad about that idea combined into the worst scene possible.
Snyder is a master at this.
>>84128774
I read it in a magazine, though.
You're wasting your time trying to educate /tv/ shitposters about storytelling.
>>84128683
What's interesting is Lois figured out just about everything on Clark with less resources than Bruce so she's already his superior.
Like seriously, Lois met Martha and everything. She went to the farm, she was at the graveyard, she went to that ship in the middle of nowhere. All this and she has none of Bruce's training, free time or luxury.
Of course the excuse could be that Bruce did not want to figure out these things and just wanted to focus on Superman as an enemy, but it still seems odd he wouldn't have some background check done to stumble upon the information for blackmail or a weakness or whatever.
>>84128792
Is this an American thing? Most people call their mothers by their first name when they are an adult, especially their adopted mother.
>>84128828
Yes, Americans don't call their parents by their first names.
>>84128828
I don't. Most people I know don't.
I guess Supes was trying to protect his identity still.
>>84128773
>he was fighting for his life.
He really wasn't. He'd recovered to the point where batman's punches didn't even make him blink.
But then when he sees him loading another shot what does he do? Throw something? Heat vision? Maybe even zig zag a little?
Nah. Let's do a straight line right down his sights.
Fucking stupid
>>84128434
"This may be the only worthwhile thing I ever do." Yeah, the guy was REAL conflicted about killing him. "Do you bleed? You will..." Reeeeaaal conflicted.
>>84128773
>He tried to talk Batman down, and then got hit by Kryptonite gas and it all went to shit because at that point he was fighting for his life.
Bullshit.
He escalated the fight by pushing Batman, throwing him through a fucking building and threatening his life.
It was stupid. Who'd guess the fucking Batman VS. Superman aspect of BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN would be the worst part of it.
>>84128773
>tries to explain the situation
>worlds greatest detective gasses him with death gas
Nolan batman was hardly a great detective but this was embarrassingly stupid.
I know a lot of people are upset Snyder missed the point of super's character but am I alone in thinking he did an even worse job with Batman?
>>84128434
>I think it was a hard choice but once he made his mind up he got ready to do it right
>>84128798
Oh man this scene, John just fucking disappears like a ghost. I wonder if he was screaming the whole time being flung around in the air while Clark listened or if he just closed his eyes and let the violence take him.
>>84128650
because he probably was already in prison
even in the news in the movie they say that his dark turn was a recent thing
>>84128224
it's not that they have the same name
it's the fact that he said MARTHA like his father did before dying, in that moment Batman sees himself as Joe Chill killing a guy that has done nothing wrong
This is why Snyder cock-gobblers have zero credibility on this board.
They will literally rationalize ANYTHING that Snyder puts to film, no matter how intellectually acrobatic they have to be in the attempt.
Nothing in the DCEU is allowed to be anything less than brilliantly inspired Capekino.
>>84128821
>Lois a better detective than Batman
>Lois more calculating and better at planning than Batman
Can Snyderfags at least admit this was bullshit?
>>84128798
No invincible son! You must not return to the car and get back in the blink of an eye!
What if someone sees you and thinks you're super?!
I will run into the storm because since i don't have powers no one will think i have powers!
Bam. Kent logic ftw
>>84128979
In this universe batman kills and Lois is a goddamn genius
Deal with it
>>84128224
Honestly, seeing all those explanations here surprises me, because to me that scene was just cringe worthy because there is absolutely NO WAY superman would have called her by her name at that moment giving batman a moment of doubt. No one says "I have to save Martha" they say "I have to save my mother" it just makes no god damn sense. It's like the writers gave up at that point.
This is why any dialogue and plot development that developed from this seems off, because it's just so incredibly forced
>>84128671
>without even sitting down and hearing his side of the story
maybe Superman should have tried talking normally the first time instead of crashing the batmobile and menacing Batman
also the entire Flash appereance, where Batman sees a guy he never knew just to discover later on that he is one of the metahumans from the vids, telling him that he was right about being suspicious and all
>>84129005
>This universe is going to completely fall apart at the seams the minute they start making more films that don't have Batman all up in them
Deal with it.
>>84129043
>also the entire Flash appereance, where Batman sees a guy he never knew just to discover later on that he is one of the metahumans from the vids
There is absolutely nothing connecting the man in red armor who appears in a portal in a dream to the speedy gonzales Batman sees buying milk.
>>84129052
um...ok...?
>>84129074
Batman never forgets a young dark haired lad with dick-sucking lips.
It's Cannon.
I thought the scene was supposed to be Batman suddenly realizing he was the same as the guy that killed his parents, a murderer, because Superman saying "Martha" mirrored the last words of Bruce's dad.
>>84129118
What will happen when his Rogues Gallery discovers his Safe Word?
>>84129074
except the face
>>84128979
Batman was completely obsessed with gaining the means to kill Superman, I'm not surprised he missed some clues obvious to someone looking in from thr other side.
>>84128529
how was it forced and unnatural? it was a perfect play on Batman's core tenants as a character.
And he didnt particularly enjoying killing anyone, it was a recent change, and his whole arc was learning from Superman that he has to be better then the killing, which is why he doesnt kill Luthor in the end.
>>84129145
>They all legally change their names to Martha
>Batman murders the notary in rage
>Only to learn his name was Thomas
>>84129145
it only works if innocent people say it
>>84128979
Ah I forgot to add the cherry on top, all that investigating Lois did? Before there was a Superman, she followed the leads of a nameless phantom influence and figured everything out to the point Clark had to show up to ask her to please stop. She wasn't even all that obsessed, just mildly interested.
Bruce had news stories upon news stories on Superman to start tracing a pattern of dates, names and places, his hunger for figuring out this thing and NOPE. Diddly.
>>84128763
none of what you said makes any sense.
>>84128976
try re-reading the OP, he never says its kino or anything, just that he doesnt get why people hate the scene. And basically anyone is able to say here is "WELL ITS BAD CAUSE ITS BAD OR ITS BAD CAUSE IT DOESNT FIT WITH WHAT I THINK BATMAN SHOULD BE!"
>>84128976
And things that are easy to explain if you look at them in the full context of the movie and not in a vacuum will forever be shouted as "plotholes" by people like you. What's your point?
>>84129174
Oh, well then.
As long as we are playing to Batman's core tenets and not having him ENJOY killing everyone.
>>84129145
I meam, as long as he's not attempting to murder them, there's nothing they could say to cause him to stop. Plus, his reasoning for going after Clark was different than that of going after normal criminals, since they break the law, Clark was simply too powerful to let live, in his mind.
>>84129174
>And he didnt particularly enjoying killing anyone
He has a Batmobile full of weapons and still thinks the best way to neutralize a car with enemies is to use another car with people inside as a battering ram, shattering their bones into dust, and crushing the other car with it.
Then later, AFTER his supposed "ephiphany", he still splatters a guy's brains on the wall with a box, caves a guy's skull into the floor and fatally stabs a man.
Batman didn't learn a damn thing.
>>84129231
>Clark was simply too powerful to let live, in his mind.
Sucks to be the Flash, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman and the rest, I guess.
>>84128224
Snyder's Batman is a murderer. Why the fuck would he even care? Its fucking stupid.
>>84129266
no one of them destroyed half of Metropolis after luring an alien invasion on the planet
>>84129246
BUT HE DIDN'T ENJOY IT!
I think it says in Buddhism that if you don't enjoy the act of killing, it doesn't count as killing.
Or something.
>>84129246
>killing criminals is bad
>>84129266
Ummm, that was the whole point of the Martha thing.
Yeah, I wouldn't have done it that way, but it was supposed to be the moment when Batman saw he was going overboard.
He's not hunting super people simply for being super anymore
>>84129305
So if tje SETI program attracts hostile aliens Batman will kill the scientists?
What if one of them has a mother/sister/girlfriend named Martha?
>>84129306
>I think it says in Buddhism that if you don't enjoy the act of killing, it doesn't count as killing.
I'm pretty sure that's not in the precepts. Like 108% sure at least. If it's an accident it's not as bad, but you're still going to have to make up for that little mistake.
>>84129326
>but it was supposed to be the moment when Batman saw he was going overboard.
Ostensibly that moment should be when a bunch of human being are lying in piles of their own charred innards around him, not when he's bruised up someone's Invincible Son.
>>84128224
>Something he didn't want to do in the first place?
Eh?
>>84129347
>>84129347
>>84129324
Get off 4chan, Frank.
>>84129374
Too true. Why the fuck didn't you direct this film bro?
>>84129374
Oh, for sure, I would have wanted him to not have killed anyone, with the Superman thing being the only time he went overboard.
Or, conversely, if he is killing people because he's given up hope, like in the movie we got, then it should have been something different than Superman just saying Martha and having Bruce see himself as a murderer.
>>84129326
Batman shouldn't have to go through an arc where he has to stop thinking people need to die because they're powerful. Baan should be a super hero.
>>84129533
Maybe, just maybe, your fandom has cause you to lower your expectations for the movies JUST a bit too much.
Just throwing that out there.
>>84128689
How did you know?
>>84128742
You mean thomas
>>84129472
Because I'd require a movie about caped crime-fighters to have a smidgeon offun[/spoiler
] in it somewhere.
>>84129170
>Batman was completely obsessed with gaining the means to kill Superman,
One of the most famous quotes about how to go about beating someone is "KNOW THY ENEMY".
>>84129596
Wait what language was this in originally?
Has the Martha meme really reached Asia?
>>84129566
Sort of I guess. I don't think BvS was good, but there were parts I definitely enjoyed. I hope the Ultimate Cut is just a bit better, because I can easily enjoy the movie without thinking it's good here.
Sadly :( I just want a good DC film :(
>>84129211
>Batman being able to straight up murder Superman in a short fight makes sense
>Batman and Superman fighting in an early interaction makes sense
>Batman coming at a person with murderous intent when he didn't kill the Joker who MURDERED ROBIN makes sense
Commit suicide or stay on /tv/, either works for me.
>>84128689
Because Batman was already shit-talking Superman's alien parents. If Superman had saved mom, Batman would probably say "Thanks for reminding me. I'll kill her next".
>>84128224
I think the amount of laughs and criticisms that scene is getting is fucking ridiculous. The only thing wrong with the scene is Cavill's line delivery, or maybe his dialogue would had needed some slight rewriting to make it just a bit more natural.
What comes to Batman's reaction, it was great. He was clearly torn and confused, and you could really see him processing the new info and coming to the conclusion that he won't kill Supes. And ok, maybe they were a bit too friendly from then on out, but that's about it.
Great scene, great movie. Why didn't they just show this in the theaters?! :/ (I know why, but still)
>>84130423
>and you could really see him processing the new info
The fact that it was new information is part of the problem.
>the movie isnt too smart for people
>they just need scenes like this one explicitly layed out and explained to them or else theyll call it bad writing and meme on it
>>84130744
>layed out
>>84130423
>ITT: The rest of us just don't have refined taste.
>>84128760
I don't get the complaint about cinematic Batman killing people.
Every film version of Batman for 40 years has been a murderer.
Fuck even cinematic Red Batman is a murderer.
>>84128798
>sacrifice yourself for your son's secret
>a year later everyone knows anyway
Americans don't refer to their parents by their first name.
>>84130974
>>sacrifice yourself for your son's secret
>>a year later everyone knows anyway
Whoa now, Clark wondered the earth as a hobo with no close friends or loved ones for a decade, but still got a reporter job with no credentials whatsoever later.
That ain't too bad.
>>84129246
The change came after Superman's death, not before.
>>84131042
He was a string.
>BvS shills are back
god fucking damnit
Why can't WB just let this movie die?
>>84131182
>It's literally impossible that anybody in the world enjoyed the movie because I don't like it.
>>84131182
They Snyderfags have been at this for 3 years, 14 days, 2 hours.
Enjoy the ride.
Batman didn't wanted to know more about Superman, ie: his origin, his life and so on. He just wanted to find a mean to kill him.
Batman didn't thought that there was some story about Superman or whatever that he needed to find out. He just thought that Superman was too powerful to let him live.
This explained why Batman didn't investigated Superman life. Superman was a constant and every new news only spelled problem.
Batman hadn't killed before. He changed after the Metropolis attack, because that made his feeling of powerlessness worse. It grew something that was already there to unbearable levels.
Batman felt powerless because he spend his whole life trying to change Gotham for the better to the point where he was already older than his father when he died and nothing came out of it. Only more pain and death, like with Robin. The criminals were still around and they would never keep coming.
So once Batman had decided to kill Superman in a weird need to end his own life, ie: suicide by Superman, his whole moral and code that hadn't gotten him nothing by that point didn't seemed to hold any value anymore. If he was already going to kill Superman, he might as well kill any thug in his path.
Batman throughout the whole movie is trying to live up to his father image and has this weird obsession with his mother. You can see that he's constantly saving women in the movie. Every instance of rescue is done to a female figure. There also the nightmares with his mom.
Superman didn't said "mom", because Batman had just shit-talked his parents while beating him up. Saying "mom" wouldn't change shit. That's probably why Superman said "Martha", because then it would look like that Superman was pleading him to save a random human woman. Maybe that could work on Batman, who's a "vigilante". It was Lois that came and explained that "Martha" was Superman's mom. Superman also knew Batman's identity, so he probably used that knowing what would be Bruce's reaction.
1/2.
>>84131518
>Batman didn't wanted to know more about Superman, ie: his origin, his life and so on. He just wanted to find a mean to kill him.
Know. Thy. Enemy.
>1/2
Fuck off.
>>84131518
Batman stopped because of how Superman said "Martha". His body down laid down next to Batman, him uttering "Martha" name right before dying. The whole scene reminded him of his own father. Batman watched his own father in Superman. That's why he was taken aback.
Batman only stopped killing after Superman sacrifice, not before. So that's why he killed in the thugs in the warehouse.
Said all that the scene was still stupid.
2/2
The crux of the scene should have been Clark showing fear for his mother's life and Bruce being forced to come to terms with the fact that this strange visitor from another world has a human mother.
Rather than having Supes' obtusely tell Batman that "THEY'RE GONNA KILL MARTHA", have Clark plead "They're going to kill my mom."
Boom- instant connection. Bruce is a man who is haunted by the death of his parents, he could never turn down that call to action. His motivation hinges on his assumption that Superman is a dangerous, all-too-powerful alien. So what happens when he finds out he's just a nice dude from Kansas?
Don't even frame it within the context of a DRAMATIC FINAL MOMENT, where BRUCE has the SPEAR and is about to KILL SUPERMAN. Have them chat throughout the course of the fight, with Supes consistently attempting to make diplomacy and Bats spewing off aggressive Miller one-liners. While they fight, Bats gradually comes to terms with the idea that this alien is a decent dude- but! Batman's conviction is iron-forged. He knows he needs to kill him despite his nagging moral conscience suggesting he shouldn't.
Suddenly you have a compelling scene, where Bats must slowly chose between his instincts and the facts laid bare before him. Suddenly you have a genuine character moment, where he realizes that he's wrong. Suddenly you have a film called Batman v Superman that properly makes good on its promise.
Instead, we've got a couple of assholes having a punch fight, until one asshole almost kills the other asshole, but then it turns out their moms have the same names, so I guess they're buddies now.
>>84131561
Batman didn't wanted to know his enemy, he just wanted to get rid of it.
Superman was pretty much like an even worse version of future Batman in Batman's mind. He thought he knew everything there was to know about Superman.
>>84131648
>Batman didn't wanted to know his enemy, he just wanted to get rid of it.
You get rid of your enemy BY knowing him!
>>84131612
>ith Supes consistently attempting to make diplomacy and Bats spewing off aggressive Miller one-liners.
By the time the fight happens, Clark has already burnt the bridge beyond repair with the whole "The Bat is dead" thing. Nobody seems to remember that scene happens BEFORE this fight and informs it.
>>84131688
But Batman thought he knew everything there was to know. Superman was just another misguided cunt playing hero, but real heroes bleed and die, like his father taught him. One day Superman would realize this, like he did, and what would happen then? What would Superman tantrum amount to? That's why he needed to kill Superman.
DKR
>Batman is a cynical, violent facist. But he's a really, really cool one who is an A-Level badass in every scene.
>Superman is a foppish boyscout who works for the evil 80's government and licks the boot of the powers that be.
>They fight at the end, and it's super satisfying to see me mon Bats fucking up the Superdick.
BvS
>Batman is a cynical, violent facist. He kills more than a couple people and most of his scenes get stolen by Alfred.
>Superman is a thoroughly decent guy just trying to do the right thing. Sometimes he fucks up, but- shit, guys. He's really trying.
>They fight at the end, and it's completely uncomfortable to see me Batfleck fucking up Sweet Boy Supes.
>>84131740
>But Batman thought he knew everything there was to know.
Right. Because the world's greatest detective with an obscene level of resources was written to be a retard that trusts a clearly unhinged LEX LUTHOR'S intel rather than doing any research of his own so that the shitty and poorly written conflict can be forced.
Telling us why the character is myopic to the point of stupidity DOESN'T CHANGE THE FACT THAT HE'S MYOPIC TO THE POINT OF STUPIDITY. IT DOESN'T MAKE IT OKAY.
Im tird of explain this scene
Even people itt who say they get it dont get it
Dummies must be trollin i hope
>>84131906
Bruce knew Lex Loogie was full of shit. He was NEXT of the batlist.
But killing the alien took priority.
This will be my only explanation of this flick which i understand completely and fully.
Tab closed!
>>84131906
>Right. Because the world's greatest detective with an obscene level of resources was written to be a retard that trusts a clearly unhinged LEX LUTHOR'S intel rather than doing any research of his own so that the shitty and poorly written conflict can be forced.
See, Lex intel didn't amount to shit. The movie pointed that out. Sure, it influenced a bit to reaffirm his own idea that Superman was a big fuck-up and only cost real people their lives, but Lex intel meant shit.
Batman was going to kill Superman not for what they did, but for what he was. How's that hard to understand?
Batman knew that Superman wanted to be a hero. He pretty much said so:
>I bet your parents taught you that you mean something, that you're here for a reason. My parents taught me a different lesson, dying in the gutter for no reason at all... They taught me the world only makes sense if you force it to.
The fact is that Batman stopped believing in hero-ship. He thought that people like him and Superman only brought pain and death in their stupid pursuits. He thought that real heroes are like his father, men that die and bleed, and Superman as fuck sure didn't bled.
>>84132083
But then Supes bled and Batman was all "Whoa, you're just like my daddy".
TRUE POTTERY.
>>84131982
>Bruce knew Lex Loogie was full of shit. He was NEXT of the batlist.
And yet he relies almost exclusively on Lex's research and doesn't do any off his own.
>>84132083
>See, Lex intel didn't amount to shit.
It amounted to Kryptonite. That's kind of a big thing.
>>84128224
It's not that people think that it's implausible. It's just anticlimactic and forced.
As in, you have to do that much mental gimnastics to justify it.
>>84128224
I liked the movie and got the scene, but it could've been replaced with something better.
Someone a while back said the fight happens at their own behest and Clark just stops trying halfway through, realizing how dumb it is. Bruce starts wailing on him while Clark just stands there and takes it. Bruce starts his "the one man who beat you" spiel and falls over from a heart attack, and then Clark flies him to Wayne Manor to get help from Alfred.
Someone had a variation on this in which a weakened Superman drives him there in the Batmobile which sounds like a lot of fun but I'm not sure how he'd figure out jow tp drove the thing.
>>84131226
I'm watching the Extended version torrent at the moment. Batfleck is great. Storytelling visuals are superb. The incredible morals side of the script and Lex Luthor's depiction is killing me.
>>84132514
Jesus, even what we got is better than that
Superman fans should keep their bias in check when thinking about possible plots
The problem here is the same as Miller's comic: GTFO with Batman and prep-time winning against Superman.
I don't care if Superman is "holding back". He only loses because he behaves like every stupid over-confident supervillain in history. "Oh I am so strong I will just slightly hurt and slap and tickle this foe OH NO HE HAS GOTTEN THE UPPER HAND HOW DID THIS HAPPEN???".
Superman could easily adhere to a no-kill rule and still destroy Batman in TDKR and in the movie. Simply crush his hands and toes then fly away.
>>84132591
I'm pretty sure most people in these threads are Batman/Superman fans.
>>84132631
I'm normally an anti-batfag, but he had every right to win in the context of the movie.
>batman has years of experience as the Bat of Gotham
>Superman is still relatively new and has only truly been in danger one time fighting someone as inexperienced as he was
>Batman had assloads of kryptonite that left superman weak the whole match
>Superman had no intention of killing batman
>>84128828
He could have been trying to protect his identity, if he said my mom and Bats went to save her then Batman would know he's Clark Kent. Idk.
>Clark raised his whole life to protect his identity
>"This guy wants to kill me, but I really need him to save my mom"
>"Save Martha"
Its so fucking autistic how many have this an issue.
>>84128224
>everyone posting "Martha = Get out of trouble with the big bad bat" pass.
Without Lois, it seemed like he would turn Supes into a kryptonian pen cushion as unhinged he went.
>>84128224
How can so few people get this? The name made Batman stop fighting and listen. Learning Superman was trying to save his mother is what made him stop fighting.
>>84128224
The biggest offense of that whole thing was there is never a reason why Clark can't just tell him what's going on. He could've easily disarmed him without hurting him and told him what was up
Neither one of them was really heroic and Lex was trash
Not an awful film but a letdowb
>>84128224
the setup was terrible.
you've never seen the batman in this movie have even a hint of compassion
now MURTHA is all it takes to send him back from the brink?
and I agree anon, supes never once called his mom MARTHA, fuck this movie
>>84135353
But that was the moment where Bruce realized that EVERYONE has parents.
Everyone but Zod. Zod had a really large vending machine-thingy. Fuck Zod.
Nobody actually thinks they stopped fighting because "Oh man, our moms have the same names". It's a fucking meme, no one can be that stupid. It's like that stupid "Tell that to Zod's snapped neck" meme that gets around now and again.
>>84128224
Did you miss the twenty or so people the Bat of Murder killed in the movie before he went after Clark? What makes you think he'd be reluctant to add another body to the pile?
>>84128224
>That's how i saw it anyway
That's how everyone saw it.
/tv/ is just shitposting as usual.
>>84128224
When Bruce is about to impale Clark to the ground and he stops it shows flashbacks of his nightmare of the Monster bat inside his mothers crypt. My first though was that Bruce is being consumed by Batman and is letting all the anger and rage of Batman getting the best off him. He stops and reflects that he is "Letting him kill Martha" as Clark says by betraying his original purpose of using batman to bring peace and preventing people from losing significant ones, then he realises he is the same as the murderer that killed his fathers *another cue flashback*. Then he gets that Clark is another being with a loving family, and he's got the chance to "save" him from a similar fate as his.
>>84135635
Each with a mother called Martha no less.
>>84132698
The Batman/Superman fans are the ones that are being called autists and shitposters by the Snyderfags and /tv/ kinocasuals.
>>84133987
>>Clark raised his whole life to protect his identity
You mean the identity that Lois figures out in under a month despite Clark being a drifter with no social ties rather than an established reporter, while Bruce can't figure it out when he's got fucking satellites and is supposedly a brilliant detective with near infinite resources, because for some reason when you're plotting to kill someone you'd never ever think to go get them at their home when their guard is down?
>>84128434
He believed Superman was responsible for not only killing a bunch of people in the city but also a bunch of his associates...He put joker on hold and started to work on the only viable option in his mind to deal with an alien that could level a city in an afternoon.
Snyder's Batman is a criminal who kills henchmen with his expensive gadgets.
>Superman can locate Lois in a desert in Africa
>Can't find his own mother in his own city
>>84129596
It's ok Darkseid, we can make you a Marthabox.
>>84134002
Without Lois Batfag wouldn't have had to waste his damn time retrieving a kryptonite spear from the bottom of flooded tower. Probably would have been enough time to prevent Superman from dying. I get Snyder wanted to create some suspense, but that shit was so unnecessary.
>>84136561
He wasn't listening for his mother.
Even though in the last movie we saw that listening for his mother was how he learned to control his senses in the first place
It's like none of you fuckers understand movies
Not one person got it right in this thread
Do you really not understand these characters without having to be told
I will not tell you what was really happening in this scene
maybe you should all watch it a couple times more instead of saying the first thing that makes sense in your mind
This is batman and superman not human vs super human
>>84130921
90's movie Batman was a killer but killed the Joker. And Penguin. And Two-Face, in self-defense.
00's movie Batman tried not to kill but unintentionally killed due to either fuckups (the prisoner at the League of Shadows) or last-minute decisions (needing to save Gordon's kid over Harvey). In fact, Ra's might be his only actual "kill" in the sense that he decides to get the fuck out of the train and makes it clear he wasn't going to save Ra's that time.
10's Batman kills a lot...... but doesn't kill the Joker.
>>84137021
>This is batman and superman not human vs super human
No, it's Arthur vs Jesus. You're the one that doesn't understand.
>>84136561
>wanting to listen to your own mother get some kansas dicking while saving puppies from burning buildings.
>>84137289
>not wanting to listen
>>84137289
Wouldn't he be hearing everyone getting every kind of dicking at all times of the day?
>>84137381
There was actually a discussion I started a few years ago about how Superman probably hears a lot of horny women (and men) jacking it to him and has to filter it out (their cries of "Superman!" pre-orgasm would likely cause a false alarm and grab his attention) when he's talking to the league or Lois, and keep a straight face to feign ignorance should he ever run into them.
There are probably a few who know he can hear them and get off even harder.
It's quite a job.
>>84128224
what really bakes my noodle is why they didnt just let her finish off Bizzar-day,
worst knock she got off him,mussed up her hair at most,she even smiled and charged right back in.
>>84128224
It could have been fixed so easily
Instead of Martha, Clark says mother, then Lois arrives and she says her name is Martha
The fact that Clark might lose his mom should be the thing that makes Bruce hesitate, not that they have the same name
>>84128224
it just the shit cherry on top of a turd
