My favorite of superhero comics is the interplay of the character archetypes, the way the arch-nemesis of the hero will reflect the shadow of their psyche, their inner demons and counter points to the ideology they adhere to. The most prominent example is of course the Joker reflecting the narcissistic vanity of Bruce Wayne's alter persona as Batman, but we see this idea reflected in many other heroes and villains. Captain America wielding his shield is a defender of his ideals while Baron Zemo with his sword is a conqueror and imposer of his ideals, Iron Man is a futurist paragon bringing modernity to the world while the Mandarin is the living bastion of the archaic world, Superman utilizes his superior intellect and power over humanity as a humble civil servant where Lex Luthor lords his superiority over humanity as a ruler.
Discerning what these dynamics between heroes and their villains are is the primary reason I even read these kinds of stories. The point of me making this thread is that I want to brainstorm and try and figure out this kind of dynamic for lesser known heroes and villains with you guys just so we can see what we come up with. We don't have to have it all figured out right off the bat, so let's just throw some ideas out there.
The Flash and The Reverse Flash has always been a perplexing hero/villain dynamic to me that I really want to understand in greater depth. The Reverse Flash is among the best in all of comic books in regards to the arch-nemesis league, but I've never had a clear picture of what his thematic dynamic is with the Flash outside of bits and pieces of ideas.
>>83236431
My favorite *aspect, I meant to say.
K
The only thing I've ever been able to think of in terms of The Flash and The Reverse Flash is Eobard acting as an absolute refutation of the very concept of hero worship. Barry, who is among all superheroes the most square and least subversive character there is, virtuous to the core of his being, humble, respectful, caring, a family man, a pillar of his community and an example for all defenders of the law, leaves a legacy of heroism that leads to his apotheosis as a legendary figure in the 25 to the 31st centuries seen through the Legion of Superheroes and various other flash forwards to the future of DC's earth. Eobard comes in as this man obsessed with the legend of the Flash, who ultimately through his obsession becomes the living embodiment of everything opposed to the ideals constituted by the Flash, a malicious and criminally insane force of nature that lives to rip everything that is good out of existence.
One of my favorites is the thematic dynamic between Aquaman and Black Manta. As the Lord of the Oceans, Aquaman is made to answer for the seemingly cruel and violent nature of the seas, the vicous storms and shipwrecks it levies upon humanity, through the irrational hatred of Black Manta, who in contrast to other supervillains who usually seem to have some ulterior motive, robbing a bank or what have you, lives solely to spite Aquaman and ruin his life in the most dramatic and hurtful ways that he can. Black Manta takes the life of Aquaman's children in the name of all the people who have suffered from the merciless whims of the oceans.
I've already mentioned the dynamic between Iron Man and The Mandarin, but to add upon it, I've come to see Iron Man's battles against Fin Fang Foom in a similar context as the battles between heroes and monsters in the Greek mythological canon. For example, I see parallels between the hero Cadmus who acts as the champion of human civilization and slays the dragon of Boeotiam, who is the bastion of the wild and savage nature of the world and needs to be overcome in order to secure the land for the future of humanity. In a similar way, we see Iron Man as the champion of humanities future fighting against Fin Fang Foom who embodies an opposition to the progress of humanity into the world of modernity.
The imagery of serpents and dragons is extremely important in understanding Superhero mythology.
>>83237557
I of course meant *Boeotia, rather than Boeotiam.
The writer who is able to capture this sentiment with the greatest effect, at least in my opinion, is Frank Miller.
As one would infer from his name, Daredevil as a character is largely driven to his actions as a superhero by a lust for the thrill of the adrenaline rush that he gets from his activities as a superhero. Frank Miller weaves Bullseye into the stories of Daredevil as the demon of this lust for the thrills of life within the psyche of Matt, acting as the ultimate consequence of pursuing that lifestyle. Their fights on the roller coasters of Coney Island demonstrate this idea with the most clarity.
To expand out of the world of Marvel and DC in regards to this sense of thematic dichotomy in comics, Judge Dredd and Judge Death form another prime example of this kind of dynamic. In the post apocalyptic world of 2000 AD, Judge Death stands as the paragon of law and order within human civilization, while Judge Death comes into play as the living manifestation of the desolation that awaits humanity outside of the walls and authoritarian rule of Mega-City One.
One of the most iconic examples of this hero/villain dynamic, one which I'd really like some input from you guys on, is the thematic dynmaic between Spider-Man and the Green Goblin. I've never really been able to pin point their dichotomy despite them being so famous in the arch-nemesis league.
>>83238287
1. I am fascinated by how much thought youve put into this chief, tho i must say not every enemy is gonna have this relationship, tho great rivalries are more often then not able to contain this. In comics espcially itll be harder to find since villians are so generally purposed these days, instead of being specific rivals.
2. As for gobby and spidey theres an old early 2000s run which explains their relstionship pretty well, wherein we see spidey and gobby as similar dudes, even friends. They both love science, and have a want to better the world. While both are changed into superpowered monsters, they use the incidents for different means. Spidey obviously trying to save everyone he can, and gobby using it to take as much as he can and change the world (or new york) to a vision he sees fit. Eventually the similarties between the two gets too much for gobby to handle where he begins to torture spidey because he cant handle how someone could choose self sacrifice over superiority (which makes libertarian spidey espcially dumb but hey)
>>83238613
>>83238613
I developed this perception for story telling mostly through studying the Greek mythological canon, where the tales of heroes and monsters have this sort of thematic symbolism. For example, in the myth of Theseus and the Minotaur, we see Theseus represent the higher, heroic nature of man, the champion of civilized mores that are struggling to overcome the savage archaic mores of primitive civilization, which are embodied in the Minotaur, who represents the lower bestial nature of man, the desire for rape, sadism and human sacrifice opposed to Theseus who eventually brings about the political unification of Attica and the advent of the Acropolis in Athens, which was understood to be among the earliest manifestations of higher ordered civilization on earth in a mythohistoric context.
The most unique aspect of Green Goblin as an arch-nemesis, at least in my view, is in the way he lives his villanious alter ego through a secret identity, which is something almost always only held by the hero and never the villain. There's something about the dynamic between Spider-Man and Green Goblin that cuts to the core of the very idea of living a secret life that is such a staple of superhero stories.
The movie Unbreakable extols upon this concept of symbolic artistry within the archetypes of superheroes more poignantly than any other superhero movie, at least in my opinion.
I relate to Mr. Glass so deeply
http://tune.pk/video/2566757/best-movie-scene-unbreakable-this-is-piece-of-art
>Now that we know who you are... I know who I am. I'm not a mistake! It all makes sense. In a comic, you know how you can tell who the arch-villain's going to be? He's the exact opposite of the hero, and most time's they're friends, like you and me. I should've known way back when. You know why, David? Because of the kids. They called me Mr. Glass.
>>83238613
In regards to your point about most villains not neatly fitting into this paradigm, I feel like we can draw thematic significance in even minor villains, even if it requires a major feat of stretching.
Even someone like the Penguin can be interpreted as the shadow of Bruce Waynes wealth or the greed and glutton of the aristocracy of Gotham writ large
