Yo /ck/
So today I made Ragu a la Bolognese (with handmade fresh Tagliatelle) and I used the "official recipe" of Bologna, as per this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk6q80LZI-A
It calls for:
Olive oil and Butter
Onion
Carrot
Celery
Pancetta (couldn't find any so used Speck, which was actually very tasty)
Beef mince
Red wine
Beef broth with some tomato paste mixed in
Whole Milk
Salt and Pepper
The problem is, despite using top quality ingredients (all of them, except the veg and milk was premium-grade Italian stuff and meat from a top local butcher) it was bland. I know, you can sort of expect that just from the ingredient list (e.g no garlic), but I was surprised. This recipe supposedly came out because Ragu a la Bolognese is such a point of contention in Italy that the City of Bologna felt they had to have an "official one", indeed many of the people commenting on the video said it's great.
I guess I don't get it. Is Ragu a la Napolitana more exciting? What's your GOAT Ragu recipe?
How did you put it together? Explain your process a bit?
>>7852342
Started by rendering the speck (I cubed it first), then added the onions/carrots/celery till they were translucent. Added the beef and browned it (took about 20mins), then added the wine and after about 10 mins the tomato paste diluted in beef broth. I let it simmer on very low heat for an hour and a half, added the whole milk, cooked for another 20 minutes then took it. What do you think?
By the way, I was thinking that maybe slow-cooking it would help? Things tend to turn out great when I slow-cook them.
>>7852354
Forgot to mention I added the butter (it was this delicious white, Italian stuff) and the olive oil in with the onion/carrot/celery.
>>7852354
>>7852359
Sounds good, no idea why it was bland. I have used this official recipe, too, and I thought it was great.
As an afterthought, maybe you didnt' use enough salt? With the salty pancetta (or whatever substitute) and the salty broth it's not so easy to find the right amount of salt to get the dish right.
I have actually used too much salt in the past, and it tasted very intense.
Keys to getting max flavor out of a ragu...
1. Make sure everything gets caramelized. This includes your soffrito, and any meat you add. If you can't deglaze your pot with the wine, then you haven't caramelized properly.
2. Don't be afraid to use the wine. More wine adds more flavor, so don't be afraid to use it. Taste the meat after you add the wine and cook off the alcohol, and if the flavor isn't strong enough for you, add more.
3. Salt it at the end of the cook. Let it simmer until it gets to the consistency you want before you worry about salting it, as you can add too much if you do it before the simmer.
4. Use heavy cream instead of whole milk. It's fattening as fuck, but using cream at the end makes it absolutely decedent.
Very interesting points
>>7852401
I was actually warned of making it too salty due to the speck and beef broth and used almost no salt and rushed to add more towards the end because it just didn't taste at all salty after it had been cooking for a while. I'll be honest, I liked the dish, all I'm saying is that I didn't get the "depth of flavour" that people rave about etc.
>>7852413
Okay I definitely didn't camarelise the soffrito, in fact the only thing I did caramelise was the speck so you've certainly got a point on that one - there really wasn't much on the bottom of the pan to deglaze at all. I've also noticed from making red wine/beef stews before that red-wine = flavour and for some reason I forgot that this time. I only used about 250ml for about 700gr of meat. I'll follow the heavy cream tip as well, I don't care if it's fattening as long as it tastes good. I don't count this as a healthy recipe anyway lol.
One more thing that puzzled me. The official recipe calls for no herbs of any kind! No bouquet garni, parsley, anything. How could this be?
>>7852460
>no herbs of any kind!
>How could this be?
That's the point. Ragu alla bolognese is meant to have the original meat flavours come out, not to be covered up by any herbs or spices.
It's really the basic concept of Italian cuisine: Use a few quality ingredients that work well together and prepare them in a simple way that makes their original flavours shine.
>>7852507
I see. This seems to be a common theme around Mediterranean cuisine, Greece and Spain seem to follow it as well.
>>7852320
really i think the only mistake you've made is using speck instead of pancetta. pancetta is way more fat than speck, so when it melts it soaks all the other ingredients with flavor. Also yes, slow cooking really helps. Ragù it's meant to be cooked very slowly, i remember my grandma waking up early on sunday mornings to make ragù, it takes several hours. The woman in the video also states it, right after she pours the tomato sauce in she says it must cook for about 1h30 on a very low heat, adding some broth from time to time if the meat starts sticking onto the bottom of the pot.
Source: i'm italian
Another option is to just spice it the way YOU like it....
I like garlic.
I like basil.
I like rosemary.
When I make a ragu, I make it the way I like it, and not the way somebody else tells me I should.
>>7854087
Somebody arrest this man for expressing individualism through cooking!
>>7852354
You didn't brown the beef, you greyed it. It releases water and you boil the juices out. You brown ground beef by cooking it like steak, fast and hot, allowing the water to evaporate quickly and a nice maillard reaction to develop. Shouldn't take more than a minute or two.
>>7852320
I use a very similar recipe but I don't use any beef broth. I also use white white instead of red.
But it's pretty much never bland, it's always got this great tang to it.
>>7852507
Too many people think food has to be choked full of spices to be flavourful and it's just so ignorant and shows they have no idea about food and cooking.
Some of the most flavourful dishes use no spices at all. And to be honest a lot of dishes just go to obnoxious levels with their spices that it doesn't even blend well and all the bulk of the meal just becomes a vessel for the spice.
>>7854010
That makes sense. I noticed that fewer than half of the speck "cubes" had fat on them. With regards to slow-cooking, I think that next time I'll start the process in the pan and transfer to the slow-cooker for simmering for 3-4 hours.
>>7854087
I'll try it with those next time and see how it works. That's why I asked for GOAT recipes in OP, I fancy experimenting a little. I was thinking a bay leaf might be a nice addition. It tends to go well with beef stews.
>>7854097
Fuck you're right. I did that because the lady said "brown it for 20mins" and the only way to do it for that long is on a lower heat. But between what you and >>7852413 say, it appears that I was definitely cooking on too low a heat.
>>7854209
Look, I really like both types of foods but dishes without many spices in them require more attention/skill to turn out good. Spices tend to make mistakes less noticeable.
>>7854284
You might need to brown the beef in batches so you don't end up boiling it again, before adding it to the main pot. The majority of the meat should be touching the surface.
After doing that, adding more wine and seasoning more heavily, that might be all you need. It's also important to consider the type of wine you're using.
>>7854294
They also require good quality ingredients, which honestly can be difficult to find these days. Most supermarket meats and vegetables are largely flavorless.
>>7852320
>giallo zafferano
>traditional
i'm italian, literally giallo zafferano is plebbit-tier
also
>ragù
>pancetta
>>7854324
What would be a traditional bolognese recipe?
>>7854324
What's a good Italian cooking channel? I really like these guys https://www.youtube.com/user/laricettaperte but their Ragu was more or less the same as the giallo zafferano one.
I also like Mimmo Corcione. Any other suggestions? I've been looking for good Italian-cooking channels for a while now.
>>7854308
The meats I used were top quality stuff, but the veg was generic UK stuff and to be honest the fruit and veg here really blows it usually tastes of nothing. It's what I dislike the most about this country.
>>7854331
traditional recipe is just a meme in order to attract more people possible.
it doesn't exist an official recipe for ragù à la bolognese.
i suggest you to use only olive oil (no butter), don't use tomato paste (i don't even know precisely what really tomato paste is), and no milk (WTF!) and no pancetta.
>>7854352
This is tomato paste. Regarding the milk, every youtube recipe that didn't use milk had 100 comments underneath with Italians saying "il latte????" etc. as if its super important.
Do you only use one type of meat then? Why no pancetta?
>>7854351
Try with the mighty Giorgione (literally Big George) !!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n85edzbZLPk
>>7854363
Forgot my pic
>>7854352
>i don't even know precisely what really tomato paste is
Tomatoes cooked down into a paste, essentially. Usually they use so called "paste tomatoes" such as roma or san marzano. You don't really need tomato paste though as, obviously, you can just cook down fresh tomatoes yourself.
>>7854366
Noice, subscribed! What do you think of Mimmo?
His Neapolitan Ragu looks crazy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPF_umVxAwU
This is the first of many parts
>>7854363
>>7854368
ah okay, yes this tomato paste is ok. add color and flavour.
why no pancetta? the only quality of pancetta that belong to Emilia is pancetta piacentina. so i suppose this is the only acceptable pancetta, otherwise you can use prosciutto crudo.
milk and butter are two useless greasy elements, dunno why many italian going mad for this? maybe because one of the nicknames of Bologna is La Grassa, literally "the fat one".
>Do you only use one type of meat then?
you can use macinato of manzo, maiale
>>7854390
>macinato of manzo, maiale
So basically ground pork or ground beef? I use both in Chili con carne and they compliment each other quite nicely. I've got an Italian deli near my house so I'll ask and see if they have piacentina.
>maybe because one of the nicknames of Bologna is La Grassa, literally "the fat one"
I am aware of this meme. Usually the further North you go in a country the fattier the food becomes (this is true in Greece for sure, the mountain guys cook everything in butter, completely different to what you think Greek cooking is).
I never got this right. When do you add the milk? Before or after the wine?
>>7854398
>So basically ground pork or ground beef?
both
>>7854422
just before finishing, it adds to a silky texture. So just stir it in shortly bevore serving
I would also try adding chopped chicken livers (with the meat obvsly)
>>7854794
Oh yeah I remember reading that in a recipe. Apparently you're meant to sort of crush them rather than chop them.
>>7854422
It doesn't seem to matter.
>>7854352
You do use milk
I lived in bologna for a year when a student and also had about 6 months in Florence which does a similar ragu, so have good experience. This is how i make it
Pancetta fry this for a bit
Add soffritto into this oil etc and make sure you get a lot of colour and take your time this is really important bit
Add mince, you should mix imo pork and beef is what i use and what everyone recommends
(I season with salt and pepper a bit now before it fully browns, just me...)
Add milk now and do it slowly and cook it in so its like it wasn't there.
Now add wine, you used red afaik the traditional is white for this dish, get a good amount yeh.
NOW! Yes there is no necessary spice! However one of my housemates would add bayleaf and I still do this. Also Nutmeg is very common afaik in this dish so you can add this !
Now add some tomato i usually add a small mix of passata and puree.
Cook for a while make sure it gets nice and reduced so lots of flavour. (I sometimes add a slight extra wine and balance with sugar and salt if i fuck up which i often do).
Last is the Pasta, this is the most important. Good ragu in Italy will be accompanied with a very well made pasta so find something worthwhile.
Ignore muh heritage Americans and Italians who probably don't cook and live in like Milan or something so aren't familiar, milk is no meme, white wine probs superior and yes there is an accepted standard and recipe for bolognese.
>>7854967
I've found white wine definitely gets a lot more flavour out of it. Which is probably surprising since red is usually stronger and people always assume you put red with red meat.
>>7854209
>Some of the most flavourful dishes use no spices at all.
Nobody's asking for British cooking advice, Nigel.
>>7854967
>student
Dropped.
The purpose of the milk is to counteract the acidity of the tomato paste, which is why it is the last ingredient added.
>>7854967
>>7855013
>White wine
OP here, yeah I just went with red wine because of the video and because red wine with beef seems like a natural combo. I'll try it your way next. What sort of pork do you use?
>>7855164
The Italian in my local deli said that it's added to tenderise the meat, so maybe there is a point in adding it in the beginning? I added it in last so my sauce turned out kinda creamy.
>>7855164
I've never seen a recipe which added a lot of milk last, almost always it's reduced down with the rest of the sauce or with the meat. Occasionally a recipe would have a little cream at the end.
I put in as much milk as stock, adding that much without reducing it would ruin it.
>>7855396
I've never seen a recipe where milk is used for anything other than the last hour, or so, of the simmer.
Do what you think is best.
>>7852320
Made this last night, followed the quantities almost exactly except I didnt measure oil/butter and added a bit more wine/stock. I also removed the veg after it had softened and turned the heat up to max. When the pot was smoking I put in the mince and pancetta. I cooked this until the residual water in the meat had cooked out and then left the meat to brown further. Veg added back to pot and recipe followed as shown in the video.
I probably ended up cooking the ragu for around 2.5 hours but would probably leave it longer next time to further soften the meat. I found the dish absolutely delicious, it really is all about that browned meat flavour. This will now be my go to recipe for spag bog.
>>7855926
Thats actually a cool idea with the veg and meat might try that.
>>7855553
>>7855164
In theory the milk is to aid the meat against the acidity of the wine not the tomato and in this case to keep the meat sweet etc... This is why in all recipe it is not added last. The tomato is a smaller ingredient and if you have messed up the balance of flavour with this then there are certainly better ways to remove the acidic levels without simply pouring some milk in which is a bit stupid desu.
The milk isn't a "balancer" its an integral part of forming the flavour of the sauce
>>7855317
Yes exactly I think that the mince has a notably more pleasant texture also.
For Pork I'm literally just going 50/50 in mince with the beef.
>>7855926
I like the idea of removing the veg to brown the meat properly but how come you didn't start with the pancetta? I thought the whole point of the pancetta was to use its fat to cook everything (along with the olive oil and butter)
>>7852413
DO NOT USE CREAM
this fucks up the entire dish
just don't do it
>>7854352
>it doesn't exist an official recipe for ragù à la bolognese.
this is close enough:
http://www.accademiaitalianacucina.it/en/content/rag%C3%B9-alla-bolognese
>>7858520
inb4 that buttblasted eye-talian explains that it's not how he did it and he therefore doesn't recognize it
>>7852320
I'm a poorfag, but want to try this. What are your thoughts on replacing pancetta with American style bacon and omitting the red wine? I know there is really no substitute for red wine, unless I get the less heavily taxed non-alcoholic wine, but that's probably more of a waste, because I'm going to be less inclined to finish the bottle off! I'm thinking the bacon won't be a killer, but just making sure it's still going to be worth it without the wine. Thanks.
>>7859353
I read somewhere that people used smoked bacon to make it, I'm sure Italians would have a fit but either normal or smoked bacon (if you're feeling adventurous) should be okay. By the way, sometimes supermarkets have cheap pancetta don't write it off, ask the staff first. About the wine it depends on how you look at it: you can get a cheap ass 2$ Mini bottle of cooking wine enough for this recipe or a 8$ wine that you can drink afterwards.
>>7857498
Basically I wanted to stay as true to the recipe as possible. Also you dont need extra oil as the butter and olive oil were more than enough to saute the veg.
Maybe you could render the pancetta to begin with but honestly the stuff I had wasnt hugely fatty to begin with. You might get some small increase in flavour by rendering it, but honestly I found by adding it when I did I still got a great subtle salty/cured flavour that was well balanced with everything else.
