they are so expensive, and weird. pigs sniff for them? like an animal specifically can find these things?
weird. but i am curious. what do they taste like?
>>7874036
Like a meatier, earthier mushroom. Good on the right dish.
>>7874036
black truffle is overrated as fuck..
the truffle game is so fucked that it's almost like the illegal drug trade. you have bulk black truffle from china being smuggled in through customs that cost 600/lb but taste like garbage (even though you can charge like 20-40% more for a dish if it's listed as having black truffle), while the GOOD shit such as the oregon black truffle costs $900+ a lb and actually has quite a bit of flavor.
the oregon varieties usually have this super heavy, almost comparable to the "nose-feel" of freshly ground coffee.. it doesn't smell like coffee, but it's a very heavy and pungent aroma when you smell them. in my experience, oregon black truffle usually smells like musty blueberries and freshly tilled soil, with notes of that indescribable smell you can only get from a truffle.
black truffles are the most overrated thing in cooking. they're not really a flavor cheat code, so adding them to a bad dish would never be enough to make the dish a good one, and on a dish that's already good, they're seen as overkill or a crutch.
white truffle is a whole different beast, but still, it's a meme.
truffles are a meme.
>>7874036
they don't use pigs anymore... pigs eat to much from them, if you are not quick enough , and try to take them out of the mouth of a 300kg raging pig.. no thanks
they train dogs... a good truffle dog is worth thousands
you have to try fresh authentic perigord (black) or alba (white) during truffle season ( nov-jan) to really know what the "real stuff" is... canned truffles, China truffle ( aka summer truffle) and 99% of the truffle oils (is chemical synthetic ) on market are garbage
>>7874052
>oregon black truffle
didn't know that ... but they find "truffles" everywhere now...
>>7874061
are those varieties from only italy, or where from?
like i said, oregon black truffle is really nice (still overrated, as all truffle is), but i've never heard of any white truffle varieties growing in north america.
>>7874066
>are those varieties from only italy,
perigord is French truffle 1a quality, around 3000-5000 €/kg
Provence -truffle is a bit cheaper but close in quality
alba is Italian white truffle around 7000-11000€/kg (cheaper is the one from albanie)
price are depending if you buy in bulk for restaurants or in a deli shop
>>7874065
http://www.oregonblacktruffles.com/inseason.html
they're good. not as good as the other mushrooms we get up in the PNW (morelles, chanterelles, oyster, black trumpet, hen of the woods, etc) esp not for the price but they are nice and they have great marbling/density and flavor.
pic related, i'm in washington state and we've been getting these guys lately for a decent price.
>>7874071
that's fucking nuts.. such a meme.
here, it's like $90 for a 40-50 gram A grade oregon black truffle. grade, as it is here, is dependent upon marbling/density/outside consistency/size.
you can get a pound of a bunch of smaller truffles for a better price than a pound of 40-60 gram guys and they will be the same quality, just one is virtually unusable if your intent is to shave them.
can a home cook in the US come upon an actual authentic truffle or are they all reserved for michelin-starred restaurants
pls respond
>>7874072
Thanks
the French variety is : " Tuber melanosporum"
and the Italian: "Tuber magnatum Pico"
>>7874080
shit, i forgot about the porcinis and hedgehogs..
like i said, by and large, truffles are the most underwhelming of what we have to work with here in the pacific northwest US. i can tell a high grade black truffle from a low grade one by simply holding it/squeezing it/smelling it, but they never come around in the quantity and price point to make them anything more than a novelty (except when used in VERY specific purposes).
where you from, famalam?
>>7874077
Oregon truffle seams more to be a "Summer truffle" then a "melanosporum"... can't say.. never tasted it... never saw it in europe
for comparison: when you open a box with a single fresh white truffle you can smell it in the whole house, so intensive the smell is... you use maybe 1-2 gr for one person
>>7874089
they have a website.. just ask them
>>7874086
France, amd worked in a few Michelin stared restaurants (I know.......)
>>7874089
in the US, you will probably have to get the number of a purveyor.. go to a restaurant that uses fresh truffle on their dishes and ask idf you can throw down on their next purchase. otherwise, idk how the public gets them.
>>7874090
they're nice. super musty, bigtime blueberry/berry and heavy fungus/earthy nose, but not a ton of actual flavor. it's an obvious umami injection into any dish but personally, as somebody who cooks for a living, a dish should be able to stand on its own without the addition of truffle (aside from the few dishes people make that are specialized truffle dishes).
do you feel the same way about the varieties of truffle you work with?
>>7874097
i work in a restaurant that opened last september and whose chef/owner was a semifinalist for a james beard award this past year (after only being open 4 months), in case you were wondering about credentials to continue this convo. respect tho, i hope michelin makes its way up here soon
>>7874109
>do you feel the same way about the varieties of truffle you work with?
no, here truffle is a dish by its own... it's so overwhelming that you don't need other ingredients on the dish..
classically just a bit warm pasta, risotto, poached egg or a ravilo, etc
because the heat develop the aroma even more...
to much truffle on a dish is overkill, and that's a problem desu, you have more creative possibilities with morels, porcinis, chanterelles etc...
in most restaurants you just order plain pasta ( with a bit cream sauce) and the truffle is shaped directly in front of you at the table, you said stop if you think it's enough... the truffle is weighted in front of you before and after the shaping so you know how much gramm you buyer... at 10-20€/gramm you pay around 30-50€ for your pasta dish in a fancy restaurant
>>7874119
>shaved into something being sauteed (whether it's a sauce, reduction, gastrique, hash, mire poix, roux, or whatever).
no never do this with fresh truffle!! that kill the truffle
we use the canned black truffles to make the sauce for "tournedos Rossini" ( with sauted foie gras and topped with fresh black trufffe)
>>7874139
i think oregon truffle and italian/french truffle are probably two different things with different uses, going by what you've been saying.
the oregon truffles are very underwhelming raw. they look impressive and expensive, but don't add much to the dish.. sauteed or heated to release those aromatics, however, is the best way to use the ones we get here i think.
different ingredients, different uses.. you're gonna have to trust me on this one, my friend!
>>7874143
>different ingredients, different uses.. you're gonna have to trust me on this one, my friend!
I know... but most people here don't and then they try to compare apples with pears or basil with parsley...
eating fresh black winter truffle in a little town in south France in a bistro with plastic tableware and chabby chic charm ( mashed potatoes, tranche of sauted four gras, black truffle and reduction of demi glace with port wine and lamb lettuce at the side) was on of the most impressive dinners I had... and bit so expensive since the patron was searching the truffles in his own backyard
>>7874151
that sounds absolutely wonderful.. like the entire dish was designed as a vessel for the truffle. the fois almost sounds overkill at that point but i'm sure it was great.
any pics of dishes you've done? pic related for me; how do you feel about it as somebody who has worked in michelin ranked kitchens?
>>7874166
looks good, but can't really judge from.the picture, a bit "dry" maybe...
when we do a new dish we always try to implement contrasts
hot / cold
crispy / smooth
sweet / sour
mild / intensive
etc
not overkill the plate with too much gimmicks / tastes ( Girardet a 3-star chef said : never more then 3-4 principal rates in a dish)
basically that's it
>>7874166
>the foie almost sounds overkill
one of the most "decadent" classical French truffle dish is a whole truffle enveloped in 1 cm of fresh goose foie gras all around and that backed in butter puffpastry, served with a black truffle sauce ... foie and truffle is a classical combo since hundreds of years
around twenty post here and no hurrduurr-truffle is garbage-macdonald is king -troll ? America still asleep?
>>7874194
what do you mean by "principal rates"?
and cool; we do contrasts like hot/cold and especially texture very well i think.
the dish is kimchi wrapped in blanched cabbage leaf and tossed in the oven in a pan with kimchi juice/butter/lemon, a piece of white sturgeon that's been sous vide to rare in duck fat, and salsify that's been poached in oil and fried to order in a rice flour dredge and rolled in honey/fin herbs. the sauce is just the kimchi juice reduced with butter/lemon juice/salt into an emulsion.
>>7874200
i'm the PNW fag discussing oregon truffles and i would honestly rather eat a mcdouble dipped in mcdon's sweet and sour sauce than eat overpriced truffle..
it's a culinary masterpiece.
>>7874036
Umami
>>7874202
>what do you mean by "principal rates"?
sorry: tastes ( autocorrect fail)
dish sounds good, would eat
>>7874204
no worries I enjoy a good burger to..
but never ever mcD is a good burger.. after the last time I eat there (2-3years ago) I said never again...
there is a little hole in the wall burger place close to me who make great burger... local bakery make the buns, homemade sauces and salsa, meat for the patties from local beef , patties made in front of you by the order
I've had truffle on a simple mushroom pasta dish and it just added a meaty mushroom flavour, I guess it's expensive because it's rare and enjoyable but it won't nesecaraly explode your taste buds
white Alba truffle (trifola d'Alba Madonna) has an extremely pleasant, distinct and intensive taste. Once you had real white truffles you'll never forget that taste.
If you buy cheap black truffle on the other hand you just wasted a bit / a whole lot of money. Even if you buy decent black truffle (like Perigord) it is not worth it imho.
>>7874036
For a second there, I though that was a fudge bomb.
(I made some of those with some pitted dates, walnuts and coco powder in a nutribullet earlier, then rolled them in some dessicated coconut. Tasty and easy to make)
>truffles used to cost practically nothing
>WW1 tore up the vast truffle fields in France that people harvested for hundreds of years
>now no large scale industrial truffle supply exists
>we're forever cucked
thanks obama
>>7874065
"Truffle" is just an overall term for ascomycete tuber-type fungi. Various species grow all over the world, really all you need is oak trees.
To that effect, the truffle market is a racket. We've had large scale truffle-farming technology since the turn of the 20th century. WW1-2 ended up destroying a lot of the farms and killing the farmers and it became more profitable afterwards to keep european production small, artisanal, and inflated in price.
>>7874666
No, truffles were always expensive but around that time someone figured out how to actually farm them and the price dropped dramatically. During one of the world wars his farms were destroyed and his technique lost. It would probably be easy now to figure out what he did but its not in the interest of anyone in Big Fungi to figure it out.
>>7874745
This kind of reminds me of those guys who tried to reverse-engineer the wasabi growing process and try to grow them in a colder climate.
One of these days I wouldn't be surprised if some little start up manages to figure out how to grow truffles properly again. If I could be done before it can be done again. The relevant info must be out there.
>>7874767
I think it's a different scenario. The techniques for farming wasabi are well known. The problem is that it's expensive because the plant is slow-growing and requires a massive amount of water. We know how to farm wasabi, it's just not economical because most people are happy to eat the imitation stuff.
On the other hand, we currently don't know how to farm truffles.
>>7874036
>Buy one of these
>The core is rotten
>The place I bought it from won't give me a refund
>>7874852
>On the other hand, we currently don't know how to farm truffles.
Absolutely incorrect. Truffle farming is commonplace.
>http://www.thetrufflespore.com/
>>7875178
>Truffle farming is commonplace.
Citation please? I fully admit I don't know much about that industry, but all I see on TV shows is talking about how they're impossible to farm despite all sorts of efforts in doing so.
>>7875201
It's common in Europe.
Read the article he posted.
>>7875178
>>http://www.thetrufflespore.com/
from the website:
"...A black truffle farm can take years before it starts to produce a single black truffle. Here in Spain thou, black truffles can usually be collected / harvested 5 - 7 years after planting your trees. Other plantations take a lot longer to produce black truffles or never produce any black truffles at all...."
"...Italian white truffle - Tuber magnatum. Regardless what any one says or what a newspaper might say, it hasn't been possible to inoculate a tree to produce the Italian white truffle. Even thou, people the world over are trying to successfully inoculate trees to produce the highly prized white truffle....."
sure we know how it works, and you can buy trees with truffle mycelium.. but its a bit like playing lotto ...
>tfw an Indian take out in my town used to sell 'truffles' which were literally just very burnt lumps of chicken coated in dried raita
>most townspeople saw right through it
>parents are retarded 'foodies' who don't actually know a thing about food or cooking
>they buy the truffles from the Indians once a week
>they pay $70 per 'truffle' usually buying 3
>they don't seem to notice they are being made fools of
>keep the truffles in the cabinet and not the fridge, so the meat in them quickly goes off
>they seem to think it is 'enhancing flavor'
>have it on everything
>spaghetti bolognaise with ground up 'truffle'
>milkshakes with 'truffle'
>tfw got sick several times because of this
>they blamed my 'weak immune system'
>meanwhile the Indian guy managed to buy a large house and retire early
fuck truffles and the scammers who sell them
>>7875317
what the fuck
>>7875163
kot
>>7875163
perhaps there was a sign that clearly stated the establishment's "no refunds for nerds" policy that you happened to miss?
>>7875317
>My parents are retards
>Fuck businessmen
No.
Also, is it /biz/ to farm truffles in a family 2 acre plot?
>>7875317
are your parents related?
like, before they got married?
>>7875317
>coated in dried raita
you know what raita is? ???
>>7874036
They taste really bad on their own but somehow if you grate a bit in some dishes it changes everything.
>>7875429
Or the "rot" is what truffles are supposed to look like inside.
>>7875445
Can be. It takes 5 to 10 years for a farm to produce truffles, and it may never produce any.
I heard a story about truffle scam.
It was a truffle hunter. Every week for the local truffle market, he would arrive early in the morning in his car with his dog and a bag, leave for the forest, and come back with 10 pounds of truffles. Every single week, his dog and him would find a ludicrous amount of truffles.
Of course, people checked, they were real truffles. It was a miracle of a dog. So people asked to buy the dog, or study it, he always refused. You don't mess with truffle in France, they take the thing religiously.
Until one day, a Parisian finally convinced him to sell the dog. The price was kept private, but it was probably in millions of francs (6.56 times less in euros.)
Turns out the guy brought frozen truffles to the hunt, just went for a nice walk in the forest while they thaw, went back to the village to show off his price, and went back home to place the truffles back in the freezer.
I suck at telling stories, it was probably in A Year in Provence by Peter Mayle, he's a better English writer than I am. (This book or one of the ones on Provence by the author.
>>7874061
Isnt the pig worth way less than the truffle? Why not kill it after it finds it?
>>7875621
no, retard.. trufflles are definitely NOT supposed to be rotten in any sense of the term.
there is LITERALLY.. and i mean
>L
>I
>T
>E
>R
>A
>L
>L
>Y
no chance of anybody selling me a fake truffle. did these people not handle or examine the goods before buying? did they not smell them? wasn't there one of the truffles cut in half to show the quality?
>>7874052
you better be a top-tier chef with a post like this, son.
>>7875621
that is a really clever scam though, I like it. simple yet very effective. the added dimension of not selling the dog for such a long time makes it even better imo.
9/10 would fall for
>>7875637
you're a special kind of retard, aren't you? this might be the dumbest post ive ever read on the cee kay
>>7875637
Truffles are expensive, but so are pigs. Plus how are you gonna go find more truffles later
>>7875644
why do you say that, anon?
like i was saying earlier in the thread, the black truffle we get here is better suited for sauteeing or grating onto things as opposed to the traditional slices.
oregon truffle doesn't fucking taste like anything
>>7875654
I thought truffles where really big and finding them was really hard?
>>7875663
Raising and training a single pig would cost much more than a single truffle.
>>7874052
>>the truffle game is so fucked
words I never expected to hear
>>7875665
Don't pigs find them on their own?
What's the point on raising and training them when you can stick a camera and GPS in the and release them in the wild?
>>7875621
i heart that story too... and it´s just that.. a story ( a good and funny one...)
>the truffles back in the freezer.
you can recognize if a truffle was frozen or not, and if the people checked them as you said, they would see it
>>7875676
Anon, I know you're on summer break, but surely there's better things you could be doing.
>>7875676
>Don't pigs find them on their own?
>What's the point on raising and training them when you can stick a camera and GPS in the and release them in the wild?
simple.. they eat them all...
dogs don´t eat truffles
>>7875681
But you didn't even answer the question?
>>7875685
Stick some sorth of remote killing mechanism and you are set?
>>7875693
so you would kill the pig just to find one truffle ( cost around 20-50$) when he can find a few kilos in day? ( few thousand $$$)
>>7874089
The only place I've seen truffles for sale IRL was at the HEB Central Market in Houston TX
>>7874738
>WW1-2 ended up destroying a lot of the farms and killing the farmers and it became more profitable afterwards to keep european production small, artisanal, and inflated in price.
source?
>>7875703
How about we put some mechanism that doesn't let him open his mouth?
>>7875727
sure... but ever tried to handle with a 250-300 kg raging pig?
dogs are:
friendly with humans
they like to play, for them it´s a game
have a great sense of smell
just want a little dog cracker as thanks
>>7875736
Make another mechanism that stops him from moving his legs?
>>7875751
maybe a cyborg-pig?
i went truffle hunting when i was in italy. we drove to a big forest in the countryside and met an old guy with his pet dog. ended up collecting about 18 truffles, which were split between the 5 of us. pretty cool experience
>>7875764
sounds nice where you from?
>>7875763
It's not hard just some muzzle that shuts on command and we have to figure out something for the legs
Any trusted sellers of truffles?
>>7875772
united states
>>7875819
so you tried oregon truffles? can you compare them with italian ones? i am sure that 95% here had never tasted the "real stuff"
>>7874052
>truffles are a meme.
No that's not true.
They're their own thing, and you can't say they're "like" anything just as you can't liken anything (except the closely related cousins) to lychee or pennyroyal.
>>7875824
I live in Oregon and often obtain Oregon truffles.
They're good, the white ones are my favorite, but the black ones are almost identical in flavor to *FRESH* European black truffles.
If you've only ever had canned truffles it's worth it to get them fresh every so often. They are potent so you don't need much, but it dries well when shaved. Makes you wonder why you usually find them canned. Probably they skim off the oil and can the boiled-out hulls as "truffles" wink wink.
ßß▲
▲ß▲
>>7875721
Read the rest of the thread, we've established this twice now
>>7876054
You can totally liken shit to lychee or rambutan. It's like a more gelatinous tropical grape.
>>7874036
This thread is really making want to buy a truffle online. Never had white, and although those seem to best they aren't in season.
What should I buy? How do I avoid getting a crap truffle? What should I use it in so that I don't waste it.
Truffles taste like shit and are overrated as fuck.
Absolute meme food.
>>7875786
Why have anything that shuts, just muzzle it from the get-go. Or, better yet, just beak it's jaw so it can't eat them anyways.
>>7875445
/biz/ here. You set the price at what the market can bear.
Fresh truffles are inelastic with the price decreasing as spoilage occurs.
That said taxes for 10 years on 2 acres would be varied across the states. but say on average 5k per year.
Plus the cost of oaks. Say 10 sq meters per oak. you fit about 800 trees there.
They come at about $50 a tree plus whatever it costs to spore them and plant them.
So about 100k above the price of land.
You wouldn't likely water an investment of this type except in emergencies.
You've got about 3 or 4 years of acorn farming in there to ameliorate emergency costs so we'll scratch both.
Then 10 years inflation. say a low 3%
a couple thousand dollar dogs and a kid to harvest.
You need about $150k to break even.
So at say $1000/lb
You nee 150lbs truffle
average truffle weights 30-60 grams. we'll say 50 for easy mode.
68 kg
You need a yield of approx 1360 truffles
accross 800 trees
1.7 truffles per tree.
Some trees will die, many will never yield. typical farming bullshit, found rotten etc...
Seems doable. but I just looked at a few truffle farm websites. they yield on average 25k per acre per season at a $500 price point.
I seriously discounted the ongoing maintanence and prepwork some of these Orchards had to do though.
It looks like a reasonable investment for someone looking for intergenerational wealth.
Apparently these suckers produce for about 30 years.
At which point you could probably sell the oaks for wood and replant.
If you've got a few hundred grand burning a whole in your pocket go ahead, just know its a long investment with a ton of upfront cost. but the yields over its lifetime seem spectacular if you buy in an ideal location weather and soil wise.
apparently some guy in Canada got the first farmed white perigord truffle a in the states.
>>7876939
like you have a clue
>>7876350
The flavor is completely unlike grapes though.
