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Anyone have insights into getting into the pizza game?
Me and a buddy want to do an organic pizza eatery, where we grow our own veggies (tomatoes and toppings), and source out the cheese from a local farmer. I drew up some numbers, and if we sold ~ 50 pizzas a day, we'd break 100k income for the business. I'm an environmental engineer, he's a chemical engineer, and we're both pretty passionate about sustainable eating, so we figure this is a good way to introduce this sort of eating to people who don't even think about it.
Any tips and insight would help greatly. Thx
Bump :(
you'd probably be better off asking /biz/
>>7785366
I would but all biz is concerned about is money. I want to provide organic, healthy food (gonna have a salad bar too hopefully), at a price rivaling the big chains. I care mainly enough to make a return on investment, and to make a decent living. Not trying to get hella rich.
>>7785373
be careful, the restaurant industry has been known to make people billionaires overnight. I know you don't plan to get really rich, but it just might happen to you.
>>7785316
you're selling $2000 pizzas
>>7785380
I've contemplated it before, but if my restaurant is successful enough to where I have too much money that I don't know what to do with, I'll just open up more organic sustainable eateries. I want to use aquaponics to produce my veggies, which saves water and decentralizes power from big agriculture. If I do get stinking rich, it'll help the world too, not just me.
>>7785388
50 Pizzas x Avg $10 each X 365 days a year = $182,000
>>7785408
I would like the price point to rival that of Papa Johns and shit. I would rather people buy my pizza than that stuff. And because it's a sustainable eatery, I'd only have toppings of what I would grow. Aquaponics has pretty high yields, a good return on investment, and good quality produce, however you need to know how to run a system and it has high start up costs.
So basically toppings would be limited to stuff like Spinach, Kale, Chard, Eggplant, Squash, Peppers, Jalepenos, microgreens and stuff. Growing my own veggies would allow me to cut down on costs long run, and give myself flexibility.
I don't think meats are a necessary for my joint, but understand the appeal to the demographic i'm trying to reach.
>>7785316
Buy my vegatarian pizza crust idea
>>7785428
what is it exactly? That would help out if i'm able to grow it, especially since I'd have to buy my flower (hopefully grown sustainably but maybe not)
>>7785432
Cauliflower mainly
>>7785435
I'd be able to grow it, but the costs may outweigh the extra size system i'd need to solely use cauliflower crusts. I'd definitely offer it as an alternative though!
On a side note, if you co/ck/s haven't heard of aquaponics, I heavily recommend it.
Here's some single serve pizzas
>>7785424
You're not going to sell 50 pizzas a day without meats as an option. All big chains offer meats as standard. I certainly wouldn't enjoy a pizza without a meat topping if I were paying 10+ dollars for it.
>>7785444
What If i offered unlimited # of toppings for 10+. I'm trying to ween people off greasy, unhealthy,unsustainable food. Especially meats since that's a big source for CO2 emissions.
>>7785454
Doesn't matter how much kale you let me put on my pizza; if it has no meat, you can't compete
>>7785454
pizza is about grease, you don't get to decide what people want in business, that's not how it works
>>7785458
Truly you are not a fan of all foods. Organically grown herbs and veggies are imo > pepperoni or ground beef.
I'd consider adding meats, but only if it came from local butchers and weren't processed to hell.
>>7785464
I'm trying to change the game senpai. If I can obtain orgainic veggies and herbs on the cheap, I can make pizza in a healthier and just as tasty way (imo) for a lot less than what you'd find at a similar restaurant. Making tasty, healthy, and sustainable food accessible is the goal here.
>100k income
Great! So after expenses you'll only be losing two or three hundred thousand a year!
>>7785316
Have you ever worked in a kitchen? Do you really think you'll be able to grow all the vegetables your pizzeria is going to need?
>>7785502
Well considering I'm on 4chan, I don't take customer tastes too seriously. Half /ck/ threads are about junk food anyways. I was more looking for insight into how many pizzas a day small mom and pop stores sell, what sorts of ovens to avoid, stuff like that, not really on what I should put on my pizzas. I'm really adamant about growing the food I'll be selling.
>>7785515
The growing of the tomatoes will be the hardest, and maybe most costly part. Its possible with aquaponics and a good greenhouse to grow year round where i live.
Kitchen experience is limited, which is why I've chosen things like salad bar and pizza. I figure the pizza is down to our oven, ingredients, and level of prepping before hand. My buddy has helped in a kitchen a couple of summers though.
>>7785503
At 50 pizzas a day, I calculate $120k a year profit from pizzas. That doesn't include real estate, kitchen equipment, salary, or farm start up costs. However, a pizza oven, fridge, good prep space,and salad bar is all I'd really need. I'd like to keep costs on real estate down by starting small, and scaling up. Salary will only be split between two willing people. If anything we can always revert back to selling produce which is far more lucrative than this venture.
>>7785316
Will you be offering a Chicago Style option?
>>7785585
Probably not, since I don't want to become a meme shop.
>>7785459
If I remember right it was like 1.5 lbs for a 14 inch pizza. Rice the cauliflower, nuke it for 8 Minutes. If there's any moisture left get it out with a cheese rag. Mix it with an egg, a handful of mozzarella cheese, salt, pizza seasoning garlic salt, or what ever you like. Put it on wax paper about 1/8 thick.mold the crust to your liking and Put it in the oven at 400° till its done. Let cool or use immediatley.
>>7785604
Thanks! Will experiment with it, but I definitely don't think it could completely substitute the main pizza dough. That's a lot of greenhouse space the cauliflower would take up, especially at 1.5 lbs a pizza. However, I'd definitely add it as a special sub or an upcharge.
>>7785558
I really don't think you're adding up your costs. What's it going to cost to build an aquaponic greenhouse? To maintain all the parts that'll break down in it? What about utilities? Delivery for the things you can't grow yourself? Taxes?
>>7785644
Green house + system, i'd say max it'd be 30k (25k green house, 5k system). However, that's with traditional wood framing. I'm looking into hoop houses and the pros and cons there, however they are cheaper of the bat for sure.
I added overhead to the pizza profit margin, but other expenses would be running a 3000 GPH pump, and land for the greenhouse. The footprint would be under an acre, but I live in a city so i'd have to find a cheaper plot of land nearby (under 30 min drive hopefully). If anything, I can build it at my parents house an hour away, but I'd have to clear some trees first.
The thing is, with a greenhouse this size, I'd be pumping >100k heads of lettuce a year if I used it solely to grow that crop. I'm going to start off selling produce, then transition into an eatery.
The logical thing is to just be a farmer, as the ROI for the system is summer and spring, and then the rest of the lifetime will be for paying of the land, then it'll be steady income after that (minus power). However, I really want there to be a completely sustainable eatery based off aquaponics, seeing as there aren't any atm.
I have never heard of a more retatded business plan. I have 5+ years of experience in the pizza business, and I can say, with utter confidence, if you won't offer meat on your pizzas, your calculated costs are absolutely 100% wrong. There is NO WAY you will sell 50+ pizzas a day offering vegetarian pizzas. Literally. Unless you live in a heavily indian/ethnic area, it's impossible.
I'm sorry op, but not everyone is into the whole "sustainable" food deal, your costs will greatly outweigh the money you make. I could barely break 1000 profit on some days depending on the day, and with rent, electricity, and no corporate entity as a safety net, you're dead in the water man. Like unless the area you live in has alot of other places like this, it simply isn't feasible.
50 vegetarian pizzas a day is a lot. What city is this? If it isn't hipster medium-big city USA then pretty pointless.
>>7785316
>environmental engineer
>chemical engineer
Asking for business advice on 4Chan? I don't think so, retard.
>>7785316
please stop saying
>eatery
The simple answer is no, you will have a hard enough time running an organic pizza place, and with the rent of a large city you are not even remotely close to breakeven, not even including the farmingutopia you have in mind.
The best advice would be to start with something, rather than trying to do all at once.
You are interested in farming, try that first and sell your produce at to a store appreciating it or on the farmers market, if that goes well think bigger.
The most important things in pizzamaking arent the raw ingredients, sure good tomatoes are very important, but the oven, the dough, and the sauce are what makes a pizza stand out. If you have no clue about that, drop the idea, if you know your stuff, start with either farming or with buying the produce and making pizza
>>7785984
Well I actually live close to engineering based university (Georgia Tech), which has a ridiculously high amount of indian students. Atleast 25k students, I'd say at least 5k of which being Indian. A new indian buffet opened up 6 months ago and it's doing very well, though it does serve chicken. That being said, these international students spend a lot of money on college food (food court is pricey), and I could theoretically charge more for pizza, but I'd like to keep a lower price point. I know people aren't into sustainable eating, but that's why i'd like to open a pizza place, to GET people into it, mainly through superior taste at the same price.
I'm hoping to curtail rent initially by setting up shop in an existing place like a gas station or anywhere really. I'm also contemplating moving to a cheaper city to test the waters for such a market.
I'm assuming the biggest cost in making the pizza is the cheese, with sauce and veggies coming in 2nd, and dough last. Growing my own plants would definitely save money in the long run, and provide a side income by selling excess.
Again, I'm not looking to get rich off this, but more to prove proof of concept.
>>7785988
Atlanta, so not too into health foods.
>>7785991
Why wouldn't I ask a place where probable kitchen experienced people meet questions about a possible restaurant..
>>7785424
Youre trying to sell high volume to a narrow non-meat market. And youre trying to use expensive ingredients but selling dirt cheap like papa johns.
>>7786050
>taking a bait thread seriously.
>>7786027
Farming is indeed going to be my first step.
I foresee this taking up the next 2-3 yrs of my life before I really begin really thinking about a restaurant. My restaurant can only be as good as my farm, and it'll also serve as a fall back if this fails.
In the meantime, I figure I have 2-3 yrs to experiment in sauce making. Same with dough. If I have good organic tomatoes and herbs, I figure the sauce will be tastier than surrounding pizza places(bar the fancier places).
If I outsource dough to a baker, I have a feeling they'd know more about bread making than me. same with cheese.
And oven is one thing I'm debating as well. Conveyor or one of those brick oven. Pros and cons of each I need to weigh.
>>7786050
>grow my own produce
>expensive to me
It's only expensive in the sense I could sell it for more than what I'm making off pizza.
How narrow is the non-meat market when 50% of this autistic board probably only orders cheese pizza with sprite.
>>7786062
instead of a restaurant why don't you try selling your pizzas at a farmer's market along with your produce?
How much do you/environmental engineers make a year? And what do you do exactly - just make sure shit isn't going to seep into nearby waterways on construction sites?
>>7786080
I actually like this idea a lot. I could for sure do this.
>>7786090
Mid level I'd say ~70-90k depending on firm/ what you do.
Yeah they're a lot of different career paths for a EnvE.
You can go into consulting (making sure clients stay within the boundaries of environmental law),
Permitting (being the guys that check contaminant levels), water and wastewater quality (actually design the plants that treat water), site remediation, can work with landfill design, same with smokestacks. Pretty broad.
>>7785432
>flower
you have no business at all getting involved in restaurant. you'll bankrupt yourself.
>>7785316
Hey OP I don't have any tips for you but I want to let you know that I'm really proud of your idea and I truly hope it works out great for you. I wish you the best.
>>7785316
>>7785454
>I'm trying to ween people off greasy, unhealthy,unsustainable food
>I'm trying to ween people off greasy, unhealthy,unsustainable food
>I'm trying to ween people off greasy, unhealthy,unsustainable food
By selling them oily cheese starch? Refined grains and dairy are shit tier nutrition.
Like all moralists, OP is a retard full of resentment.
>>7786040
As a fellow Atlanta, I could actually see some aspects of this plan panning out here, especially in the more hipster infested areas like the east atl village.
>>7786814
I understand that, but believe it or not there is such a thing as moderation and substitutes. One anon already gave me a crust sub, there are cheese subs available, and I'd like to have gluten free options too for added variety.
Tomato sauce isn't inherently unhealthy, nor the toppings, so I'll focus on creating pizza that's not drenched in garlic butter and grease.
>>7785316
1. Develop a business plan
2. Secure financing
Where are you doing this? What's your potential competition? Why would the local spend $$ on an "organic" pizza rather than throw ten bucks at some corporate pizza?
A friend who ran a restaurant imparted this wisdom: the best way to make a small fortune in the restaurant business is to start with a large fortune.
HEY MAN ARE YOU PASSIONATE ABOUT SUSTAINABLE EATING? LIKE TRY OUR ORGANIC FREE RANGE SHADE GROWN ECO FRIENDLY PIZZA. IT'S AWESOME. $37.50 for 10"... wait.. .don't go... come back...
>>7786887
>doesn't even read the fucking thread
it's $10 for a pizza
>>7786887
Read the thread. The advantage I'd have is that I'd be growing my own (can't call organic since no soil I think, but definitely pesticide and gmo free) veggies and herbs.
I'd have every right to sell at stupid prices, but again, I'd rather compete with the corporate pizza.
1.) For a business plan, are professionals usually called upon to help draft. I'm looking at examples and though it seems doable, it seems a lot more suited to a business major.
2.) Definitely, however, I don't think potential financiers would like hearing we're not trying to get rich, or that we'd lower our price point to a different market.
Also, I'd be planning on minimizing investors and loans. Me and a friend will probably go into this venture in a couple of years with some saved cash from jobs relating to our majors.
An anon mention selling first at farmers markets, any other novelty ideas? maybe pop up stands or a food truck of sorts (Not keen on food truck idea at all).
Start off with farming, if you have the funds for the aquaponics and the greenhouse, start there, sell your produce at a local farmers market, then start slowly introducing your pizzas. All the while saving up as much money as possible for the brick and mortar to come.
As you're trying to corner the BernieBot hippie market, start visiting food co-ops, organic stores, and farmers markets now to see if you can even use some of their produce, and focus on making the pizza yourself. If someone already has some shitty hippie compound with complete infrastructure and can provide for your venture, focus on the dough / cheese end and start running the numbers on what exactly you need.
When interacting with vendors, do not act as someone trying to buy their product, go in as someone who is trying to find a long term business partner.
Also the physical space you need to run a pizza shop is very small, so ideally a hole in the wall near a heavy ethnic area would do the best.
>>7786916
Thanks for the advice.
I think it'll be a must getting a foot into the food community. I know it'll work with finding a cheese guy, but I'd probably have to shop around bakeries for a dough guy.
I want a big draw to be that we grow all our own toppings, however, do you think it'd be worth it to outsource things like onions and possibly certain peppers, seeing as onions don't grow well without soil.
What are essential toppings?
My thoughts are spinach, mushrooms, cheese, peppers, onions.
I'd like to bring things like chard, kale, and eggplant into the mix.
>>7785316
>organic pizza
You and your buddy ought to exchange kisses then slit your wrists.
>>7786942
Get this, we won't be selling soda either. Fuck your corporations kid.
>>7786960
it's goddam pop. dipshit
>>7786969
nah it's just diluted corn syrup for disgusting fatties
>>7786942
The real 'go
>>7786985
You seriously are a homer sexual. Wow.
>>7787000
ya got some zeroes' action going on there bud
>>7787005
All of us gave up caring about that when we left /b/
1. Location, location, location
This is the factor that will make your business thrive.
Do market research, ask people what they want to eat and when (sample people in an area during the week and also the week-end) rest is basic maths.
It also has to do with costs. (rent, how and where you grow your stuff, etc)
2. Establish a target market.
Since you know how many and what type of people are going to buy the sort of stuff you propose, aim everything in your business to fit their need.
(more delivery oriented ? seated romantic floor ? pub like ambiance ?)
3. Build an image and stick to it.
The reason why business make money is because people come back to the same place.
Based on your market research you're supposed to know what people want ! (choose your own toppings ? fast food style ? healthy ?) choose one horse and stick to it.
4. Choosing a horse is good but do not forget to innovate and create, once again, ask for feed-back.
5. Get involved
Community (local fat camps, cooking schools,etc) local events, neighborhood celebrations, free samples of new pizzas, facebook, yelp, fucking anything...
Get your name out there, word of mouth is a excellent tool. And a positive image goes a long way.
Your 'Za must be 'Go, or else /ck/ with not 'ay
>>7787062
>4. Choosing a horse is good but do not forget
>pick a winner?
>>7785390
how much are your permits gonna cost?
are your local health inspectors knowledgeable about hydroponics?
how long do think you can keep your ingredients fresh?
>>7787105
Sorry i tried to help the man.
Thank you for your input and you are now free to contribute in other threads.
>>7785316
>organic pizza
>>7787115
Permits for aquaculture and commercial farming is what i'd need for selling produce I believe. Maybe one for my greenhouse. Aquaponics isn't too well known about right now.
>>7787130
I'd like to can my sauce in order to maximize my tomatoes.
>>7787062
Yeah location will be big factor, especially since I want to start out in a couple of years. I may relocate based off this. Thanks for advise.
>>7785424
>No meat
Dropped, at least offer grass fed antibiotic free meat toppings, if the base pizza is $10 I could handle $4 meat toppings.
>>7787163
If I were to find a good local farm I'd definitely be ok with that. I'm not vegan or vegetarian myself.
>>7787155
Tomatoes are only one of your ingredients.
Does Atlanta allow food trucks?
you could make a fortune selling slices instead of whole pies
>>7787168
I spend $20 rn on a quality 2 topping 14 inch. I'm sure there's a cruelty free organic farm close enough to you and the meat will greatly boost your customer base.
>>7787097
If you do your basic, it's always a wining horse.
I know because i studied economy in the bests schools other than tremendous success it gave me an aim, objectives, not to go into details but well...
number one, I’d create economic zones. I’d create incentives for companies to move in. I’d work on spirit because the spirit is so low, it’s incredible, the unemployment, you look at unemployment for black youth in this country, African American youth, is 58-59%. It’s unthinkable. Unemployment for African Americans (not youth, but African Americans is very high). And I would create in the inner cities, which is what I really do best, that’s why when I open a building and I show you it’s way ahead of schedule, under budget and everything else (I think it was the Rite Aid store, the store in Baltimore it took them 20 years to get it built, one store, and then it burned down in one night) we have to create incentives for people to love what they are doing, and to make money. And to create, you know, to really create a better life for themselves.
