So I finally bit the bullet and bought a carbon steel knife in Japan.
It's a stainless clad AS takeda gyuto.
I was just curious to ask what brand of whetstone I should get (king, etc) and if I should also get a rust remover and knife sharpening guide to go along with it?
Also knife thread
>>7844101
Ritzy. Are you a line cook too?
I was thinking of getting a Takeda myself but I hear they can bend and that makes me nervous.
Here's my humble little assortment for work.
>>7844101
Also to answer your question, King is a tried and true brand in japan so you can't go with with a 1000 or 2000 stone for general maintainence. You don't need a rust remover, a scotch brite works just fine. Sharpening guide is up to you.
thoughts on ceramic? my friends swear by them as "sharp and never dulls" but i feel underwhelmed when i use them, and fear they may have been swindled.
>>7844186
There is a reason that no professional chef worth two shits uses ceramic
They are shit. They are difficult to sharpen, chip easy and can shatter if you drop them.
>>7844220
my thoughts exactly, i feel bad that my friends are stuck using inferior tools just because they "believe" them to be better.
>>7844101
Welcome to Club Takeda. One of the best knives I own. For maintenance, if you don't intend to do sashimi, 1000/2000 combi, naniwa or king are quality. Shapton is ok from what I hear. You can look for cheap medium naturals as well if you're into it.
The shiny bit is the entire bevel, so sharpening is not so difficult. Press the bevel flat against the stone and slowly work back and forth while you get the feel for it.
>>7844144
I'm a line cook. In regards to bending, one of my friends likes to test flex on knives. So when I showed my brand new 600$ knife he responded by trying to bend it. It kept its shape and he got a slap on the head.
In response to rust for the both of you. It hasn't been a problem for me. Just wipe and keep a dry towel. If you rest the knife on your board, any damp spots between the knife edge might develop slight rust, but it will easily wipe off if you keep on it. As far as reacting with onions and stuff, it's been minimal to non-existent. One of my prep items is finely dicing 10 onions, like ultra fine. It's fun to use and very quick, there is very minor darkening, basically, loses a shade.
>>7844282
I've noticed some knives have more signifigant reactions.
My Yoshihiro never really rusted or discolored onions despite being carbon steel but when I got a Tojiro shirogami it was almost a struggle to get a patina and not rust on the damn thing. Onions turned slightly brownish too.
Anyone have any recs for a oyster shucker? Working at a raw bar now, and using the in-house shuckers is hit-or-miss.
Hey knife guys,
I have a stainless steel chef's knife from JC Penney (Cooks brand). How do I sharpen/hone it so I don't lop off a finger? Before you say anything, I know it's shitty, but it's what I could afford. Any help would be appreciated.
>>7844220
They are also far sharper than metal knives
>>7846138
Lately I've been recommending this video for basic sharpening advice. It's quite solid advice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozZF2EgnYm0
He has more full on sharpening videos, but I found this one first.
What knife you have isn't as important as maintenance. You can use any knife effectively if you know how to sharpen. Once again, this blacksmith has a video of shaving with a sharpened spoon. Of course, he also sells knives worth thousands of dollars.
>>7844300
This is something that I've noticed as well. I've noticed that different makers have more or less reactivity. I assume it has something to do with their heat treatments. Could be coating, but then again, my nakiri and my new takeda are both kuro-ochi finish and have very different reactivity levels.
Any suggestions for knife covers?
Saya, Magnetic edge guard, plastic, etc?
Sayas are good but can break easily if you try and carry em around. They are also expensive and can be difficult to find ones that fit.
Yoshihiro makes good and beautiful ones. They mostly fit knives with the same type of profile as the ones they sell though so if your blade has a lot of knuckle clearance they prob wont fit.
Magnetic edge guards will magnetize your blades so that is something to consider. Probably fine though
Victorinox bladesafe is the best for plastic covers. Knifeguards suck and will break a lot of the time.
11" Shun Premier and a 9" Messermeister Oliva. Damn lovely knives.
Retired the Messermeister to my girlfriend while I use the Shun at work. Slices through brisket, pig neck, belly, etc like a dream.
Eyeing a nakiri for fun, though. They're too pretty, and seem practical. And, you know, I just really want one.
>>7847195
Nakiri's are nice since they function similarly to chinese cleavers(i.e easy to scoop stuff up with the blade)
How was the Oliva? It looked nice but messers have been nothing short of shit in my experience.
>>7847201
It got me through the first year and a half of my apprenticeship really well. Taught me to respect my blade, how to maintain it (and how not to). But that's more of a personal evaluation.
It's a little harder to maintain than the Shun, but it's not too troublesome. Held a nice edge. A little too short for my needs. But a good all rounder.
>>7847116
My anus
>>7844282
post pics of some food you have cooked pls
>>7847195
after owning actual japanese knives i can say that shuns are kinda shit by comparison. but, it really depends on the sharpener.
>>7847256
I'm happy enough with it. Stands up to the work I put it through every night on the block. I'm sure there's better out there. But I stand by it happily.
>>7847259
it's true. i think that they hold edge better than a lot of other japanese knives i have. shuns are like wusthofs of the japanese world.
>>7846619
Thanks, I'll give him a look.
So I wanna get the girlfriend a nice kitchen set and I want it to be really nice quality. /k/ poster here so I am aware of steels. How much should I pay and what brand should I get?
>>7848032
Fuck off faggot. I came here FROM /k/ to talk about this. There is a distinct difference between kitchen COOKING knives and other kind of knives like outdoor fixed blades and pocket knives. So please pull out your eyes with a rusty spoon newfag.
>>7848032
>what do knives have to do with cooking?!?!?!?!?!1
Don't you have a tendies thread to be shitposting in, kiddo?
>>7844101
>in Japan.
You went to japan ?
>>7848028
As a rule of thumb, most professional chefs will say to never ever get a knife block set as they are usually inferior quality
Assuming you are going to be sharpening and maintaining them for your girlfriend, You could mix and match a small set of japanese knives off chefknivestogo that looks good. They got a variety of fancy steel types that you can make a judgement call on. Most professionals favor VG10 or White Steel #1 for cooking.
Alternatively, just grab some wusthofs or shuns. They work fine for home cooks and would be considered qualify by many.
>>7848032
Knives are very much cooking related and a lot of industry chefs enjoy discussing their tools of the trade...Shit part of Masaharu Morimotos fame comes from his blade skill alone if that tells you the importance of them in the kitchen
So fuck off pleb
Any recommendations for whetstones?
I don't have the money to go natural.
Any suggestions for a good brand and if I should go with a two sided stone?
>>7848454
i bought the cheapest stones on amazon, they do well enough. got a 400/1000 and a 3000/6000 stone
Just the thread I was looking for.
I want to invest some free time improving my cooking, since I know just basic stuff, and I'll need some knives for that, since I have just the usual dull home shit that I can't stand using.
What are some good starter kits that I can find in EU (or get them shipped)?
Also, from my /out/ activities, I really prefer carbon steel, is it considered apropiate for cooking?
Thanks.
>>7848872
Well carbon steel is great in an indoor cooking area... I wouldn't suggest using it out camping and whatnot, since even a little humidity will completely rust your blade. Outdoors, imo stainless is king
all these Knives are over priced garbage. nothing can cut as straight or smooth as my pocket knife!
>>7849115
Gr8 b8 m8
just a home cook here, so i'm mostly curious to hear other people's responses. I've got a set of calphalons that I'll use a sharpening steel on once a month (at least the santokus, chef, or utility). After 4 years I'm pretty sure this can go on until I die. They stay sharp and when they aren't it takes a few minutes to resolve.
Re OP's whetstone, I don't know but for my bailey plane (woodworking) i use a diamond sharpener and those things get it wicked sharp very quickly. I wouldn't use a whetstone on an expensive (longish) blade for fear of nicking it, though professionals will and do so on the regular.
>>7849912
I was referencing the one fat neckbeard who said in a thread a couple months back that his pocket knife was tempered Damascus or something like that and he knew it was cuz he knew metallurgy. and that his pocket knife was better than professional cooking knives for cooking and then got all butt hurt and started posting webms if him slicing through paper. sorry you missed that thread. you must be a summerfag
>>7850177
I remember that thread, you save any webbums?
>>7849980
Diamond stones are not good for kitchen knives. They tend to not be available in fine enough grits, and leave deep scratches as they are significantly harder than steel. For culinary uses, diamond stones are used to flatten whetstones.
>>7848454
Find a good 1000/2000 combi. Something like this
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/megrst70.html
Any 2 from here. The Aotoshi for a finishing stone, and traditional 1000 will serve you just fine for home use. If you're a professional, these will do fine while you save for more durable stone
>>7848872
Tojiro is a great starter high carbon brand(it's not steel without carbon). Zakuri, kanehide, khotetsu would be the next step. After that point it becomes more personal preference. My own in the 200+ category are. Goko, Gesshin, Aritusugu, Moritaka, Takeda, Masakage Yuki, Glestain.
Another option is a CCK cleaver. Great knives, will do everything you need doing in a kitchen.
>>7850267
I just got a Shigeharu... Haven't taken it out for a spin yet.
>he's a knife smith in Kyoto, actually the shop has been in his family since the Kamakura period (mid 1100's).
>still makes knives
>definitely cheaper than Aritsugu for the same or better quality ($120-$200)
>i ended up getting one of his knives which is a gyuto/santoku hybrid (basically shaped like a gyuto but with the length of a santoku, which he said in broken English was the best fit for my hand)
>location wise it's near the Nijo castle
>>7848454
Don't listen to anyone who tells you you don't need a coarse stone
If you don't have the skills to use a coarse stone you don't have the skills for a fine one either, and every new knife needs the primary bevel set. No exceptions
>>7850201
I know someone did because I saw at least one webm reposted once. but I sadly did not save any
>>7846180
source? genuinely curious
>>7850267
>and leave deep scratches as they are significantly harder than steel.
That is true of any sharpening stone. If it wasn't significantly harder than the steel then it would be useless for sharpening purposes.
I agree with the rest of your points but that one was just absurd.
>>Glestain
Mah nigga. They make some great knives. 2nding the CCK recommendation as well.
Are Shuns shit or not?
I'm reading conflicting opinions.
I'm a home cook, who will stay a home cook. I just want something sharp as shit, that will last forever if I take care of it. I'll get some proper stones too.
As a home cool will I ever really notice an appreciable difference between Japanese or German steel? Someone recommended Wusthof but they seem similarly priced (amazon), and they don't seem they'd be as comfy in the hand.
>>7851404
>that will last forever if I take care of it.
That's most knives, to be honest. I have a shitty santoku in my kitchen. I bought it about 15 years ago because I was on a picnic with friends and we needed a knife, so I bought the cheapest one I could figuring it would be one of those "use it once and throw it away" scenarios. I paid $5 at an Asian supermarket; I have no idea what the brand is (No, it's not Kiwi). Since then it's seen all sorts of abuse: opening boxes, unskilled kitchen use, used directly on stone/ceramic with no cutting board, it's been through the dishwasher at least a thousand times (no, not an exaggeration). Yet despite all that, it holds an edge very well and the handle is still tight.
>>difference between Japanese and German
Yes, you will notice this.
The Japanese knives are usually lighter and thinner. The steel is harder and sharpened to a steeper angle. This makes them sharper, but also less durable. If you get a really high end Japanese knife you need to be careful how you use it, as unskilled use can chip the blade. (Sort of like how you shouldn't give the keys to a Ferrari to a beginning driver).
The German knives will be heavier and require more frequent sharpening but are more tolerant of abuse.
I'd say it's not a matter of one being better than the other, but more like they are different. I started learning with a French style Chef's knife. The blade shape is a little different than German but the steel is similar. What's nice about those is that you can take the same chef's knife and use it for both fine work and also for chopping through smallish bones. I started learning about Japanese knives later. By comparison, they slice like a goddamn laser beam. On the other hand, take most Japanese knives and chop chicken bones with it and you're probably going to chip it. The Japanese method is to have different knives for different jobs, whereas the French or German style is more of a "jack of all trades".
>>7851372
That's fair. The only time I've used diamond plates for sharpening, has been for repairs(low grits). I've found the deep scratches way too time consuming to take out once they are made. I should have elaborated the deep scratches are in comparison to scratches left by a composite synthetic stone. I'm not aware of any fine(1000+) diamond plates.
>Glestain
One of my favourite brands in stainless. When I need a "german" style knife it's what I use. I know it's Japanese, but the weight, balance and style is much more western.
I feel the need to warn people buying a Glestain though. The bevel is 90/10. If you need to consistently make straight up and down cuts, this knife will take some getting used to. I recently worked with a sushi guy who found out the hard way. The knife pulled hard at the bottom of his rolls leading to some wonky looking cuts.
>>7851404
It's not that they're shit, it's that you can find better quality for the price. If the shun classic 8inch chef's knife was 100$ as opposed to 180-200+ it would be a more recommended knife. However, they are a business trying to make money, and since most chefs know nothing about cutlery, they can sell what is basically a drop-forged german knife for almost double the price because it looks japanese and is made in a city of factories that is associated with knives.
From a professional standpoint. The handles tend to loosen within 2-3 years, obviously results may vary. The factory edge is very shallow for the price, although the steel is capable of taking sharper edges. The height and geometry is not ideal for my own personal preference, although I understand some people enjoy it.
What do you guys think of king?
Also pic of the Shigeharu knife I got. It's a 7inch gyuto/santoku (shape is a bit weird).
Anyone recommend a saya or edge protector to get for it?
>>7851404
The Shun composite tang construction looks fucking shit to me. I haven't seen any other reports of pic happening, still shit.
They do have full tang knives too though.
>>7851952
Ouch. The handle to tang, isn't sealed correctly... That rust...
![nishida-nakiri-19[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/zLkx8ob.png "nishida-nakiri-19[1].png")
Shun/Messermeister anon here. Just pulled the trigger on my nakiri.
Super excited. Just have to wait on that international shipping now.
>>7852499
That is sexy as fuck
Bamp
>>7851780
Very good value for money as far as stones go.
I use a Smith's triple stone and lanskeys honing oil for my Kramer. Works nice.
>>7853823
>Crazy expensive knife
>wal-mart tier stone
What an odd combination
>>7853830
People who buy Kramer don't really know what a good stone is
It's basically the trek of knives
Finally decided on my new knife. Kurosaki Shizuku - Nakiri.
Amazing blade. Should have committed long before now.
Stainless clad, powdered steel core, hammered finish, zebra wood handle.
>>7853830
If it's bad I just go.to sur la table honestly
>>7853895
So hard to choose a Nakiri. They all seem so amazing. I spent a solid couple of weeks before I pulled the trigger on the Nishida above.
Yours looks beautiful.
>>7853895
>Stainless clad, powdered steel core, hammered finish, zebra wood handle.
dudes on /ck/ talking about knives sound like Patrick Bateman and co. talking abut business cards.
>>7854019
That's the joke, Ellis was making fun of materialistic obsession over trivial nonsense
Also stainless clad a shit
>>7854019
It appears you don't know much, then. Stainless cladding & a different core is very important information. The wood of the handle and the finish are certainly Bateman-tier.
The fact that you colluded them all together tells me you don't know much about knives, but feel compelled to post anyway.
>>7851404
There's nothing wrong with Shun, it's just that nothing is ever new and obscure enough for knife neckbeards, and Shun was considered "high end" in like 2001 when the only other option was Global.
Then everyone thought the "it" knife was masamoto, then it was nenox, then it was aritsugu, then your knife was completely shit unless it was shigefusa, then someone discovered watanabe, then doi, and a bunch of others in between. I have no idea what's even considered 'cool' anymore and it's not worth keeping up. Shun is fine.
> I'll get some proper stones too.
I seriously would not bother with freehanding unless you want to go full neckbeard. Just get a modern infinitely variable jig system with some decent abrasives. The edgepro and some shapton glassstone inserts, for example. Everyone pretends freehanding is something everyone needs to learn but the reality is unless you're doing it on a daily basis (and you won't be unless you're working in a restaurant kitchen or sharpening knives for a living), you won't get enough practice to be anything better than mediocre at it. Yes, "that guy" who's reading this. Even you, but I can hear your labored breathing as you type up your 4 paragraph reply.
>>7853852
and they like to leave out the "by Zwilling JA Henckels" part
>>7855128
>Yes, "that guy" who's reading this. Even you
got pretty much all of this for free from a family member that works at williams sonoma. Only paid for the $15 chinese veg knife and cheap stone. Don't use the three on the left at all.
I'd like a nice boning knife, suggestions? I guess I could use the fillet knife instead if I had to.
Sup /ck/ pros
I've got a question about knife sharpening. I've got two knives I use most of the time, a 20cm or so Victorinox fibrox as it's cheap and we'll reviewed, and a smaller more paring knife (all I know is that it says sabatier and has been abused for 3 years and is holding up pretty well). As I'm only a home cook without huge aspirations atm these should cover me, but how do I sharpen them? I know I need a steel for honing but what about stones? I've seen recommendations in this thread for high end stuff for pro chefs, but what about you average Joe like me? And would I have/be able to get the skill to sharpen well? Apologies for the spoonfeeding request, I know I can Google it as well but I wanted to see what you guys thought as well
>>7856557
I disagree. I think people greatly overestimate the difficulty of using stones. Even being "mediocre" at using a stone freehand is plenty good enough for the average cook. The jig systems are overly complicated and quite expensive. Why bother with the expense or the hassle when a few passes on a stone will do the job perfectly well?
>>7853980
ffs dont go to Sur La Table they don't know what the fuck they're doing over there
Former coworker of mine had a mercer I bummed that was dull as shit so I told her to go get it sharpened
She took it there and it somehow came back duller and she was out $5.
Just find a good local sharpener or learn to do it yourself
>>7855128
>the reality is unless you're doing it on a daily basis (and you won't be unless you're working in a restaurant kitchen or sharpening knives for a living)
Unless you're a sushi chef or just plain crazy you probably won't be doing that daily working in a restaurant even.
Since >>7851404 is a homecook he could also just pay his local sharpener $5 once a year and be done with it. And I mean an actual sharpening business. Not fucking Sur La Table or some shit where they just run it through a pull sharpener.
>>7857028
you are completely, completely wrong
as i posted earlier in the thread i have dmt stones and using them is not simple or easy. i am an intelligent person who is very exacting with everything i do.
it is not easy whatsoever, and for most people we are talking about SHARPENING DULL KNIVES not maintaining an edge on sharp knives
>>7855147
I have JA Henckels knives from germany from the 70s. those are good, right? the chefs knife is heavy as a goddamn motherfucker
>>7857188
Yeah they're fine knives, a real kramer knife is not made by henckels though and can go for $10,000+
>>7857161
>pay his local sharpener
I would not advise this, 99% of those guys are using a dry power grinder, fine if you're using Dexters but the point of a shun is edge retention, $5 will turn your $100 knife into a $15 knife
The places that do it right (water cooled power grinders or water stones) charge a lot more than $5, you're better off getting an edge pro and doing it yourself
>>7857028
It won't do as good a job, I guarantee anyone saying they just started freehanding and claiming to get good results is cutting on the burr
Internet slang for this condition is "mount stupid"
>>7857171
>i have dmt stones and using them is not simple or easy.
What do you find difficult about them?
I learned to sharpen knives using a literal stone--not a sharpening stone, but a fucking rock I picked up off the ground--back when I was a kid in boy scouts. We were too poor to afford to buy a fancypants sharpener so I had to make do. If I--and I don't consider myself particularly intelligent or gifted--can learn to sharpen a knife to "shaving sharp" using a literal rock, then surely anyone can--especially these days with all sorts of online tutorials.
What do you find that's difficult or "not easy" about using your DMT stones? Honest question.
>>7857378
>It won't do as good a job
Oh, I agree with that 100%. The edge pro will certainly work better than a noob freehanding. But is that degree of "better" actually needed?
Fuck, my grandmother used to sharpen her knives using the bottom of a ceramic mug. It was plenty sharp enough to cut with. I'm talking practicality here, not gearfag-tier dickwaving.
>>7857384
there is no way to know whether you're using the correct angle so there is no way to know whether you're doing it right or making the knife worse.
"just eyeball 20 degrees" isn't good enough for people with analytical minds. I need a tool. You can't just eyeball 20 degrees.
>>7857384
>If I--and I don't consider myself particularly intelligent or gifted--can learn to sharpen a knife to "shaving sharp" using a literal rock
Not the DMT guy, but "shaving sharp" is a very poor measure of sharpening proficiency because it tells you nothing about the quality of the edge. It's easy to raise a huge ass burr on an otherwise shitty edge and take off some arm hairs but the cutting performance will go to shit very quickly compared to a proper edge. Once you take the blade past this superficially sharp condition, it won't actually seem all that sharp (and it isn't). It takes some skill to progressively bring the edge up to real shaving sharpness, and unless you're Murray Carter you're not going to get there without a progression of different grit levels
>>7857393
Keep in mind the context of the discussion here. We're not pro sushi chefs. It doesn't matter if the angle is 18 degrees or 22 degrees. It will cut up the food for your meal just fine.
>>isn't good enough for analtyical minds.
I beg to differ. I am very much an "analtyically minded" person, and that makes me realize that 20 degrees isn't some magic number. Why 20 instead of 19? Because 20 is nice and round? Surely you would realize that it doesn't make any practical difference. If I gave you two identical knives--one with a 20 degree bevel and the other with 15, I doubt you would be able to tell the difference doing normal cooking tasks.
>>You can't just eyeball 20 degrees
And you don't need to either.
>>7857391
>But is that degree of "better" actually needed?
Maybe, maybe not. My grandma is a fine cook and her knives are like butter knives
But the convo started with talk of shun knives, what a huge waste of money if you're going to scrape them on a mug regularly to raise enough burr to slash through one onion at a time before you scrape the mug some more
What does /ck/ think of this knife? It's sold by those 18th century cooks on youtube. It's cheap (~$60), but the description says its "high-carbon steel", but doesn't give any specifics. I really like the way it looks and when he uses it in the videos it looks really sharp (and I know that says nothing to how long they maintain the knifes between videos)
>>7853895
That's beautiful
>>7857411
>It doesn't matter if the angle is 18 degrees or 22 degrees
It matters more than you think
If you're holding either angle with superhuman consistency then sure, I might agree
But the angle has to be consistent with EVERY. SINGLE. STROKE . otherwise you're rolling that 17 degree edge, where it exists, and doing nothing to the 20 degree edge, where that exists
>>7857401
I'm not talking about raising a burr, I'm talking about actually developing a good edge. It's easy to feel for a burr and thereby correct your method to avoid producing one.
>>different grit levels
Agreed. And if you pick up a literal rock and look at it closely you will see that some parts of it are rougher than others.
Honestly, I'm not suggesting that OP sharpen his knives with a literal rock, but the point is that it is not very difficult to do it with a little observation on your part. Personally, I use Japanese waterstones for my sharpening purposes. But even that was rather educational. I bought 400, 1k, and 5k stones. I had budgeted for the famous Chosera 10K, but I was so satisfied with the results from the 5k alone I didn't bother to buy it. I use my knives for work, I need them to be practically sharp but I don't sperg out over going to crazy high grits, stropping with chromium oxide, etc. I am not knocking that for people's hobbies, but it's absurd to suggest that a home cook needs hundreds of dollars worth of sharpening gear.
>>7853895
I'm not crazy about the hammered finish but dat handle and dat steel. R2 is the only powdered steel I've heard of. Is that what yours is made of?
>>7857428
>It matters more than you think
I disagree. I own a lot of cooking knives, and whenever I buy a new type I try out as many as I can (borrowed from fellow cooks). I've compared different angles with nearly identical knives and while I can tell a difference it isn't enough to practically matter. To make an analogy, a Ferrari might be faster than a Corvette on paper, but given 99% of drivers they are both more than fast enough.
>>But the angle has to be consistent
Yes, I agree. What's hard about that? If you need feedback on consistency then the marker trick works just fine.
>>7857413
Gotta know the specific type of steel mang. Like the amount of tungsten etc
Also... Shigeharu anon. I ended up getting the 1000/6000 King KDS model.
>>7857457
Right? I think I'll just suck it up and find a better knife with known specs elsewhere.
>>7857440
>It's absurd to suggest that a home cook needs hundreds of dollars worth of sharpening gear.
And it's not absurd that they buy a $100+ knife to do a shitty job of keeping sharp?
>I'm totally not cutting with the burr trust me
I don't trust you. It's very easy to overestimate your own results unless you have some standard to compare them to. Yes, you can do a shit job and it's good enough for most people, but there are too many people on the internet claiming to be sharpening gurus (and that is exactly what you are claiming if you expect anyone to believe you're creating a legitimate shaving sharp edge with a rock you picked out of a river somewhere). Unless you're going to post SEM images of your edges at 3000x zoom, your claims are bullshit
If someone is going to freehand at home they should start with an 800 jis stone at the very finest and they probably never need to go beyond that because their skill level will never reach that point. And they're better off with a cheap, soft, $15 knife
>>7853823
You hurt my eyes. learn2photography
>>7857472
>And it's not absurd that they buy a $100+ knife to do a shitty job of keeping sharp?
Of course they ought to keep it sharp. But keeping it sharp doesn't require a $300 edge pro.
>>If someone is going to freehand at home they should start with an 800 jis stone at the very finest and they probably never need to go beyond that because their skill level will never reach that point. And they're better off with a cheap, soft, $15 knife
And I agree 100% with that.
>>7857413
Looks nice.
High carbon steel usually refers to non-stainless and googling Jeff White indeed uses that a lot. It has it's advantages, in that it's generally tougher at same hardness. Will generally not chip like VG10 blades do at the same hardness.
On the other hand, rust.
>>7857457
He has knives on Amazon where he says :
High carbon steel blade (ANSI 1095) hardened to Rockwell 59
Probably the same for this one.
>>7857489
There are knockoff edge pros out there for like $40, you can add a full set of boutique weeb stones and you're still under $100
Anyone with a half decent knife should have one unless you're one of those people who insists on making everything as complicated as humanly possible
I was that guy, then I came to my senses after spending one too many afternoons flattening my bench stones. I only use those for razors and trad Jap knives now
>>7856541
i just bought a 38 euro kombistone (european) with sharpening strap and polishing paste on amzon because this germen knife sharping guide had somne nice videos on youtube.
Tried it out with some crowbar-blunt old shitty industry catalogue knifes at work first.
First try and i could cut tomatoes with again like nothing.
So it is pretty easy, just takes like half an hour with your first trys.
Good investement and i will only get better. Brings any knife up to proffesional standards , no problem.
Might be different if i was a sushi chef and needed to do sashimi and shit, but then i would take a high quality knife anyways.
>>7844232
Ceramic knives ARE really sharp, but that's the only decent thing about them. There's absolutely no way to sharpen a ceramic knife when it gets dull, it needs to be completely replaced. It's fine if you're a shitty non-cook who only has to cut something twice a week, but professional cooks cut stuff hundreds of times a day, they need knives that can be sharpened as needed.
>>7857526
>There are knockoff edge pros out there for like $40
And that would be a much more reasonable suggestion. When I learned to sharpen with a damn rock a lot of others had the "lansky" sharpener. It works just like the edge pro but isn't quite as fancy. That would be a much more sound recommendation.
>>insists on making everything as complicated as humanly possible
Personally, that's what I feel about the edge pro or other jigs. By the time you're done assembling the jig I'd already be finished with the knife using a stone.
>>spending one too many afternoons flattening my bench stones
Good god, how many knives were you sharpening? Or maybe you had really soft stones? Flattening stones isn't something that needs to be done very often at all.
>>7857542
Kyocera has an electric sharpener for their ceramic knives.
>>7857542
>There's absolutely no way to sharpen a ceramic knife when it gets dull
Incorrect. You can sharpen them using a diamond stone, or using a so-called "green wheel" on a power grinder. Or you can send them to a sharpening service which has either of the above.
>>7857547
> It works just like the edge pro but isn't quite as fancy
No, it's not just like the edge pro. The angles are fixed, the arm is smaller and has less range, the stones are limited to what comes with the kit, and it's not as stiff. It also can't go below 17 degrees, so it's more suited for camping knives and such
It's similar in that it's a guided rod system but that's like saying a box cutter is like a lockback folder
>>7857472
you can literally feel the burr. As an absolute beginner.
Just use two sides of a reasonable kombistone and remove the burr with more careful side changin strokes when you made the edge. pill through a cork. strop on leather. ready. if you really are autistic get a magnifieng glass and look for yourself, but that is just ridiculous. you feel it.
>>7857547
Regarding the flattening, any water stone needs this from time to time. Even the really hard ones. I didn't need to do it until a few years of sharpening many knives, but it's a major pain in the ass once it's time. And you usually need to do it because they're not working as intended, which you get around to only once your knives aren't getting sharp. so double the annoyance
>>7857576
I said it WORKS like the edge pro, not that it is like the edge pro.
>>limited to what comes in the kit
And it's easy to epoxy one of your special weeb stones onto a stock lansky one if that's what you want. But c'mon now, are you really advocating that OP go full gearfag and buy special stones for his sharpener? I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that if it's your hobby, but surely that's not required for basic maintenance of an everyday kitchen knife.
>>7857586
>I didn't need to do it until a few years of sharpening many knives
Ah, that makes sense. I thought you were complaining about having to do it often.
I do mine about once every year. I use a DMT extra-coarse diamond plate; takes maybe 5 minutes per stone.
>>7857587
Well, yeah, just like any sharpener is similar in that it contains abrasives. But it's dumb to pay almost the same for old, worse technology. You don't NEED the weeb stones but you bought the shun, why cheap out and use aluminum oxide that only goes up to like 2k JIS when you bought a system capable of so much more?
CookinginRussia says Shun makes the best knives
>>7857599
>Well, yeah, just like any sharpener is similar in that it contains abrasives
It's more than that. It's a rod-based guide system with a clamp that holds the knife.
>> why cheap out
Because there's no need to go any higher. 2k is perfectly serviceable for a home cook. OP isn't Jiro or Morimoto, he doesn't need perfection.
>>7857609
He doesn't need the shun either, but he bought it on the premise that it's a better knife that can take and hold a finer edge
Once past dexter-tier you should either go all in, or not. It's an extra $40, what's the big deal anyway. We're talking like 4k not CrOx and kanayama autismo
>>7857561
Correction: there's no way to EASILY to sharpen them. They chip really easily in the sharpening process and can shatter. It's not worth the trouble to get ceramic if you're a professional cook
>muh over 10 mirrion times forded carbon steel form grorious nippon
why not use katana while you are at it?
>>7857656
>>7857656
Because an NTBHK papered katana costs a lot more than $100 and it's not actually as sharp as you think, because it's a weapon for cutting people, not a cooking knife for cutting food
>>7857671
It would also be awful for cooking due to the size, balance, and lack of knuckle clearance.
>>7857576
This is the most common one available now. The angles are not fixed and the bar is long enough that you can get a bit of extra range quite easily if you mount it on a board as on pic.
I think he put on some magnets too.
>>7857726
That's an edge pro clone, so I'm not sure what your point is
The discussion was whether a lansky was the same as an edge pro (or knockoff)
>>7857732
No, the discussion was whether or not a lansky "worked the same" as an edge pro--as in, a clamp with guide rods attached to the stones.
>>7857735
Are you lost? Posting an ep clone as "proof" that a lansky isn't fixed to specific angles? You're proving the opposite.
>>7857739
No post ID's here, best not to assume. He didn't post that pic ... I didn't grasp the flow of the discussion and posted the pic (was my first post in that discussion).
Any way, this seems the best cheap sharpener to me if you don't mind a small bit of modding.
>>7857601
He's wrong
>>7857739
>Are you lost?
Nope. I was the guy who first mentioned the lansky, and my claim was that it "worked the same" as an Edgepro. I was clarifying my point: That it WORKED similar, not that it WAS similar.
Of course there are differences between the two, but as far as the basics go they are pretty much the same: your knife gets held in a clamp and guide rods attached to the stones maintain a constant angle.
Why not just use angle guide for whetstones? It'll keep the angle constant so no chance to fuck up.
>>7854016
Yeah, been in the industry for 15 years, decided I should probably get some decent tools. Nothing wrong with my old messermeisters for day to day etc but something of this quality makes otherwise laborious tasks more enjoyable
>>7857444
It's R2. The finish is quite shallow & highly polished. Wasn't sold on it myself at first.
>>7854024
For the amount of use this will get the stainless clad will resist the more acidic reactions with onions etc. Last thing I want is to be pedantically cleaning and drying a knife during a busy service rather than sending out orders. Sure there are benefits to full carbon steel knives but the potential for reaction and the high humidity in my area were drawbacks I wasn't willing to deal with.
What do you own?
(Don't read this as argumentative I'm legitimately interested)
>>7857360
dumb question but what exactly does edge retention apply to
how often you can use it before it needs honing or before it needs sharpening?
>>7857028
Definitely a learning curve. How many of your chef buddies have "that guy". Usually some asian dude or neckbeard they get to sharpen their knives. I'm one of those neckbeards and I can tell you there have been moments I thought I was doing well, then noticed something was off and adjusted and adjusted and adjusted. For sure, basics are quite simple, especially at shallow angles. Once you get into higher end cutlery that use very high edges, the task becomes significantly more difficult. For the average home cook, your statement is entirely correct. For a professional trying to get to the next level of knives, it is very difficult. Think of the difficulty in first learning to make pasta, versus truly doing it consistently well. It can be as difficult or as easy as you want it to be.
>>7858993
Yes.
>>7857411
I understand your comment is directed at 95% of the boards population. But I actually am a pro sushi chef, in that I get paid to make sushi at a restaurant that has been voted top 3 for sushi in my west coast city for 6 years in a row. I try to seperate the advice I give to professionals from the advice I give to home cooks.
For me, I can feel the difference between a 20 degree edge(40 degrees inclusive) and what I normally use, which is 14 degrees inclusive(give or take). With that being said, one of the first lessons I learned is that individual skill is more important. One of my first chefs challenged me to a cucumber slicing competition. My first fancy knife versus him with a butter knife. He easily won and I cut myself. The moral being, skill is the most important factor, followed by maintenance, followed by the knife itself.
>>7857440
If you're a professional cook, 10k edge is completely unnecessary and actually quite counter productive. The 10k stone will make your edge too fine for basic cutting tasks, ie. shallots, onions, veg. 10k+ edges are intended for proteins and soft tissure. Hence why they are uncommon in the west and popular in Japan. Even the chinese don't bother with 10k stones because it's not useful for all around every day use. The edge you will produce will not last nearly as long as something from a 2k or 3k stone. If you look earlier in the thread during the Takeda discussion, it's important to note that Takeda knives, despite being 400-800$, are recommended to be finished with a 2k stone. This keeps them in prime condition for all around work, and gives extreme edge retention. The angle at which you sharpen provides the "laser" cutting performance.
>>7848032
You're a cheeky cunt I'll give you that m8
Congratulation on your knife, I hope it serves you well many years ahead.
I once bought a knife, some 15 years ago, for 10 bucks, it serves me well.
>>7853895
I've never seen a knife more beautiful
Bamp
