What are the best drinks to drink expired?
>>7579884
This is not an expiration date.
It's a "We guarantee that it is palatable until that date if stored at correct temperature range"-Date.
Meat on the other hand has a use-by-Date. ("We gurantee it won't make you sick until this day IF YOU STORE IT AT THE CORRECT TEMPERATURE RANGE"-Date).
That is, if you are able to ensure an uninterrupted cold chain.
>>7579884
Why are people so fucking stupid about this? Microbiology and epidemiology are quite complicated. I assure you the milk man cannot predict how healthy his milk germs are to tell you exactly when milk will reach some kind of imaginary threshold where x % of pathogens are available and will distress x % of immune systems at a certain date. When you factor in any kind of refrigeration and especially the variation in refrigeration temperatures, how long/often the milk is allowed to reach room temperature, how many fuckers drink straight from the bottle and backwash, the fitness of of the person drinking it... you're talking +/- 90 days from the expiration date accuracy. And much, much longer if the milk spent time frozen or was boiled. Even more time for canned foods... it's ridiculous to pretend to put out an exact date 3 years from now that the food will go bad. "Of course, this can of corn will sprout wings and fly away on Monday 30-July 2019 ( +/- 3 years)". So would that mean +/- 3 years from 31-July, or at midnight on 29-July? And what if one of those are a leap year? Do completely dead bacteria have calendars so they know to set their bacterial alarm clocks to defy the laws of nature and resurrect themselves a week or two before the day that you just happen to open the can (since that is their life span).
>>7580606
>hurr hurr it's complicated look how smart I am
The point of an expiration date on milk is that stores need to be able to know when to throw it out after it's been removed from the cow, put in bottles, shipped to the store, and put on shelves.
Sure I guess we could use interpretive dance to communicate this information, but I dunno why you fucking neckbeards think that since you watched every episode of Penn & Teller's Bullshit!(tm) it means everyone is stupid except you.
>>7579904
This.
When I worked at UDF we pulled milk past the use date and used them to make milkshakes.
>>7580620
>it means everyone is stupid except you.
We think that because this same question gets asked over and over and over again. And it even gets asked for foods that never spoil, such as salt. Ergo, the logical conclusion is that consumers are idiots.
>>7580620
Dat inferiority complex.
It's okay to not understand something, anon, that means you have an opportunity to improve yourself.
>>7580627
>the only logical conclusion is that reality is a social construct MAAAAN, why can't all the sheeple just get it that it's about IMMUNITY maaaan, like, germs totally can't hurt you unless you use the antibacterial soap
Sure buddy
People who die from drinking expired milk in countries advanced enough to even print expiration dates on the carts? = 0
People who die from smoking tobacco even though they print right on the package "This shit will kill your dumb ass if you use it" = ~450,000.
Why so picky about which warning label you want to read?
I also love how every time someone tosses their cookies, they always blame the last meal, especially if it's ethnic. Most of that probably tracks back to scratching your ass without washing your hands, or sucking off someone's seldom-washed crotch rot. I have *never* *ever* heard anyone come back and say, "Ah crap... My swamp ass was itching and instead of just going to bathroom to wipe, i scratched it through my underwear... maybe THAT'S how I contaminated myself?" Millions of people all over the world die every year from diarrhea because of bad water and hygiene, i.e. no water to wash your hands with... it certainly ain't from drinking 3 week old refrigerated milk.
>>7580634
Nobody is claiming that load of greentext, anon.
The real point here is: Why don't people realize that it's impossible to predict when foods go bad in advance? Therefore any sort of "date" printed on the food is at best a recommendation, and at worse totally meaningless?
Of fucking course food can do bad and make you sick. But the date isn't very useful in determining that because it relies on so many assumptions that many of them are likely not to be true?
>>7580643
>it's impossible to predict when foods will go bad
But it is. You gather data on the food as it was distributed to grocery stores, and you analyze that data. Sometimes you'll find that the supply chain in some areas has issues maintaining cold, hence why expiration dates in NYC are shorter, because the milk goes bad sooner. Maybe it won't, but the data found that it usually does.
Why wouldn't you think it's possible? Because you listened to George Carlin or some such comedian, who made a joke about midnight on the expiration date, and you managed to get anally aggravated over person who only exists in a stand up comic joke?
>>7580662
>Why wouldn't you think it's possible?
Simple. Because of exactly the process you described--it relies on average predictions rather than actually detecting whether or not the food has gone bad.
The dates are based on assumptions regarding how the milk (or whatever) will be stored. It might be adjusted for regional differences in temperature, etc, but there are always exceptions: what if the stockboy at the supermarket is taking a smoke break and leaves the milk out in the heat for a while? What if Soccer Mom keeps her groceries in the back of the car for a long time while she waits to pick up junior for soccer practice? What if Lazy McStoner leaves the milk out on the counter for three hours before he remembers it and puts it back in the fridge? Or what if Friendly Housewife's fridge is set slightly warmer than the national average? All of those things affect how long the milk will last, but the scientists coming up with the dates to be printed in advance have no way of predicting that. So, one of two things must be true:
-the date is artificially padded to be "on the safe side" to account for things like that
or
-food goes bad faster than the date depending on exceptions to perfect storage.
In either case the date is inaccurate and therefore misleading to consumers.
It would make much more sense to design packaging that can detect signs of spoilage and thus would indicate whether or not the food actually has spoiled as opposed to attempting the impossible task of actually predicting when food will go bad with zero knowledge of how the product will be treated once it leaves the plant where the date is printed.
>>7580678
You're just restating what's already been said. Do you honestly think that you've made some amazing discovery here? You sound like the people who argued that seatbelts are shit because there's no guarantee, maybe you'll be in that type of crash where you would have survived if you had been ejected from the vehicle.
Also I was wrong, it was Seinfeld
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qguDBXXOsWw
Good job, you internalized a Seinfeld joke and actually got mad about it. Now head over to /n/ and rage about black boxes.
>>7580620
you make no sense fucky.
So instead of an explanation, you prefer bro science, second guessing why groceries use printed text instead of just bar coding shit (they hide the coupon savings amount in the small text on coupons all the time.. the cashier knows how much is being saved, and the consumer does not realize their coupon is worth $0.09).
And penn & teller? neckbeard? topped off with a tired memepic?
Yes, your debate method is sufficient, for the pre-Dark Ages I suppose.
>>7580692
Bro science? How is it bros science to say "based on our field research we've found that the majority of milk purchased from stores no longer smells nice when X days have passed since bottling, therefore let's use X date so that consumers aren't consistently grossed out by our brand and start buying the other brand"
Do you honestly think dairy companies have no incentive to gather data on quality as it relates to freshness?
>>7580688
>Do you honestly think that you've made some amazing discovery here?
Of course not, and I never claimed I did. I simply pointed out that the dates are misleading because they are not perfectly accurate.
>>seatbelts
What does that have to do with anything? You don't need a date to tell you if food is bad, you can simply use your senses.
>>Seinfeld
Sorry, can't say I've watched a single second of that show.
>>7580705
>How is it bros science
Because it's a generalization: "the majority" rather than exact.
It also solves a non-extant problem: Consumers can already tell when the milk goes bad by smelling it. A date is redundant at best and misleading at worst.
>>7580712
>You don't need a date to tell you if food is bad, you can simply use your senses.
Right, let's just have grocery stock boys rip open every bottle of milk on shelves and sniff them one by one.
>Sorry, can't say I've watched a single second of that show.
The show is named after an actual person name Jerry Seinfeld, it's a stand up coming routine. But if it makes you feel better I don't own a television either. Or a microwave.
>>7580719
>It also solves a non-extant problem: Consumers can already tell when the milk goes bad by smelling it.
What country do you live in? Where I live, it's considered really bad etiquette to open a container of something before purchasing it. It's something trashy people do. And your bar code idea is fucking stupid, talk about fixing what isn't broken.
Whats wrong with you people?
Shelf life is given to a product based on a series of micro tests across a number of products. These are usually done (for chilled goods) at <5C for about 6 days and then at 8C for the rest of the shelflife to take into account change in refrigeration temperature from arriving in a shop. Its also usually left in a warmer environment on this change date to emulate abuse from taking the product home.
The product is then given a shelf life with a couple days before the micro results start showing spoilage bacteria. Its still safe but after that point its more likely to generate complaints from consumers
>>7580719
Holy fuck are you legitimately saying that food should not have a sell by date? Go die fuckhole.
>>7580722
>Right, let's just have grocery stock boys rip open every bottle of milk on shelves and sniff them one by one.
I was't arguing that this wasn't useful for the store. I was suggesting it was misleading to the customer. The end-user.
>stand up comedy
Yeah, I know who Sienfeld is. Annoying as fuck. I don't understand why people watch him, but to each his own I guess.
>TV, microwave
I have both, anon. What does that have to do with anything. Why do you keep bringing up things that have nothing to do with the discussion? Strawmanning and/or diverting attention from the facts?
>>7580727
>Whats wrong with you people?
They never crawl out of the basement so it never occurred to them that the entire universe doesn't revolve around them and their weird little phobias and personality quirks.
>how DARE they put a date on this milk, they're trying to tell me they know what's good for me?
>>7580728
Correct.
I think the dates are bad because they seem to prevent people from actually using their senses and/or their brain and thus come to rely on something that is highly inaccurate instead.
Yesterday on this board some fuckwit was talking about how he threw away his balsamic vinegar because it was past the sell-by date. Think about that for a moment.
>>7580738
It's also useful for the consumer though. Stores sometimes make mistakes, stuff doesn't get rotated properly. Trying to hide this information by converting it into a cryptic code that you need a special scanner to read is just dumb.
>>7580739
>>how DARE they put a date on this milk, they're trying to tell me they know what's good for me?
Who said anything about that?
It's more like:
-I smelled the milk and it's fine
-but the date says it's bad
-I guess I better throw it out
The consequences of that are:
1) Anon is being taught NOT to trust his senses, which is idiotic.
2) Anon just threw out perfectly good milk.
It's wasteful, cultivates ignorance, and it can get people sick if it happens in the opposite way:
-hmm, this steak smells off
-but the date says it's OK, let's eat it!
-food poisoning
>>7580743
Do you actually think everyone is as retarded as you are when it comes to dated items?
Tell me, tardo, what is your solution for people without a sense of smell, poor eyesight, etc.? Do they just deserve to not eat safe food in your crippled mind?
>>7580743
Wow, the very idea that someone on the internet might have done something that doesn't conform perfectly to common sense makes my blood boil. Rather than using date codes which has worked since the agricultural revolution, stores should employ armies of sniffer dogs to tell if stock has been rotated properly and everyone should autistically examine each and every food product they purchase, before putting it in the basket, otherwise my weird personality disorder might erupt into a full fledged tantrum.
>>7580745
this
>>7580745
>t's also useful for the consumer though.
But it's NOT useful for the consumer because it's inaccurate. The consumer already has their senses to rely on, which are much more accurate than a pre-printed date estimate.
>>7579884
Any response other than "non-pasteurized cider" is false.
>>7580762
So you would propose ripping open every container of every perishable food at the store, because you have a personality disorder stemming from spending too much time on the internet?
>>7580751
>Do you actually think everyone is as retarded as you are when it comes to dated items?
No, I think that people who rely on their senses are good at non-dated items while the people who rely on the dates are not. I just gave you an example of why I think that--the vinegar point mentioned on this very board. You have to be some special breed of retard to think that vinegar can ever go bad, especially one that is aged for years and years on purpose!
>>what is your solution for people without a sense of smell
Those people need to enlist the help of others. Even with dates on packages they still need the assistance of someone else as foods can and do go bad before their dates.
>>7580771
>Those people need to enlist the help of others.
You need to stop wasting precious oxygen.
>>7580753
But date codes don't work. I have had food go bad well before the date on the package, and I have also had foods that keep well past the date on the package. We've had dates for decades and people still get food poisioning. So, no, they don't work".
>>stock has been rotated
I already pointed out I was discussing the consumer, not the store. I think that codes for stockkeeping in shops make perfect sense. But they are misleading to the consumer because they cannot account for what happens to the food between the market and when they get eaten.
>>7580771
>Those people need to enlist the help of others.
>I don't think you should be allowed to eat without help because I'm a neurotic failure and think expiration dates are a grand conspiracy against me!
>>7580779
>I have had food go bad well before the date on the package
Didn't you just get done complaining that sheeple are too stupid to know what date codes are for?
Do YOU know what date codes are for?
It's a rhetorical question, because you don't.
Maybe it's time for you to consider the possibility that if everyone else has one opinion, and you have another, that it might not be because you're a special unique genius, as you've told yourself.
>>7580777
I second this motion
>>7580785
Are you implying that people--especially those with a medical condition--blindly trust those dates without checking?
>hmm, this steak smells off
>but the date says it's OK, let's eat it!
>food poisoning
>>7580762
c'mon now
>>7580792
>Didn't you just get done complaining that sheeple are too stupid to know what date codes are for?
Yes exactly.
>>what date codes are for
What their intended purpose is is irrelevant because the sheeple misunderstand them and end up blindly trusting them and thus getting sick and/or wasting perfectly good food.
As I am stating for the third time now: they make perfect sense for the retailer, but do not make sense for the end-user. The retailer can use codes, the end-user ought to use their senses.
>>Maybe it's time for you to consider the possibility that if everyone else has one opinion, and you have another
I'm well aware that everyone has their own opinion, anon. I'm hoping to change that by explaining how and why the codes are misleading to consumers.
>>genius
Who said anything about that, anon? It doesn't take a genius to realize the codes are inaccurate. I'm sure everyone has experienced that. So once you've realized the codes aren't accurate, why rely on them as a consumer?
>>7580809
This idea you have that people blindly trust dates when their food smells rotten is literally retarded, because fucking nobody does it outside of your information-hating fantasies.
>>7580839
>So once you've realized the codes aren't accurate, why rely on them as a consumer?
You tell me. You're the one arguing against the status quo.
Tell me, genius: if I want to avoid accidentally purchasing milk that wasn't correctly rotated by the store employees, how would you propose I do that?
>>7580844
Are you ignoring the context here, anon? Someone asked what about people who had compromised senses due to a medical condition. If someone can't smell that the food has gone bad due to illness then why wouldn't they trust the date?
>>7580849
>Tell me, genius: if I want to avoid accidentally purchasing milk that wasn't correctly rotated by the store employees, how would you propose I do that?
You wouldn't. You'd buy milk at the store trusting that it was properly rotated via a code system that wasn't visible to consumers.
If the milk was bad then you'd take it back and return it.
Or, you could buy the milk under the status quo, and then pay zero attention to the date once you walk out the store.
The problems I am trying to fight are:
-people throwing out food that's actually good just because the date says to
-people eating food that's actually bad just because the date says it's still good
>>7580856
So that's why you consistently claim people blindly trust dates even when it's obviously off? Fucking crank that impaired brain of yours out of park and realize people aren't as retarded as you.
>>7580880
>realize people aren't as retarded as you.
I'm not the fuckwit who threw away his vinegar because it was past the sell-by date, anon.
The whole reason I am on this diatribe is because I see people throwing away perfectly good food because of an arbitrary date. They are the retards, no I.
>>7580875
>You'd buy milk at the store trusting that it was properly rotated via a code system that wasn't visible to consumers.
So let me get this straight. People who know what date codes are for (i.e. most of us, not including you) should have to suffer because people who don't know what they're for (i.e., you) are too stupid to be allowed to live outside the group home for the developmentally disabled.
Got it.
Normietip: there is no store that doesn't make mistakes. Even the most expensive, awesome store ever, makes mistakes.
>>7580901
>People who know what date codes are for (i.e. most of us, not including you
See, this is where I disagree. Many people don't know what the codes are for, and they throw away good food because of it. Removing the codes forces those people to reply on their senses instead, fixing the problem.
>>Even the most expensive, awesome store ever, makes mistakes.
Yep. I agree. that's why it's retarded to blindly trust dates, because if the store made a mistake with handling the product the date is no longer accurate. That's exactly WHY I am opposed to them.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, it makes much more sense to have packaging which can actually detect the presence of spoilage and can warn the customer.
>>7580750
>It's wasteful, cultivates ignorance, and it can get people sick if it happens in the opposite way:
Only idiots. Much like yourself I suppose.
>>7580913
>wouldn't it be great if someone invented a complicated, error-prone technology that would solve a problem that doesn't need solving?
You know what else would be great? If you, right now, chopped off your hands with an axe. That way we wouldn't have to read your mentally ill shitposting because all your typing would look like this:
>xcxvcm.,m,mkll;kmkkjllknjnjnjnj
>kkhjujujujugvgbfhbnjhnjmhnmjhmkmm,,..lknmjhnhbvfgvfvccdccfbtvfgyhbhnjuh
>>7580920
>Only idiots. Much like yourself I suppose.
Lots of people are idiots, anon.
And I'm not the one throwing away his vinegar because of the date.
>>problem that doesn't need solving?
It obviously needs solving since people such as yourself seem to want these dates.
>>complex error prone
Except it's not. You know how dessicant changes color when it's saturated with moisture? You know how pH paper changes color? This technology has existed for decades, and it is used in food packaging already. It makes much more sense to have packaging which actually detects spoilage rather than relying on often inaccurate assumptions.
>>shitposting
Given the insult you just posted it seems that you're the one resorting to that. Why can't we have a proper conversation without you derailing it?
>>7580921
>complicated, error-prone technology that would solve a problem that doesn't need solving?
Kinda like a sell-by date, right?
>>7580899
Wah, someone threw something not bad away that literally means everybody in the world is stupid like me and takes the date the store sets to pull the item from the shelf as adamant god for when to eat something!!!!
Good think most people aren't mentally diseased like you, so your "idea" will never take off.
There's some high tier trolling going on ITT
Haven't seen anything at this level since the Indian guy with the food truck that gave him chicken by accident
Bump for drama
>>7580987
God damn, I laughed too hard at his insistence that he was right no matter what. Whatever happened to him?
A majority of food that's near expiration date at my shopping centers go to food banks.
For me personally:
>Food that is dry ingredients (Flower, sugar, spices etc) are fine for awhile as long as it is stored in a decent place away from bugs, etc. Usually several years. If it starts to clump or stick together real bad, or massively out of date, then I throw out.
>Can items I am a little lax with. Typically as long as it is within a year or so of the expiration date I am Ok with it. Any later then no.
>Frozen items I typically go by freezer burn and how long they have been in there. More then 6 months, then no.
>Fridge items depends. Condiments usually a few years, heavily processed meats usually a month or so, milk usually a week or two if it is opened (A month if it isn't). Vegetables and fruits usually no more then 1-2 weeks.
>>7580606
t. unemployed bio major
>>7580606
Oh.
But what are the best drinks to drink expired, though?
>>7582261
He stupidly thought that the bureaucracy in the US would be any less indifferent than it was in his come country. He was most likely very wrong.
>>7579884
Anything that isnt opened milk. They usually get it pretty spot on with milk. Always worth a sniff and a look inside if in doubt. Everything else tends to be edible past its dates by weeks if not months.
>>7580940
>I was insulated from the problem by an existing system, therefore the problem isn't real and let's make a radical change because I'm hysterical and stupid
Tell us about the vaccines, Jenny
>>7580606
sure there is a range but it definitely isn't +/-90 on milk. you would have to eat it with a spoon.
Black Booster whisky
>>7580762
>I'd rather be completely exact and perfect than accept any slight form of margin of error.
>I want to be exact in all my assumptions even though food is based mainly on generalizations and generally accepted times and temperatures
>if I'm going to buy milk I'm going to get angry when they have a date of when it generally will go bad and since it's not possible to be exact currently I'd rather have nothing at all.
>all informed estimations are bad because they aren't exact.
Sometimes it's ok do have an estimation, you don't cook a steak at the exact same time every single time, you don't read "oh, it says thirty minutes at 350 degrees, that means they want me to do it exactly"
No, it's a fucking flexible estimation.
Expiration dates aren't supposed to be used as a BE ALL END ALL of dates.
It's a fucking general estimation.
You act like "OH, THEY WANT YOU TO THROW IT OUT AT THIS EXACT DATE"
No, they fucking dont, that's supposed to be used as a fucking baseline.
My fanny is troubled.
>>7579884
Orange juice. It goes slightly fizzy.
>>7580606
>simple question gets a paragraph full of obnoxious wankery
kek, you'd fit in on /sci/
>>7584466
>best before date
>on whisky
>>7579884
pepsi blue
