Hello. My name is Helmut Zemo. I have a simple plan: I'm going to hire Crossbones to pretend to steal a bioagent so Captain America will try to stop him but fail to prevent him from using a suicide belt, thus necessitating Scarlet Witch to trap the explosion in an energy bubble but misjudge its potency, thereby accidentally destroying a building. This will of course cause the UN (which in this universe has actual political power) to meet to discuss limiting the authority of superheroes, since they've only saved all of humanity twice at the cost of slightly more civilians than people who die worldwide of cigarette smoking per hour, thus allowing me to bomb the UN and kill the King of Wakanda, who was only there because the destroyed building had a few Wakandans in it. I know that even though the Wakandans are an insular people with super advanced technology that they would trust the UN security's competence with the life of their king. I will then frame Bucky for this so that the UN will track him down and attempt to kill him because I know Captain America will stop them and attempt to help him escape. This is my plan because I know Black Panther, who is only involved because the King of Wakanda died because of the Wakandan civilians in the destroyed building I couldn't possibly expect to be there, will accidentally get them all arrested. Then I'll infiltrate the UN even though they know my face as a HYDRA guy and set Bucky off, thus instigating a 'civil war' between the superheroes that will result in zero deaths. I also expected Spiderman, Scarlet Witch, and Ant-Man to join in the fray even though none of them have any motive for doing so, and for the fight to be inconclusive.
>>82935053
Then I'll attract Captain America and Bucky to a HYDRA lair in Siberia where I know exists a VHS tape of Bucky killing Stark's parents, because HYDRA tapes all of its assassinations, even though I didn't know where this base is at the beginning of the movie, thus displaying I know the contents of a base I don't know the location of. I will show the tape to Iron Man, who I know will show up because I know he'll learn about how I killed the real psychologist sent to talk to Bucky in the UN building even though you'd think the UN would investigate that further the moment they realized I set him off, and because I know he'll persuade Falcon to tell him where Captain America went even though Falcon has no reason to trust him. Even though Iron Man knows Bucky was mind controlled by Nazi scientists and that I, the villain, am right in front of him, I know this will set him off into a murderous rampage. I will also not rig the facility with explosives or poison gas or anything and trust the heroes can kill each other, even though I should know that Captain America would never kill Iron Man despite his nonsensical rampage.
It's almost too easy.
>>82935053
He didn't hire Crossbones.
>>82935053
This is an excellent plan.
>>82935053
>>82935060
>the villain is directly responsible for literally everything that happens in the story
why are you /tv/ faggots so autistic?
>>82935053
>I'm going to hire Crossbones to pretend to steal a bioagent
You fucked up already. That was completely unrelated
>>82935053
You're a CUTE
>>82935053
I couldn't take Zemo seriously, because he looked too much like MC Vagina guy.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15S0g8pG6HU
>>82935053
>>82935060
Probably the biggest flaw with the movie Zemo was great and I'm open to the idea of a puppetmaster making them fight, but fuck his plan depended on way too many coincidences to work. How would he know Bucky, Cap and Iron Man would go to the outpost alone? Why did he tell them that his plan was to make them fight each other right before he wanted them to fight, more importantly why DID they fight after he told them that?
>>82935450
them showing up at the outpost wasnt ultimate necessary
but it was a nice bonus
you think tony is gonna listen to reason after seeing a tape like that?
>>82935450
This. Also no costume. Also the whole parent vid was Martha tier.
>>82935450
I've heard hearsay that Zemo would've just emailed Tony the recording whenever he wanted to.
>>82935053
He didn't hire Crossbones, you doofus.
His plan was just:
>Find out where the tape of Bucky killing the Starks is
>Show it to Tony
>>82935450
>Probably the biggest flaw with the movie Zemo was great and I'm open to the idea of a puppetmaster making them fight, but fuck his plan depended on way too many coincidences to work. How would he know Bucky, Cap and Iron Man would go to the outpost alone?
You are assuming he wouldn't have preferred if Steve, Bucky or Tony had died at some point way before this. The whole point is that Zemo made sure that he can't actually lose by planning for every possible path. If the Germans killed Bucky early on it would be far easier for him to twist an enraged Steve Rogers away from Tony. And if at any point either Steve or Tony died then the Avengers are as good as disbanded anyway. He ended up winning, but it was a much minor victory than otherwise. There was far worse paths the story could have took, had Steve and Tony not held back this long.
>>82936075
>I've heard hearsay that Zemo would've just emailed Tony the recording whenever he wanted to.
Not heresy. It is in the writer's podcast. Listen to the whole thing, it is enlightening.
http://www.craveonline.com.au/entertainment/985969-captain-america-civil-war-writers-b-movies-podcast#/slide/1
Why is it okay for comics Zemo to be a keikaku master that plans for situations at every turn but not movie Zemo?
Fuck his original plan didn't even involve all that. It was just "interrogate Hydra guy, find location of base, get vid, rest plays itself out'
>>82935053
>>82935060
That was retarded and you should be embarrassed you took the time to write all that out.
>>82936508
>interrogate Hydra guy, find location of base, get vid, rest plays itself out
Yeah, that was pretty much his plan.
Why is this so hard for OP to figure out?
>>82935053
>>82935060
You're making more assumptions and leaps of faith than you're claiming Zemo did btw.
>>82936508
>Fuck his original plan didn't even involve all that. It was just "interrogate Hydra guy, find location of base, get vid, rest plays itself out'
The Hydra guy being loyal to death is what forced Zemo to have to bomb the UN, yeah. That's what he meant when he told the guy that telling him what he wanted would spare innocent people.
>>82936508
this
framing bucky was just to get the info out of him, he needed him caught by the avengers because he knew he couldn't go 1 on 1 with the guy. setting him against the heroes was a distraction for escape and getting the vid ready to show to tony. he had a bitterness to super beings which is why he killed the winter soldiers instead of setting them loose as his henchmen.
>>82936621
And basically, the only reason he needed to bomb the UN was because Bucky knew where the Siberian base is. He had to do things the hard way because "Hail Hydra" and all that.
That Hydra agent was a tough SOB. I respect that he was willing to die for what he believed in.
OP, you're a little more moronic than usual today. You sick?
>>82935168
Worked perfectly for him, though.
>>82936767
>Worked perfectly for him, though.
It's all about opportunities. You don't have to control everything, you just have to be prepared to grab your chance when something pops up.
>There are people that think Marvel already have detailed plans for what will happen for all of their planned movies even though they put something like this in their Civil War along with other similarities to BvS and still aren't even done writing the script for Thor: Ragnarok
>>82936767
This is why he's a keikaku master anon
You think he knew jack about the Accords?
>>82935053
There's nothing to suggest he hired crossbones, but if he did,
>thus necessitating Scarlet Witch to trap the explosion in an energy bubble but misjudge its potency, thereby accidentally destroying a building.
Didn't need to happen. He could have blown up in the middle of that market, killed a bunch of people, and still had the same effect.
>thus allowing me to bomb the UN and kill the King of Wakanda, who was only there because the destroyed building had a few Wakandans in it. I know that even though the Wakandans are an insular people with super advanced technology that they would trust the UN security's competence with the life of their king.
Is bullshit. He didn't necessarily intend for T'Chaka to die, and he didn't need that to happen anyway. If for instance, Black Widow had died in the building, and Bucky was thought responsible, it would have turned Hawkeye against Cap.
You're treating this like he knew everything that would happen, and planned it all exactly, when studying the movie shows that he was actually just sowing discord at crucial points.
>>82935450
>his plan depended
No. No it did not. Because it did not need to go exactly the way it did.
>How would he know Bucky, Cap and Iron Man would go to the outpost alone?
Why would he need to know that?
Why did he tell them that his plan was to make them fight each other right before he wanted them to fight, more importantly why DID they fight after he told them that?
Because he understands the need for revenge on a deep, personal level.
>>82937337
>Because he understands the need for revenge on a deep, personal level.
Zemo even admit outright that he knows he murdered good people when he blew up the UN. That he killed other people's families. But his need for revenge simply overshadows the fact that he is a deliberate hypocrite. Revenge is not logical.
>>82935053
>>82935060
You know...when its written out, it seems kind of stupid.
I didn't get his motivation. He was mad at the avengers or just Tony??
He was mad at them ...but not enough to kill them? Just to create two separate teams of avengers?
I would have preferred it if he spent his time pulling a scheme where the avengers become public enemies. (its been in plenty of comics)
Like if he really didn't want to kill them he just ruins their good name (though I don't know if people care...do we get people's reactions to any of them? Seems like Tony was well liked in his movies but I don't recall it for anyone else)
Anyway.
he's one the worst villains as he is disconnected from the entire plot really (the accords... I know he set up bucky but I'm guess people were looking for an unstoppable soviet assassin anyway)
>>82936852
its called bad writing. Most likely because they just slapped some dumb "heroes vs heroes" crap on the serpent society script without much thought.
>>82937849
He literally explains his entire motive and plan at the base.
He hates the Avengers because they killed his family. If the Avengers were struck down by an outside force, they could rebuild. But if they fell apart from within, they're done for good.
>>82935226
>>82937935
>its called bad writing. Most likely because they just slapped some dumb "heroes vs heroes" crap on the serpent society script without much thought.
If that's what you believe, then it seems you have no idea what it means to plan long term. Because if you plan ahead assuming everything would go as you predicted, you will fail.
>>82935450
He didn't need them to show up at the Hydra base, it just sped his plan along, he could have just leaked the video to the public and included the references in the leaked Hydra files.
Then just ask the question, how can the world trust the Avengers when they can't even trust their own friends and such.
>>82935053
Zemo was never HYDRA. He was a colonel in the Sokovian army and part of an elite death squad group.
He knows of HTDRA thanks to Widow releasing all the HYDRA information stored at Shield.
>>82935053
>I'm going to hire Crossbones to pretend to steal a bioagent so Captain America will try to stop him but fail to prevent him from using a suicide belt, thus necessitating Scarlet Witch to trap the explosion in an energy bubble but misjudge its potency, thereby accidentally destroying a building.
Nope
> thus allowing me to bomb the UN and kill the King of Wakanda, who was only there because the destroyed building had a few Wakandans in it.
Zemo did not give an iota of a fuck about T'Chaka, Wakanda or T'Challa's grief. What security or defenses they'd have in place or who survived was not important so long as he could frame the attempted bombing on Bucky.
Further, I've said it again and again regarding the principles of his actions and their repercussions; Zemo hand waves the matter of all he's done when in front of one of the victims at the end.
That should have spelled it out, but I'm surprised it was necessary since the movie shows him killing two people who have done him no harm just to get in a room with Bucky.
All so he could just turn the false accusation against him into a real one since he probably knew if Bucky was interrogated they'd learn he had nothing to do with the bombing. Much like how he plays the footage in front of Tony to legitimize his hate of Bucky.
You weren't even paying attention.
As for that other nonsense clearly the rest of the movie went over your head, he didn't know or care if Bucky would be arrested or killed, he just wanted Cap to attempt to stop it from happening since he knew Steve had a personal connection to him and it would put him at odds with everyone else aware of who the Winter Soldier is, with or without the recent framing. He didn't even care if the Avengers ended up locked up, just getting them to hurt each other was all he cared about. He was a manipulative sociopath. It's that simple. This is like people watching Silence of the Lambs and wondering why that nice old man is being so mean.
His plan was find tape.
Show it to Tony.
The where and when never mattered.
>>82937935
>serpent society script
There was never a "Serpent Society script" you ignoramus. There were ideas about what they would do with a 3rd Captain America movie that included Bucky, Cap, and Zemo, and Zemo has nothing to do with the Serpent Society. "Serpent Society" was a joke at an expo.
>>82937849
>villain efficiently makes moments he didn't create turn into an advantage
>this is a terrible villain because he didn't mastermind everything in the movie
Zemo is pretty much the only villain worth a damn in the MCU but ok
>>82935450
>tony is never told by sam where to go
>tony is told where to go but tells the army and they all head there
Either of those were more likely to happen and would completely screw over Zemo's plan. I've nitpicked the MCU but I'm willing to let that slide.
Yeah, he pretty much tells Hydra dude that he's forcing him to improvise.
>>82935053
>I'm going to hire Crossbones to pretend to steal a bioagent
WHEN in the movie did it ever suggest that Zemo was behind this?
I am legitimately asking because people keep saying it but I don't recall them ever making this connection. I thought the crossbones thing was just an isolated incident to open the movie with?
>>82938369
>Either of those were more likely to happen and would completely screw over Zemo's plan.
That would change nothing as Zemo would still have the tape, and he would just drive away and release the tape some other time.
Why are people over complicating his plan to this degree when all he wanted was a tape?
The outpost didn't matter, the accords didn't matter. This was just stuff he used. He would have originally just flown to the outpost without any attention if the hydra guy coughed up its location and sent the video to Tony.
>>82935053
You... you didn't watch the movie, did you?
>>82938425
Idiots, for some reason people are trying to find a flaw with the movie I guess, most seem to point at Zemo just because, though their reasoning is generally pretty weak, if they're trying to imply he's connected to Crossbones they've gone full retard, possibly buttflustered DCEU fans.
Hydra has basically been completely dismantled both from WS and AoS, the leader was killed by Hive and he gave Shield what the needed to hunt down the rest of Hydra that was hiding from the WS leaks. Crossbones was probably among the last to go, throw in whatever reason you feel like, perhaps he lost communication with the rest of Hydra when they were fixing him from taking a building to the face so he just tried to go solo merc.
OP, have you considered that the reason this plan is so convoluted is that maybe Zemo's improvising this shit as he goes on?
>>82935053
>>82935060
So you're saying that a comic book villain in a comic book movie has a comic book plan?
Ok.
>>82935846
>Also the whole parent vid was Martha tier.
Who the hell was filming that anyway? If it was a CCTV camera, how did it suddenly zoom in from ground level after being shown from regular wall-camera height initially?
>>82935053
ur dumb, OP.
Zemo knew three things at the start of the movie:
- Winter Soldier is Cap's bff Bucky
- Howard Stark was killed by Winter Soldier
- Colonel GoToHell was the Winter Soldier's handler.
He went to Colonel GoToHell looking for anything he could get. He wasn't asking specific questions, he wanted to know everything about the mission on Dec 16, 1991.
Since GoToHell was uncooperative, Zemo had to find the only other person that he knew was involved in Dec 16, 1991: Bucky.
Since he didn't know where Bucky was, he bombed the UN, waited for Bucky to be found and captured, and waited for a psychologist to be sent so he could kill and impersonate him.
From Bucky, he learned the location of the base, the nature of the cargo in Howard's trunk that night, and the fact that there had been a surveillance camera at the crash site (Bucky knew this because he shot the camera in the video).
Knowing now that there was a video of the murder, Zemo rushes to Siberia to get it.
The fact that Cap and Tony found out where the base was is secondary. Once Zemo had the video he could have presented it to Stark a thousand different ways. But since they happened to show up at the base shortly after he did, he went ahead and popped the video in the vcr.
>>82935053
How did he know about Bucky?....seriously its not like it was public knowledge that Bucky was the Winter Soldier.
How did he know about Hydra's secrets? Because it was convenient for the movie? If he wasn't part of Hydra how the fuck would he know?
>>82938873
>Since he didn't know where Bucky was, he bombed the UN, waited for Bucky to be found and captured, and waited for a psychologist to be sent so he could kill and impersonate him.
And if Bucky ended up killed by the Germans, Zemo would have lost access to that mission's files. But then Bucky's death would almost certainly have de-stabilised and emotionally compromised Steve Rogers. And that means instead of driving Tony crazy, Zemo would drive Steve crazy instead. That would be an entirely viable alternative path.
>>82939015
>How did he know about Bucky?....seriously its not like it was public knowledge that Bucky was the Winter Soldier.
>How did he know about Hydra's secrets? Because it was convenient for the movie? If he wasn't part of Hydra how the fuck would he know?
Did you even watch the movie? He TOLD you outright how he knew.
>>82938649
>people are trying to find a flaw with the movie
It's not like you have to try very hard, it's a pretty stupid movie.
>>82939015
>He didn't watch The Winter Soldier
kys
>>82938744
>It's supposed to be retarded so that makes it OK
>>82939015
Did you not watch it? This is explained in Zemo's first scene:
When Black Widow dumped all of S.H.I.E.L.D files onto the internet in Winter Soldier, there were a ton of Hydra files in that. "Millions of pages. Much of it encrypted, not easy to decipher, but I have experience...and patience. A man can do ANYTHING if he has those."
Just in case you did watch it and just don't grasp what happened, let me break it down for you:
Zemo is the head of a covert intelligence agency for Sokovia (Echo Scorpion, this is stated in the movie). He decrypted Hydra files about the Winter Soldier, learned that Cap's boyfriend killed Iron Man's parents, and knew he could use this to drive a wedge between the two of them.
>>82938748
It was pretty clearly just a move for more drama. Bucky seen killing them from a static camera angle in grainy black and white wouldn't have the same effect.
>>82939015
Holy shit people really can't pay attention or understand supposedly simpleminded comic movies.
Black Widow leaked all of SHIELD and HYDRA's files at the end of Captain America: Winter Soldier to expose them in a way they could not possibly recover from. Remember the movie before this?
After Avengers: Age of Ultron Zemo spent a year deciphering those files so he could have every piece of background information HYDRA had through SHIELD on the Avengers.
Also it's precisely because he's not part of HYDRA that he not only has to go about it in this complicated one-man way instead of having manpower and giving orders like Strucker, but also why he got away with it since the rest of HYDRA is shown currently laying low to escape notice. So they had no idea what he was doing. The entire point of Zemo's character is how he turns powerful groups and organizations against themselves through exploiting their vulnerabilities when they're down on the ground.
This movie just proves you can explain every single thing and not fix the inherent problem of a retarded audience.
>>82935053
That's a whole lot of reaching there. His plan was just to find the tape and only required Tony and Steve to be together. Everything else was just people being dumb, argumentative, and tense. His actions resulted in the hero conflicts escalating to violence, but it was just convenient and didn't matter to him until the end.
>>82935053
>>82935060
You shouldn't carry your BvS overanalysing everything and just tried and enjoyed a proper movie.
>>82938703
How long did it take for Zemo to improvise the construction of the EMP he built?
>>82939602
>he built
>what is black market
>>82936273
This but also
>frame Bucky for a high profile crime so Cap defies his peers by defebding him
Really the only parts that NEEDED to go a certain way. Every other step of his plan could have conceivably gone a different way and still worked out. Remember, originally he wanted that Hydra guy to tell him more. When the guy didn't, he changed up.
>>82939602
>How long did it take for Zemo to improvise the construction of the EMP he built?
He had it built and stored up in his hotel room. But it was clearly only a backup plan and he hoped that the Hydra agent could have spared him the work.
>>82938369
He got his video. He exists left stage, and then emails it to Tony privately later.
>>82939779
>>frame Bucky for a high profile crime so Cap defies his peers by defebding him
>Really the only parts that NEEDED to go a certain way.
Well, even if Steve didn't try to defend Bucky, Bucky would still end up either dead or captured. If captured Zemo go for the impersonate psychiatrist route. If he died he goes for >>82939043
And after he got what he wanted out of Bucky, Bucky would have ended up actually attacking people in the building and would have to be on the run either way.
>>82939920
Yeah, main point being he had several possible win conditions, and didn't really rely on any particular coincidence to succeed
>>82936508
Because Zemowksy's plan wasn't a keikaku, it was him just playing roulette.
>Phew thank goodness Im literally the 1 person on the planet with the interest and the ability to hack the Hydra/Shield files open
>Phew thank goodness these Sokovia Accords just happen to take effect at the same time as MY plan to break up the Avengers gets going
>Phew thank goodness theres only 1 traffic cam in all of the UN grounds so no one sees me drive in or drive away, only plant the bomb
>Phew thank goodness that Avenger couldnt outrace me on a staircase
>Phew thank goodness my emp bomb wiped out the recording of me posing as the psychoanalyst and every other camera on this facility so Im not prevented from boarding this plane to Moscow
>Phew thank goodness this hydra base still exists
>Phew thank goodness Hydra left a little wheely monitor here
>Phew thank goodness Hydra loves to rewatch videos of their assassinations on Movie Tuesdays so they kept the CCTV video all these years
>Phew thank goodness Captain America didnt punch the tv
>Phew thank goodness Captain America didnt tell Tony Stark that Winter Soldier killed his parents already
>Phew thank goodness Hulk or Thor didnt show up or theyd rip this bunker off the hinges
>>82939015
>people don't pay attention when shit regarding plot was practically thrown at them
i know these are turn off your brain pop corn movies, but come on. what the fuck are some of you doing in the movie theater?
>>82940286
>Movie Tuesdays
>>82940286
>Phew thank goodness Stark showed up! If he wasnt told by the black fella where to come, it would be pretty awkward with just me America and Bucky
>>82940286
>>Phew thank goodness Im literally the 1 person on the planet with the interest and the ability to hack the Hydra/Shield files open
Survivor bias.
>>Phew thank goodness these Sokovia Accords just happen to take effect at the same time as MY plan to break up the Avengers gets going
Irrelevant to the plan. He could've bombed any UN meeting to get what he wanted
>>Phew thank goodness theres only 1 traffic cam in all of the UN grounds so no one sees me drive in or drive away, only plant the bomb
There might have been more pics of him, but they were looking for Bucky and might have disreagrded them.
>>Phew thank goodness that Avenger couldnt outrace me on a staircase
He ran into people to blend in.
>>Phew thank goodness my emp bomb wiped out the recording of me posing as the psychoanalyst and every other camera on this facility so Im not prevented from boarding this plane to Moscow
It didn't. It just didn't get broadcast fast enough to stop him. People were still looking for Bucky because he attacked the people inside the building.
>>Phew thank goodness this hydra base still exists
He knew it existed because it was a bunker. Bunkers are made to last.
>>Phew thank goodness Hydra left a little wheely monitor here
>>Phew thank goodness Hydra loves to rewatch videos of their assassinations on Movie Tuesdays so they kept the CCTV video all these years
He could've gotten away with sending the video after, but sure, it was made for a better movie.
>>Phew thank goodness Captain America didnt punch the tv
That would've only confirmed it to Tony's eyes.
>>Phew thank goodness Captain America didnt tell Tony Stark that Winter Soldier killed his parents already
Good point, actually.
>>Phew thank goodness Hulk or Thor didnt show up or theyd rip this bunker off the hinges
Irrelevant, he didn't need to be alive for the video to take effect.
I mean, some are a bit of leaps of faith, but it's not more far fetched from movie convenience than anything else.
>>82939070
Well I wasn't listening, I was thinking of something else
>>82940286
1. Bullshit. We're going to see more people with leaked Hydra info. Zemo is just the first of many.
2. Legit coincidence, but not actually necessary for Cap and Iron Man to be at odds over Bucky killing Howard. The way the film played out was worst-case-scenario for Tony, but even if the Accords never happened, the Colonel cooperated, the UN wasn't bombed, and Bucky was still in hiding, Tony getting that video in the mail would have been a major upset between him and Cap.
3. He's the leader of a covert ops team. The one camera that saw hi is the one camera he deliberately walked in front of.
4. Again, leader of a covert ops kill squad. Zemo was not a desk-jockey.
5. You expect a top-secret facility to be scheduled for demolition when no one in the legit government knows it was even there? They think it's a closed-down obsolete missile silo.
6. >implying Zemo didn't wheel a monitor out into the one big room
7. The video was part of the mission report. Things like that get kept forever, by any modern military.
8. If Cap punched the tv, Zemo could still send the video to Stark later. Not to mention the fact that Zemo knew that killing the super-soldatz confused Cap and Tony and so he said that line about "but then you wouldn't know why you've come here" to pique their curiosity about the video about to play.
Not to mention the fact that if Cap broke the tv and Zemo got the video to Tony later, it would just make Cap look that much worse for keeping Tony from finding out the truth in the silo.
9. The fact that Cap and Iron Man are still friends pretty much tells you this didn't happen. Zola showed Cap the picture of Howard Stark's obituary while saying "when history did not cooperate, history was changed", extremely heavily implying that Hydra had Howard killed. Cap is the sort of polite person who wouldn't bring up a conspiracy theory about your dead parents in casual conversation.
10. Zola was ready to die anyway.
>>82939015
You know for all the people who call TWS the best Marvel movie there sure are a lack of people who remember what happened in it
>>82940286
>Phew thank goodness these Sokovia Accords just happen to take effect at the same time as MY plan to break up the Avengers gets going
Vice versa, Zemo did not act until he knew the Avengers were vulnerable due to unavoidable political backlog building from their activities. He stresses his patience on this matter.
>Phew thank goodness theres only 1 traffic cam in all of the UN grounds so no one sees me drive in or drive away, only plant the bomb
Zemo was SPECIFICALLY stated to be wearing a synthetic disguise to impersonate Bucky. He is skilled in stealth and espionage to know where a weak point exists to exploit.
>Phew thank goodness my emp bomb wiped out the recording of me posing as the psychoanalyst and every other camera on this facility so Im not prevented from boarding this plane to Moscow
Again, skilled in espionage.
>Phew thank goodness this hydra base still exists
What else would a heavily fortified HYDRA resource do? Enter the Negative Zone? HYDRA could not move an inch after CA:TWS and were sure they would rule the world before that.
>Phew thank goodness Hydra loves to rewatch videos of their assassinations on Movie Tuesdays so they kept the CCTV video all these years
Hydra kept records on their infiltration of SHIELD so they have worse offenses, but sure the traffic cam was the straw that broke the Warmachine's back.
>Phew thank goodness Captain America didnt punch the tv
Wat. Would that stop the footage from existing somehow?
>Phew thank goodness Hulk or Thor didnt show up or theyd rip this bunker off the hinges
Again, waited for an opportunity.
>>82940436
If Stark didn't show up he would have just sent the footage to him while Steve and Bucky were occupied searching the bunker since he knew Tony would come flying at Mach 5 to kill Bucky all the same.
>Oh shit wheres Stark!? No matter let me just email him the video using this Hydra Base wi-fi. The password should be in this red book somewhere....wait a minute how do I get the video...onto the..oh fuck I'll just take a video on my phone then text it to him! You're a fucking genius, Zemo! Wait, what's his phone number...let me ask Captain America
>"hydra record all their assassinations!"
>bucky clearly shown surprised by camera and shooting it
So its protocol for him to shoot cameras then hydra to get the footage anyway
Why shoot it
>>82941100
YouTube that fucking shit
Email it to the media
War Hero Assasination by Hydra revealed would be great news. And the world would know with Tony.
>>82941100
>What's his phone number
>What's the contact info of the man who gave out his details in the Iron Man series in a show of defiance.
>What's the number of a man who HYDRA already had detailed information on
>What's the number of that retard not capable of paying attention? Oh right it's 82 941 100
>>82939211
I thought he was just special forces in Sokovia, not like part of their CIA
>>82941253
>I thought he was just special forces in Sokovia, not like part of their CIA
For small nations, CIA and special forces tend to be merged together, as they don't have enough employees to have separate departments.
>>82941100
>Wait, what's his phone number
You know he gave out his phone number in IM3? It probably isn't even hard to find
Also he could just send it literally anywhere. The press caused T'Challa to go on a manhunt for Bucky when he thought he killed his dad. So how do you think Stark would handle it?
Seriously stop trying to find stupid holes
>>82941253
He was from a 'death squad'. Basically military assassins. I'm sure they kept it vague not to have people pick at the wrong thing.
Also >>82941300. Only continent-sized countries need to have an FBI and a CIA and a NSA and Spetial forces and whatnot. Smaller countries usually merge some of these.
>>82935053
Why don't you have Crossbones just rape Captain America?
>>82941686
you got it backwards, impostor gordon.
>>82941743
But that's Necrophilia!
>>82941253
>>82941349
The whole idea of Hydra keeping files seems king of hilariously out of place though.
Why would they keep digital notes on their top secret weapon?
>>82941192
Who put that camera there anyway...and how did they retrieve the tape?
>>82942091
That is a plot contrivance in the sense of media, but it can be excused much like how certain black operations had documents on them leaked.
One would question why anyone would even allow them to exist, but I suppose in the business of these things records have to be kept to keep record of what happened when in the future for reference or whatever sake. Not being Ed Snowden I can't tell you for sure myself.
>>82942091
It doubt it was digital. 1991 was a long time ago.
Maybe they kept it to blackmail escaped soldiers?
>>82942127
I think the camera was just there and Bucky killed it. Then someone went and grabbed it for leverage purposes. At least it's what I extrapolated from it.
>>82942180
Sorry *it can be excuased BECAUSE of how certain black operations in our world had documents on them leaked
COINTELPRO and the like for example.
Batman v Superman and Captain America: Civil War have the same plot. Like exactly the same.
>>82942326
Nah. They have the same premise. The plot and even story structure is very different.
Civil War has 4 acts, for example.
>>82942366
Don't even start with acts, no one can agree when an act begins or ends when it comes to a motion picture.
>>82942326
>>82942429
Fine, but you'll agree that CW has a weird structure, and that BvS is much more traditional, right?
>>82942091
>The whole idea of Hydra keeping files seems king of hilariously out of place though.
>Why would they keep digital notes on their top secret weapon
Nazis kept records of EVERYTHING. It is a matter of culture, where there are procedures and you follow them. So it is not unusual that Hydra did too. And if you keep records for long term you best keep it in a place like Siberia. It just happened that the records were kept in the same facility as the Winter Soldier. Hydra is organised.
>>82942437
While a weird tone shift I have to admit Scott's jab at Stark made me chuckle. He hit the nail on the head.
>>82942437
Some would say the best joke for BvS was the movie itself
>>82942541
Yeah, It's hard to fault Ant-Man to throwing shit at Iron Man.
>>82942437
They did mention the Airport being evacuated in CW.
But it's hard to put the two movies together because BvS is obviously an executive-meddled thing. Even from the choice of the director. CW only had to be ok to be better, but the fact that it was actually top-tier MCU is kind of like breaking an egg with an anvil.
Fucking shame too. We'll never have proper Supes on screen, and I've come to appreciate him a lot as of late. Cavill is a great choice too, it makes me sad.
>>82942506
What about the records which apparently were mixed in with SHIELD stuff that had info on Bucky?
>>82938061
Still kawaii :3
>>82942541
Scott had his good moments, even if they were small.
>>82942577
Jokes are for having a good laugh, Anon. Not for nervously smiling knowing something's off when Luthor appears with Jolly Ranchers.
>>82942689
Indeed, Cavill and Batfleck were good choices, but squandered epically.
>>82935053
>>82935060
Ok, here's how the plan really goes. Zemo hunts down former Hydra folks because he knows Bucky has an in with Cap and is aware that Bucky is a Hydra assassin who obtained Super Soldier Serum on whatever date whatever year, but not the specifics of the operation or Hydra's base location. Zemo gets the book with instructions on how to activate Bucky, realizes he needs to get access to give him the activation triggers. Frames Bucky for a large scale terrorist attack because Zemo is a super spy and can pull that type of shit off.
The idea is Bucky gets captured. Once that happens, Zemo, using his super spy disguise skills, gains access to Bucky, activates him, and learns the details of the operation and the location of the base.
Zemo proceeds to show up at the base, kill the frigid psychos, and loot the place. Who manages to show up but Cap, Bucky, and Iron Man. Wasn't really planning on that, but guess what? The operation that Zemo found out about involved the killing of the Starks, so Zemo plays the conveniently filed VHS tape of the murders. Not that it was necessary, because just the accusation and dead super soldiers was kind of a giveaway as to the shenanigans Bucky was up to. Cap and IM duke it out, Zemo leaves knowing he's caused a rift that will crumble the Avengers. Or they don't show up, and Zemo finished looting the place, and fucks off to continue to fuck with Tony Stark and Cap, because that's his purpose in life.
Everything else that happened? Basically coincidental in as much as the super heroes and wakanda are pretty dysfunctional as it is.
>>82942541
>There will never be a scene where Tony has to meet Hank and Hank's immediate first instinct is to punch him in the face
>>82935053
>>82935060
He wasn't lieing when he said he studied the Avengers.
>>82942843
Cavill seems like such an ill-fit in the DCEU cast. Ben, Leto and Smith are all established actors with much bigger names than him, and this is just their next job. To Cavill it's his opportunity, and he doesn't get to enjoy it because his movies are getting panned and his character is the main source of criticism, despite him being a great fit.
Marvel should hire him to go on adventures with Evans/Mackie/Stan to China.
>>82942689
>They did mention the Airport being evacuated in CW.
Yeah but it was like one line by Cap and it actually served a quick narrative purpose to let Team Cap know that "oh shit Stark's here time to go" as opposed to BvS having to mention it on three completely separate occasions so everybody knows it's because of the backlash Snyder got
>>82935053
I'm confused what was I suppose to do again boss..?
>>82942951
Actually technically all that was his second plan
His original plan was to just >>82936508. He didn't even want to use to book because that would have been way more deadlier. But since Mr. Gotohell didn't talk he had to go with what you're talking about
>>82943100
Experience and patience, anon.
>>82943670
and with those two things, man can complete any RPG campaign.
Hello, my name is Zach Snyder. I have a simple plan: crashing DCEU. WIth no survivors.
>>82942760
>small
>>82936508
Why the hell did HYDRA have a tape of that in the first place? Or that there even was a camera there? You'd think they'd want to destroy any evidence of that shit happening.
>>82942196
You'd think Bucky would be good enough to crash it somewhere that wasn't next to the camera, or at least shoot it out at the beginning.
>>82935053
you are one dumbass faggot, too stupid to understand a Marvel movie? pretty fucking shortbus retarded, I hope you read every comment here and got mad but you can't do anything about it.
>>82935053
>>82935060
He did not plan the the Crossbones thing, Wanda's mistake, or the Sokovia Accords. He just took advantage of them happening.
>>82935053
>>82935060
You've missed the point.
He adapted his plan according to the changing circumstance. He did not know in advance, he just adapted his plan to whatever transpired.
Same as Loki in the first Thor movie, his plan evolves in tandem with events.
>>82936508
because if we aknowlage that comic characters do the same shit that we demonize their movie counterparts for then we can't use the movie versions actions to make strawman baitposts
>>82942760
What are you talking about, Scott had the biggest scene out of them all.
>>82943833
And man has completed every RPG campaign ever made.
>>82935053
Also, Zemo isn't Hydra. If he was, he wouldn't have to interrogate the Soviet Hydra.
On the other hand, he was a Sokovian black ops dude, so he wasn't exactly a wholesome person.
THE DYSFUNCTIONALERS
Tony distrusts Cap
Clint hates/distrusts Tony
Wanda hates/distrusts Tony
Tony fears/is confused by Wanda
Scott distrusts Tony
Sam distrusts Tony
Rhodey hates/distrusts Cap
Vision is confused as fuck
Nat, Spidey, and T'challa the only ones with no beef on their salad.
The Avengers were like Sega; they destroyed themselves, the Accords were the 32X.
>>82946651
"Captain, do you know that I have the patience to grind for experience? On Phantasy Star Online, I killed so many Rappy's...each kill an incremental step toward greater strength. My experience and patience is such that I laugh in the face of Dark Souls, Captain, while you can't even get past the Taurus Demon."
>>82947317
Why does Rhodey have so much beef with Cap anyway?
>>82942951
Zemo wasn't wearing a disguise when he went to Bucky. Marvel didn't want to confuse audience members
>>82942506
Why does Zemo delete all the audio files on his phone?
>comicbabies defending capeshit
wow
>>82947751
To free up space for his Cap porn.
Why did Zemo say Bucky's instruction words in English when they are said in Russian at the beginning of the movie?
>>82947751
You reached your goal and sated your desire for revenge, but your family is still dead. What else is there to live for?
>>82947517
because Rhodey is required to do like his progenitor.
same with Sam.
the darkies can't disagree with their white masters.
>>82947751
>Why does Zemo delete all the audio files on his phone?
because those were his mementos that were pushing him to destroy the Avengers. since he fulfilled his goal, he no longer needed them as he no longer had a purpose.
>>82947847
Did you even watch the movie
Experience...Patience...Coco Pops...with these a man can achieve anything.
>>82948010
why is his mouth so fucking tiny
>>82935053
Crossbones was hired byMODOK
>>82947834
He could just enact it by triggering Bucky to rape him, film it, and rub it in their faces after the fact.
>>82947847
???
He says them in Russian
>>82948229
lol trolled u
how did zemo know bucky killed the starks
>>82948330
He didn't. All he knew was that Hydra was doing something on the night of their death due to all the leaked files at the end of TWS and that's why he kept asking everyone throughout the movie.
He only went to Siberia to actually get the files/video. It was just by coincidence that he could enact his plan at the same time.
>>82948330
They said he was able to deencrypt the files, didn't you pay attention?
What did tchalla mean by saying you almost killed the wrong man to zemo?
>>82948418
but then how would he have gotten away at the siberia base if iron man and cap werent fighting each other and only intent capturing him
>>82948561
tell that to >>82948418
>>82948595
didnt he say "i almost killed the wrong man" ? refering to how he almost killed bucky
>>82948330
He knew that Hydra killed the Starks, not that Bucky did. We don't know if the decrypted files noted that the Winter Soldier was involved or not, but they definitely said that much - but that's all he really needed.
Because he also knew Bucky was one of Hydra's top assassins, and could POSSIBLY have done it. He may well have originally intended to have simply put that doubt in Tony's mind and let him do the rest. The fact that he actually WAS the assassin was a bonus.
That said, the fact that he was specifically looking for the guy in charge of the Winter Soldier meant he almost certainly knew that Bucky was connected to the murder, if not the murderer himself.
>>82948653
Ahh now it makes sense thanks
>>82948046
he wiggles his jaw at super-speed whenever someone takes his picture so people don't figure out he's really Superman.
>>82948667
BUCKY INSTRUCTION MANUAL
"Congratulations on activating this Bucky Winter Soldier. We recommend you read the quickstart guide if you are a first-timer.
Like all WS products Bucky comes with a trigger word keyset to prevent theft. Do no use trigger words recklessly or speak them in a gay voice as this can trigger malfunction...
>>82948992
Remember to water and feed your Bucky every day for proper maintenance.
>>82947751
>Why does Zemo delete all the audio files on his phone?
That was strictly for the audience;s benefit; to let them know that he truly was preparing to die. He was going to let Black Panther kill him, one assumes because he does feel guilty about killing BP's dad. But once he realised that wasn't happening he went and try to kill himself. His own death was always part of the plan, if he wanted to survive he would have escaped far earlier.
>>82938061
>>82942951
>zemo was looking for the cap-knock offs
>vhs happened to be there
The VHS tape was the entire point anon. You fell for the story deception after the movie explained it to you.
>>82935226
He'd be even cuter with T'Challa's kingly dick up his ass.
>>82938370
Nah, he says he will be forced to use other, bloodier methods to get what he wants. I think he had already partially formulated and started preparing for other contingencies.
>>82948010
Yes, he says them in English. Even his wife speaks in English in her phone message to him.
>>82950713
>Yes, he says them in English.
No, he doesn't. They even show him practicing them in Russian.
>>82936378
Thanks for the link on this, Anon. Listening to it now. Really good stuff.
>>82947887
Well, Sam actually questioned Steve a little bit. Rhodey is just nothing but a yes man.
>>82950883
Which is what makes it even stranger.
>>82950900
>lol i troll u
>>82935053
He wasn't a hydra guy you faggot. He was a normal special forces soldier.
>>82935053
>>82935060
Well, when you put it like that his plan does not making any senses and it's very questionable of how the hell can he accomplished all that shit, lol.
>>82935104
>>82935168
Zemo was the one who hire crossbone.
>>82951054
No he wasn't.
He didn't want to kill anyone unnecessarily. Until Hydra dude gave him no choice. He wouldn't use a chemical agent as plan a.
>>82951054
shut up retard
>>82951089
Oh, then who hire the guy? It's very clear someone hire this dude to do the job.
>>82951123
Anybody.
It didn't matter.
It just wasn't Zemo.
>>82951156
Dude, that's a stupid answer. Oh, well, you can denied it all you want.
жeлaниe
>>82951336
Oh hey guys what's happening in this thre-
>>82951237
>at least I have an answer!
Are you a creationist?
>the intelligence of dc fans
>>82951237
>Dude, that's a stupid answer. Oh, well, you can denied it all you want.
Your mistake is assuming everything bad that happens in a film has to be caused by the main villain.
Things DON'T have to all be connected. The world spins and doesn't need to wait for Zemo to do something. For all intent and purposes the Crossbones incident was unrelated to Zemo, all it did was to trigger the Accords. There are terror attacks somewhere in the world every month, most of them not related to ech other or have some solo mastermind. Zemo is just one guy and wasn't going to waste resources micromanaging everything. The Accords was something that was always going to happen, Zemo didn't cause it because it didn't need Zemo to exist.
In fact, the writers said that in theory they could have wrote the film with no Zemo at all. That the plot could be Tony finding out Bucky killed his parents, then s spending the next two hours trying to kill the guy. It would be a horrible film but it could be done. Zemo was added to make the film better, and that was why he didn't matermind any more than the bare minimum that he needed to do.
>OP makes a bunch of stupid assumptions like that Zemo hired Crossbones to make his dumb thread work
>gets called out
>'You cant prove he didnt!'
>>82951441
The point in check the film and the crossbones scene imply it was Zemo.
>the writers said that in theory they could have wrote the film with no Zemo at all
Yes and the film will be much better that way, son.
>>82951612
Zemo did not want unnecessary deaths
His Plan A was go to Hydra guy.
Everything after was Plan B.
Crossbones was never part of his plan.
>>82951450
>I-it was not Zemo and don't know shit but it was not him
>t-the writer said he can make a film without Zemo
>called out with prove
Yeah, more like pube.
Crossbones was the equivalent of Batroc in the previous film. First act villain who kickstarts plot to reveal other unrelated, hiding villain.
>>82951647
>I don't want an unnecessary death
>Yup, let's bomb them.
Very convincing.
>>82951787
They were necessary. They were a sacrifice he needed to make.
He needed to make Bucky enemy number 1 so he can be found.
>>82951787
Movie literally tells you he killed them because he wanted Bucky found.
OP, you're really dumb.
>>82935053
A lot of loyalty for a guy who hates Captain America. Was being convoluted a part of your plan? Why don't you wear the mask? If I put it on you, would it hurt?
Was getting caught part of your plan?
>>82951733
Actually he wasn't like Batroc at all. Because Batroc was explicitly, unambiguously later stated to be hired by Nick Fury. He serves as an example that if a character in the movie hired Crossbones, the movie would have made it explicit.
>>82951733
Oh, so Nick Fury hired Crossbones so he could get the biological weapon to use against M.O.D.O.K. That makes sense.
>>82951612
>The point in check the film and the crossbones scene imply it was Zemo.
No it doesn't
>>82952294
So that's what he's up to.
>>82935053
>>82935060
Zemo could've been the best part, his motivations were ok enough but plan was convoluted as fuck.
>>82952454
>find vhs tape
>show it to iron man
If that Hydra asshole just told him where to find the tape, he wouldn't have needed to activate Bucky at all. Showing Iron Man the tape would have been the start of Tony trying to kill Bucky and therefore Cap in the original plan. It's because Zemo had to go with plan B and activate Bucky that the in-fighting happened ahead of schedule and it all might seem more convoluted than Zemo's plan really is.
